1957 A/C compressor

[J. Wagnon]

My issue is that when the a/c switch is on and the clutch is engaged, things work and sound correctly. When the switch is off and the clutch is disengaged (front nut not spinning) there is a ticking sound coming from the compressor. It sounds like the old time toy clickers kids used to drive teachers and parents over the edge. At low idle it clicks about 4 times each 6 seconds. I have sent my a/c compressor for a full rebuild (I think it is an A5 which is using r12 refrigerant) to classic air in Florida literally 4 times and each time they send it back something different is wrong with it so I have lost all confidence in them. At this point parts on the entire system have been replaced and rebuilt by them. Can anyone offer a solution to the clicking noise or direct me to someone who can properly correct the clicking noise that 1957 year compressor? Thanks for any help you can offer. James

[J. Gomez]

My issue is that when the a/c switch is on and the clutch is engaged, things work and sound correctly. When the switch is off and the clutch is disengaged (front nut not spinning) there is a ticking sound coming from the compressor. It sounds like the old time toy clickers kids used to drive teachers and parents over the edge. At low idle it clicks about 4 times each 6 seconds. I have sent my a/c compressor for a full rebuild (I think it is an A5 which is using r12 refrigerant) to classic air in Florida literally 4 times and each time they send it back something different is wrong with it so I have lost all confidence in them. At this point parts on the entire system have been replaced and rebuilt by them. Can anyone offer a solution to the clicking noise or direct me to someone who can properly correct the clicking noise that 1957 year compressor? Thanks for any help you can offer. James

James,

A bit more troubleshooting info may be required to provide you with some solutions.   

You mention the ticking noise with the A/C compressor clutch disengage, is this happens all the time or only after the clutch is engaged for a while and then disengaged?

Have you try rotating the pulley by hand to see if there is any friction/rubbing noises?

If you know for sure the noise is coming from the compressor there are a few things that would need to be check out and verify. I would/should guess the rebuilder had checked these and replace them if they were bad.

The first thing would be the bearing although that should be the first thing to be replace.

Second would be the plastic balls between the clutch plates, these tend to go bad with age and heat and go off-round. These would rotate once the clutch is engage to hold the plates apart (held by the compressor coil) when the compressor is working and when the compressor is disengage they rotate back (spring pressure to force the plates to close) to the original position.

If any of them are off-round there would be a ticking/friction noise since the clutch plates are off-centric in that area.

Third there are shims place at the rear and front of the clutch plate hubs these are critical to properly gap the space between the clutch ring (rear) and the pulley (front) when the clutch is engage and disengage. Again not having the correct shims to set the gap would cause erratic clutch operation and may also cause a ticking/friction noises.     

If you have a service manual you can see these under the explode view in Fig. 13-9.   

Good luck..!

[fishnjim]

Until it's properly diagnosed, no one will be able to solve the problem.   
It's quite possible that the A/C running drowns out/overpowers an underlying engine noise that's not compressor related, so you have to rule out things step by step.  Or is caused when the belt goes off power draw and affects another part.
The problem with A/C is it refrigerants and it costly/time consuming to tear into often.   Mechanics usually go by a system chart to save time and if not related, may not cover what you are dealing with.   Intermittent problems are the worst to track down.   So you have to assess the risk of not fixing vs fixing.   It'll either get worse or go away with time.
Ticking is two parts contacting each other, while rubbing usually has another sound or squeal.

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

I think Jose is right on target. I might suggest taking a cell phone video of the compressor in operation with the noise and send it to Classic air and Olde Air in Texas to see if they have a better idea.
Greg Surfas

[J. Wagnon]

I took the belt off and hand spun the pulley with the clutch disengaged (engine not running). The clicking noise is still there so it definitely is in the clutch. On one of the previous returns to Classic Air {due to a roaring sound} they told me the roar was from the 3  Bakalite? bearings that should have been replaced on the 1st rebuild they did but it evidently had not been done. On the last return to them they claimed to have been thru the entire compressor, valve, and clutch (including the 3 bearings). It no longer roars but now the clutch clicks. I am loath to sent it back to Classic Air for a 5th try. Is there a source for these clutch parts? If so my local restoration shop could attempt to deal with the clutch. If not does anyone Have a shop they would recommend? Given the info I have supplied would anyone hazard a guess as to the cause being the 3 bearings, the shims, or...? Thanks all, James

