*ORIGINAL* paint code 93 'Lucerne Aqua'

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Code "00" denotes Special Order item, ie: not used in regular production. Was used for interior (TRIM) and/or paint color.

"00" code items could be anything.

[wrefakis]

1970 non model year or non cadillac color only show a - where paint code would be

[wrefakis]

there was a post from a frequent poster regarding the rare 70 fleetwood with leather only one out of 10 built that way
asked for his sorce 'automotive milestones web site" of corse all they list are total built
askes again "clc member provided"
total nonesense

59 Eldo 99 buckets seats
sure except that i have all the records  and its around 38% of production

and last but not lease a running change during model year production not disclosed to dealers,whom in the normal course of vehicle make ready would require this to properly make a spot repair on affect vehicle

so since these days facts do not matter,you can run with any of these bs stories,but if anyone chooses to supply the color formula change service advisory from cadillac prior to 8/70 your entire trip to gn 24 is on me !

[wrefakis]

sorry for typos and 70 fleetwood posting was on facebook

[Dave Shepherd]

Code "00" denotes Special Order item, ie: not used in regular production. Was used for interior (TRIM) and/or paint color.

"00" code items could be anything.

Agreed

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Honest to God I think wrefakis and Eric are in a duel for the "Jeffrey Toobin CLC forum award."

Here's the deal kids, the color The Ark is painted now is the color it left Clark Street with in November of 1969.

There's empirical evidence ON the car, (photo's supplied) there's empirical evidence from those who saw it BRAND NEW. Data plate is code 93 Lucerne Aqua ordered in a 'firemist' color. We don't care about the often wrong 'documentation' from GM or anywhere else. GM was notorious for changing colors but not codes at that time, ask the old Chevy, Buick, Pontiac people. They even changed almost a dozen Cadillac color paint codes, but not the paint. They eliminated a color in early 70 and replaced it, fortunately changing colors and codes. The Ark's color is correct and authentic to the car.

Dickie Garbitt's father saved everything, including the ORIGINAL paint chip, its attached. I'd love to bring that with me to the Nationals but its part of his father's heritage at the his shop, I'll understand if he declines. But he remembers working on those cars in THAT color, they went nuts trying to match it.

Here's a page from the orignal paint discussion...
https://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=167549.msg514436#msg514436

Here's the entire 10 page thread if there's nothing good on PPV...
https://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=167549.0

And it gets worse; a member of my local club, Phil Cobb, was a tech in 1970 at an upstate NY Caddy dealer, he remembers the nightmares the body shop had trying to match that paint. I'll be seeing Phil this Saturday at our July 4th cruise in/cook out for the local club. Phil has given me several 'fixes' for The Ark... "Yeah that was an issue in 1970 when they were new, do this..." Perfect.

And it gets worser; the Owner of the "Norwood Automobile Company" was there the day James Hallet (Durgin Park restaurant owner) picked up The Ark, BRAND NEW in 1969, he remembers that color. He gave me all the literature he had left from the NAC when he saw me at Endicott, where The Ark was given "Best Of Show" for the New England Region last year.

And it gets even worserer; James Hallet's youngest granddaughter runs the Hallet Funeral Home here in town, I live around the corner from Ansel HALLETT Road, who knew the Halletts were such a significant Cape Cod family? I brought the car there last year and showed it to her - she remembered grampy's car, the color, vividly.

So while the keyboard commando's were doing "their thing" I was out there all day driving The Ark. Down to Wood's Hole in heavy, hot traffic with the AC cranked and ice cold. Beautiful cruise around downtown and the ferry docks. Took the long way home through the most serene, beautiful places I've ever seen on the Cape. And The Ark came home perfectly fine with a slightly warm engine hot were it needed to be but unperturbed by over 3 hours of heat, traffic and constant AC use. Another cruise tomorrow to Provincetown in what will be nightmare heavy, hot traffic. I'm thinking a lobster roll at the Lobster Pot consumed at the park beach side will be nice. Michael calls these "confidence cruises", he may be right, his tweak to lower the coolant pressure is sure working. There won't be any traffic coming home so a good beating of the Reid's Automotive 472 is in order. #DriveItLikeYouStoleIt - M. Amster That trip tomorrow will complete my confidence build. We're off to northern Maine/Canadian border in August, including a car show at my old base NAS Brunswick. If I can hop from Salon Maine directly to my driveway, I can probably make the trip to Gettysburg in 1 hop. We are TOURING DIVISION after all, right? Trailer queens need not apply, they have all they can do to get off the trailer and park. I wonder how many primary cars will throw on radials and try to enter 'touring'. We called that "sand bagging" when I was shooting USPSA professionally. Let's hope the judges are keen enough to see that, bounce them back into Primary with the proper deductions for their tires of course.

I recommend you guys spend more time driving your cars than being keyboard commando's. The time is coming, soon, when you'll be lying in a hospital bed and wishing you had driven and enjoyed your cars more. Oh well. Time for bed, I can taste that lobster roll now and I'm really looking forward to Friday's cruise, today's was just off the charts magical. What FUN this car is. #TheArk #ArkNRoll #Blessed

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

All we have are a bunch of anecdotal accounts/recollections of this, that and the other. The difficulty in matching metallic paint to original applied finishes has bedeviled body shops ever since they appeared so nothing unusual there.

Any mid-production changes would have been documented in the Cadillac Serviceman shop manual. Until that is provided, the argument is all hat and no cattle.   

[wrefakis]

your paint chart is aftermarket dated 1971
i will review all factor paint bulletins and post
i do not need to drive mine , i have had over 100 of them and this is the only really good one out of bunch since my lucerne double white in 1972

you post and aftermarket paint vendor chip chart like that has anything to do with factory changes during model year production
do you even own a copy of 1970 service bulletins?

