1960s 1960 CdV questions (electrical and A/C )

[bigoilman]

New (to me) '60 coupe and have a couple of questions.
1. Power windows work ALL THE TIME. Key in/out and position have no effect. Google search led me to information that might be normal prior to the early 60s? Is it?  If not, is there a common failure point that I should investigate first before I start chasing circuits?

2.A/C is inop.  All components are there and from receipts I see that is was converted from an A5 to and A6 compressor back in 1990. Having never owned one of these before: Did the A/C work well when 100% operational?  I live on the Mississippi Gulf Coast and working A/C is mandatory to me. I have a friend who is an Old Air dealer and I'm aware of their Pro6ten compressor and OEM style A6 too. Not worried about 100% OEM correct as long as it works well, but appearing original would be a nice bonus on a car this clean.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Regarding the Power Windows, from memory, they operate at all times, and are protected by a Circuit Breaker and receive power from the Chassis Harness.

Those days, the Ignition Switches were basic.   Plus, not much thought to passenger and child safety.

Bruce. 

[Big Fins]

Yes, as noted on the windows. They are hot all the time. I'm pretty sure that went all the way up to 1966 with an ignition bypass switch on the master control panel.

I have the Pro6Ten compressor on my car, along with the VIR bypass system and a parallel flow condensor. It puts out beautifully cold air. 42^oF at the vents. You may want to charge the system with I believe it's Nitrogen to check for any leaks before putting money into it. Those more knowledgeable that I will chime in with the correct answer.

There may be a pinhole in one of the hard parts or a line or even an O-ring that went bad. It can be brought back to R-12 with a lot of work and component flushing.

[bigoilman]

Yes, as noted on the windows. They are hot all the time. I'm pretty sure that went all the way up to 1966 with an ignition bypass switch on the master control panel.

I have the Pro6Ten compressor on my car, along with the VIR bypass system and a parallel flow condensor. It puts out beautifully cold air. 42^oF at the vents. You may want to charge the system with I believe it's Nitrogen to check for any leaks before putting money into it. Those more knowledgeable that I will chime in with the correct answer.

There may be a pinhole in one of the hard parts or a line or even an O-ring that went bad. It can be brought back to R-12 with a lot of work and component flushing.

Thanks. I plan to replace EVERYTHING in the A/C system.  No interest in the cost/lack of availability of R12.  Will convert to R134 (or whatever is currently legal LOL). A bigger condenser will usually overcome the inefficiency of R134.

I assume these cars aren't well insulated but I'm not going to disassemble one this clean to add it (for now).
 

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

....I assume these cars aren't well insulated but I'm not going to disassemble one this clean to add it (for now).   

They are very well insulated.   The glass is thick, and the roof has good insulation between the headlining and the metal.

When I drove my own '60 CDV (Non A/C) between Melbourne and Adelaide years ago, in over 42 Degrees Celsius, (107.6 Fahrenheit) I found it far better to drive with the windows closed and all vents shut to keep the heat out.   My car had the eze-eye tinted glass.   I tried opening the window early in the day, but that made driving really uncomfortable.

Bruce.

[David Greenburg]

I have a'60 running an A6 compressor and R134, and it is plenty cold when properly charged. Starting out on hot days, the interior gets cold faster than my modern daily driver. These old GM systems may be heavy and inefficient, but they do the job.

[bigoilman]

I have a'60 running an A6 compressor and R134, and it is plenty cold when properly charged. Starting out on hot days, the interior gets cold faster than my modern daily driver. These old GM systems may be heavy and inefficient, but they do the job.

Couple of questions:
Did you install a larger condenser and/or a parallel flow condenser?
Did you do away with the hot gas bypass setup?
Any more detail you can provide is appreciated.

[bigoilman]

Yes, as noted on the windows. They are hot all the time. I'm pretty sure that went all the way up to 1966 with an ignition bypass switch on the master control panel.

