Pre-war (up to 1942) 1939 Lasalle Emergency Flathead Overheating

[Bobby B]

I am wondering if the problem is one I read about on this forum somewhere in which the shaft is slipping on the impeller of the new water pump....  I've also seen the recommendation that the shaft and impeller be tack welded to avoid this.......

I think that was me, and that WAS one of the problems. One tack, all good. Once the block gets good and hot is when the cracks expand and water goes out the tailpipe while you're driving. It's hardly noticeable, and these cars WILL Run in this condition. I'm proof of that  . This is what you DON'T want...........                                             
                                                         Bobby
         

[39LaSalleDriver]

Good news! The latest test I have performed was to use a "block tester kit". The kind with a tube, bulb, and chemical. Warmed engine up to halfway and performed test for two and a half minutes....no color change. From the information I have read, this is a very reliable test that indicates I have NOT blown a head gasket. Combined with my other observations of no noted oil contamination, no bubbling in the upper tank, no white smoke, and no changes on my spark plugs, I am fairly confident that this is an accurate assessment and I couldn't be happier. I would guess that the cause of the coolant loss is from the overflow tube, and because I would shut it down before it hit a critical point, it wasn't being so obvious.

I am now back to two primary theories, a) The shaft on my new Kanter water pump is slipping on the impeller; or b) the radiator mysteriously plugged itself up overnight and wouldn't allow the engine to cool anymore. While I have no trouble believing that some of my core tubes have blockage and could use a good going over, I would think it more likely that the water pump is the issue. I'm going to send my original pump back to the Flying Dutchman and have them rebuild/repair it again (the reason it failed to begin with was all my fault, not their workmanship), pull the Kanter pump off, put my original back on and see what that gets me.

Will post an update when I get something sorted out in the next couple of weeks.

[Cadillac Jack 82]

If you're showing under 200 with it at the 3/4 mark (or by HOT) then you should be okay.  It could be that your gauge is bad.  I too got worried about my 37 when it inched close to the HOT line when driving at highway speeds (I usually keep it around 58-60mph).  If you don't have any symptoms of a cracked block, bad gasket, or clogged radiator it has to be something else.

[39LaSalleDriver]

If you're showing under 200 with it at the 3/4 mark (or by HOT) then you should be okay.  It could be that your gauge is bad.  I too got worried about my 37 when it inched close to the HOT line when driving at highway speeds (I usually keep it around 58-60mph).  If you don't have any symptoms of a cracked block, bad gasket, or clogged radiator it has to be something else.

That's pretty much where I'm at. I definitely get antsy when it gets up to the HOT mark and shut it down.  All weekend it would ride right at the 3/4 mark while doing 60-65 with 80 degree ambient temps...until my pump started acting up. While I wouldn't rely on my gauge for dead on accuracy,  it gives me no indication that it's inaccurate per se. Let's just say that if it reads HOT or right at it,  I'm pulling over.

As I mentioned I'm going to get my pump rebuilt again and take it from there.

[z3skybolt]

I don't know if the pump is your problem.....but no one does a nicer job than Flying Dutchman. Kanter....well??


Check that radiator and cap. Simple but problematic.

Bob

[Bobby B]

Check that radiator....

I've had 3 Radiators, and everyone's been clogged.....
                                                           Bobby

[39LaSalleDriver]

Latest Update:

It's the little things in life that will get you.

I'll admit, it was my fault that this whole problem began when I was a little heavy handed with greasing the water pump and blew the seal back about 3-4 months ago. But, because it hadn't shown any further signs of being a problem I let it go...Bad idea. I'm convinced that was the beginning of my problems on my road trip.

Next mistake, not having a spare water pump in the trunk ready to go in case something did happen. I got lucky and was able to get one from Kanter.

I am now convinced the third mistake was when I had the machinist remove my pulley from the old pump and put it on the new one, the woodruff key was in the wrong position, and that the groove on the shaft which holds it was machined a bit too deeply by Kanter (more like whomever makes them for Kanter).

I removed my Kanter pump today and found the woodruff key seated at an angle as shown in the attached illustration. Two additional things...I have found the groove on the impeller shaft is about 3/64ths of an inch deeper than the shaft on my Flying Dutchman pump. This would cause the woodruff key to sit deeper in that groove and not stick up as much to catch the pulley as it should have. In fact, upon seating the key on the Kanter shaft properly, it barely sticks up enough to be worthwhile in my opinion. Add that to sitting at an angle as it was, would make it very prone to slippage. In retrospect now (it wasn't on my mind when I took it all apart ) I'm not terribly certain but what the impeller shaft had slipped backwards a bit when putting the pulley on, and perhaps it wasn't tightened down the way it should have been. Now this could have happened at the time the pulley was mounted, or perhaps even after running down the road some 500 miles. Given the excellent performance for most of the day, I suspect the latter. Eventually with all that running, it started to slip worse and worse or alternatively or combined with, the impeller was pushed back enough that it couldn't keep up with circulating properly.

I doubt I will ever have the complete answer, but I am fairly certain I am on the right track with what went wrong. I think my plan now will be to send my old pump back to the Flying Dutchman (again) for rebuilding; put it back on the car and get the Kanter one straightened out to keep as a spare in the trunk.

[z3skybolt]

Just a comment for future consideration...

...After I installed my pump from the Dutchman I called and asked the owner about greasing his rebuilt pump.  He said "only once every 6,000 miles or so".  Unlike the old original pumps before rebuild from Dutchman. Mine has about 6000 miles on it so far.

Good luck,

Bob

[39LaSalleDriver]

Ahhhh....that could also explain a few things. When I got mine there were no instructions of any sort. So I greased it a bit and mounted it. Since I religiously follow the service schedule. ...yep, hit it again every 1,000 miles if not a bit sooner. Guess I won't be doing that anymore,  plus I've mounted a grease cup to restrain myself 

[harvey b]

If the key is still in the slot where it goes,there is no way it can slip,does it look to be chewed up around where the key is?,if the key is still in there,it cant slip as it is locked in place,does it feel loose on the shaft?.If everything is still intact i dont think a new waterpump will make a difference.Does your car still have the shutters on the rad?,if so i would wire them open and see if that helps,they could be closing,hard to see when driving.If it was my car i would try flushing out the block and radiator,i think that is your problem. Good Luck   Harveyb