1960s Water in oil

[60eldo]

  Here we go again. So yesterday I changed my oil and water came out the drain plug 1st for about 7 seconds followed by oil, not good, changed it anyway. Today checked oil water on dipstick.  Checked all plugs they are good, but did see 1 frost plug leeking, what now please.   

[Chopper1942]

I would get some coolant dye, fill the cooling system, run the engine until normal operating temperature, shut the engine off, and let it cool down. Get a cooling system pressure tester and pump it up to 20 psi. Pull the plugs and let it set. After the pressure drops to about 0 psi, remove the pressure tester and use a starter jumper switch to spin over the engine. Have someone help so you can watch each side at once.

See if any coolant comes out of a cylinder. If it does, pull the head and look at the head gasket for obvious signs of coolant leakage. If none, have the head checked for cracks.


If no coolant comes out of a spark plug hole, pull the drain plug and see if you get any coolant out of the pan. If you do, you have a more serious problem. It's most likely the timing cover leaking or worse a cracked block.

Now pull the oil pan, pressurize the cooling system, and with a black light look for a yellow trace  line or coolant dripping. This will tell you if it's the timing cover or a more serious issue.  If it's the timing cover, get a steel timing gear and chain set and install it.

[signart]

As noted previously, an intake gasket leak can result in this as well, also the crud in your cooling system.

[V63]

As noted previously, an intake gasket leak can result in this as well, also the crud in your cooling system.

This may not apply here if he has a 1960 390,

there is no water flow designed into the intake manifold.

[signart]

This may not apply here if he has a 1960 390,

there is no water flow designed into the intake manifold.

That would eliminate that entry of contamination and leave the scenario stated in Choppers post.
I still think oil entering into the cooling system is resulting in the sludge in the radiator.

[Poncholover]

Sounds like head gasket time...If you are lucky!

[60eldo]

You no this engine is tired. Ive had the car for 5 yrs now. Leaks oil, oil on 1 spark plug that I have to clean once a week. 1 frost plug leeking, broken crankshaft bolt, harmonic balance has slipped, and now water in my oil. But it still runs good.  Should just rebuild, Yu think?

[Lexi]

Yes, rebuild time. Why wait for the hammer to fall and have what is otherwise a running engine perhaps suffer a catastrophic failure. You could attempt all of the repairs yourself if so inclined but a rebuild if done correctly offers peace of mind. Clay/Lexi

[Chopper1942]

If you are oil fouling a plug that often, you have a serious ring/piston issue on that cylinder. May have scored cylinder walls. If you are up to it, pull the engine and tear it down at least pull the heads to check the cylinders and piston on the hole burning oil. If the cyl wall is scored, contact a competent machine shop and have them inspect the engine and give you an estimate for a rebuild. Have the heads and block magnafluxed for cracks. This will be expensive.

If you think you can tear the engine completely down, mark the con rods & caps, main caps, keep the push rods and lifters in order so they go back where you took them out. You will probably have to cut the ring ridge out of the cylinders to remove the pistons. Put short pieces of fuel line on the rod bolts before you push the pistons out. this will keep you from damaging the crank.

If the block and heads can be rebuilt. I would install a new cam and lifters. Have the rocker pads machined as well.

[jwwseville60]

Please get advice on a good machine shop in your area. It's a dying business.
The rebuild kits (China?) have had different sized parts for my 2 rebuilds.
Be advised you should weigh and measure every single part.

[James Landi]

You could have a leaking oil cooling circuit  in your radiator IF your model has an engine oil cooler --do you see oil in the coolant??? (once the engine cools down, the oil will gradually flow into the coolant. Here's an important test before you do anything else: Open up your radiator cap start the engine and look for a stream of bubbles  (if you see bubbles, the issues might include a bad head gasket, a cracked cyclinder head, or  warped surfaces where the head the block meet... another "certain way" to test for compression related coolant leaks into the cyclinders ---purchase a cardon monoxcide coolant test kit that identifies ccarbon monoxcide in the cooling system. If you have compression leakage, you're clearly due for a tear down--there's no known easy"cure" .    HOWEVER, if  your issue is associated with a leak that is NOT associated with the combustion chambers, some magic block sealer may "fix" your issue.  Needless to say, this kind of fix won't work for combustion leaks.  But if, as you say, the engine runs acceptably well for your purposes (assuming youre not taking the car for extended road trips), using this magic potion will serve to keep the coolant out of a small gasket leaks or imperfect seals. I also suggest  that you purchase an coolant acidity test kit.  Many of us have been fooled by thinking lovely green coolant is good coolant--- old coolant can turn highly acidic, thus causing freeze out plugs and internal gaskets to leak.   Hope this helps, James   Please keep us in the loop.   

[60eldo]

  Yes I did see foam, bubbles in rad that I never saw before. So I flushed out the system added new anti freeze and changed the oil, and put in blue devil block sealer. Seems ok so far, Im monitering it everyday, see if coolant level goes down. And checking oil. Will let u no what happens. This all started when I put prestone anti freeze in rad, Yellow says for all makes and models. Car over heated shortly after. Should I call prestone?