I have the Pro6Ten compressor on my car, along with the VIR bypass system and a parallel flow condensor. It puts out beautifully cold air. 42^oF at the vents. You may want to charge the system with I believe it's Nitrogen to check for any leaks before putting money into it. Those more knowledgeable that I will chime in with the correct answer.

There may be a pinhole in one of the hard parts or a line or even an O-ring that went bad. It can be brought back to R-12 with a lot of work and component flushing.

Well, after a discussion with a friend who's kept some R12 systems going over the years, he made me aware the R12 isn't nearly as expensive or as hard to find as I thought. Sooo....I'm gonna put a belt on this beast and see what she does, then try to pull a vaccum.

[David Greenburg]

My install used the original condenser. I think the hot gas bypass was removed, as there is a major line capped off by the generator, but I don't have much a/c experience and had the work done by an old car a/c expert 9-10 years ago, so I don't have/remember a lot of details. At least from a maintenance perspective I've been fortunate that most of my old cars have not had a/c.

[TJ Hopland]

At this stage of the game it may not be long before R134a could become harder and more expensive to get than R12.   Its been what 30 years now since cars switched from R12 so a lot of those cars are long gone just due to time.  In the later 90's R12 got stupid expensive so many people converted to 134a so even fewer R12 cars out there so that's why its not crazy now.   

[bigoilman]

Got a belt on the compressor today and then realized how badly out of alignment the compressor is with the pulleys.  It was converted from an A5 to an A6 back in 1990 (found the receipts) and the shop that did it fabricated "adapters" to mount it. I'm wondering if they installed it wrong or maybe a subsequent removal/reinstall was done wrong. There's no way it'll keep a belt on the way it is now.

Anyone got some clear pics of what the A5 to A6 conversion is supposed to look like (bracket-wise).  The stock front and rear brackets are still in place on my car, so that's good.  See pics.

[bigoilman]

I have a'60 running an A6 compressor and R134, and it is plenty cold when properly charged. Starting out on hot days, the interior gets cold faster than my modern daily driver. These old GM systems may be heavy and inefficient, but they do the job.

Could you post or send pics of your compressor and its brackets front and rear?

[bigoilman]

David Greenburg was nice enough to send me pics of his A6 setup so I'm adding his pics here. Biggest difference I see so far is that mine aren't made from thick enough material and possibly the front bracket installed incorrectly.  I'll reposition everything and check belt alignment again if I determine this system is salvageable.
Thanks again, David.

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

From what I see in your pictures, you just need to add spacers 9flat washers) to move the compressor forward a bit. Regarding the refrigerant issue, it seems from the picture that the system has already been changed (I hate the erroneous term converted) to R-134a. Your hot gas bypass valve is the intended means of temperature control. If this has been left intact and functioning that is the best means of control for your original system.
Greg Surfas

[bigoilman]

Thanks. Yes, it was changed to R134 in 1990 (per receipts that came with).  Not sure how long it's been inop. If it'll hold a vacuum I'll keep it. If it was installed this way, there's no way it didn't throw the belt.  Could be that's why it wasn't in use.  We'll find out.

Hot gas bypass system is intact and the controls function.  Don't know about the diaphragms but I see rebuild kits are available for them.

[bigoilman]

From what I see in your pictures, you just need to add spacers 9flat washers) to move the compressor forward a bit. Regarding the refrigerant issue, it seems from the picture that the system has already been changed (I hate the erroneous term converted) to R-134a. Your hot gas bypass valve is the intended means of temperature control. If this has been left intact and functioning that is the best means of control for your original system.
Greg Surfas

I don't know why I said it had been switched to R134A, all indications are that it's still R12 (if it had any refrigerant in it, LOL) but was "updated" from an A5 to an A6 compressor back in 1990. 

[David Greenburg]

Happy to help where I can, but Greg is the a/c expert.

[Roger Zimmermann]

A label on the compressor can be misleading: on the compressor from my '72 CdV, I have a similar label but indeed, the system is running with the R-134 refrigerant.