‘58 365 , wet #2 cilinder

[Rdtreur]

I'm trying to get my 1958 365 to run like it should.
New points, condenser, cap, rotor, wires, sparkplugs.
Motor still runs a bit off. #2 cilinder got a wet spark plug en looks wet when looking in the bore.
Changed plugs & wire to rule those out . #2 cilinder is still wet.
Cap looks as new.
Did a compression test (hot motor) and all cilinders got approx 140 psi.

Now could this be a valve oil seal . As far as I know these 365 just got O-rings and no valve stem seals. Is this correct? Could a failing O ring do this?

Or would this more likely be a piston ring problem??

I hope someone can help me out:-)

Many thanks, Ramon Treur, Amsterdam

[walt chomosh #23510]

Ramon,
  May I suggest verifying spark to the plug.....valve seals,rings,etc should not enter into the picture. With compression the cylinder should be firing....walt...tulsa,ok....I've ran into "new" parts that fail exactually like the old one I removed numerous times....

[Rdtreur]

Thanks Walt, but I got spark at the plug. I did switch with several wires and plugs but cilinder #2 keeps getting wet. As the fluid would not vaporize I guess it's oil and not gas .

[fishnjim]

I guess you need to find out what it's "wet" with, gas, oil, both, or something else -coolant - like a head gasket seeping from the coolant passage.   These heads usually crack in the middle, not at #2.  But the water pump bolts in on that side, too.
I doubt the compression would be good if a ring or valve seal issue. 
It should still run, with one cylinder out, but may have more tailpipe emissions.
If it has spark, but is not firing that cylinder will be colder.   I usually test for spark with my capacitance timing light.   Put the pickup in #2, it'll light up if it's sparking in the cylinder.   

[TJ Hopland]

With a new clean plug does it run fine for a while then start running rough because the plug is getting dirty?   Or doesn't it run right with a new plug either?

[Rdtreur]

With a new clean plug does it run fine for a while then start running rough because the plug is getting dirty?   Or doesn't it run right with a new plug either?

Yes, when I use a clean or new plug in #2 it runs good. Only when I start te rev it up, it starts to smoke from the exhaust.

[James Landi]

Ramon,

YOur last post is a major clue, and may be an indication of a major problem.  Some engine oil coming through the valve guides will produce smoke; however, the engine should run well, and that spark plug should have an accumulation of soot.  When revving your engine, the only possible moisture is coolant--- a cracked cylinder head may be your issue, and as mention in another post, not an unlikely challenge- also, perhaps a head gasket leak. Try running the engine with the radiator cap off and see if you can discern bubbles---that would likely indicate a leaky head gasket..  you might try an overnight cooling system pressure test with the engine cold.  Alas, I hope I'm wrong, and it's something much less serious.    James

[Daryl Chesterman]

Did a compression test (hot motor) and all cilinders got approx 140 psi.

Yes, when I use a clean or new plug in #2 it runs good. Only when I start te rev it up, it starts to smoke from the exhaust.

If the smoke is white smoke, I would agree with others that it is a coolant problem.  However, if it is a bluish color smoke, it would be an oil problem.  With that much compression, and if the smoke color is bluish in color, I believe you have a problem with oil passing by the valve guides.  I assume the o-rings on the valve stems are for oil control past the valve guides, and with 63 years of age and however-many miles, those o-rings are probably in very bad condition or nonexistent.  You can replace them without having to remove the cylinder heads, or you can try running a hotter spark plug to help reduce oil-fouling.  Another alternative is to use spark plug extenders that help keep the spark plug out of the oil and help to keep the spark plug from fouling.  You will still burn oil with the extenders or a hotter spark plug, but it will make your spark plugs last longer and keep you from having to do something about the oil passing through the valve guides—just a temporary fix.

Daryl Chesterman

[Roger Zimmermann]

Your car still has vacuum wipers? Then there is a check valve behind the starter motor. When this check valve is defective, the intake vacuum is sucking oil from the vacuum pump. Before you go under the car to remove the starter motor to get at the valve, pull a vacuum hose. If it has some oil into it go further with repairing the check valve. If the hose is dry, bad luck, your issue is something else.

[fishnjim]

Concentrate on #2 cylinder and run a wet and dry compression test to see if the ring is at issue.   Beyond that, I'd be opening up that side for inspection.   This can be debated for a long time and no action will result.

[Rdtreur]

Your car still has vacuum wipers? Then there is a check valve behind the starter motor. When this check valve is defective, the intake vacuum is sucking oil from the vacuum pump. Before you go under the car to remove the starter motor to get at the valve, pull a vacuum hose. If it has some oil into it go further with repairing the check valve. If the hose is dry, bad luck, your issue is something else.

