Steering Coupler "Rag Joint"

[Ike]

Jim,
      Thanks for the insight.  I do have a MASTER PARTS book, I just don't seem to be able to find that particular one.  I see universal joint shafts and the Eldorado shows a coupler.  Also, Ive looked at some photos of 69'S that are being parted out or sold and looks like the same part. 

Im going to do what you said and check the top and bottom  and see. it does look like its pretty cramped.  Maybe the shorter one would be better.

Thanks again

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I wouldn't be installing a universal joint unless it has a sliding capability, as these bodies do flex.   Hence the Rag Joint.

Bruce.

[fishnjim]

I checked around and only found 1(one) reference to a double disc on this guy's store. (I've never heard of this and I've known and rode in that year.  Old dog new trick)
Contact them and see if they can help/advise.
I see no one making such part today.   Can not locate a P/N for it.   Every part search comes up with the single style common to period GMs.   
So improvise, adapt, and overcome or send out.   Certainly not exhaustive but all I care to spend on this.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/222815675230?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=222815675230&targetid=4580909047876957&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=410488082&mkgroupid=1236950807674667&rlsatarget=pla-4580909047876957&abcId=9300488&merchantid=51291&msclkid=240865673b3a1a15bd15051768994c7b

[Ike]

Jim,
      That's hilarious, That is who I bought the one I have from, he said he does not have the 2 disc.  He said to buy a second disc and add it.  That's where this thread started, So I guess This is where I end it.   I'll figure it out, I was just reaching out to see if anyone has ever had to find one. 

Thanks to all for the info and the help,
                                                          Ike

[bcroe]

My observations, those discs used to have a much larger dia, which meant
they were less stressed and would last longer before getting very sloppy,
probably easier to change too.  But some bean counter (may they burn in ...)
figured out $.05 could be saved making the rubber disc smaller, which caused
older car handling to deteriorate more to make you want a new one, and finally
causing mechanics and  restorers just the sort of grief we are having here.  The
other issue is, there is no OEM support for so many things.  Bruce Roe

[Cadman-iac]

Brian,

I knew that I have seen that fat rag joint before,  and today while I was digging around for a steering shaft part, I came across this, see attached pictures.
This one came out of a '69 Fleetwood parts car I had years ago when I still had my '69 ragtop. It had the exact same problem as what you are having. The gearbox or one of the hoses, I don't remember anymore, had leaked all over the rag joint and turned it to mush. I took one off of another parts car to fix the problem, and after I sold the convertible, I stripped the others of anything I thought I'd ever need. And that's why I have this one today.
I don't know if anyone sells this fat one, I couldn't find it back in the mid 80's when I was looking.
Have you found something that would work for you yet?

  Rick

[Ike]

Rick,
       Thanks for sharing that, I am currently at the mercy of a local machine shop that is going to drill out the old stops and manufacture new ones long enough to accommodate the 2nd disc.  I've also asked that they be threaded so I can put a nut and washer on them.   
That was a week and a half ago.. that's also the only thing hold up this ride from being driven.  🤷🏻‍♂️

[Ike]

It could be interesting to know why a double joint was used/needed. Wrong alignment with the column? I would use the single joint as you pictured. With a power steering, the transmitted torque is not that important, a single joint will do the job.

A single joint will not work because the overall length is not enough to allow the pinch bolt to pass through the coupling. There is a flat on the spline that is machined in to allow the bolt to be installed.

[Ike]

I would just like to add, that I was told by the vendor that I purchased the replacement coupler from ( it was a single disc, I take responsibility for purchasing the wrong one) he said to just add a second disc.

Apparrently, you can by the discs and hardware, however, they are all single disc repair kits, as the stop pins are all only long enough for a single disc.

I was unable to make the vendor understand this.

[Cadman-iac]

Brian,

  I think I have a set of the longer replacement studs, or bolts, whatever you want to call it,  for the thicker insulator.  Give me a couple of hours to make sure I'm not mistaken about this, but if I do have a pair, I would sell them for $20.⁰⁰ plus the shipping if you're interested.
I'll get back to you on this in a short while.

Rick

[Chuck Swanson]

Jim,
      That's hilarious, That is who I bought the one I have from, he said he does not have the 2 disc.  He said to buy a second disc and add it.  That's where this thread started, So I guess This is where I end it.   I'll figure it out, I was just reaching out to see if anyone has ever had to find one. 

