Outrareous Prices

[Paul Perreca]

If people would ask a reasonble price for there so called collector cars, they probably wouldnt have such a hard time selling them. To see the starting prices and "Buy it now" figures on most of these cars, namely cadillacs,it is absoloutly rediculous. It seems that most people think that because the car is old or has reached "antique status", it is worth a fortune. They see a low miles caddy convert that is near perfect and probably worth good money, that there 4 door deville that sat outside for the last 35 years and has a zillian miles on it must be worth close to the same thing. GIVE ME A BREAK !!! Theres *******for every seat and a sucker born every minute. It is a sad state of affairs.

[Brian Daum, 18809]

Yeah, I remember thinking the same way back in the 70`s when they wanted $ 1000,- for a Hemi Cuda........

[George Woodford clc21025]

What I find that gets my attention more so than price is the word "MINT" used on a 100K mile car.  I would think this word would be used more carefully to describe a car with less than say 5K miles in showroom condition.

[denise 20352]

Its the same way with aircraft.  People price them at high retail value, no matter what condition theyre in.  I guess, sooner or later they either get serious about selling them and lower the price, or they keep them.  Or maybe they decide that theyre not going to sell, and send them to the crusher?

-d

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Well, it is a case of supply and demand.

Uut there, there are Millions of potential buyers, and it only takes one buyer to make a purchase.

It is the "Collector" and the "Speculator" that demand the high prices.   The initial sellers within the original ownership families, usually dont regard a car that has "annoyed them for years" as being that valuable.   It is just that "Dad" or Aunty" used to love it.

But, if the prices came down, then people wouldnt be able to pay off the National Debt with the sale of just a couple of cars.

You have to remember that a lot of people invest in "material" things, so that the Government doesnt have a record of how rich they are.

Plus, some people also use it as a means of "Money Laundering" as well.   I was never surprised when a "person of dubious means" was busted, they had a few expensive toys that isnt in keeping with their legitimate income.

In a lot of cases, people want to sell to either fund another project, or fund retirement.

I have always found that whenever I want to sell, nobody wants to buy, but when I want to buy, nobody wants to sell.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[Brian Daum]

What is a reasonable price for a collector car? Is it $ 75 000 for a 1953 Eldo? Or is it $ 5000 for a 73 Eldo pace car?

That certain models are valued high is quite acceptable in my mind, certain models like the 53 Eldo or the 59 Eldo Biarritz have low production numbers, and these models are so special that prices will be high always, and they will certainly never become lower - cars like these can be compared to artwork by the great masters.

That there is a market to pay several million $ for a low production muscle mopar I find more difficult to understand, these were cheap cars when new, but it just proves the fact that rarety will dictate high prices.

Just resently friends of mine have purchased low milage 70`s Cadillacs that have been in exceptional great condition. This have been cars with documented low milages, original paintjobs and really nice cars. The price ranges have been between $ 8000-$ 14 000,- Now I can understand that these prices might seem high compared to a few years ago, but what else can you get for $ 10 000,- today? (4 alu wheels on a new BMW!!)

My point anyway is that prices on collector cars should always reflect somewhat the price of restoring a simular car. And restoring a Cadillac is not cheap!!

 There are a lot of nice cars in the price range $ 4000-$10000  If a car enthusiast cannot afford paying $ 5000,- for a classic car, he cannot afford maintaining it either.

Brian
Norway

[Paul 13677]

$8000 to $14000 dollors is not a lot of money for the kind of car that you describe, but it is a lot of money for something that is less than half the quality or less. If you read my original post correctly, you will see that I agree with you.

[Orin CLC#16302]

I have noticed that asking prices seem to be up considerably compared to 3 or 4 years ago, at least in the case of 1940s-era cars (which is what I tend to follow).  My guess is that the asking prices have gone up about 25percent in that time, which translates into about an extra 15percent or so after inflation.  Or is this just my imagination?

[Matt Mersereau]

I guess I fall into that category according to the results of listing my 68 CDV on eBay a couple of months ago. I suppose if I were desperate for the money Id go lower, but for now Id rather keep it than let it go for less than I feel its worth.

You can see it here;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4580709301&sspagename=STRK3AMESE3AIT TARGET=_blank>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4580709301&sspagename=STRK3AMESE3AIT

A local dealer offered me $7,500, and when I went to his website I saw a 74 CDV selling for $13,500. Go figure.

[David #19063]

Hey Matt,

I feel your pain.  I sold my 43,000 original mile 68 CDV for $4500 in the Summer of 2003...after trying to sell the car for a year.  Very nice car, but not perfect.

More than likely, as in as nice shape as yours, except my AC had been converted to the new freon and blew ice cold.

Now, my area of the country is financially depressed in generally with all the steel company bankruptcies and buyouts, merges, etc.

Dealers are in the business to make money, they look for 25percent to 150percent profit average of all sales.

In addition, they will detail the cars as many private owners do not.

And will accept trade-ins, monthly payments, offer finacing, spend lots more in advertising, etc. to make a sale.  Most private owners will not do those either.

