After changing my oil and putting in 1 quart of Marvel Mystery Oil, 4 ounces of ZDDP and 4 quarts of 10W30 Quaker State Slick50 Oil for High Mileage Engines, my '62 is putting out a slight bit of blue smoke in the exhaust. This happens even after I've had the car on the highway for at least a half hour. Can anyone tell me if I'm in for some engine issues in the future?
Thanks in advance for the due diligence.
Edward, I, IMHO, think you will be needing at the very least a"ring" job in the near future. Jim
In the future? You're having engine issues in the present.
Blue smoke is oil being burned in the cylinders. It can only enter the cylinder in about 3 ways.
1. past the piston rings
2. past the valve guides or valve seals
3. through a damaged head gasket
How many miles are on this engine? Does it smoke more at start-up? Is the amount of smoke consistent throughout your drive or does it puff out during acceleration or shifting?
You're going to have to perform a wet and dry compression test on all cylinders to determine your course of action.
Just a thought. Do you normally put a QUART of Marvel Mystery Oil in at an oil change?
Marvel contains some solvents that are very effective cleaning agents and a whole
quart is too much to use, especially in addition to the Slick 50. Some of this could be burning
off and making your exhaust smoke.
Have you had this "smoking" problem before -- without the additives?
Mike
Assuming this is an engine with quite a few miles on it I would use 10/40, or maybe even 20/50, and the ZDDP and skip the rest of it. The Slick 50 is little more than "snake oil" (I don't care what it says on the bottle), and as Mike says a full quart of MMO is too much. An engine that has had regular and frequent oil changes shouldn't need MMO and you have certainly used enough of it to clean that engine as much as it is going to get cleaned.
Edward. Drop all that stuff out of your engine post haste. Not good in any way. The replies you have read here are correct.
#1 Drop the oil mixture you have in there now. 10W-40 is fine for an engine in good shape under 100,000 miles. Over that, depending on the service intervals, 20W-50 would be preferred.
#2 Marvel Mystery Oil is an oil that in the past was used to 'uncoke', sticking rings, lifters, rockers etc... Please don't leave that in your engine longer than a drive to heat it up and get it out.
#3 Do you have an original motor with lots of miles? Put a good oil in like Valvoline 20W-50. If you live in a temperate climate, 10W-40 should suffice. I have '59 that is knocking on 100,000 miles that gets synthetic, plus the ZDDP. It drips a quart in 4000 miles, but doesn't burn it.
Stay away from paraffin bases oils from PA. Paraffin is what is used in candle wax. You should see an oil pan after using PA blended oils over a period of time. Big time sludge in the pan.
MisFit
I dumped in some MMO in my 61 last week (about 1/2 pint). Went to pull it out of the garage on Friday and now I have a low pressure oil light on. Changed the oil and still have the light. I think this isn't a coincidence.
I'm going to invest in a gauge to make sure it isn't the sending unit, but I have a suspicion I have a bigger problem.
Here's the problem with crap like that. It loosens up all sorts of gunk in the engine that's been building up for 50 years. As parts wear out, the spaces left by the metal are filled with sludge, dirt, etc.
In effect, the goop is taking the place of bearing material and wear surfaces, etc. When it's suddenly flushed out, the worn engine parts suddenly have a lot of slop and play. Oil slips into places it couldn't get before. This can lower oil pressure too as there is suddenly a bunch of new places for the oil to go - like into the combustion chamber.
I'd suggest changing your oil and filter and using 20w -50. That might get your pressure back up. How many miles are on your engine?
Reply to following quote from Misfit:
"Stay away from paraffin bases oils from PA. Paraffin is what is used in candle wax. You
should see an oil pan after using PA blended oils over a period of time. Big time sludge in the pan."
I have to disagree with you on your statement regarding Pennsylvania Grade Crude. Have you ever
been to a PA refinery and seen how they process this? I have.