I noticed the oil in the vacuum hose and did block it to make sure no oil is getting into the intake. So that's not my problem for the #2 cilinder:-(

I do need to look into that check valve your talking about. Where can I find a replacement?
Many thanks, Ramon

[Rdtreur]

Concentrate on #2 cylinder and run a wet and dry compression test to see if the ring is at issue.   Beyond that, I'd be opening up that side for inspection.   This can be debated for a long time and no action will result.

I guess I need to do a wet/dry compression test if this will rule out the rings... I'm not familiar with this way of checking. Can you please point me in the right direction?

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

To do the wet check, one squirts some engine oil into the cylinder, via the spark plug hole, and then crank the engine a couple of times.   This oil seals the top compression rings, temporarily, thus allowing the performance of the valves to be indicated.

BUT, the dry test has to be done first, as this gives you a base reading.

Bruce.

[Rdtreur]

To do the wet check, one squirts some engine oil into the cylinder, via the spark plug hole, and then crank the engine a couple of times.   This oil seals the top compression rings, temporarily, thus allowing the performance of the valves to be indicated.

BUT, the dry test has to be done first, as this gives you a base reading.

Bruce.

Thanks, but correct me if I'm wrong, my compression is in all cilinders approx 140psi so no problems with compression. This seems to be a valve stem seal problem or I'm missing something ?

[J. Gomez]

Ramon,

Not sure if you had a chance to review my PM I sent since I was having issues posting a reply to this thread do to the "Spam blocking issues"

One alternative if you have access to an inspection camera is to take a peek inside the cylinder and see what is going on without going too deep.

If you have the same compression as the other cylinders is obvious the compression rings are working but if the oil rings are not doing the job you may see streaks around the cylinder wall. You will need to manually drive the oil pump to get pressure and rotate the engine manually to see if the oil is coming from the top (valve seals "O" rings) or bottom (piston oil ring) while taking a peek with the camera.

If you suspect the valve seals may be the issue you can replace the "O" ring seals without removing the heads, there are several methods to do that just do a Google search.

Maybe the best option in your case is to tackle the "O" rings first and give it a try with fingers cross.

Good luck..!

[Rdtreur]

Thanks, I did not see the pm until now... I guess I just start with the o-rings and hope for the best, just like you suggested...

Ramon,

Not sure if you had a chance to review my PM I sent since I was having issues posting a reply to this thread do to the "Spam blocking issues"

One alternative if you have access to an inspection camera is to take a peek inside the cylinder and see what is going on without going too deep.

If you have the same compression as the other cylinders is obvious the compression rings are working but if the oil rings are not doing the job you may see streaks around the cylinder wall. You will need to manually drive the oil pump to get pressure and rotate the engine manually to see if the oil is coming from the top (valve seals "O" rings) or bottom (piston oil ring) while taking a peek with the camera.

If you suspect the valve seals may be the issue you can replace the "O" ring seals without removing the heads, there are several methods to do that just do a Google search.

Maybe the best option in your case is to tackle the "O" rings first and give it a try with fingers cross.

Good luck..!

[J. Gomez]

Thanks, I did not see the pm until now... I guess I just start with the o-rings and hope for the best, just like you suggested...

Ramon,

Sometime it is best to start with the easier tasks first and go from there, going down a dark hole with no light is not fund.   

Good luck..!

[TJ Hopland]

A hotter plug or spark plug anti fouler spacer may be a patch to help the plug last a little longer in that hole till a proper repair / rebuild can be made.

[Roger Zimmermann]

.... since I was having issues posting a reply to this thread do to the "Spam blocking issues"

Welcome to the club! I was locked out too; the administrator wrote to me that I should add the Java Script. I did some manipulations (don't ask, computers are not my glass of red wine) and I can again post with Microsoft Edge. I had no issue with Firefox.

[James Landi]

Ramon, TJ may have "the ticket."  I owned a Ford 6 cylinder that fouled one plug every two or three hundred miles...  yes, the plug was "wet" with unburned gasoline, and also full of soot. (I also had a similar issue with a generator-- I had mistakenly left the spark plug tower nut in the wire boot, thus causing a slight spark delay for that cylinder--- drove me nuts!)
I think I'd go with TJ's suggestion-- the hotter plug usually extends farther into the combustion chamber with the the "cathode and anode" entirely exposed, thus much more difficult to foul.  Hope this works for you, as it might help to narrow the diagnosis, and perhaps provide you with some time to enjoy the car this summer    James