1985 Eldorado auto rear-view mirror broke off, mount to roof frame?

[Elderado]

Hi guys,
I figure someone on this forum might have dealt with this issue: I hit a pothole and my rear-view mirror broke off the windshield. Happened before a couple years ago and I reglued it with the standard auto parts store adhesive. But this time the metal mounting button or whatever took a similar-sized shard of glass with it when it broke off. The bond held. Only repair is replacement. Made me realize the auto-dimming mirror is very heavy and will likely break off again. I'd like to mount the mirror to the roof/upper windshield frame directly like a 1960s Mustang and skip the windshield mount altogether and get it over with forever.

Complicating factor: I have an ASC convertible, so the mounting possibilities probably aren't as good. Only thing up there is visor holder, held with a single #2 Phillips screw that's about an inch long. Doesn't feel like it can take a lot of weight. Anyone dealt with this before and have any advice? Is there a rear-view mirror mount from another Caddy that attaches to the roof that might fit well and work with the standard 85 auto dim mirror? Anyone know what's up in that upper frame and can it handle the weight of the mirror? See attached picture to see the visor holder. By the way, I have since reglued the mirror mount again, three inches to the right of the original location. Glass shop is hunting for a replacement windshield now.

Thanks a lot!
Scott

IMG_5761 by scottcelder, on Flickr

[76eldo]

I guess you could get a standard mirror and try to glue a new mount under the chip out or try to use the stone and epoxy it back into the windshield with the chip attached.

I've owned a bunch of 79-85 Eldoa and Sevilles and never encountered one of those mirrors.

[Elderado]

Thanks Brian. Huh. I thought the auto-dimming mirror was a standard option. I think made by a company called Gentex. My grandfather's Cadillacs of that era had them and my friend with a super stock 85 Biarritz has the same exact mirror. Scroll down to Competitive Availability here: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/history-originality/539018-auto-dimming-mirror-thread.html

What kind of mirror did your 79-85s have? Was it windshield mounted?

[76eldo]

All of my cars of that vintage just had a plain windshield mounted mirror with no electronics or wires going to them.

[STS05lg]

Scott, sorry for your problem. Brian is the resident expert on these cars and like him I have never seen on with an auto dimming mirror. However, I love your West Virginia auto repair.    Coat Hangers and Duck Tape indispensable when repairing antique cars.
if your are attending the Potomac Region meeting Saturday maybe some of the attendees would have a suggestion. Best, Lynn

[Elderado]

Well, the family is from PA, so it's more of a Pennsyltucky repair... I've heard tell of this Potomac Region chapter. I'm going to a wedding so can't. I'll check an event out some day.

Re-glued mirror seems to be working okay, attached 3" to the right of center. For now.

Checked my 1985 Cadillac brochure with all the models and options. For Eldo it says in Available Features: "New Automatic Day/Night Inside Rearview Mirror: Automatically adjusts the rearview mirror to the non-glare mode." That's it.

I'd just cut the wires and replace it with something lighter. The mirror isn't super useful. But since it's one of the features I remember from grandpa's Cadillacs, gotta try to keep it.

[bcroe]

I found the rear view was much cut off by the roof, so I did a
couple mods.  First was get the rear leveling up quite a bit. 
Then I remounted the mirror a couple inches lower on the
glass, to see better under the roof.  You could do that, maybe
just use a standard mirror, which has never damaged glass
for me.  Bruce Roe

[79 Eldorado]

I had an older looking version of that mirror (control wise) in my 1984 Toronado. It wasn't working and so I decided to take it apart. When I opened it the "Gentex" label fell out. I was able to get a replacement from Gentex which looks like the one you are showing. That was somewhere around 1993 to 1996. The original one had a photo-resistor which was bad but at the time I couldn't find a replacement for the photo resistor only.

I love those mirrors. Some of the car magazines were advertising them for a while but they were really pretty expensive as I recall.

One other thing at least my 1979 Toronado has the mirror attached to the "puck" on the window like some others described.

Scott

[TJ Hopland]

Seems like I did own something from GM with that style mirror that had a larger than the usual mount.  Early 90's Roadmaster maybe?   It was several years ago so the details are a little fuzzy but I remember it having the same size part that fit on the mirror but the glass end was larger.  There was a plastic trim bit that went on after you glued the thing to the glass that covered the extra size and also the wire I think. 

My 'new' 90 has that style mirror too,  I will try and remember to look at how its mounted when I go out in search of food soon. 

[79 Eldorado]

On my Toronado there wasn't anything special covering the wiring that I can recall. The mirror puck placed it pretty close to the front edge of the headliner trim and the wire simply followed the mounting arm. As I recall it was set-up with pretty simple wiring other than something was tied into the reverse light circuit so when you shift into reverse the mirror acts like a normal mirror; 99.9% certain that was the case. I've seen a version of that wire cover which I believe TJ referred to. It seems like it was basically like a hollowed-out plastic capital letter "I" that the wires could be hidden under. I guess it dressed things up a bit. Those mirrors would be a great find if anyone was near a junkyard. I would certainly love to have a few to install in my 80's vehicles and even even my Sonoma if I could find a version with map lights.

I still have that replacement mirror from Gentex someplace I think. I believe I had to send the original into Gentex to get the replacement. I'm kicking myself now for forgetting where I put it. As I recall though I wanted it for my 1979 and so I removed it before I donated the 1984 Toronado.