First of all, PA crude coming out of the wellhead is a light "honey colored" liquid, very
unlike the typical Texas grade crude "black gold" you see in the movies. The reason is
that it is very low on sulfur content and other impurities that Texas grade has. The sulfur
content contributes to acid formation when combined with the water in the crankcase.
Sure, they refine it and add additives to get around this issue -- but it's not in the same
class of oil.
The PA crude is "the best". They remove the paraffin by running the crude through
huge "chiller units" that cool the liquid down and the paraffin is easily separated out. I've
been using Quaker State and other PA-grade oils for over 40+ years without any issues.
The "crud" in the bottom of the crankcase you speak of is the sludge that occurs from
condensation, engine combustion by-products, that happens over the years regardless of
which oil you use (brand, base stock, etc). I'm speaking here about engines 40-50 years old
as are under discussion not newer vehicles. You keep this at a minimum in any vehicle, old or
new, by changing your oil at regular intervals.
Mike
Quote from: ottoskorzeny on May 25, 2009, 09:30:54 PM
Here's the problem with crap like that. It loosens up all sorts of gunk in the engine that's been building up for 50 years. As parts wear out, the spaces left by the metal are filled with sludge, dirt, etc.
In effect, the goop is taking the place of bearing material and wear surfaces, etc. When it's suddenly flushed out, the worn engine parts suddenly have a lot of slop and play. Oil slips into places it couldn't get before. This can lower oil pressure too as there is suddenly a bunch of new places for the oil to go - like into the combustion chamber.
I'd suggest changing your oil and filter and using 20w -50. That might get your pressure back up. How many miles are on your engine?
I pulled the pressure switch this morning and checked it out. It's the switch that's bad (thankfully). The engine is going to be treated to a rebuild at some point, I'm just not there yet. I'm more concerned with it running to get it in and out of the garage at this point.
I know the odometer has rolled over at least once judging by the oil change stickers inside the door, but, it could also be on it's second go round. Once I dissect it I'll know more.
That's good to hear. I'd still use a heavier oil like 15w-40 or 20w-50 in a high mileage engine like that.
Is 40-70 too high for a 57k mile car?This is what I use on my 59 with no other additives,seems to be OK.
It seems a little heavy to me but if it's working fine for you, I'd leave well enough alone.
40-70? That's a new one on me, special order? Sounds much to heavy for a 57,000 mile engine.
That's almost gear oil.
I've never heard of 40-70.
Quote from: ottoskorzeny on May 27, 2009, 01:58:26 PM
I've never heard of 40-70.
Me either and I've been fixing car's for well over 15 year's now.. I lost count how many rebuild's our shop has done over the year's seance we have been in the business since the mid 60's... The Dealers depended on the independent for years even up into the mid 80's..Hence I love my Cadillac's, never never have I used anything other than 10W-30 or 10W-40 in any vintage motor... I prefer 10W-40 myself.... Quaker State Oil is the worst oil you can buy. Want to talk about sludge.... and don't get me started on oil filter's.... And by the way Mike Oil City is about an hour from me and they don't pull too much oil from them hill's anymore.. I drive through all the time on my way to Warren Pa.. As a matter of fact Eric Boron (Boron oil co.) is a close friend of mine.... most of the oil you see is being shipped in and stored there... I just had to throw my two cents in here, I don't care what you run in your car's.. I know what work's and don't work..
The Automotive Guru....
If your running an old Harley Pre 83 I recomend SAE 50 & SAE 60 .... ;D That's some thick stuff but it cools the motor too...
Harley Guru too....
Yes, there really is a product called 40-70 oil for cars. It's designed for use in worn
engines. The web site is an Australian company but it's available here too.
Here's a website with more information: http://www.nulon.com.au/products.php?productName=40-70_Extra_Thick_Oil
Also, for Mr. Ohio 57-62 Sedan, please re-read my posting. I mentioned "PA 'GRADE' crude".
