vapor lock

[Dan LeBlanc]

I remember having a 63 Impala.  That used a vented cap.  The gas gauge never read right and when full would never go above a half tank.

At some point, the vent plugged and the walls of the tank got sucked in - found this out when I went to change the sending unit.  A little compressed air, plugged filler neck, and pop - the sides of the tank returned to normal.  The original sending unit was binding on the sides of the tank.  Ended up changing the float on the original sending unit as the new one didn't fit and the gas gauge was perfect.

Ventilation, ventilation, ventilation.

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Laurie,
The "sock" is a metalic filter that slides on the end of the fuel pick-up tube in the tank.  Blowing back through the fuel line is a sure way to clear any debris that may have the sock plugged.  It does that by simply blowing the sock off the end of the pick-up and you are left with no filter in the tank to screen out the debris.
The symptoms you described have nothing to do with the fuel pick-up filter. TANK VENT, TANK VENT, TANK VENT.
Greg Surfas

Greg, I'm thinking I should have the tank vent checked? 
You rock, thank you.

Too bad my mech blew me off AGAIN, and a show on Saturday.
I'm trying so hard to get The Ark perfect, and no one else cares around here (at home).
Reached out to other people, they won't even return a text...
I need another mech, now.

\m/
Laurie

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Laurie,
There is one thing you can try before you dial the suicide hot line.  When you put the cap on don't tighten it up just turn it to "the first notch",  That is what I do to get enough air into my tank during quarter mile runs when I only want to have a few gallons in the tank.  So far no complaints of gas pouring out the back.
Greg Surfas

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Laurie,

Look at the pictures I posted.   It shows the vent and where it is.

Bruce.

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

Just go drive it the same way you did when the problem happened. Then go take the cap off. If you hear a hiss, etc then you know the vent is clogged. Obviously don't get your face there when you open it because something could splash out.
Jeff

[Glen]

I'm with Greg...
TANK VENT, TANK VENT, TANK VENT, TANK VENT, TANK VENT, TANK VENT
Symptoms confirm it.   

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

I agree with Glenn and Greg:  TANK VENT -- TANK VENT -- TANK VENT

Mike

[Scot Minesinger]

Laurie,

That is what happened to me, no one any good or honest to work on my 1970 Cadillacs.  Over the course of a decade, I am now my own best mechanic.  To do this; read, read, read, read, read, and read some more of the factory shop manual.  Most mechanics do not like to read, so the results are often poor.  The cost of tools if you do not have them for a single repair is often less than a trip to the mechanic for an oil change.

Food for thought in the future.  Checking and unclogging a gas tank vent is super easy job to start with.  Just remember if you get under a car, always use a heavy set of jack stands, do not rely on jack to keep car elevated.  Bets to use a floor jack instead of factory bumper jack to raise car at proper jacking points on frame.

Owning a 1970 Cadillac, it seems impossible a tank vent is clogged but of course it could be, betting on sock in tank at pick up is the problem.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Another problem with these older cars, the rubber connections between the tank and fittings are alweays going to be hard and brittle.

I know that when I removed the vent from the '69, the joining tube was already cracked badly, and the tank was actually venting through the crack, as well as the pipe.

Notice on my picture, the broken hose?   Plus, to replace it, the tank HAS to be dropped.   Makers never thought of making this replacement easy.

Bruce.

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

This is nuts... I've texted Michael and Scot, relentlessly. Michael said put on a vented cap. I texted back let me bring the car to your shop, I don't care what you charge me, just get the issue fixed properly and install the new battery. No response. I've texted Scott, went to his shop today to get gas for the other car, he's back to work! No response to my texts. I've left voice messages with me in tears 'please get back to me'... nothing. I'm putting everything I've got into this car, I need help locally. Nothing. I'm distraught. With me, my business, I respond to texts immediately, even if its "I'll call you later, I'm busy now". I don't just ignore them. These guys know me, they know what the car means to me and I'm completely dependent on them for mechanical issues. They just don't care I guess. I can deal with the vapor issue temporarily by not using a gas cap driving it. I can deal with not have the new emergency brake cables installed since the brakes are good now. But the battery... We're in small 'judged' show on Saturday, I spent 5 hours Saturday cleaning the motor, 6 hours Sunday washing and detailing and I still have 2/3rds of a car to go for exterior polish/chrome and glass. I know the "68-70 stock class" winner will be a club member from the club hosting the event. But I just want to give The Ark every possible opportunity. Why can't these guys get back to me, my heart's broken and now its really depressing me. I had surgery last week, still working on the car, the surgical area hurts now but I have to get the car ready for Saturday. Making a last ditch effort tomorrow to get the battery installed with the guy who does my wheels, his shop does batteries too, maybe he'll help me. Please God...

Bruce I can crawl all the way under the car, I saw none of those vent tubes. Maybe its another fuel tank, I don't know.

Scot, I would LOVE to have the time to devote to working on the car myself. I have 2 weeks "off" now for the surgery, I'm back to work full time next week. I work 6-7 days sometimes, 10-14 hours a day. There's no time to learn how to work on the car. I own a house and live alone, I have to do 'everything' here. I'd pay these guys whatever they wanted to do what needs to be done. They won't even return a text. What am I supposed to do...

In 'happy' news I got an email today from Heritage Museums inviting me, well The Ark, to their big annual fundraiser "Cocktails With Cars". Very chi-chi, pinky in the air while you drink champagne from your flute type event. I was honored! Then I open the registration link - $250 registration fee! I hope they have a great turn out with out us.

Thanks for letting me vent (see what I did there?) guys. This car has brought me so much pleasure, right now the people I need so desperately around here are giving me so much pain and angst. And I just don't understand it.

