REMOVING/DISCONNECTING RAG JOINT 65 DEVILLE

[johngmm7]

I am replacing the steering box and the most challenging item so far is getting at the rag joint either from above or below the car. Plus I can't really see/decide where to disconnect from the steering column. I think it should be disconnected from the column and removed still attached to the steering box. Hard to tell where the bolts are. Anyone else experienced this. It is also impossible to get a puller on to the Pitman arm as the exhaust is in the way so is there any problem in undoing the small end of the arm then bench removing it from the box. Any ideas or help would be appreciated as always. Many thanks, John

[Ralph Messina CLC 4937]

John,

I'm writing this from memory so it may not be 100% accurate. Disconnect hoses and drain the flluid  and cap off the openings in the steering box. This will avoid most, but not all spillage. The flexible coupling ("rag joint") on the upper portion of the steering shaft is clamped onto the steering shaft spline by one bolt.  It has a 12 point socket head and is about 7/16". Rotate the steering wheel so that the bolt head is easily accessible. This bolt may be corroded and hard to rotate. Using penetrating oil and caution not to strip it.
The pitman arm should be separated from the drag link, not the box. Use a two arm puller to grip the ledges on the pitman arm and the jack screw portion pushing the drag link pin (threaded bolt) out. The exhaust should not be in your way. I don't remember whether the wheels had to be supported or oriented to get the drag link in a particular position.
The steering box is bolted to the chassis rail by three bolts. It is in an awkward position and heavier than it looks. You'll like need a helper to start these bolts when reinstalling the box.
If you are rebuilding the box yourself, be certain the large snap ring on the front cover is correctly and firmly in place.....Don't ask how I know this.

Hope this helps

[savemy67]

Hello John,

The '67 shop manual states that the bolt clamping the rag joint to the steering gear stub shaft (the splined shaft coming out of the steering gearbox) should be removed, so that implies that the rag joint stays with the column, not the gearbox.   I think '65 is essentially the same.

The stub shaft has external splines.  The rag joint has internal splines.  When the three bolts holding the gearbox to the frame are removed, be sure to support the weight of the gearbox, and slide it forward and down in the same plane as the angle of the column, so that the internal and external splines disengage.  This process will need to be reversed upon re-assembly.  Note the presence of any shims between the gearbox mounting points and the frame, and re-install them from whence they came.  If you are doing the gearbox replacement yourself, your arms will need the strength of Popeye.  Otherwise, I suggest a helper.

Before separating the gearbox from the rag joint and removing the gearbox, I suggest you align your steering wheel and the wheels to the straight-ahead position.  You may also want to match-mark the rag joint and stub shaft.

The shop manual advises that the Pitman arm be disconnected at the small end - from the drag link.  In '67, there were two small tabs on the small end of the Pitman arm.  This is where a puller should be located.  The Pitman arm can be disconnected from the gearbox on the bench, but the nut is torqued to over 100 ft. lb., so you will need a helper, or a very sturdy holding fixture (a BIG helper).

Whether you bought a rebuilt box from a reputable firm (Lares), or someplace else, you may want to consider checking the two adjustments needed to make the gearbox work smoothly.  The procedure should be spelled out in the '65 shop manual.  To do the adjustments, I had to buy a low-scale, beam-type, in. lb. torque wrench.

I rebuilt both my steering pump and gearbox.  You can read about it here:

http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=133691.80

Scroll down to reply 82 for the gearbox rebuild post.

Good luck with your project.