I'm fully aware that the Oil City area does not have much oil left anymore. However, other states still have some reserves of PA Grade. When Oil City was still running all out about 30+ years ago
we had, besides Quaker State, Kendall, Pennzoil, Wolf's-Head among others. I used to
call on their refineries. They were all top quality products. Sadly, most of these are gone and
Pennzoil was bought out about 15 years ago my one of the Texas majors.
Did you know that back in the day, many farmers with small wells used that crude
right out of the ground for their Model T's, A's and tractors? Try doing that with Texas
grade.
As far as why I think it's the best feedstock, here's one website explains that in
layman's terms and more-or-less back's up what I said.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_Grade_Crude_Oil
But hey, use whatever you wish in your cars and good luck. All I'm trying to do is
keep the membership informed about the different options.
Mike
"The Chemical Guru"
Mike,
While I respect whatever degree in Engineering, that you may hold, and the opinion of you amoungst this group, I must voice my opinion also. I always listen to others. That's how we learn.
Having turned wrenches since I was old enough to hold one, and having built many, many engines, I must say that unless you have been inside more than one that has used PA. extracted and refined products, ie: Pennzoil, Quaker State, Wolfes Head, or an other of countless brands that have been on the shelves since you and I were boys, you would change your opinion. And quick.
Remember back before there were oil filters? How it was recommended that you pull the pan and clean the residue at the bottom, every so often. Now picture one of those '40's engines, that has never had the pan pulled and cleaned. Bad huh? Now picture a somewhat modern day engine, say circa 1960-1970, that has used the oils you tout as being great. Pull the pan and you will run, not walk, but run to your nearest Valvoline retailer.
There again, we all have our own beliefs and opinions, but until you build engines day in and day out, you learn to ask questions of the ones you do build. I never built performance engines, just stock engines that you run in the Mom and Pop car.
Go to one of the Cadillac performance sites. The ones that have the guys that crank out 7 and 8 hundred horsepower out a 70 472 block and mention PA refined oils. They will laugh at you Sir. There again it's just an opinion. I don't post unless it is fact. There are a lot of people here that can put my knowledge of the cars themselves to shame. But I do know what makes them run correctly.
Regards, MisFit CLC # 22631
What about Slick 50 and MMO - any good ?
Slick 50 (engine oil additives)
Slick 50 and other engine oil additives supposedly reduce engine wear and increase fuel efficiency.
You may have heard the commercial or seen the ad:
Multiple tests by independent laboratories have shown that when properly applied to an automotive engine, Slick 50 Engine Formula reduces wear on engine parts. Test results have shown that Slick 50 treated engines sustained 50 percent less wear than test engines run with premium motor oil alone.
There are about 50 other products on the market which make similar claims, many of them being just duplicate products under different names from the same company. The price for a pint or quart of these engine oil additives runs from a few dollars to more than $20. Do these products do any good? Not much. Do they do any harm. Sometimes.
http://www.skepdic.com/slick50.html
Porter
Your not putting Crude oil in you car are you?? And one more thing or two... There is still plenty of oil in in the hills in NW PA... United refinery is still going strong today in Warren Pa . I have cousins and uncles that still work there..... The rest are all just a bunch of sellouts.... but hey some say Tomato some say Tomoto.. use what works for you... opinions are like ford mustangs and bellybuttons everyone has one... even me ;D
Quote from: Porter on May 27, 2009, 08:33:39 PM
What about Slick 50 and MMO - any good ?
Slick 50 (engine oil additives)
Slick 50 and other engine oil additives supposedly reduce engine wear and increase fuel efficiency.
You may have heard the commercial or seen the ad:
Multiple tests by independent laboratories have shown that when properly applied to an automotive engine, Slick 50 Engine Formula reduces wear on engine parts. Test results have shown that Slick 50 treated engines sustained 50 percent less wear than test engines run with premium motor oil alone.
