Looking for a special rivet

[Cadman-iac]

A long time ago I had come across a box of assorted rivets that until recently were not very useful to me.
However,  recently I have found a use or three for some of them. The problem I'm currently having is that I don't have the right length in stock.
For lack of a better description,  I call these a "hammer rivet". Because they have to be either pressed or hammered to expand the end. Most of these are made of aluminum,  but I have some brass ones and steel ones too.
I need them for a washer pump I'm trying to repair.

My question is this, where would I find some longer ones, and what is the correct name for them?
Here's a couple pictures of what I'm trying to find.

[GregoryAlan]

https://www.mcmaster.com/rivets

Scroll down to the 'Solid Rivet' section...
Everything you ever wanted but were too afraid to ask?

[Cadman-iac]

https://www.mcmaster.com/rivets

Scroll down to the 'Solid Rivet' section...
Everything you ever wanted but were too afraid to ask?

Thank you Gregory! I didn't know where to look for them,  but I didn't know what to call them either,  and that makes the search that much harder.
Thank you very much.
Rick

[MaR]

Those rivets are commonly used in aircraft applications.

[Cadman-iac]

That's good to know,  thank you. I'm looking through McMaster's site now. I'm needing ones with a reach of just over an inch,  but they're only showing ones just under an inch.
The original ones on this washer pump are made of copper, but I'll settle for aluminum or brass,  just as long as they will reach.
I'm trying to diagnose/duplicate a problem that another member is having with his pump, and it's not gonna be easy if I can't put the thing back together.
Thanks for your help.

Rick

[J. Gomez]

Rick,

Try these folks 

https://www.hansonrivet.com/

[Cadman-iac]

Thank you Jose, I sent them an email and hopefully I'll hear back from them in a few days.

Much appreciated,
Rick

[Jim Miller]

Found these in my great uncle’s tool chest. He was a machinist at Philco before, during, and after the war. The shaft on the short one is 5/8, the long one 3/4. The shaft is 1/8 inch in diameter. Magnet won’t pick up long one - must be aluminum. If you want to try a couple PM your address and I’ll mail a few.
Jim Miller

[Cadman-iac]

Jim, I really appreciate the offer,  but the ones I need are just over an inch long, 1.050 inches to be exact,  and the others are 1.250 inches long. Both being 1/8" in diameter.
That's a generous offer,  and I thank you for that. If they were longer,  I'd take you up on it. I also would need a  minimum of 5 short ones and 2 of the long ones. That's providing I don't mess any up installing them.

Thanks again,
Rick

[Jim Miller]

Unfortunately, those are the only two sizes I have in the real old stuff. Hope you can find some.

[Cadman-iac]

The rivets are for one of these washer pumps for a 55, 56 Cadillac. I would also like to know who would have parts for one, specifically the rubber diaphragms and  seals. Another member asked me if I might know why his is not working correctly,  so I'm trying to duplicate the problem in order to get an answer.
I've got a total of 5 of the pumps, 3 of them are this style. One wasn't working,  so I dissected it to see why. Now I need to reassemble it,  thus the rivets. If I don't find any, I can use some small screws and nuts as a last resort.
But anyway,  here's the picture of what I'm working on.
Rick

[wrench]

A little about solid rivets.

You need to select material and head and diameter and length.

Now you have said 1/8 diameter, and inch and a quarter overall length.

The head on the actual pump looks like a brazier head, the head on the rivet you found could be a round or universal head, but I can’t tell from the pic.

I cannot see what material you are working with.

So that is the last question for rivet ID. What material?

It looks like a potentially corrosive environment due to the presence of moisture and possible dissimilar metal so material selection would be of primary importance.

Secondary importance would be ‘workability’...

Steel rivets are a pain to work with as they require sufficient force to either damage the work or incomplete working thus leaving an ugly and insufficient grip.

Old school would be to take the old rivets and do some testing on identifying the material.

A magnet could be employed to see if it is ferrous.

Way back in the day we were taught how to identify the ferrous alloy with spark patterns on a grinder.

Speaking of alloy, should aluminum be identified, there  are several alloy rivets that could be employed depending on the physical characteristics desired.

I do t know enough about the piece in question to make any sort of judgment of what would work best.

Another tip, acquire the longer length and just cut it shorter for the shorter application rather than seek two different lengths...

If you could specify a material and a head, then you would have enough info to order up some rivets.

I might have some laying around if you can answer that question.

As for the rubber pieces, that would be yet another episode of ‘Adventures in Materials and Processes’

[Cadman-iac]

 I do know what the original ones are,  they're copper.  And the material that they go through are as follows and in this order from top to bottom:
Diecast pot metal, plastic, rubber, plastic, rubber, plastic, steel, and the last is either plastic or bakelite.

The original rivets have a 1/4" diameter slightly domed head on them. I'd like to stay with that style if possible.

This is the valving assembly for the washer pump. The bakelite is the pump body itself,  and it is actually on the inside of the jar/bottle.

I think that aluminum rivets will work in place of the copper ones if I can't find the copper.
I would go with either one,  but definitely not steel. That would crush the pump pieces.  I was thinking if I couldn't find either the copper or aluminum ones that were long enough,  that I could just use some small machine screws and nuts. I will probably do that anyway while I'm testing it.  Once it's working correctly, then I'd put in the rivets.

As for the rubber pieces, that would be yet another episode of ‘Adventures in Materials and Processes’

Yes, that's going to be a big hassle. I'm hoping that I can find the original ones from a  place that repairs/rebuilds/restores these. Right now I have no idea who that would be.
Does anyone happen to know who rebuilds these pumps?

