I agree with Bob Lutz

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Not so fast!!!!!

There used to be a procedure here in Australia where one could obtain a Doctors Certificate to allow the non-use of the Seat Belt because of medical conditions, but the medical fraternity have now stopped doing this, as they have found that any form of protection is better than none, even considering the medical condition of the occupants of the vehicle.

It must be remembered that over here in Australia, the use of the combined Lap/Sash Restraints have been mandatory since 1969 in various seating positions, and the American type belts where the Lap and the Sash can be unbuckles and worn separately are banned.   One either wears a complete Lap/Sash Belt, or doesnt get carried in a car without getting booked.  

Also, all our belts here are of the Retracting/Inertia type and therefore are always at the correct tension, just in case of an accident.   If you leave the belt slightly loose, then it would probably result in more injuries than none at all, as the body has the chance to move further before it is instantaniouslt restrained by the loose belt, and then can still move all over the place till the movement ceases.

The idea of just hanging it over the shoulder to make it look like the belt is being worn is only fooling yourself.

As you can see, I am very consious of road safety, having seen the aftereffects of thousands of accidents, including hundreds of fatalities, and believe me, the seat belt has saved many more that it has killed or maimed.

Getting back to the subject at hand, the Auto Industry is selling something that the masses want, and, if something isnt good enough, the masses will buy a different vehicle that suits them and the unproductive maker will go under.   Masses will become unemployed, bosses will have their pension, because they will have seen the writing on the wall, and jumped ship first, and the Government will be left to pay unemployment benefits out of the taxes that they will have to increase from you, the buyers.

The Old Car Industry will still survive because there is a market for the supply of parts, and you will notice that the Major Auto Manufacturers arent supplying those parts because they want to see these cars off the roads, and everyone buying their new product.

I think the only reason Henry Ford continued building the Model T for so long was that as sooon as he realised he had actually put as many people into his car as he could, then was the time to change the shape so he could sell more.   A bit like the VW.   One can only build something simple until the masses see that there is something being built that is better and more comfortable than the Old Reliable.

Phew,

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

P.S.   Denise, I am truely sorry that you are still crook, but had you ever thought of going back to upgrading your older car to use as everyday transport?   No Computers, reliable mechanics, etc. etc.

[Rhino 21150]

Why not so fast? Must we ALL put up with the edicts of doddering old men? By that I mean Congress Critters, not the Tassie. Playing fair, must we also put up with the edicts of doddering old women Congress Critters?
Seriously, Densie lives in Arizona and if the law there lets her off the hook, so be it. Granted it isnt the best idea to not wear belts, but I am also exempt. I am a paperboy!
I have a very nice cushion on my steering wheel. NO air bag, its a 94, the one EVERYONE derided, the Cavalier.
You want I should maybe deliver papers in a 1938 La Salle?
I could also get a doctors note if I needed one. And I wouldnt hesitate, I dont need one yet. USE the law to your advantage. It wasnt written with your safety or well being in mind. It was written with your COMPLIANCE in mind. If it was your safety they worried about they would give you a jail sentence to insure  you obey. They take your money instead. Hmmm.
As for safety, I am designing a permanent arm attached to the console of my Toyota van so that I can just slip behind it at the wheel and be as safe as though I was wearing a belt. The concept may be too clever by half, so dont go looking for pics anytime soon. It would be a royal pain to do the same in the Cavalier.

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Gday Rhino,

I understand where you are coming from, but, arent your Congress persons elected by the majority to sit in Congress and make educated, or personal decisions on the electors behalf?

If a law needs changing, then Lobby the members.   Too many people just "Sit on the Fence".

When you design the permanent arm in the Toyota, you had better move EVERYTHING that you might need whilst seated in the position that you decide upon to sit, within easy reach.

With my Dragsters, EVERYTHING was within easy reach whilst belted in tight.   The only way to fly.

And, Whatever happened to Paperboys on bicycles, or worse still, on foot.   Gotta get exercise.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le), (who loves getting the paper delivered before breakfast),
60 CDV

[Randall McGrew CLC # 17963]

No you are not an idiot....and your point(s) are very well taken.  Thank you.
I may have jumped the gun (not unusual for me).  I hope you did not take my comments poorly.  

Yes, the 77 Eldorado is a very comfortable car.   I prefer a stiffer seat like in the 1960 or 1956 cars but the Eldo was such a good deal I could not pass it up.

For $1950 I was able to secure a beautiful, and original 1977 Eldorado Biarritz with a nearly, complete interior (two small splits in the leather) with all of the options in excellent working order.  The only thing aside from maintenance that I have done is replace the fender fillers on the front.  The rears come next (and the vinyl landau roof must be redone and the paint too but I may leave that for the next owner).

 Of course, other expenses continually run the price up, but in comparison to the new price, interest rates, and in spite of the warrenty, those are cheap in comparison.  I cannot afford a new car let alone a comparable car.  In 1977 that Eldorado was to most expensive car on the lot topping $18K with Tax, Title and Dealer Screw (as Jonathan says).