You should charge your AC system so you can sell it as working and blowing ice cold.  If not, I personally always assume a non-working system is bad and take $2000 off any car for sale without working AC.

Old Cars Price Guide state a #3 68 CDV is $8,550, assuming everything is presentable and working.  Your AC is not.

And generally, people do not get what the OCPG suggests they should either for low demand cars as ours.

Id say take the $7500 or there about and be happy.

There just is not a big demand for these cars.

Unfortunately, we were not selling 43,000 mile 68 Chevelles or Cameros as they would probably fetch $15,000, or more if they had ice cold factory AC.

I am not trying to be harsh, but telling you from experience with the same car..

David

[Torstein Wiik]

Hi Matt,
I just had a look at your 68 cad. on ebay. A Cadillac in this original condition (the car is fantastic) has a value in Norway of at least $23-25000, maybe more.American classic car enthusiasts in Europe, especially Norway and Sweden import a great deal of these cars every year. Ebay has done this very easy and has become a worldmarket. So this gives the prices a push upwards.

[Paul Perreca 13677]

I saw your car when it was advertised on e-bay. I thought it was beautiful and worth every penny. I have a 68 coupe with 62k miles with original paint, white, black top, and original red leather that was garaged its entire life. And everything works including the air and still has r-12 in the system. The car is stunningly beautiful. The interior is near perfect as is the chrome. What bothers me is that people are asking that kind of money and more for cars that are less than half as nice. Ill get over it:) Again, your car is absolutly beautiful.

[Matt Mersereau]

David,
I appreciate your attempt at dispensing advice on my CDV, but like I said, right now Id rather keep it than sell it for less. That may change in the future, but for now it isnt leaving my possesion for less. About that $2,000 ded. you take off for the A/C, where in the world do you have your A/C work done? The Rolls Royce dealer? Even if I needed a new compressor, I could have it repaired and converted around here for about one-fourth that amount. Even less if I do most of the work myself. Im sorry your car didnt sell very well, but sometimes that happens. Was yours the Arctic Blue one I remember seeing a while back?  Sometimes color has a factor in what a car will sell for. Unfair as it seems, colors like red, black, & white will usually sell higher than blues, greens, or browns. I know Im not alone in thinking that my silver over red combo is quite handsome, and not exactly common among the ones still in good condition. Most that I see in nice condition are usually in a less flashy color scheme. As you said to me, Im not trying to be harsh either, but if your old CDV and mine were side by side, condition being equal, I dont think yours would have the same appeal as mine. But you are correct in that we arent talking about a Chevelle or Camaro here... not a great deal of demand for cars like ours.

Take Care,
Matt

[David #19063]

Hello Matt,

Yes, not a lot of demand for classic luxury cars as there is for A-bodies, but no one could force me to drive a Camero or Chevelle when I could get my hands on a Fleetwood Brougham, a CDV, a Wildcat, an Electra, an Imperial, or a 300/NYR.

Thats just what I knock off for non-working AC systems.  With R12 going over $55/lb now, $80+ just for a shop to to run a vacuum purge, and many shops will not guarranty their AC work unless they replace the drier at minimum.  And sometimes hoses, POA valve, and the compressor need to be replaced.  It can get quite expensive.

With that being said, if I am looking at a car that the owner has not bothered to charge the system when that is all that it needs, I assume more is wrong, or the freon leaks out.  

And since automatic climate control systems can be an absolute nightmare to have repaired if it is not working right, one cannot be sure it works properly unless the heat blows hot and the AC blows cold and all the vacuum systems work right.

So I add up the cost of freon, AC parts replacement, shop time costs, hose replacements, climate control work...well, it could hit $2000 worst case scenerio...if one was unlucky.

Always much less money to buy one working properly.

Just me.

But seriously, if your car only needs a charge, do it and get it working, you will be much more likely to get the price you want if the car blows cold AC.  Especially since you live in Georgia.  That is a high heat and humidity area, cold AC is needed absolutely.  Maybe if you lived in North Dakota, you could get away without working AC, but not in the deep South.  

I know I buy Cadillacs, Buicks, and Chryslers for the luxury options like cold AC, power windows, etc.

Yes, I agree with you on that the color can make a difference in the sale.  You were not being harsh at all, that is a fact and you are correct.

I have often wondered if that Arctic Blue was the main reason (besides not having a Bowtie on the side of the car...LOL!) that it did not sell higher.  I think it takes the right buyer to buy a baby blue car.

My white leather interior looked very nice, however, not as impressive and eye catching as your red leather.

The Regal Silver and black top combination was the same as I had on my restored 68 Fleetwood Brougham.  Drop dead gorgeous!  My Brougham had the black leather and was fully loaded including the controlled differential.  I sold it for $7500 in September 2003.  (I just remembered, I sold my 68 CDV in May 2004 not 2003.)

Personally, if both cars were for sale side by side, Id easily pay more for your silver-black-red one than for my arctic blue-blue-white one any day.  Considerably more for yours.  Though, Id take mine over any of the golds, tans, and greens like you said.

Our economy in this part of the country is very depressed.  And I did need to sell my car which does make a difference.  

