58 Convertible, Can I get it to Albuquerque?

[raugusti]

With the 2021 National in Albuquerque only 5 or 6 hours away I thought it would be a good incentive for getting my convertible back together.  While the paint, upholstery and at least the big pieces of chrome were done by my father-in-law before I bought the car from the estate, nothing was done as far as engine, trans, chassis, brakes, etc.  In the 30+ years I've known of this car I have never seen or heard it run, much less move under it's own power.
I am still in the disassembly stage with all of the mechanicals and am starting to run into questions.  While I have posted a couple of random questions before I thought I would start this post to keep everything together.
Attached are a few pics of the starting point.

Scott

[raugusti]

First question:
Has anyone seen welds like this on an engine block before?  I've looked at both my parts cars, and neither of their engines have anything like it, just bare castings.
Any idea what would cause the need for it or why it would be like that?
I really didn't want to pull the engine...

Thanks
Scott

[novetti]

Beautiful car!

Wow I never seen welds in a cast iron block like that. Looks like someone have been there sometime in the past.

Is the engine it original to the car? Do the numbers match?

Its a gamble, if it hasn't run for such a long time, I would pull it our and get through it properly. As a minimum (New Rings, Con rod bearings, valve job, new lifters, camshaft maybe).

To redo the powertrain will be easier than the work already performed, pull the hood, radiator etc and it should come off with the Transmission.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Those pictures look like there has been a repair, possibly from coolant freezing and expanding, resulting in fractures.

Looks like it is a good job, but I would be checking everywhere else on the block, and having a pressure test of the block to make sure that there are no weep spots.

Blocks and cast iron can be repaired, as I once had a FE 427 Ford engine with the cross-bolt mains, and that block had been welded up to cover where the Welsh Plugs used to be to bring the block back into service.

I was told that the block was one of the production test engines, and when Ford had completed their tests, they decommissioned the blocks by hitting the welsh plug holes with a sledge hammer, thus rendering then unuseable.   These were complete engines that then went out for scrap, but somewhere along the line, some were put to one side and "resurected".   How it ended up in Tasmania is a question, but seeing as this motore had Mondello-modified heads, I would say that it was a motor in a race car, as I got it out of a '68 Galaxie that had been a Drag Car.

Bruce.

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

Just one thought to ponder. The worst thing to
do is to rush a restoration to make a date for a
specific show.  I was a CLC judge for about 20
years and I have seen the results of this multiple
times.  It never ends well.

My best advice -- take you time and do it right the
first time.  There is always "next year" and another
show.  You'll be glad you did.

Mike

[James Landi]

I think Mike is exactly right about "doing it right" the first time; HOWEVER, having read some terrific successful narrative here about members who have been successful and I being a shade tree mechanic for decades and having been successful on several occasions, I, personally, am curious to know if an existing and "sleeping" engine and drive train can be brought to life with a minimum of cost and sweat equity.  So my suggestion follows:  pull the plugs, fill the cylinders with Marvel Mystery Oil-- ( let "steep" for an indeterminate time)-- pressure test the cooling system.  Disconnect the fuel line from the carburetor( to avoid fouled fuel to move)...  Try turning the engine over using the "Armstrong method" --- that is, grabbing the fan, and pushing down on the belts, and determining if the engine internals and the mechanical gods on in your corner.  If the engine can rotate using your muscle power, then the next step is to spin it with the starter.  Do a compression test with the engine cold. If you get no compression out of a cylinder or two, you may have a hung valve ( here with, you'll need to make a decision)-- however, you may be surprised that with a cold and sleeping engine that you get something around 50 psi or better from all eight cylinders.   If the engine's block seems good, you have some compression, then devise some kind of fuel supply for your carburetor to provide fresh gas.  Add water to the radiator--  At that point, I'd try to start it, checking for spark of course, and keeping a firre extinguisher handy.  You may be surprised to find that you have a working engine, and at that point, some investments in coolant, oil/filter, etc. may yield a perfectly serviceable engine.  Of course, you may find after you've done all of the above, that the damn thing has horrible blow by (aka bad rings), uneven compression because of burnt exhaust valves, shakes horribly, and was not worth the effort. But you "never know," until you try, and that will most certainly depend on who you are and how you;ll feel if you tried and failed.   Happy day, and be of good cheer, James