There are about 50 other products on the market which make similar claims, many of them being just duplicate products under different names from the same company. The price for a pint or quart of these engine oil additives runs from a few dollars to more than $20. Do these products do any good? Not much. Do they do any harm. Sometimes.
http://www.skepdic.com/slick50.html
Porter
Porter I do not beleave in the ol' mechanic in the bottle trick myself, but I'm sure someone here will swear to it... I had a guy put Five quarts of that motor honey crap in his car one time.... did not last too long.. but We got a motor rebuild out of the deal... we just threw his motor away and built a core we had sitting around... it was an HT4100 too.. I coulden't of been all of about 14 or so My dad and uncle let me rebuild it and gave the guy a five year 50,000 mile warranty to boot..never came back the young punk must know his stuff... Snikker... 8)
Geez Ohio57-62Sedan dude,
I respect your decades of engine rebuilding and professional mechanical repair expertise, just trying to get to the bottom of these so called "snake oil additives".
Some people claim they use one qt. of ATF in their next oil change, what's up with that ?
I know this guy Stampie dumped ATF down the carb of his 70 472 while running to "decoke" the engine and fogged up the neighborhood pretty good, is that a good thing to do ? What do you think of this "Seafoam" product ? Seems like the new "SLick 50" to me.
Your buddy,
Poot Man 8)
Quote from: Porter on May 27, 2009, 10:30:58 PM
Geez Ohio57-62Sedan dude,
I respect your decades of engine rebuilding and professional mechanical repair expertise, just trying to get to the bottom of these so called "snake oil additives".
Some people claim they use one qt. of ATF in their next oil change, what's up with that ?
I know this guy Stampie dumped ATF dwon the carb of his 70 472 while running to "decoke" the engine and fogged up the neighborhood pretty good, is that a good thing to do ? What do you think of this "Seafoam" product ? Seems like the new "SLick 50" to me.
Your buddy,
Poot Man 8)
I don't use any of it. I don't think it's a good thing to do either... and neither dose my uncle, dad and Granddad.... You want to run some carb cleaner through your carb nooo problem... Okay when I was 16 I filled up the washer bottle with ATF ran a hose to my quadrajunk... when someone got too close I'd give it a little squert...HAR....HAR...HAR.... I did it to the cop's a couple time's too... ::) Go to jail do not collect 200 buck's do not pass go.... ;D
like I said some people will swear by it..... I'll stand over here and swear at it myself...
Your buddy
The Automotive Guru.. ;)
He fogged up the neighborhood pretty bad, likely had no mosquitos in the yard for a few days though. Cheaper than that Deep Woods Off bug spray stuff.
Porter ::)
Misfit:
Thanks for your reply and your comments. I've done my share of automotive
"wrench turning" in fact that's how I worked through college in the 60's, at a local
garage.
However, I never did a complete engine or transmission rebuild. I don't have the
training to do that. Anyone who does have those skills has my full respect.
BTW, we're almost "neighbors" if you travel in North West PA -- I live in Wexford just
off I-79, about 25 miles north of Pittsburgh.
If you're ever down this way give me a shout. My phone number is in the Members
Directory.
Nice discussion,
Mike
Multiple tests by independent laboratories have shown that when properly applied to an automotive engine, Slick 50 Engine Formula reduces wear on engine parts. Test results have shown that Slick 50 treated engines sustained 50 percent less wear than test engines run with premium motor oil alone.
The only thing "slick" about Slick-50 was the advertising. I say "was" because they were
hit with a restraining order by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) for making bogus
claims about 6-7 years ago. They toned down their advertising after that, however they
can still sell the product.
You cannot put "Teflon" in a bottle and pour it into the crankcase and expect it to do
anything usefull. It just does not work.
Don't waste your money on this stuff.
I once did an article for the Self Starter on oil additives -- perhaps it's time to dust that one
off and revise it and reprint it. That was about 8 years ago and alot has happened since.