And I REALLY appreciate all of you and your wisdom and taking the time to reply, God Bless.

\m/
Laurie

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Heck, I would come right over, but it would take me two days to get there, then another two days to get back home, oh, and there is the matter of airplane tickets, and business class is not cheap.   Cattle class is too restrictive for me now.

Can you get under there again, and take a photo for us?   Could it be that someone has simply removed the vent tube and plugged the hose up?

Bruce.

PS.   Sorry I missed seeing you last June.

[Scot Minesinger]

Laurie,

Same, live alone work long hours running my own small business.  It is difficult to make the time for these Cadillacs. 

Maybe a mirror and camera can get us a picture of the rear of the tank so you do not have to get underneath it with recent surgery and all.

It is difficult to make money as a business working on these classics.  I used to fix cars for friends and they paid me.  Sometimes there were hours devoted to figuring it out that were not billable.  I'm fine on climate controls and other jobs that I have done repeatedly (and even those can throw you -read some past posts) - but find a leak on a vacuum door lock systems from 1968 or earlier - no way - a total time drain with no compensation.  When a shop replaces a wheel bearing on a Suburban, they buy the part for $125, charge $300 plus four hours labor (and it takes 2 hours), so total bill $700, which is a shop profit of almost $500 on a $700 job ($250/hr profit), while a battery replacement is not going to earn the shop that kind of profit.  The tank vent - cost of hose is $2, plus 1/2 hour time - again low profit.  After the summer on the Cape, the mechanics may be more interested in working on the Ark.

[35-709]

Laurie, assuming your problem is the vent (as most of us think it is), buy another cap (so you don't alter your original) and drill an 1/8" hole through it more or less in the center.  Or, drill your old cap and replace it with the new when your problem is fixed.  That should get you going.

[35-709]

"I know the "68-70 stock class" winner will be a club member from the club hosting the event."

Sh--can the defeatist attitude, get your tushy to that show and give it your best shot!   

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Laurie,
just drive with your cap loose.  I don't recall if anyone has sent you a picture of your fuel tank, but this is from the Parts book.  The vent is at the top, front (towards the front of the car) of the tank with an extension.  I was able to physically get to the one on my '66 while the car was on the ground, and perhaps you can too. With the cap off the tank, you SHOULD be able to gently blow through the vent.
Greg Surfas

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Sorry for the inverted shot.  If you can't find someone to check the vent or you can't get to it yourself, just take a ride down here. I have included a map. Dress warm, the temperature is only going to get to 102 today with a heat index of about 110.
Greg Surfas

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

My picture shows it perfectly.

Bruce.

[chrisntam]

Stop in Memphis for a little Corkey's BBQ.

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Awww, I always wanted big brothers, now I have them, you guys rock!

Bruce your pictures show 2-3 hoses, Greg's diagram shows 1... now what.

Greg I verted your diagram, thank you. The car is going in the shop tomorrow (Praise God, with Him everything
is possible!) for the new battery install. My wheels guy Ryan at Cape Tire Service also does batteries. I gave him all the gory/in depth details of what needed to be done, he said Monday morning. Told him I had a show Saturday, he said tomorrow morning.  YES! If I can get The Ark up on a lift, and remove that vent tube, is it just a question of removal and hitting it with compressed air then replace? Or is it a replacement? If replacement can I jury rig it with fuel line/general rubber hose? Is gas going to pour out at a half a tank? The shop isn't 'licensed' to do work that will entail spilled fuel.

Scot when I do in depth estimates they can take 5-8 hours, I don't get paid for that time, I understand. And it really sucks when the client doesn't approve the job, that's $500+ in time gone and I can't deduct it.

Geoff consider my size 2 tushy engaged! 17 hours of detailing (6 more today in the hot sun after 2 doc appointments), including the motor, now I'll have the correct battery. The roof is a disaster, it needs to be painted, the interior is old but immaculate, I've done everything I can to make The Ark competitive, I've done my best with what I have. Let the chips fall! The Ark is nicest 1970 Fleetwood I own and I'm proud of him! I can put on my make up with my reflection in the paint and the chrome is like a mirror. And I've got all kinds of gloves and padding going to the shop tomorrow too.

You guys are the best... thank you.
\m/
Laurie

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Awww, I always wanted big brothers, now I have them, you guys rock!

We are here to help, no matter who you are, or where you come from.

Bruce your pictures show 2-3 hoses, Greg's diagram shows 1... now what.

The picture of the tank, the last one, shows the broken hose to the left, and the replacement hose on the hose fitting, and the vent pipe is simply laying on the top of the tank.

The small hose laying to the right, and the small piece above it is the hose that was attached to the small tube that I had to weld back onto the upper part of the vent pipe as it had broken off.

The bulge in the top right hand corner of the first picture is the centre back of the diff.

If I can get The Ark up on a lift, and remove that vent tube, is it just a question of removal and hitting it with compressed air then replace? Or is it a replacement?

This tube can be blown out as it is steel, and replacements would have to be either made up, or taken from another car.   These would have never have been serviced as a replacement part, as they simply aren't a wearing out part.

can I jury rig it with fuel line/general rubber hose? Is gas going to pour out at a half a tank? 

You have to use a replacement hose designed for fuel, that being neoprene.   There is no pressure involved, but most fuel hoses are at least a single reinforcement hose.

As for spilling, unless the tank is full, nothing will spill out when the hose is removed, but, as can be seen by the shape of the hose attaching area, if you cannot get a hand and tool up in there to access the removal of the hose, then the tank has to be dropped, at least part way.

The shop isn't 'licensed' to do work that will entail spilled fuel.

Boy, what in the world is happening in USA when everything has to be licensed.   No wonder nothing gets done.

Hang in there.

Bruce.