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WTB: 49 Starter

Started by Joe V, October 20, 2018, 10:39:08 PM

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Joe V

If you have one to sell please send picture, price including  shipping to ZIP Code 32311 and preferred method of payment. To email joev3261@comcast.net .

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Joe,
Are you looking for a good core to rebuild or a ready to install one?
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

Joe V

#2
Either but a Good core with a good solenoid and attached relay is AOK. I have a rebuilt 6v starter (probably not 49) without original relay, just replacement solenoid. I run it with an after market relay and I'd like to get it off the fender well and back to original. Thanks Bob.

Brad Ipsen CLC #737

The 49 starter is an interesting piece of Cadillac engineering proving that the accountants were not in charge at the time.  It is basically the same as the flathead starter with a new nose piece to match the bell housing of the OHV engine.  This is a piece that does not usually fail so can be exchanged to the flathead starter.  The other difference to the flathead is the solenoid has a slightly different orientation.  The only reason for this is so the screws for the wires will line up with some gaps in the exhaust manifold so you can put a screw driver on these directly.  This is where the accountants would ask the engineers you did what??  You made all these changes just so the screws are a little easier to get too.  Within the solenoid itself the only part that is different is the body itself which is the most durable part of the solenoid.  All of the rest of the parts are interchangeable with flathead stuff.  So if you just have a core you can fix it without buying the really rare 49 solenoid.  After doing all of this in 49 for 1950 they eliminate the relay points in the solenoid all together and run a #8 wire all the way around the car because of all the current it takes to power this 6 volt solenoid.  And doing all of this knowing in a couple of years you were going to 12 volt which would then allow a reasonable sized wire to run the solenoid. They could have just kept the 49 starter for a couple of more years and skipped all this heavy wire in the car. 
Brad Ipsen
1940 Cadillac 60S
1938 Cadillac 9039
1940 Cadillac 6267
1940 LaSalle 5227
1949 Cadillac 6237X
1940 Cadillac 60S Limo

Joe V

Quote from: Brad Ipsen CLC #737 on October 21, 2018, 10:43:46 PM
Within the solenoid itself the only part that is different is the body itself which is the most durable part of the solenoid.  All of the rest of the parts are interchangeable with Flathead stuff.  So if you just have a core you can fix it without buying the really rare 49 solenoid. 

If I am reading my master parts list correctly, the 49 starter is the only version with the solenoid attached relay.  I'm guessing that means that the Flathead starter did not need a relay or it was a separate but connected component.  If the later is correct, I'm already running a Flathead like setup.  If the former is correct, I can't get the power needed by the solenoid alone without a relay, or by running impractically low gauge wires in the ignition/transmission/solenoid circuit to handle the amps the solenoid needs to draw.  So I'm not sure I understand how I can do without the 49 solenoid with attached relay if I don't want a separate relay.  I'm sure I'm missing something here so any help to build my understanding is welcome and appreciated.

But I still need a 49 original starter with integral relay.

Caddy Wizard

I might have one.  If so, it is either at my residence or in long-term storage.  If it is at home, I can sell it.  If it is in the storage unit, it is essentially unavailable (not gonna drive an hour each way to look for it -- sorry).

If I remember, I'll try to look for it at home tonight...
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under cosmetic resto)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1949 S6107 Fastback Coupe -- soon to be back home with me...

Mike Simmons 938

Joe- Found  one that I never threw away after I sold my 49 some 30 years  ago. Had I known  they were such rarities, I would have taken better care of them. As it is, the starter motor was in one pile; the solenoid on a shelf.  I knew where the motor was, and had the amazing good fortune to find  the solenoid in the first place I checked. Maybe I should  buy a lottery ticket this  week.
Anyway, if you send an email addy to me at argonaut2002@comcast.net, I'll send some pix I just took.
They have 30 or more years of grunge, so feel free to hold your nose and reject them, but the price  will be right, and the shipping from the SF area will be the killer. Where is your zip code? I'm 94960.
Also, the piston or whatever that plunger-like thingy is called, is not with the solenoid, though otherwise it looks complete. The relevant numbers on the parts are: motor-1107945; solenoid- 1118141.
Mike Simmons ; CLC# 938
San Anselmo, CA

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Joe,
It looks like Mike has got you covered. I don't have one.
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

Joe V

Thanks, Art. Please let me know if you find one.

Thanks, Mike. Email sent.

Thanks for looking Bob.


Brad Ipsen CLC #737

If you need a plunger that again is not 49 unique.  It is the same as late flathead and maybe early as well.  To continue for others that may need a 49 starter here is a picture of 3 different solenoids.  All of the flatheads as well as the 49 have an integral relay so only a small current is going through the starter switch.  In 1950 the starter switch has this #8 wire with lots of current.  In the picture the left unit is the late flathead style, middle is the 49 which you can see is identical except for the angle of the mounting bracket and the right one is the early flathead style.  If you can live with hard access to the screws it works entirely satisfactory or if you have a bad 49 solenoid it most likely can be repaired with the late flathead parts. 
Brad Ipsen
1940 Cadillac 60S
1938 Cadillac 9039
1940 Cadillac 6267
1940 LaSalle 5227
1949 Cadillac 6237X
1940 Cadillac 60S Limo

Caddy Wizard

Quote from: Joe Vastola on October 22, 2018, 08:44:10 PM
Thanks, Art. Please let me know if you find one.



I looked overnight.  Mine must be in the storage unit -- it isn't downstairs at home with the things I have at home.  Sorry -- I can't help you at this time.


Art
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under cosmetic resto)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1949 S6107 Fastback Coupe -- soon to be back home with me...

Jay Friedman

Brad,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it from what you wrote and from what I've seen written elsewhere, a late flathead solenoid will work on a 49 starter with the exception that the 2 wires will not be visible or accessible through exhaust manifold.  Correct?
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

Brad Ipsen CLC #737

Correct, and just to repeat if you just have the body of the 49 solenoid you can repair it with the parts from a flathead solenoid.  And further if you just have the nose of the 49 starter you can put that on the flathead starter and use the whole thing.  So bottom line if you just have two very durable parts of the 49 starter, the nose piece and the case of the solenoid you are in business just by then finding a flathead starter.
Brad Ipsen
1940 Cadillac 60S
1938 Cadillac 9039
1940 Cadillac 6267
1940 LaSalle 5227
1949 Cadillac 6237X
1940 Cadillac 60S Limo

FabCad

I have four ‘49 starter cores in the San Francisco Bay Area if anyone wants them. Must pick them up, too heavy to ship.
1948 Sedanette
1949 Convertible
1950 Convertible
1957 Biarritz
1960 Convertible