1950s 1955 Eldorado - Older electric wipers not working.

[Cadman-iac]

  Andy,
 I was just looking at your picture of the transmission with the drive end missing, and I noticed that it has a wear pattern on the surface from a thrust washer.
 Both of my 56's have a thick thrust washer right behind the drive "head"? not exactly sure what to call it, but before you have that welded back together, you will need to find that washer or the drive end will not sit high enough to engage the motor drive. There is only a small amount of engagement between the two anyway, so if the transmission side doesn't extend out far enough, it probably won't engage at all.

 Rick

[Lockhouse]

Hi Rick,

OK - firstly the easy bit. The thrust washer was welded back OK - no worries. It might look like a screw is cross threaded but they're all OK. For various reasons I ended up assembling the motor and pulley assembly off the car and fitting it as a unit - this enabled me to get the best fit and make sure there was no play in the motor\pulley connection.

Now, I've taken the driver's side transmission out of the car. It doesn't look like yours. There's no spring on the end. The manual lists the original part number as 4665776 or Trico 88141-5J. The only visible part number I can see is 87052-6 but there is a "5" stamped on the flange. See pics for more details.

Also - see the video here:

Should there be that much play in the shaft? If I push the end I can feel the adjustment spring load and return, but it's really tight and I have to use a lot of force to push it down. It feels like it's too tight to work if that makes any sense?

Thanks again,

Andy

[Cadman-iac]

  Hi Andy,
  Yours is definitely different than mine. Both sets I have are from 56's, so I know they are correct for the year. And since my 55 was missing the complete wiper system, I just assumed it would have been the same as the 56, my error there.
As for the amount of travel in your wiper shaft assembly, it's definitely more than what mine have, but I don't think it's a problem. What I see though, is it seems to move back and forth (up and down) too easily, at least that's how it appears in your video. After you release it, it looks like it doesn't return to the fully extended position like it should, which would leave the "clutch" disengaged and would account for the lack of movement of your wiper arm.
Your shaft does not have the splines on the end that the cap I was referring to would engage, so it obviously wasn't something that was used in 55.
The more I got to thinking about what purpose this big cap and spring serves, about all I could come up with is it's an assist spring to help raise the arms when they are at the outer edge of the windshield and you're traveling at speed with the wind pushing the arms downward. With the little bit of extra pressure the additional spring provides, it's enough to help out a vacuum wiper motor bring the arms back towards the center again.
But that's just conjecture on my part, since I haven't found anything about the design of the system anywhere.

In your case, I think you would be miles ahead to locate another shaft instead of trying to fix yours. About the only thing I can recommend to try before you replace it is to drill a small hole through the housing to enable you to spray some lubricant into it to try and get the shaft to free itself enough to apply pressure on the clutch again.
I will take a picture of mine and show you where I think you should drill. It must be behind the mounting brackets so it's inside the car and water won't get to it.
I'm not at home currently, but will be in about an hour or so, and I'll post a picture for you.

Rick

[Cadman-iac]

  Ok, first, here's the picture of my wiper shaft assembly and where I would drill a hole if I were going to try lubricating it.
There's a screwdriver tip right next to the dot I placed on the top of the housing for this purpose. I would do it on the top so that any lubricant you get into it won't just run back out that hole if it were on the bottom.
You may get some of it coming out around the bottom of the shaft anyway depending on how much clearance there is between the shaft and the bushing. If it's worn excessively, it will leak from the bottom anyhow. There are no seals on the shaft or housing.



Secondly, I guess there is supposed to be some back and forth travel of the shaft within the housing, independent of the adjustment travel. Here is a video of how mine moves, I just show the free travel on the whole shaft within the housing first, then I show the adjustment travel. You can also see the teeth on part of the cable-driven hub that is part of the clutch.
On mine, the adjustment travel is much harder to push, as it should be
I also used one that I had already rebuilt so I know it would show you the correct travel for each part of it.