Scott

[TJ Hopland]

I looked last night and my 90 Deville has that mirror, regular looking mount, and the wire runs along the arm to the glass then up against the glass through a hole in the inner trim. 

It could have been a mid 90's subruban that maybe had the larger mount.  Maybe it was larger on that because of the possible 'offroad' vibrations?  I'm trying to remember if my current burb, a 98 has that mirror.  I guess an excuse to drive that to the store and look later today.   IF the trucks had them they should be easy to come by only issue would be if the curve of the glass maybe isn't the same.  With the larger mounting surface that may make a difference.  I'm assuming it was only an option with the higher optioned trucks.

[Elderado]

Hey guys, thanks for your helpful notes. Been under water with work but will reply soon. Quick updates: I did a thorough mounting job (taped off the spot and lightly sanded as prep, reglued with kit from AutoZone, I think) and the jerk broke off yet again and took yet another bite out of the windshield. Current planned medium-term temporary fix is this suction mount (just arrived in the mail) with a small steel crossbar and drilled-in original mounting button. Still thinking through the details of how I'm gonna tackle it.

https://www.rammount.com/part/RAP-224-1U

[Elderado]

...and. My working long-term idea is to take a flat 3mm aluminum plate, cut it like this (see crappy graphic): Screw into visor clip area at the +; bend aluminum at the =, drill/screw puck/button in at X. Need to do research into what that over-windshield roof area can handle. Fischer manual doesn't help. Kind of doubt the existing screw for the visor clip (pictured above) could handle the weight alone.

  â€"â€"â€"
  |  +  |
  |      |
  \  =  /
   \    /
    |X|
     â€"

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Isn't the windshield getting replaced? I would simply have the windshield shop install the mirror as per original. Reinstalling rearview mirrors is a regular part of windshield replacement for which nobody is better qualified.

If windshield mounting was good enough when the car was new, there's no reason it shouldn't be good enough now. A cobbled up roof rail mount job is going to stick out like a sore thumb.

[Elderado]

Fair point, Eric. The adhesive to glass mount did indeed last for years. But now that I live in a part of the city with bad potholes, this has happened three times in three months. Don't remember if I mentioned it, but the SafeLight guy who came to look at it for my insurance said he had an early 80s Eldo in DC that had the same mirror and the same bit-glass problem. His solution was to cut the wire and live without a rearview mirror. I think the mirror is simply too heavy for a direct to glass mount, at least in a city with big potholes and bad roads.

The recommended glass and body shop flaked on their search for the windshield. I haven't called them back because I really don't think a direct-to-glass mount can support this heavy mirror. At least in a city. Given that the adhesive held well enough to rip the glass off, I don't think stronger/better adhesive would help. Long term, I intend to replace the glass. GEICO will cover it with a $250 deductible.

That's a very rough sketch of what I have in mind. I got an A in shop class and I think I could make it look good.

[V63]

The dimming mirror was pretty cool, Lincoln also offered them. I wonder if your windshield has been replaced with foreign knockoff? I had that mirror on an 84 H&E convertible and it never came off?

I do have one of those dimming mirrors in inventory and a white convertible top boot for a 1985 eldo Biarritz convertible available.

[79 Eldorado]

That mirror was not that heavy from what I recall and my 1984 Toronado came with the option but with puck on glass. I've heard people say you really need to "adhere" to the directions on replacement pucks to get them to stay

Around WNY our roads are complete crap after each winter; municipalities using more and more salt every year. In 2016 I could still see signs of salt on the shoulders and in the potholes as late as July; relatively dry spring also contributed. People have gotten accustom to driving like they're on summer roads all of the time so the roads get hammered with salt. There were many many cars from the factory with the puck on glass solution and so I would say 50% of the cars around this area would be without rear view mirrors if potholes and puck on glass was that bad of a combination.

I also want to take a look at my 79 Eldorado. I think that too is puck on glass. It did not come with the dimming mirror but it made me wonder what year the Eldorado moved to the rod from the roof which you are having an issue with. Cadillac didn't do that just for these mirrors did they? The 84 Toronado mirror was bulkier than the version you show but even the bulky one was not that heavy; just a bit more chunky looking. I put the original back in before I donated the car.

Scott

[Elderado]

Hey guys, here's the glass markings. Thought that was original: IMG_5754 by scottcelder, on Flickr

[Elderado]

I did some research into when Cadillac started doing direct-to-glass mounts. I think it was 1971-73, but I'd need to check. Before then, mirror mounted to roof. I didn't realize they ever went back to roof-mount after. I thought Cadillac used direct-to-glass mounts from the early 70s till at least the 2000s.

I might seem crazy, but this mirror is quite heavy. Compared to this mirror, all the others I've had weighed hardly anything. Given that the previous adhesion was strong enough to rip the glass off twice, I don't see why better/stronger adhesion would improve things, since the glass itself was the failure point.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

I'm familiar with the early Auto Dimming mirrors which are indeed
somewhat heavy due to the motorized parts used in mirrors that dim
by mechanical means.

But also keep in mind, the action of simply adjusting the mirror imposes
much more force on the point of attachment than the weight of the mirror itself
- even if the mirror was the (lighter) conventional type. The attachment must
therefore must be sufficiently strong to withstand this action in the first place.

The markings you have shown indicate the windshield had been replaced at
some point. As I say, a good glass shop should have the materials needed to
for making a secure attachment of the button to the glass. I think the situation
of the glass separation in your case was a very rare fluke. I've dealt with a lot of fallen
rearview mirrors over the years and I've never seen that before.