[raugusti]

Thanks for all the replies!
The engine is not original to the car, but it is a 58 365, I think the pad stamp indicates it came out of a sedan.  It does turn freely, so much so that I had to use an impact wrench on the crank bolt because a socket and breaker bar just kept turning the engine.
I had been thinking about trying a compression test turning the engine over with an air wrench, so I will try that.  I need to get the pan off to take a look at the insides from the underside.  At this point, if I pull the bolts to change the motor mounts, I’m only the bell housing bolts away from having it totally loose.  And pulling it would allow me to detail the engine compartment…

While the car had very little rust and the body was in good shape overall, while working on it and seeing what was done in the past I get a ‘rode hard and put away wet’ vibe from it.

The car will not be judged.  I just like a correct original driver.  I am familiar with the last minute flog though.  I think I dropped the motor into my Corvette and ran it in abut 2 days before taking off on a 3 week roadtrip across highway 50 to Monterey for the 50th anniversary celebrations.
I do have a fall back for the convention in the Seville, which is already a driver.
Thanks again!
Scott

[James Landi]

Scott-- just one more 2 cent toss to you.  Since it turns freely, I suggest that after you take a cold compression reading, if you get to 50-60 psi on each cylinder, that you connect a fresh supply of fuel, check for spark, and try to start it.  You just may be pleasantly surprised.  My final and respectful suggestion.  Either way you decide, I hope this all works out for you.  James

[raugusti]

I had to reinstall the starter and battery to do a compression check and got the following:
   Dry   Wet         Dry   Wet
1)   100   170      2)   120   145
3)   85   115      4)   100   140
5)   95   150      6)   100   130
7)   120   140         140   150
I think by the time I got to the back cylinders things were starting to loosen up.
Compression wise, I don’t think that’s too bad for a motor that no-one has tried to start for 20 years.
I dropped the pan and windage tray and things looked good on the bottom end.  Pan only had about a quarter inch of the typical sludge.  However, 2 of the freeze plugs on one side have been replaced and the third is weeping.  The ones on the other side don’t look much better. At this point I’ve resigned myself to pulling the motor, for a clean, reseal and paint, even if I don’t rebuild it.  Those welds have me more than a little concerned still.
Thanks again for the replies

Scott

[James Landi]

The compression looks  impressive, but if the freeze plugs are leaking, the coolant may be acidic.  ---if you have not flushed out what is in there, have the coolant tested for acids, and yes, at the very least, you'll likely need to replace those plugs.   of course you can pressurize the cooling system with the motor out of the car, and at the very least, do that so there are no surprises. The welds do seem off putting.  James

[raugusti]

@5960Special asked about x-frame reinforcements for convertibles, so I took some crappy cell phone pics of my 58's while removing the drive shaft this evening.
They follow the frame pretty much front to back with a large plate at the center of the X.  The plate looks heavier than the skid plates on my Wrangler.  I also verified that there is nothing like this on a CDV, or a Seville.

Scott

[savemy67]

Hello Scott,

Based on your initial compression test results, I second Jame's suggestion that you try to start the engine and let it reach normal operating temperature.  Do this three or four times over the course of a week, and repeat the cold compression test.  If the results of the second test show as much divergence in readings as your first test, you may want to consider getting another block, especially given the unusual weldments.  Generally. more than a ten percent difference in compression test values between cylinders indicates excessive bore and or ring wear.  The engine will run, but combustion pressure varies which may make your crankshaft, rod, and main bearings unhappy.

Respectfully submitted,

Christopher Winter