Mike
The only "Fix-in-a-bottle" I ever use, and recommend is Bars Leak.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: Mike Josephic on May 27, 2009, 11:24:17 PM
Multiple tests by independent laboratories have shown that when properly applied to an automotive engine, Slick 50 Engine Formula reduces wear on engine parts. Test results have shown that Slick 50 treated engines sustained 50 percent less wear than test engines run with premium motor oil alone.
The only thing "slick" about Slick-50 was the advertising. I say "was" because they were
hit with a restraining order by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) for making bogus
claims about 6-7 years ago. They toned down their advertising after that, however they
can still sell the product.
You cannot put "Teflon" in a bottle and pour it into the crankcase and expect it to do
anything usefull. It just does not work.
Don't waste your money on this stuff.
I once did an article for the Self Starter on oil additives -- perhaps it's time to dust that one
off and revise it and reprint it. That was about 8 years ago and alot has happened since.
Mike
Mike,
Exactly what this thread and discussion is all about - burying the snake oil products.
MMO serves a purpose if used properly - so does ATF besides transmission fluid.
Old cars are long out of warranty, what you dump into your crankcase is your business now.
Granted engine oil has been reformulated numerous times in the past decades, always upgraded and backwards compatible for the most part, same with ATF.
Porter
Quote from: ottoskorzeny on May 27, 2009, 01:58:26 PM
I've never heard of 40-70.
Here it is.I'm no expert when it comes to what oil to use.I just asked the guy at the auto store,"what oil should I use in an old late 50's cadillac".This is what he recommended.Like I said before, it seems to be OK.
Ah ha, a good Aussie Oil.
But, this is a first for me as well. 40-70 is too heavy for any conditions, apart for up in FNQ or Darwin in mid Summer.
Bruce. >:D
Mike, I am nowhere near you. I'm waaaay down in Fort Lauderdale. We met in Savannah briefly, while I was drooling on your '55. You had left the windows open and the rain was coming in through the overhead slab.
I opened the door to close the windows, just as you were coming out to do it too. Normally I would never open the door of anothers car, but to me this was an exception.
We conversed for a few minutes, but you had to get back in to your meeting.
Always good conversation when knowledge can be gained.
MisFit
I too have no use for any of these wonder products, so-called mechanic in a bottle. They are nothing less than advertising schemes to sell you a product that in the end won't work.
In my experience, the only additive that I have found to do any good is GM's EOS.
Also, I have been using HD 15W40 oil in all of my cars for getting on 30 years. I have never had any engine concerns with any of my cars. Never. In one case, an '86 Brougham I bought was using a litre of oil every week and a half. I put in Rotella T 15W 40 and the oil consumption all but stopped. I would add a container of EOS once per year. Just as I do with all of my cars.
I have no idea what is in MMO, we can't get it here in Ontario, but I'm sure it may have it's use. But for my money, I would certainly not use it.
However, I find the discussion on differant oil base and products interesting and informative. I'm not an oil engineer, or an expert in the oil industry, but I do hold my opinions and they are from my almost 30 years experience in the automotive repair trade.
Mike
Quote from: Mike Josephic on May 27, 2009, 11:14:32 PM
Misfit:
Thanks for your reply and your comments. I've done my share of automotive
"wrench turning" in fact that's how I worked through college in the 60's, at a local
garage.
However, I never did a complete engine or transmission rebuild. I don't have the
training to do that. Anyone who does have those skills has my full respect.
BTW, we're almost "neighbors" if you travel in North West PA -- I live in Wexford just
off I-79, about 25 miles north of Pittsburgh.
If you're ever down this way give me a shout. My phone number is in the Members
Directory.
Nice discussion,
Mike
Mike you and I are neighbors I live 5 minutes or less from the state line... I 'm always loooking to learn something new myself.. I'm no expert here but I do come from a long line of automotive GUru's.. I built my first car with my uncle at age 6 and never looked back I knew this is what I wanted to do.. Do you come to Salem for the Steel Valley Nats??? or how about any car shows at Quaker Steak n' lube in Sharron?? I would love to sit down and BS with you sometime...