[J. Wagnon]

Also - Classic Air rebuilt the dryer, bypass valve, and supplied all new hoses. The condenser was boiled and pressure tested as was the coil? under the dash & behind the pass side fender so the entire system is clean & new. Switch and cables are correct and working well. A/C cools and has 3 distinct fan speeds. All is good except clutch clicking. James

[J. Gomez]

James,

I have rebuilt a few of these units and can only provide with my previous experience with them.

I took the belt off and hand spun the pulley with the clutch disengaged (engine not running). The clicking noise is still there so it definitely is in the clutch.

So your assumption seems to be correct if you hear the noise it would be either the pulley bearing and/or the clutch. Now if the rebuilder replace the main bearing you can rule that one out.   

On one of the previous returns to Classic Air {due to a roaring sound} they told me the roar was from the 3  Bakalite? bearings that should have been replaced on the 1st rebuild they did but it evidently had not been done. On the last return to them they claimed to have been thru the entire compressor, valve, and clutch (including the 3 bearings). It no longer roars but now the clutch clicks.

Interesting the rebuilder failed to check the most obvious piece(s) in the clutch the 3-plastic balls specially for a 62 year compressor.    If they used Bakelite balls those should be fine but those would tend to become brittle and crack with heat and usage, I’ve use ceramic more $$ but they do hold better.

There are also three springs which holds both clutch plates in place, the springs applies pressure to keep the clutch plates close while the balls go in between the plates. 

Given the info I have supplied would anyone hazard a guess as to the cause being the 3 bearings, the shims, or...?

When the coil is energized it pulls the rear clutch plate against the ring to friction lock it in place the centrifugal force then forces the clutch to rotate (inside balls) and the front would friction lock with the pulley. 

If the rebuilder replaced the three balls on the clutch they would need to check the air gap on both rear clutch plate and ring (coil energized) and front clutch plate and pulley, the gap would need to be done when the balls are replace. Putting the old shim back with new balls would not guaranty the gap would be correct since the ball will not have the same diameter as the original ones. So there would be a need to add or remove shims are either place front or rear.

Is there a source for these clutch parts? If so my local restoration shop could attempt to deal with the clutch.

Unfortunately there are no parts source for these old Frigidaire compressors so the parts would need to be rebuilt from the old ones.    

You can ask your local restoration shop if they can tackle the A/C to check the air gap on the clutch following the service manual steps. There should not be a need to remove the compressor from the car as long as you have clearance to remove the pulley out, but removing the clutch would be tricky as you would need the special tool.

The front gap would the easier to check you can reference the attach picture 56sacs22.jpg, the rear would be a bit harder since the coil would need to be energized with the complete clutch, ring and pulley install see 56sacs24.jpg.

Hope this would help, good luck..!

[J. Wagnon]

Thank you that was very helpful. You mention ceramic ball bearings, Where can those be purchased? Is it possible to use steel or would that create other problems?

[J. Gomez]

Thank you that was very helpful. You mention ceramic ball bearings, Where can those be purchased? Is it possible to use steel or would that create other problems?

James,

Unfortunately I’ve lost several of my notes after my HD crashed way back  , so I can only go from memory. I think I got them from either McMaster-Carr or maybe from an eBay seller.   

I’ve a few old ones from my previous rebuilds (’56 and ’57) and I measure them at 0.45”.

No these CAN NOT be metallic balls since the clutch is pulled by the magnetic force of the coil when it is energized. Having metallic balls in between the clutch plates would cause the clutch not to rotate and open to engage the compressor.

As I mention if yours are new and they are Bakelite as you stated or even the ones original used Nylon type they should be fine.

[J. Wagnon]

Do you think they could be produced with a hard plastic material on a 3-d printer?

[J. Gomez]

Do you think they could be produced with a hard plastic material on a 3-d printer?

That is for sure anything can be done with a 3d printer now a days. 

[J. Wagnon]

Thank you for the knowledge, I am pursuing your tips now.