Well now the system is not letting me upload the video. Something about the wrong type of file.
So I don't know how to get you the video. I shot it with my phone, but I have no idea what the problem is. It's only a 12-second video. Any suggestions?
Edit:
I just noticed that you used YouTube for your video, I don't have YouTube, so that explains why I can't post mine. I have sent a video through an email before. I had to send one to Roger Zimmermann on an Eldorado hub a few years ago, but I thought I had also posted it here. Gotta check that again.
Anyway, if you would like, I can email you the video. PM me your email address and I'll send it out.

Rick

Edit:  On this same line of thought, I  noticed that in your video you were only moving the shaft within the housing, once the shaft was at the bottom end of the free play travel, you didn't apply any further pressure to disengage the clutch, if there is any travel left for that. Have you tried to push the shaft past where it seems to stop when you are moving it back and forth like in the video? If so, it's probably shot and you need a new one.
If not, try pushing it down against the internal spring and see if the clutch pieces will separate from each other. It should be very obvious if it will.

[Cadman-iac]

  And thirdly, I  relied on my memory when I stated that the cables were not crossed on this setup. In checking my service manual to double check if there was any information about what this extra spring was for, I saw my hand written notes about how the cables were crossed for the drivers side, but not on the passenger side, so I caught myself lying again!
 I made that note because in order to use the Chevrolet motor, I have to cross the passenger side and uncross the drivers side, which is opposite of what Cadillac did.
 Ain't memory a wonderful thing? Lol!!

 Still didn't find anything about the spring though. Engineering notes are probably the only place you'll find that out, but I don't have access to those if they even exist anymore.

Rick

[Cadman-iac]

  Andy,
 I was just mulling over this problem, and another thought occurred to me that might make it easier when you go to put everything back together. 
 Because it's so difficult to get the cable ends into the center drive hub, (transmission), to make it a bit easier you can extend the cables from both shaft assemblies by pressing the shaft down to disengage the clutch and at the same time pull on both cables. This allows them to extend to their maximum length, allowing you more cable to work with when you're trying to reattach them to the center hub.
 Once they are all connected, after you make sure that the motor is in the park position, then before you attach the arms, press down the shaft again to re-tension the cables and center the shaft in relation to the hub.
 It's not much, but it'll help when you're working under the dash in low light and little room.

 Rick

[Lockhouse]

Hi Rick,

Well I think we're almost there. Great information Sir, pertinent and informative. Not just for me, but for those that come after.

I disassembled everything on the driver's side - it hadn't been apart in 20-25 years, not since the original restoration. I got the transmission on the bench and tried to free it up. Using large amounts of silicon lubricant and working it back and forth, I got it to loosen up and after about 10 mins it was working absolutely fine. Huge relief.

With my wife's help disengaging the wiper clutch, I reassembled everything. It's certainly tight under there. Turn the wipers on....

For five seconds it worked absolutely fine, then it lost tension and the wiper started making vague attempts at clearing the windshield in a very poor 5 degree arc. Oh well. At least the passenger wiper is working like a train.

I'm a positive person so it's been a reasonable week. The major fault with the wipers has been welded and fixed. This issue with the driver's side, the transmission needs to be replaced - I can't have the car off the road in show season, so will wait until a replacement arrives, dismantle everything again, and swap them over. I will take the old one apart eventually, if nothing else to understand how they work internally. In the UK though, it rains a lot, so operational wipers are unfortunately, an essential rather than an option.

I will post when the replacement arrives and is fitted - I'm putting the dashpad back for now though - there's a big cruise in South London next week. I'll be there, as long as it doesn't rain!

All the best,

Andy

p.s. Just about to post about my driver's door - that's next on the list!

[Cadman-iac]

  It may be that the lubricant has gotten onto the clutch portion and is causing the slippage now, but I kind of doubt it. It isn't a friction material, it's got teeth and tension that keeps them engaged, but they do have a slop to them in one direction, so that if the arm should hang up, then the teeth will jump across each other until tension no longer has the force to make the clutch operate.
I'm glad you have found a replacement, that will make it much quicker to get back on the road. And then you can play with your original piece and find out what is wrong with it.
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about how to take it apart. It's different, but not so much that it would matter. The 56 has more pieces to it, so your 55 should be fairly simple to do.

Enjoy your car show and happy motoring.