;D
Quote from: Ohio57-62Sedan on May 27, 2009, 08:47:58 PM
Your not putting Crude oil in you car are you?? And one more thing or two... There is still plenty of oil in in the hills in NW PA... United refinery is still going strong today in Warren Pa . I have cousins and uncles that still work there..... The rest are all just a bunch of sellouts.... but hey some say Tomato some say Tomoto.. use what works for you... opinions are like ford mustangs and bellybuttons everyone has one... even me ;D
I buy all my gas at Kwik Fill (United Refining)
Quote from: Ohio57-62Sedan on May 28, 2009, 10:34:49 AM
Mike you and I are neighbors I live 5 minutes or less from the state line... I 'm always loooking to learn something new myself.. I'm no expert here but I do come from a long line of automotive GUru's.. I built my first car with my uncle at age 6 and never looked back I knew this is what I wanted to do.. Do you come to Salem for the Steel Valley Nats??? or how about any car shows at Quaker Steak n' lube in Sharron?? I would love to sit down and BS with you sometime...
;D
Thanks -- I would love a good BS session with you as well. I don't get to Sharon much, next time I do I'll
let you know However, perhaps you might think about our local Club's car show (Pittsburgh Region) that's held every year here at Rohrich Cadillac. We have club members from your area, some in Erie, PA and throughout the Western PA area.
Our local Club website is: http://www.clcpgh.org/
Best,
Mike
Mike,
Been a great discussion here, I think we all learned a few things, waiting for Edward to weigh in and hopefully we have helped him, take this diagnosis further.
BTW my lifelong friend Dr. CT Cargill O.D. has a practice in Wexford, Pa. , perhaps you know of him.
Fine country out there and have been out to visit a few times.
Regards,
Porter Littlefield from Denmark, Maine
Quote from: Mike Josephic on May 28, 2009, 06:57:19 PM
Thanks -- I would love a good BS session with you as well. I don't get to Sharon much, next time I do I'll
let you know However, perhaps you might think about our local Club's car show (Pittsburgh Region) that's held every year here at Rohrich Cadillac. We have club members from your area, some in Erie, PA and throughout the Western PA area.
Our local Club website is: http://www.clcpgh.org/
Best,
Mike
i go to the wexford starlight cruise every now and then
Quote from: bill henry on May 28, 2009, 05:25:51 PM
I buy all my gas at Kwik Fill (United Refining)
Good Gas.. Let's keep the local people working Refining good products...
Quote from: Mike Josephic on May 28, 2009, 06:57:19 PM
Thanks -- I would love a good BS session with you as well. I don't get to Sharon much, next time I do I'll
let you know However, perhaps you might think about our local Club's car show (Pittsburgh Region) that's held every year here at Rohrich Cadillac. We have club members from your area, some in Erie, PA and throughout the Western PA area.
Our local Club website is: http://www.clcpgh.org/
Best,
Mike
I think this is a good area for crusing... I'll check you guy's out sometime.. I'm always looking for something different to do... I have to cheet these days take the old way in past the airport.. the PA pike charges five or six' bucks one way and it's only three exit's to pitts.. used to be 1.50 when I was 16..
They should be paying you to repair your car after a 10 mile ride on that road. It's almost as smooth as I-75 through DownTown Detroit, and that's as smooth as riding on the moon.
MisFit
I'm used to riding on pothole infested roads... we just dodge em here... that's why no one will drive next to eachother.. you might need both lanes..
Here they ride right with each other like little sheeple. Afraid to be on their own.
I don't like anybody near me. They haven't a clue as to the capabilities of that $100K Mercedes they're driving. That's why you see them wrecked all the time.
MisFit
I call them "clump drivers." They drive around in little clumps with space all around in front and behind.
In Atlanta, they repair potholes and road work with steel plates. In some areas you'll have a couple hundred feet of steel plating in your lane that offers no traction or friction to stop. Sometimes the plates move and cars fall in the holes.