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

LOL! Eric, I'm not arguing, I've already proven. Which of your Caddy's did you drive today or plan for this weekend? Which of your cars will you be bringing to the Nationals for expert review?

wrefrakis I do have reprints of the service bulletins, the omission of that color change matches service bulletins from my old Corvette owners, as well as Buick and Pontiac. And if I was you, I'd spend what free time you have left DRIVING your cars, time grows short. If you're going to research anything, why not do a search for the color 'aqua', any search engine. This assumes you still have critical thinking skills.

EXCELLENT! The weather guessers have upgraded this weekend's forecast! Not only is my clubs' July 4th barbq ON for Saturday night, the show in Falmouth (wasn't I just there?) is now ON for Sunday!

Jeez this car is even more funner to drive with blistering heat, freezing air conditioning - and a working radio! YAY!

#DriveYourCars #DriveItLikeYouStoleIt

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

LOL! Eric, I'm not arguing, I've already proven. 

You haven't posted any factory documentation from GM of the alleged change therefore nothing has been proven.

I haven't yet decided what I'm taking to the next GN but I'll be entering at least one. Depends on whether I can find another driver/transporter. I drive my cars every so often conditions permitting etc but I enjoy them 85% as much just admiring them parked in garage. Possession alone is enough for me. YMMV.   

[wrefakis]

a- i was waiting for the insults to kick in
b-all the bs in the world will not explain why EVERY running change save for this one is in service updates
c- i am bringing my LTC to gettsyburgh also =ltc = lincoln town car
d- take my $ produce proof of running change in color and your gn is on me
e- again please maintain respect as i have

[David King (kz78hy)]

I opened the 70-75 Cadillac Master Parts list disc and took a screen shot of the 1970 exterior paint codes/colors.  It is pasted below.  In a section after the paint/color area for interior and exterior, there was a brief section listing known running changes with Serviceman references.  This was for 70-75 model years and this paint code discussion was not addressed there.
I'm not buying or selling, but the documentation shows a single color for #93 in 1970 and it could be the one used on Laurie's car.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Creating a paint formula is a complex affair. The paint used to be sprayed for the entire model year is most probably never done in one batch, but in several. It's always possible that some variations relative to the proportions happened, modifying the aspect of the paint.
I had once a rented car which front clip had definitively a slightly different color than the rest of the car, and the car had no accident repair.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Absolutely. Variances were a regular occurrence for most colors throughout production, especially metallics. Front fender/hood body panels were painted separately at a different stations before being installed at the body plant which are often off-color from the rest of the car aft of the cowl. How well they matched was a matter of luck.

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Correction to post #25 here - it wasn't the GM of the Norwood Automobile Company who handed James Hallett the keys to The Ark, IN THAT COLOR, when purchased brand new - it was the OWNER of the Norwood Automobile Company.
(I just got an email, LOL! SORRY!) But hey, WTF does the owner of a Caddy dealership know, right?
Eric you and wrefarkis have owned Caddy dealerships, you guys can testify...

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

But hey, WTF does the owner of a Caddy dealership know, right?
Eric you and wrefarkis have owned Caddy dealerships, you guys can testify...

Where it written that being a Cadillac dealer makes him the absolute encyclopedia on all things Cadillac?  I wasn't a Cadillac dealer but I grew up in the car business and knew several Cadillac dealership owner-operators. One of them was a close personal friend of my father's. We used to go on hunting & fishing trips together. Believe me when I tell you, the Cadillac dealers I knew had far more important things on their minds than doting over every scrap of minutia as we do here. In specific points, I could run rings around any of these guys, even as a teen who often had their facts wrong. So spare me the "infallible Cadillac dealer" nonsense.     

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Where it written that being a Cadillac dealer makes him the absolute encyclopedia on all things Cadillac?  I wasn't a Cadillac dealer but I grew up in the car business and knew several Cadillac dealership owner-operators. One of them was a close personal friend of my father's. We used to go on hunting & fishing trips together. Believe me when I tell you, the Cadillac dealers I knew had far more important things on their minds than doting over every scrap of minutia as we do here. In specific points, I could run rings around any of these guys, even as a teen who often had their facts wrong. So spare me the "infallible Cadillac dealer" nonsense.     

Suuuuuuuuuuuuure Eric, especially when you were the #1 Caddy dealer in New England at the time and selling a new car to one of the highest profile businessmen in Boston. LOL! Hey, I'm getting ready to leave now for 1 of 3 shows in 2 days, flying the Cadillac flag and bringing back memories to the public. What are you doing today; hunting, fishing or doting? LOL! Spend your time wisely, there's not much left. 

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Often wrong; never in doubt and always something to prove.

[Seville Life]

Guys - regarding painting hoods and fenders (and lamp monitor housing/grill parts, these were painted next to each other, I have pictures of this post '65 when the new paint show was built on top of the Final Assembly building. It's a fact though that the entire body was painted at Fleetwood and we have to ask did they use the same supplier everyday/week/month that Cadillac did?

How much paint did each plant get through every day? Yikes that must have been a lot of paint and as someone here has already said when men (not machines) spray cars it's about distance, trigger use and the speed of the pass. I spray and I can tell you for example it's easy to make silver different shades. Any rich metallic colour must have been subject to possible slight variation.

While I agree in principle with you that these discussed changes SHOULD be in The Serviceman I know of some pretty big changes with my '78 Elegante that are either not mentioned or mentioned months later? The alteration to the exterior window surround I'm still trying to work out.

[wrefakis]

when you win 'best in show' with a worn out interior,no doubt the crowd will buy any twighlight zone tale you put out there
see you at GN 24 my last show