[Roger Zimmermann]

McVey used to sell the kit with rubber parts and seals; I'm not sure, but rivets may be included. When I restored my '56 SdV, I used screws to attach the whole thing. It's not 100% "factory look" but when I did that 35 years ago, this was my last concern.
On those cars, the vacuum manifold is usually no more good. David King is selling the rubber seal (which is acting as valves); here too, bye bye rivets, welcome small screws!

[cadparts58]

 When I rebuilt the four port vacuum manifold on the firewall for the wipers, I got the solid rivets from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. They have 1/8 rivets up to 1 3/8 inch long. I believe they are in California. You can Google their name for their contact info.

[Cadman-iac]

Roger,  Frank, 

Thank you both for the information.  I'll check with both places for the rubber parts and the rivets. Although like you Roger,  I'm not concerned with it being judged, so the screws are a good option. I was going to do that initially to make sure that it was going to work first.  The last thing I want to have to do is remove the rivets after just putting them in because it wasn't working properly. The screws would allow that.
The more I think about it,  the  risks of damaging the plastic pieces by the installation of the rivets gives me pause to reconsider using them at all.
  I did notice that the original ones were not very straight. They were wavy from being pressed from both ends to flare the bottom to retain them.
As for the vacuum manifold,  I would be less concerned with the rivets causing damage during installation,  being its metal instead of plastic.

And again,  thank you both for the suggestions and information. This will be very helpful.

Rick

[J. Gomez]

Richard,

Are you sure you want to tackle this rebuilt, would BMX bicycling be less painful?   

Pressing those rivets in such a tight area and with all the plastic pieces in place plus the lid it is problematic if not done correctly. The plastic pieces would be the most critical part as they are old and brittle and getting the correct pressure on the rivets will be a challenge.

The pump is divided into two chambers one is vacuum and the second is for the fluid.

The vacuum side controls the supply of vacuum to the chamber on the lid to pull the plunger and held it in place. There is a small spring load valve at the pump (you can see it on your picture the bottom left piece) which closes the vacuum source when the plunger reach the top. If the vacuum is low and the plunger goes down (the large spring inside the chamber) the valve is open to allow more vacuum to fill the chamber.

The second part on the pump is for the vacuum to go out on the control line up to the wiper switch. When the switch is pressed the vacuum us release and the plunger goes down via the large spring tension to squirt the fluid. The reservoir only holds a small amount of fluid just enough for one cycle.

Releasing the switch repeats the cycle back again at the pump and reservoir.

The fluid side is a maze of chambers to build the pressure when the fluid is squirt and to hold some inside the pump for the next cycle.

I recall McVey had rebuilt services for these units but they may outsource them  . There is also the rebuildingtricowipers.com aka wipreman.com in NY.

The complete kits still available with all the pieces to rebuilt these including the rivets, you can check most of the Chevy sites for these.

Good luck..!

[timer2]

Rick, on mine there are 2 rivets that pass through the lid holding the distribution block . I used a #4 /40 tp screw to reattach it.(nut on the inside of the lid with a dab of silicone sealer on top of nut) Not authentic but I can remove the screws and repair it if it turns out that it doesn't work (like put in new gaskets etc.). You don't want to replace everything to find out you have to remove the rivets again. Mine is different from yours but probably has the same issues. Everything on mine now moves and operates under a hand held vacuum source but won't be tested for at least a month till the car comes out of the garage. T. Irvin

[Cadman-iac]

I just looked at McVey's site, and unless they just didn't put the kit on there, they don't have it. I sent them a message,  so maybe it's just not a big mover for them to list it on the site.

The Chevy sites are next on my hit list. Hopefully one of them will have the kit in stock. Thanks for the suggestion Jose. I should have thought of that,  especially since the paperwork I have on it is from a Chevy add on kit.

And like I mentioned a little earlier Terry, I'm leaning toward using machine screws and nuts to put it back together with.
It definitely would be easier to assemble, and if by chance something doesn't work,  then it'll be much easier to take it apart and fix.

Or I can take up BMX biking ! LOL!

This started when John Michaud had asked me about a problem he was having with his.  Since I hadn't had mine completely connected together when I first tested it,  I  figured that maybe I should try it that way, and in the process maybe I could find out what it was that was going wrong with his too. Initially I only checked the pump by itself when I was going through my parts and rebuilding what needed it, so I wasn't sure if it would work with the whole system connected.
Well, it didn't. My coordinator didn't work for starters, and then the pump would only work if I disconnected the hose going to the switch., and only if I disconnected it at the pump, not at the switch.
So in order to better understand how these things work,  I disassembled one.
Since I've got 3 that are the same as the one that is going in my car, I figured why not. I picked the one that was in the worst condition and not working anyway, so it wouldn't matter if I couldn't repair it, nothing lost then other than my time.
I should mention that the pump that did work with the hose to the switch disconnected is not the one I took apart.

Anyway,  I'll update as I proceed. Thanks to everyone for the helpful advice and suggestions. I do appreciate the assistance.

Rick

[59-in-pieces]

Rick,

I too like the chase of the OEM.

Similar story - I wanted to build my own exhaust hangers for my 59 Cad.
At the time there were hangers made outside the US but they used bolts and nuts - the OEM's affixed the old tire carcass strips to the metal part of the hanger by beefy rivets.

I looked high and low but no luck until I too found Aircraft Spruce and Specialty (airplane stuff in CA. where I live).
I went to their facility and found out just how OCD the counter man was when he insisted I had to know the clinching strength etc etc.
I showed him what I was going to be replacing (tire thickness and the steel and the old rivet) - but it was just too painful - and I left without a rivet even after telling him I was not building the space shuttle - he didn't care.
If you call these guys, I hope that guy is long gone.

Have fun,
Steve B.