Thanks to all for the info and the help,
                                                          Ike

Hi Ike,

I mentioned this issue to John, as I needed a double setup for my '66 cars too. as they all have doubles as I bought two kits also last year.  Then realized the same as you, the bolts are not long enough.  Finally found a good one on my 5 parts cars, and cleaned up and used.  Yep, you can get the double disks, but I have searched all over and could never find the doubles kit anywhere.  Interestingly, my '65 Eldo uses a single disk.   The '66 steel part of assembly is shorter.   In theory, a '65 with the long shaft and single rubber disk may have worked in my '66, but I wanted to put back as the factory installed, as maybe there was a reason for going to the double rubber disk setup.  Please let us know how your rebuild works. 
I do have two single kits extra as they are useless to me
Chuck

[Cadman-iac]

Brian,

I do have a pair of the longer bolts/pins for the thicker disc. I've also got a pair of longer bolts as well. Here's a couple pictures of what I have, and if you want all 4, you can have them for $30.⁰⁰ and shipping. I put the original pins beside the replacement ones so that you could compare them. I had to cut those original ones in order to remove the disc from the car. Not sure where I got the replacement pins/bolts from, but they've been in my stash of parts for many years now. Must have been on another parts car, but I honestly don't recall.
Included with this will be the little wire for the horn ground,  and the curved washers for under the bolts, which you can see in my previous post with the pic of the disc, at least I think you can see it in the picture.

  Edit: Just for comparison,  I included a short bolt for a single disc.

[Ike]

Thanks Guys,
                    Here is my Plan,  I went to Advance auto and bought another single coupler,  Hardware store had threaded Studs the same Diameter as the stop pins.  My plan is to grind off the stop pins on the new coupler, install the second disc, install and lock tight the studs as stop pins, and use longer bolts to attach to the steering shaft. 

As soon as that's done, Im sure the Machine shop that has my original will call and tell me its ready. If any of this does not work, I will reach out for those longer pins you have.  But Im already about $150.00 into just couplers, that's not counting the machine shop.   Man, The gearbox was a piece of cake compared to this.

Thanks guys for your help.

                                    V/r,
                                         Ike

[Cadman-iac]

Brian,
   Sorry for the delay. Here's the pictures of the double rubber disc piece. As you can see, it's not in the best shape. I tried to get a couple different angles of where it's separated, and the splits on one side.

Rick

[Ike]

That's exactly how mine looked very soft and mushy..  so I have picked up my new single disc and drilled out the stops.  So far, looks like everything is going to go as planned

I did choose to tap the coupler so. I could thread the studs in. That saves a little room instead of putting a nut and washer on . 

I will work on this a little each day after work. Should be done Saturday

[fishnjim]

Glad U R progressing.  The tonic for frustration is perseverance.
Interesting problem.   Definitely caught me on this one.   It looks like a one or part year only issue and not at all common.  One for the trivia games.

I was just curious, since I don't have this year parts list, as to what steering gear is on this car and if maybe that's why the longer coupler, the stub shaft might be shorter than the previous year's one?  (A larger gap between) 
I would doubt the steering column length is very different, unless a factory mess up.  aka, in technical terms an "oh, shxx!"   Sounds like an on the fly knee jerk solution, too.   I suspect Cad paid a fair penny for those special engineered couplers back in the day and tried to keep it quiet going forward...   No one would fess up to one of these.   Somebody owed someone else a favor.   U just know, somewhere, there's a whole box of them NOS neatly packaged sitting on someones shelf...   Never to see the light of day again.

Just a thought: they often cut steering shafts and install u joints for fitment in rods/customs, etc.   You might've been able to section the column install a u-joint or spool piece to lengthen and use a single joint.   More work and harder job for sure.  That would fix the problem in perpetuity.   Probably what I'd do in this case.   Wouldn't be "factory" but functional and match the 99.9999% of all the others.   The next owner will have the joy of discovering this thread for his or her replacement.

[Ike]

Pics of my progress.  Jim the gearbox is a saginaw that is used in Buick, Pontiac, Chevrolet and Cadillac.  I will try and send a photo of the input shaft. Once I get it back out.

[Ike]

Sorry did not realize the photos are upside down. 

[fishnjim]

Should have a number on it or listed in the part list.   They made quite a few.   Could be the dimensions changed on newer model and no one caught it.   Saginaw was part of GM but stand alone.

[cadillacmike68]

I had to have mine replaced a couple years ago - and the lower bearing. I don't remember any issues with the thickness of the dubber flex disc, but with that new lower bearing, the car steered fantastic - better than the previous 20 years!

Maybe I can get a pic of it in the car. I hope I kept the old one for the bolts - pins, etc.