Respectfully submitted,

Christopher Winter

[johngmm7]

I have gotten myself in to a real barrel of snakes now as I've taken the completely wrong approach to this job. As I stated earlier, there is no room for using a typical puller on the Pitman arm due to the exhaust pipe below. I therefore decided to remove the arm from the small end but this is proving very difficult. In the process, I have removed the three bolts holding the gearbox to the frame having previously removed the 12 point holding bolt to the rag coupling. Removing the holding bolts of the steering box was a major mistake I now realise with no way back as it is now completely out of alignment. I have a replacement rebuilt steering box and rag joint; didn't fancy the idea of rebuilding the existing box. I have considered purchasing a new Pitman arm and small end connection but have had no success in finding one with the connector attached. I considered hacksawing the arm just to remove the box.  There are a couple on ebay at $75 each without the small end connector so that's a no-go.  I guess I will carry on attempting to remove the Pitman from the box shaft by what methods I have no idea at the moment. Will also continue to attempt to disconnect the small end. Right now, I am feeling a complete incompetent idiot. Onward and downward.............thanks for your input.  John

[Ralph Messina CLC 4937]

John,

It's difficult to diagnose what's wrong without seeing the current situation.
First, if the box is hanging on the steering shaft at the rag joint, prop it up to take the load off the shaft.
Second, the Pitman / drag link joint is accessed from below where the exhaust manifold should not be an obstruction. If you haven't already, remove the nut at the Pitman /drag link joint. You need a two jaw puller that will grab the two ledges on the Pitman from below, then use the jack screw on the puller to separate the joint. Be certain to support the steering box when doing this.

[Big Fins]

No need to feel like an incompetent idiot, sir. We all have learned as we go on these old cars. Anyone that didn't, was either lying or was trained in the job at hand and had the required specialty tools. Look at some of the restoration jobs on this board. I'd be willing to bet that more than a few of them were in your position at one point or another. Persevere. You'll get it.

[Ralph Messina CLC 4937]

Big Fins,

Amen to that, and to too many people for me to name.

[johngmm7]

Hi, The comments about my feelings are very well received and have inspired me to keep at it.  Thsnks.

[johngmm7]

Here is my latest on progress.  After spending another afternoon of frustration and cursing, I decided the only way for me was to find a replacement arm then hacksaw and grind this one away. Seems a shame to have to destroy such a hard to find part but, as the saying goes, any port in a storm.  I found a decent one from a place in NJ which I have ordered. Hopefully, all will be plain sailing from hereon. Thanks to you all, John

[bcroe]

My own approach might be unbolt the column, never have messed
with the steering box.  But I never had a 60.  Pulling that arm is
quite a challenge.  Bruce Roe

[johngmm7]

I have now finally removed the steering box and the pitman arm.  I modified the smallest puller I could find by grinding off a little to get it to fit the small end of the arm. So I have now centred (half the number of turns lock to lock) the splined shaft for inserting it to the rag joint.  After centering, I noticed a flat side on the shaft which is about 45* off top centre, so I guess I have to loosen the holding clamp of the rag joint fitting to the steering column in order and turn it to match to the flat area on the shaft. I don't want to interfere with the shaft setting and I'd prefer not to have to remove the steering wheel to get it all lined up.  Does this all sound right. 

[johngmm7]

A bit more about the saga of fitting the replacement steering box. I'm very pleased to report that I have successfully fitted the new box and I'm now having trouble reinstalling the small end of the pitman arm due to having somehow damaged the threads on the end of the drag link. It has been impossible to get any type of thread repairer to work on the threads as the connection rotates directly the sticking point on the damaged thread is reached. SO, I would like to replace the threaded connector if they're available rather than the complete drag link which are priced anywhere upwards of $150, so is this possible.  Can't see any way of doing this myself so it would mean removing the complete drag link or arm (not sure of the correct description) to have this done by a shop if I can find a new connection. Can anyone help me with this dilemma. I intend to try and identify where the thread is damaged and see if a needle file will do the trick but I'm not too optimistic.  I always seem to be asking for help rather than being able to give any to anyone - I hope this situation will reverse itself one day.  John

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Shouldn't be that hard to repair the thread.

A needle file would do, or a thread chaser.   I have one here, but you are too far away.

Bruce.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

This is the thread chaser I was referring to.

Actually, it is a thread file.

Bruce.