Redneck Road Repair !!! :D
MisFit
Edward,
Let us know how you make out with your 62 390.
Have to agree with Misfit here, you are pushing the MMO right out the exhaust, but likely your piston rings are clean now.
By all means dump that crankcase " cocktail " and might want to consider using Mobil 1 or Valvoline synthetic oil, try 10W-40.
I tried the synthetic last year for the first time in my SBC daily driver with 160K mileage, lower oil consumption and it stays cleaner.
Hardly worth the expense of an engine rebuild if you are only burning a qt. every 500 - 1,000 miles. The Northstar engines would use a qt. every 1.5K.
Misfit can vouch for the synthetic oil, I'm a convert now myself. Has the same SM API spec. as the standard oil too, can mix and match without worry if need be.
Porter
I won't use an SM spec oil in any engine with flat tappets (ie not roller lifters/cam followers).
Prefer CI4 spec 15-40 oils in my older engines (70 CDV and '68 GMC). Getting harder to find on the shelves though.
I'll run a CJ4 oil before I run a SM, energy conserving oil (ie one with the for gasoline engines sunburst).
M. Jones, MMO is Marvel Mystery Oil. http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/wheretobuy/ (http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/wheretobuy/)
The site says Canadian Tire no longer stocks it, but TruServ Canada does.
Basically a high detergent and solvent mix. Good for cleaning internals parts.
Been around since 1923, so it's doing something right.
I've never seen it here. Not at any Canadian Tire I have been to. There are no TruServ's in our area, not even sure what TuServ is.
Mike
I buy my MMO at Wal-Mart. Back in the radial engine airliner days the airlines used to buy it in 50 gallon drums for use in their engines. It was never FAA approved (CAA back then) but the Feds knew it was being used and turned a blind eye. Excellent for preventing sticking valves and I use it in my Lycoming aircraft engine fuel at all times.
http://www.truserv.ca/pls/truserv_pub/truserv.app (http://www.truserv.ca/pls/truserv_pub/truserv.app)
So True Value hardware, V&S, or Country Depot.
Ask for this stock number 0414200.
I have heard about the stuff. I know it's been available for a very long time, but have never seen it here. Ever. However, there is a big red flag that waves everytime I see any oil additive. I tend to stay clear from them unless I know more about them. And the l;abel on the can is not enough to convince me.
When Slick 50 and all those other "miracle" additives became popular, I stayed clear. Then I find out what is in them and they do absolutely nothing for your engine. In some cases can actually harm them. MMO fits in the same category for me. Anything with "mystery" in the name is something to stay clear of. At least for my thinking.
The only additive that I have ever actually seen work, is GM's EOS. That's the only one I use.
Saturday I changed the oil on my '70 Fleetwood. I used 15W40 oil with the SL/CJ rating, and a can of EOS. I installed a NAPA Gold oil filter. This is the combo that works for me, and has for almost 30 years. I have used 15W40 in all my cars and have never had any engine issues whatsoever in the time. The brand of oil has changed over the years, as has my preferance from AC/Delco filters to the NAPA, which is made by Wix.
This engine has 120,000 miles, and uses no oil. It is church mouse quiet. The oil is so clean that I have to view the level on the dipstick via refraction of light.
Mike
Quote from: Mike Jones on June 01, 2009, 11:03:26 AM
MMO fits in the same category for me. Anything with "mystery" in the name is something to stay clear of. At least for my thinking.
MMO is in a different category. I can see the name throwing you, but it a historic name and won't be changed.
Probably the same as Sea Foam, just an older product.
Look at WD-40. Another historic name, "Water Displacement try number 40"
And do you really know what's in the STP treatments (STP = Scientifically Treated Petroleum)?
MMO is great for cleaning carburetors and internal engine parts.
A bit in the fuel to clean the carb and intake.
A quart in the oil before a change to flush the engine a bit.
