1950s Cracked Kelsey Hayes turbine wheel

[J. Skelly]

I found several postings on the Detroit-area Facebook Marketplace:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/112423512103789/search?query=Sabre%20wheels

[Lexi]

Lexi, let me ponder a bit and see what is available, if anything. It appears through looking at other photos of the 57 rim that the tire attaches to the inner steel rim. Do you and everyone think it would be ok to drive on until another is purchased?

That is sound reasoning. I would spend time looking for the proper rim. Also, based on the appearance of yours, the one I have appears not as pristine-so not a good match. Finding one of these rims as a single and in condition that is consistent with yours will take some time. Not sure about the safety aspect of driving yours. Perhaps a solid tire shop could provide an opinion once they have physically inspected it. Clay/Lexi

[Lexi]

Almost forgot to answer your other question, but I beleive the '57 Sabre does have the tire seat on the steel portion of the rim. The first Sabres in 1955 used a different means of production and assembly. There were issues experienced by some owners. Long story short, in 1956 Cadillac went to the so-called "clad" design where the outer aluminum Sabre was clad to an inner steel rim. I have not read that changed in 1957*, as the clad design proved to work well. As a result, the crack in your outer aluminum shell is probably not much if any of a factor, but I cannot guarantee that. Best to have a competant tire shop examine. Clay/Lexi

*Edit: Though as previously noted a '56 Sabre will not fit over the front drums of a '57. So that design element did change. Somewhere I have exploded views of these rims and post images if it helps.

[Cadman-iac]

  Bill,
Judging from the picture, the length of that crack looks to be at least 8 inches long. If that's the case I would not use it until it's repaired or replaced. The danger is that it still has pressure on it from the tires air pressure, and each time that section is on the ground the weight of the car adds more pressure. This can possibly cause the crack to expand, and much more  and it's going to break with disastrous results.
Remember that lip is what keeps the tire on the wheel.  And also, if the tire bead has any imperfections along the inside, or bottom edge, air that can get past that portion is usually stopped by the sides of the bead, provided the wheel is good. The air can escape through the crack if the bead should leak, and if that happens while you are driving,.....

Rick

 Edit: I'm basing this on the wheel being all aluminum.  If it's designed like Clay has mentioned, then this is less likely.  Hope this helps.

[Lexi]

Edit: I'm basing this on the wheel being all aluminum.  If it's designed like Clay has mentioned, then this is less likely.  Hope this helps.

I am inclined to agree, however, the '56 rim/wheel is not all aluminum though as Cad-maniac surmised. In '56 GM used a steel rim which I believe on it's own you could theoretcially mount a tubeless tire to. Rather than use hubcaps, the Sabre rim employed an added aluminum outer decorative shell to dress up the wheel. I am not sure whether it was also intended to be functional at all, and might be there just for looks. If...if... it provides additional stability to repel the force of an inflated tire, then continued driving could eventually end with disasterous results as Rick noted, should the inner steel rim be lighter in duty than regular steel '56 rims. Time permitting I could try to mic my spare steel '56 rims and compare to a Sabre from that same year. If the same, it would appear that the "clad style" '56 Sabre rim is more for looks, though I would add that it may further bolster the steel rim inside. But if these steel inner rims are consistent with non Sabre steel '56 rims, there should in theory be no problems. The issue with '55 Sabres is half of them internally were aluminum and half steel-the so-called "split rim" design. Probably not as strong which may explain why my research indicated that there were 2 types of '55 Sabres, each having a different number of internal rivets, (air leak problems were noted early on). Probably too much "twist" and other stress that apparently caused air leaks. Yes, I know others have not had problems with their '55 split rim style wheels, (maybe theirs were the later type-different rivet count?) but others not so fortunate. When doing my research I found no data on "2 types of '55 rims". Probably a secret kept by Cadillac to protect their brand. Probably why in '55 NO Sabres were offered for Series 75 cars, but in '56 they were. Again, my guess is that they were made stronger, with 75s having their own part number. That said, still best to have a tire expert inspect. See attached images of a 1956 Sabre rim assembled and apart. If Gary elects to purchase a '56 chrome Sabre or a '55, (same fitment over the drums), I would avoid buying a '55 for the reasons provided. Hope all this makes sense. Clay/Lexi

[Roger Zimmermann]

The issue with '55 Sabres is half of them internally were aluminum and half steel-the so-called "split rim" design. Probably not as strong which probably explains why my research indicates that there were 2 types of '55 Sabres, each having a different number of internal rivets

It's what I tried to explain in my previous message. Obviously, you can explain facts better than me!

[Cadman-iac]

  Bill,
 Since the wheel is made in 2 pieces as Clay has shown, the repair can still be difficult. It all depends on how you want it done.
 It can be ground out and welded, then machined, but if it's been chromed from the factory, it may have to be taken apart in order to be re-chromed.
 If it's just highly polished, then no, it wouldn't need to be taken apart.
 Just something to consider if you decide to get it fixed.

 Rick

[Lexi]

It's what I tried to explain in my previous message. Obviously, you can explain facts better than me!

But you are at least bilingual Roger. I can only communicate in English, though the wife says I am bilingual as I speak both English and profanity, (sometimes).    Clay/Lexi

[Gary Evans]

Thank you gentleman for taking the time to help me understand the situation. I think I'll head over to the wanted section, place an add, and see what if anything is available. I sill may take lexi up on his generous offer, but would like to have 4 matching. Bill Evans

Also, if anyone has a single 41098, please message me.

[Lexi]

Thank you gentleman for taking the time to help me understand the situation. I think I'll head over to the wanted section, place an add, and see what if anything is available. I sill may take lexi up on his generous offer, but would like to have 4 matching. Bill Evans

Also, if anyone has a single 41098, please privately email at bevans67@hotmail.

Hello Gary. Not sure how versed you are in this CLC Forum, but as of May 1st outsiders (non-CLC members) will be restricted from posting on this site, but you will still be able to read it. Don't see a CLC # beside your name. So presumeably if your ad is running at that time you will not be able to respond to those who may have a part for you, via a post in this Forum. Perhaps your father is a member? Think they are asking $25 for a yearly membership. If Dad and/or the family plans on keeping the car, you may want to consider joining. Another member recently said that this Forum is "The best tool in the toolchest". Clay/Lexi

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Don't forget that posting your email address for all to see is asking for Spammers to contact you, as many have found out.

Bruce.

[Cadman-iac]

I am bilingual as I speak both English and profanity, (sometimes).    Clay/Lexi

 Lol!! I gotta remember that one. My wife will get a kick out of it.

[Lexi]

Lol!! I gotta remember that one. My wife will get a kick out of it.

I can't take credit for that one. If memory serves, it was the Canadian Hockey great Gordie Howie (of the Detroit Red Wings), who was quoted as saying that. Not sure if he borrowed it from someone else. Clay/Lexi

[Lexi]

Thank you gentleman for taking the time to help me understand the situation. I think I'll head over to the wanted section, place an add, and see what if anything is available. I sill may take lexi up on his generous offer, but would like to have 4 matching. Bill Evans

Also, if anyone has a single 41098, please privately email at.....

Gary I wrote down your email in case you decide to delete it due to spammer idiots. In time they will be all over you like a cheap suit. Check the comments above posted by the Moderator. That nonsense is one of the main reasons for the CLC Forum restrictions that will be taking effect May 1st. Sad to say.  Clay/Lexi

[Roger Zimmermann]

But you are at least bilingual Roger. I can only communicate in English, though the wife says I am bilingual as I speak both English and profanity, (sometimes).    Clay/Lexi

I can that too. And I can understand/speak German too!