[Chopper1942]

Well, you definitely have oil in the coolant. Been nice to know from the start. James Landi is probably correct if you have an oil cooler in the radiator.

The reason for the cross contamination is when the engine is running, the oil pressure is considerably higher that the cooling system pressure, so the oil is forced into the radiator.  When the engine is shut off, the cooling system pressure is now higher, since you have 0 psi oil pressure. The coolant is pushed into the oil cooler or crack/leak in the engine, and into the engine oil pan.

Basically, you need the radiator cleaned and rebuilt with a new cooler, all the cooling system hoses replaced, heater core cleaned and flushed, and as I stated before with the oil fouling, the engine needs rebuilt.

A lot of work and expense, but once it is done, you will have a nice running driver.

[James Landi]

  "Yes I did see foam, bubbles in rad that I never saw before. So I flushed out the system added new anti freeze and changed the oil, and put in blue devil block sealer. Seems ok so far, Im monitering it everyday, see if coolant level goes down. And checking oil. Will let u no what happens. This all started when I put prestone anti freeze in rad, Yellow says for all makes and models. Car over heated shortly after. Should I call prestone?"

My suggestion: to entirely clarify the problem, buy one of those carbon monoxcide coolant test kits that identifies the nature of those bubbles: carbon monoxcide in the oil (test kit)--- that's the worse case, and if that is so, then spending ANY more resources on trying to fix the problem is a waste--- you'll simply have to take the engine apart or purchase a good, used engine.  Larry Lamb put a sharper point on the possibility of other radiator induced issues, and if that's the case, getting a replacement radiator as he suggests would be the beginning of a "patch" to keep you going. But then, if the test kit indicates a leak OTHER than a COMPRESSION leak, putting on a new radiator may get you on the road for a while--- how do you address all of the gunk that's clogging up the cooling passages in the engine?  And with a new radiator attached, won't some of that collected gunk clog your new radiator? (there are cooling system filters)  Youare at the stage what I call, "The might as wells..."  The "S" indicates all of the other expensive fixes, replacements, that occur when you begin to disturb the engine and drive train.... In a car this old, it's NEVER just a new engine.... 

[60eldo]

 Dont have oil cooler in the rad. Ive never heard of one. Only lines that go into the rad are trans lines. Drove car today, its running perfect ,and no water in oil. Also Im watching rad level,,,,no change its good, no foam. Must be the block sealer.

[Chopper1942]

The oil will soften the hoses and cause them to start degenerating and putting rubber particles in the cooling system and the hoses will burst under pressure.  You may be able to clean and flush the cooling system several times to get the oil out of it, but that will remove the sealer and start the leaking all over again. If you only have a trans cooler in the radiator, check the trans fluid to see if it is milky or discolored that may be where the oil in the radiator is coming from. Drop the trans oil pan or if it has a drain plug, drain the oil into a glass bottle and let it set. See if water separates out of the ATF.

You could have two separate issues, besides the worn out engine. If it is engine oil getting into the radiator and coolant into the engine oil, the most likely source, unless there is a cracked block or head, is a head gasket leaking pressurized oil the goes to the rocker assemblies. The rockers are supplied oil from around the four head bolts that retain the rocker stands. A head gasket leaking in that are could cause the fluids to transfer.

You still need the engine rebuilt. The fouled cylinder is only going to get worse and continuing to drive the car may cause much more catastrophic damage.

[James Landi]

 "Dont have oil cooler in the rad. Ive never heard of one. Only lines that go into the rad are trans lines. Drove car today, its running perfect ,and no water in oil. Also Im watching rad level,,,,no change its good, no foam. Must be the block sealer."

 Jon,
Pleased to hear this news...so you;ll keep a close watch on the coolant,oil, and leaks, and you'll drive the car near your home, not push the engine revs, and enjoy what's left of the nice fall weather.  As my father used to say to me, his young son, "James, if you're looking for trouble,you'll find it."  Enjoy your car.   James

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Dont have oil cooler in the rad. Ive never heard of one. Only lines that go into the rad are trans lines. Drove car today, its running perfect ,and no water in oil. Also Im watching rad level,,,,no change its good, no foam. Must be the block sealer.

G'day Jon,

Sorry, but you do have an oil cooler in the radiator.   It cools the Automatic Transmission fluid.   But, these rarely ever give strife, as they are a low pressure, flow through unit.

Bruce.

[Roger Zimmermann]

G'day Jon,

Sorry, but you do have an oil cooler in the radiator.   It cools the Automatic Transmission fluid.   But, these rarely ever give strife, as they are a low pressure, flow through unit.

However, Bruce, they can leak! If they do, the water is going into the transmission, not the engine.

[V63]

1973 GM models had a particular issue with this and it was by coincidence? with the new regulations on ATF and whale oils.

They were called 'mixers' and the transmission fluid would get in the water and worse the water got into the transmission...ruining it.

I had personal knowledge of this issue with a 73 Buick estate wagon, 73 deville and 73 delta 88 Royal. All while the vehicles were reasonably new... approx 1975