No matter how I look at it....low initial price, generally available parts and relatively ease in repair, including a roomy and comfortable interior...I can live with the cost of gas.  Even insurance is low for this car.

I really like this car.  Someday I will sell it once my 56 is done, I will sell it to a CLC member who will enjoy it.  Until that time you all can bet I will take care of it as best as I can.    

[Sue]

Bruce,
Someone sent this to me last week, I dont know if it is true but could be.....

*Can you imagine working for a company that has a little more than 500 employees and has the following statistics:**

29 have been accused of spousal abuse
7 have been arrested for fraud
19 have been accused of writing bad checks
117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
3 have done time for assault
71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
8 have been arrested for shoplifting
21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year

Can you guess which organization this is?

Give up yet?

**Its the 535 members of the United States Congress.

The same group of Idiots that crank out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us in line.

[George]

Surely this cant be true. You will tell us next Elvis was a junkie.

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Sue,

Nothing would surprise me with what goes on within the portals of power, and those statistics are the only ones that have been brought to light.

And, yes, I have seen the list before, and was surprised that they would still be able to hold their positions.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV.

P.S.   Elvis never commanded, or even travelled on a Chinese Junk as far as I know, so he couldnt have been a Junkie.

[Todd Rothrauff]

Hmmmm,

Here are some things to think about when entering this subject with such a vague statement.

My 1996 Mark VIII will out-accelerate, out-corner, out-brake, and generally out-perform most 1960s and 1970s vehicles.  However, it will do this while emitting far less pollutants, and drinking much less fuel than ANY vehicle from that era.  It will also do this without adjusting the carb and/or timing and changing the points/cap/rotor every 10K - 15K miles.

In the mid-Eighties, my 1985 Oldsmobile 442 would run the quarter mile in 16.3 seconds.  This car was relatively quick for the era.  A brand new Honda Oddessy minivan will run the quarter in 16.4.

And, at the extremely high end of the buying spectrum that most of us will never experience, vehicles like the Porsche Carrera GT, Ferrari Enzo, and Saleen S7 will out-perform most 1960s and 1970s RACE CARS.  And, they will do this while meeting current emission standards, and with a manufacturers warranty.

Please dont get me wrong.  I love old cars as much as everyone else on these boards.  But, as someone who works on new cars on a daily basis, it gets to me when I here comments that refer to new cars as unreliable or junk, when I know for a fact that they are not.

Thanks for listening,

Todd

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Yes, I agree with you Todd, all the way, and even the newer cars are far safer than the older cars, but the older cars do have a thing that the new cars dont have, and that is Style.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[Ed Dougher]

When the master cylinder on my 79 Coupe de Ville went bad, I went to AutoZone and bought a rebuilt one for a whopping $13, bench bled it right on the car, bled the lines, and was good to go.    

I had to replace the starter on that car, as well, which cost me a whopping $35, and I installed it in my driveway.

Ive heard that replacing a starter on a Northstar is a major, very expensive job (I heard $800-$900) because so much has to be disassembled to get to it.

I also remember that when the electronically controlled shocks on a friends 90s Eldo went bad, it was a $900 job to replace 2 shocks!!!  Luckily, it was still under warranty.  I wont go into the throttle sticking open due to a bad throttle position sensor.

Need I say more?  Its that old story about the multi-million dollar NASA space pen and the Russians using a pencil!

[Porter 21919]

For the owner out of warranty.

Okay, know we can all wax eloquently about how much better they are than our older cars that can be repaired affordably.

Father time and rust always wins but why make cars that cost an arm and a leg for basic repairs, that will always be needed eventually ? Oh , they rustproof them better now and use SS exhaust systems, about time.

Who needs $900 computerized shock absorbers and $ 2,000 circuit board dashboards ?

The eventual collison that activates the air bags after five years will total the car easily.

$1,000 a throw for an air bag, not like you dont pay for them up front either.

I really question these air bags when Nascar drivers use belted harnesses and walk away from 100 mph plus collisions.

[JIM CLC # 15000]

04-25-05
ED, have you seen the location of the "starter" on a North Star engine?
BTW NS stands for the North-end of a South bound mule.
The "Starter" is in the valve valley!
Good Luck, will never own one, Jim

[Ken]

Change a fuel pump on a Chevy / GMC truck?  The fuel pump is in the tank and you need to drop the tank or remove the bed of the truck.  

Option 1 - remove the bed.  Okay so the bolts on the bed are going to be rusty if you live anywhere it snows.  Then you need a couple big guys to help you take off the bed and then of course put it back on.  

Option 2 - remove gas tank.  If you decide to drop the tank, you will have rust and dirt falling in your face (wear safety glasses).  When you do get the tank off and try to take it down you will find the wires and fuel lines very short.  You will reach into a narrow spaceand find out that it is near impossible to disconnect the lines and wires.  If you decide to extend the fuel lines to make it easier to connect when re-installing, you will find that they get kinked because they are now too long. So no good solution here.  