Since you are not as motivated as I was to sell, you can hang on until you get the right buyer, unfortunately, I could not.  

But seriously, you would get many more potential buyers competing for your car if the AC was cold.  Think about it.

Your 68 is very beautiful and that is my favorite year post 1960.

Good luck!

David

[Matt Mersereau]

I dont disagree with you about the A/C David, and who knows, it could end up being more than just a recharge. I hope my description didnt make it sound as if I was certain it would only need a recharge. When I got the car over two years ago it blew cold, but not ice cold. The next A/C season it was not as cold, yet all the mechanical components seemed to be in working order so I think that it only needs a recharge. I still cant decide if I should convert it or not, probably should though. If all stays the same as far as my employment (airline industry isnt looking so good right now) Ill probably have it working by next summer.
I was just looking in the photo gallery and I have to tell you, you definitely let your CDV go for too little. That was a beautiful car you had. I didnt remember that the interior was white (and spotless too). I was thinking it was blue or maybe black. While Arctic Blue may not be black, or red, at least it isnt Chestnut Brown. No offense to owners of brown Cads, but you have to admit, browns a pretty dull color!

Take care,
MDM

[David #19063]

Matt,

More than likely a recharge would do it for your 68 since the system was working properly before.  And actually, I would not hesitate to charge it in the Spring when you resume driving it, maybe have them add the dye to check for any leaks.

I am more concerned about AC systems that have not worked in years and years.  Although once during the mid 80s I bought a 67 Fury II 383-2 4D Sedan that had sat unused in a garage for 6 years.  Very clean car, however the lady bought a new car and stopped driving it, one of the reasons was the AC wasnt cold anymore and the other was the gas mileage.  

I took the car home, did basic maintence, and charged in five 99 cent cans of R12 and one oil charge.  The AC blew cold for the next two years when I sold it to buy a 64 Olds 98LS.

Personally, I have had classic cars hold their freon for years. And others, will hold it all Summer long and blow ice cold 6-7 months.  Then if the car sits in the garage over Winter for 2-3 months without the AC turned on, the freon is gone...like a seal dries up and lets it go.  Charge the system in the Spring, blows cold for 6-7 months, then will loss it over the Winter unless I start the car and run the AC once a week every week for 30 minutes.  Something about the combination of non-use and cold temps.

Yes, I thought I sold mine for for a low price, but I did need the cash more than the car at the time and the economy here is weak.  Plus, most people in my area want Chevys, A-body cars, convertibles, or muscle cars.  My car was not perfect, it was not detailed underneath or in the engine compartment, but it was a nice clean low mileage driver for local car shows and cruise-ins.

I really do love the color combination of your car.

Areyou looking to replace it with another Cadillac or something else?

David

[Andrew 10642]

David,

Im gonna agree with you on the difficulty of getting screwed up climate control to work correctly.  My 67 Eldo had its controller, sensors, transducer and other control components replaced, and it never worked consistently well, regardless.

My 68 Deville worked well from day one of my ownership 5 years ago.  Considering how buggered these systems can be, and how difficult they can be to repair, I would knock off a huge amount for a nonworking example, and even if it does blow cold, I would test all the functionality.  Living w/o a/c is one thing, but no heat in the winter sucks, and it is possible with a malfuntioning controller, butchered wiring, etc.

Matt, that is an excellent car.  Good luck with the sale!

[Matt Mersereau]

No, I am not looking at anything to replace it right now. In fact unless someone contacts me with an offer I cant refuse, Ill most likely just keep it. Again, provided my employment does not change for the worse. I got an email from a man in Germany a few days ago, he must have kept the item number of the auction, because he used both regular email and eBays message system. When it was on eBay, a 18 year old guy emailed to ask if he and his father could come look at it as a candidate for his first car. I couldnt see that car being driven as a daily driver by anyone, much less a teenager, so I didnt reply to his inquirey.
Maybe next spring I will relist it, or not. My wife is encouraging me to just keep it. She says Ill be sorry if I sell it. I know shes right.

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Matt,

You are blessed to have such a clever and understanding wife.

But, I wouldnt have any hesitation in responding to the young blokes email.   You never know, he might really enjoy it, and there is nothing wrong with 50s and on cars being daily drivers.   You have to remember that all vehicles were daily drivers when new, until the next new car came along.

I wouldnt have any hesitation with using my 60 CDV as a daily driver.   Gee, I dont even drive our late model Falcon (8 years old) every day.   I dont even check the oil and water whenever I take out any of my cars as I know what they are like, and they are totally dependable.   I do check them, but usually once a month, and they never use any oil or water.   But, they love petrol though.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[Matt Mersereau]

Hi Bruce,
My feelings on my 68 becoming a daily driver have nothing to do with its dependability for such service. I just have a hard time thinking about racking up the miles, and wear & tear on a car thats made it this far in such great condition. Sure it could always be restored eventually, but as they say, its only original once.
Id have no such hangups driving a high-mileage car that had been restored as it could always be re-restored.
Silly?, yeah, probably. But thats just me!

Matt