  Rick

[35-709]

One alternative if it does rain (apply before it rains) - Rain-X.  If you have never used it, you may be pleasantly surprised at how well it works and what a bother those silly wipers are!   

[Lockhouse]

One alternative if it does rain (apply before it rains) - Rain-X.  If you have never used it, you may be pleasantly surprised at how well it works and what a bother those silly wipers are! 

I've got Rain-X outside and Rain-X anti-mist inside! That's part of the UK Cadillac survival kit.

[35-709]

 

[Cadman-iac]

 Yep!! Good stuff that Rain-X. And on a new glass it's absolutely amazing.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Andrew, it's unfortunate for us both: I have a set wiper transmissions for 1954  and a NOW wiper transmission for early 1956 cars with the part number #4687622 which is the small outside diameter like 1954 and 55. Later 1956 cars had a pulley with a larger diameter like Rick is showing.
I'm attaching the pictures from my '56 part; I have no idea if you could use it on your car.

[Lockhouse]

Hi Roger,

Thank you greatly for the photos. That is so close! My 4665776 is a Trico 88141-5J and your 4687622 is a Trico 88141-8J. They look identical apart from the small ring under the ferrule at the top but it's probable mine has been damaged at some time and that's been lost. Are they the same? I have no idea but probably not worth the risk of sending to the UK unless there's a Trico catalog or expert that can explain the difference. I actually exchanged emails with Trico Support this week saying if they have the catalogs from way back when they should put them online and what a great reference that would be but they apparently "no longer have that information".

Best regards,

Andy

[Roger Zimmermann]

Well Andy, if I had a '55 system I could compare. Basically the 1954 to 1956 body is the same but sometimes there are modifications which prevent the cross usage. I could take 100 pictures from that transmission, looking identical to the '55 and, the moment to install it, there is a "something" which is in the way!
On the other side, shipping to England is not that costly: 250 grams are costing 9 CHF or 0.5 kg are costing 14 CHF ( the exchange rate is 1.11 CHF for 1 £). I set the price many moons ago to CHF 120.00, but I'm ready to sell it for half that amount, gone is gone!

[Cadman-iac]

 Roger,
 Thanks for the information, I was unaware that the difference was a mid-year design change. The book wouldn't happen to explain what the additional spring on the 2nd design is for would it?
 Very interesting though, regardless.
 Thanks for jumping in.

 Rick

[Roger Zimmermann]

Tha master parts list is always interesting to look at!
The '54 cars had the Trico number 88140/41-4, '55 models 88140/41-5J, the early '56 had 88140/41-8J before engine number 76135 and after engine 76134 88140/41-11J.
1954/55 wiper transmissions had a cost of $ 6.00; early and late '56 had a price of $ 8.95.
The early '56 had in addition a tension washer and a "C" ring; don't ask what it is, I don't know!

[Cadman-iac]

  I know that there's a wave washer or spring washer under the cap and spring piece that is on mine. I think it's purpose is to keep the cap from rattling when the wipers are operating, but that's just my best guess.
 All very interesting information, so now I know what I have fits just half of the 56's out there.
  Thanks Roger,

Rick

[Roger Zimmermann]

All very interesting information, so now I know what I have fits just half of the 56's out there.
  Thanks Roger,

Rick, as there was no change to the body, you can certainly sell the later transmissions for a car with the smaller pullies. Of course as a pair only!

[Lockhouse]

Well Andy, if I had a '55 system I could compare. Basically the 1954 to 1956 body is the same but sometimes there are modifications which prevent the cross usage. I could take 100 pictures from that transmission, looking identical to the '55 and, the moment to install it, there is a "something" which is in the way!
On the other side, shipping to England is not that costly: 250 grams are costing 9 CHF or 0.5 kg are costing 14 CHF ( the exchange rate is 1.11 CHF for 1 £). I set the price many moons ago to CHF 120.00, but I'm ready to sell it for half that amount, gone is gone!

Hi Roger, much as I'm tempted, let me see if I can get an original - there's a NOS for sale but it's a little more expensive - if it doesn't come to anything I will definitely be back in touch - thanks very much for the offer - be good if someone knew the difference between a 5J and an 8J though!

Best regards,

Andy