New option 3 - So I solved that problem by pulling out my bedliner and cutting an access hole in my bed directly above the tank.  I peeled back the portion of bed, removed and replaced the fuel pump, put the (bed) metal back in place and replaced the bed liner.  

What would have been an all weekend job was finished in just a couple hours.  

Man - what ingenious engineer came up with this crummy design?

[Ed Dougher]

I was going by what Ive heard from a mechanic who worked for a Cadillac dealership for years before opening his own shop.  Hes regarded as a local expert on 4100s where I used to live in PA.  To say the least, he doesnt seem to have much respect for Northstars!

[Dave Smith]

Todd,

     96 Mark VIII?    I sure hop you dont need any Mark VIII specific parts or electronics replaced.  I work for a VISTEON electronics center and can tell you first hand that most of the electronics on your car is already out of stock.  Most Lincoln dealers send the owners right to me because they are tired of wasting time troubleshooting electrical issues.   A neighbor of mine went to his Lincoln dealer with his 98 Mark VIII to get the drivers interior door panel repaired and was told to try a junk yard as no parts were available.   The car was 5 yrs old at the time.   I told him he shoulda drove it through their showroom window.  

   Im not biased against Lincolns.  I used to work for a National Car Rental company and once had a brand new (zero mile) 1988 Eldorado coupe have both its power windows fail and fall into the door panel when I went lower them.   All of todays cars are built with substandard parts to meet the manufacturers budgets.    More so today.   Every year they tell suppliers and vendors to lower the cost.  With rising costs to the vendors, just how do you think they cut prices to the big 3?     Small companies like mine get smaller every year so the Big 3 can save money and give the execs and stock holders dividends.   And I doubt to many stockholders are happy right now either.  

[Rhino 21150]

re: sit on the fence. Ive run for office twice and I will soon be a registered lobbyist in the state of North Carolina. Im a lifetime member of the Libertarian Party, the party that cant help but hit its feet with both barrels! I routinely campaign for intelligent safety laws. I feel like I am wasting my time. If you arent a person of no conscience you will be kept out of office by those who are. This is NOT cynicism, its experience.

Paperboys with liver transplants cant carry 1,200 pounds (545 kilos) of papers over a 55 mile (88 clicks) route on a bicycle.

I know about putting it all in reach, Ive done that in my Cav wagon. With all those papers you cant move much at all. In the Toyota van I cant reach the factory radio with the regular belt on! Besides, I did all that when I had my own dragster.

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Gday Rhino,

It is good to see you arent a "fence sitter", but, if you were, you would need your "thick Rhino skin" to stop being impailed by the sharp points of the pickets.

And yes, I realise that everyone wants their paper delivered "before Breakfast" and the only way it can be done is from the comfort of an automobile.

I forget that what we see in the movies of the paperboy on a little bicycle, casually tossing papers onto peoples front lawns can only be done on nice sunny days, with perfect weather, and flat roads.   Nothing like the real-world.

Glad to see that the Liver Transplant works, because, without a Liver, we are sure to be Deader.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

P.S.   These days, most bicycles cost more to buy than used cars.

[Todd Rothrauff]

Hello Dave,

Being a Ford technician, I know what you are saying.  Yes, there are many things I encounter that make me scratch my head and ask "Why?"  For example:  I guess the engineers feel that the oil does not get hot enough in a Taurus.  So, this must be why they put the oil filter right next to the catalytic converter?!?!?!?!

And, I am also familiar with how much new car parts can cost.  Thank goodness my Mark does not have HID headlamps ($700 per side).  While normal maintenance items are not bad, Mark-only items arent cheap, (I will probably have to get two or three more jobs if I ever have air suspension problems on this car!)  Yes, new car parts can be expensive.  

However, one of the deciding factors for my purchase of this car was my conversations with more experienced techs who told me that the Mark, in general, was issue-free.  I purchased the car two years ago with 60K miles on the odometer.  The 32K miles I have accumulated since then have been trouble free.

My service manager tells me that warranty work is declining at approximately 10percent per year.  A lot more emphasis is being placed on Maintenance Services because of this.

Todd

[Rhino 21150]

I have the BEST paperboy job in America. I deliver weekly freebies. On Thursday I take out a calendar of events, with movie reviews, upcoming concerts, that sort of stuff. On Friday I take out a used car advertising rag. Thursday I start at 10AM!
Friday I start at 9AM. It takes about 4 hours Thursday, five and a half Friday. I put papers in wire racks all over the city, collect no money, flirt with young clerks, waitresses and hotel managers. I eat when Im ready and my boss hasnt spoken to me in two months. Downside? I havent received a gas price increase in my check. Yet! And many small business owners ask my opinion about what is happening in the city. And they respect my opinion!

Im a happy camper for a guy who cant punch his way out of a (wet) paper bag any more!

[Porter 21919]

Rhino,

I am happy for you, leading a carefree life and having fun. As long as we have enough $$$ to buy parts for our cars and keep them running life is good.

Porter , working on my free 67 CDV Rat Rod ( rust rod )she runs great. Free sheetmetal and I have a mig welder.