This page has some useful info.
http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/about/ (http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/about/)
MSDS shows noting to be concerned with.
http://www.turtlewax.com/res/msds/MM010-4.pdf (http://www.turtlewax.com/res/msds/MM010-4.pdf)
I would have NEVER put that stuff in my car if I hadn't seen (rather heard) it with my own eyes. I had a friend who had a '70 Impala that didn't get driven much. We pulled it out of the garage planning to rebuild the engine (402 ?). When we pulled it out, one lifter seemed like it was collapsed, from the noises I was hearing. We drove it up and down the street, nothing. He dumped some MMO - IN THE CARB-, of all places, and he drove off down the street, foggin' fer skeeters. He came back and it was that church mouse that Mike talked about. I could not believe what I was hearing. Since then, when I have a car that has been sitting, I'll occasionally dump some in. I have never, however, had the same results. Still, that one time turned me from skeptic to user.
Marvel Mystery Oil Comment.....................
This is a product, that when properly used, is a "good" additive. Yes, there
are some that cen be worthwhile.
The reason why Marvel Mystery Oil works so well is that it contains the following:
Stoddard's Solvent (about 70%) and Mineral Spirits (about 25%). You have to know
how to decipher the MSDS and CAS numbers to find out. No mystery now.
Stoddart's was used as a dry cleaning solvent, Mineral Spirits as a paint thinner
for alkyd paints.
Together they make a potent cleaning combination. I always keep a gallon around for
the occassional sticking valve problem or other issue. I've used it for 40+ years.
As a previous poster said, it's been around since 1923 so it must be doing something
right!!
Mike
OK, so I get it. It should be used only as a flush or a cleaner. In the event there is a problem there. Not to add to the oil as a matter of coarse. Since I do not have any problems with the engine in my cars, there is no need for it.
I can see it having been used back in the days when oil was not as good as it is today, when sludge build up was common. So, is there a use for it today in well maintained engines? Or using it will create further problems?
Mike
Some still use it as a preventative, but I don't and probably wouldn't.
I do think using a quart every other or every 3rd oil change for 50-100 miles, would be good to prevent problems.
ATF would work just as well I think.
That's on a new, well maintained engine (or one you rebuilt and know the history on)
And some in the fuel regularly will help keep the fuel tract clean. No lead to worry about now, but still issues of gum and varnish on a infrequently use vehicle.
Alternatives exist that work as well, if MMO isn't readily available.
Sea Foam products seam to work well too, and are a good alternative.
I used Sea Foam on the top end of the GMC, and AFT in the crankcase.
You should not use solvents in your oil. Not as a regular maintenance item, even for 50 miles.
Maybe as a flush when there is a problem such as sludging or sticky valves or lifters. But never place a load on the engine. leave the engine on a faster idle for about 1/2 hour. That's it. Solvents destroy the oil's ability to lubricate properly and can lead to further damage if any load is placed on bearings.
I especially am concerned with the cam/lifter interface. We all speak loudly on the loss of ZDDP in oils, then use this stuff that can wipe out a cam in short order, particularly in high compression engines.
Mike
It has been used as a regular additive by many for decades. Including replacing 1 quart of the normal oil with it on every oil fill.
So 100k miles + running 4 qt motor oil and 1qt MMO at all times.
I think it's unnecessary, but it has been used that way without issure for a long time.
I cannot be damaging to the engine or it would not still be done.
You can see here, http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/mmo/ (http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/mmo/),
that they recommend one quart with every oil fill, and 4oz/10gal at every refueling.
And they have for decades.
I'm sorry but that just goes against my grain. Putting solvents in your oil that would thin it down just does not make any sense to me. Decades ago, maybe there was a use for it, but a good engine running on today's oil should not need any magic potion. I just can't see how this product can actually be good for your engine in the long run.
Of coarse they will tell you this and that on their website, which just smacks of salesmanship.
Would you pour a quart of varsol into your engine every oil change?
Mike
I've seen a used oil analysis by Blackstone Labs, from 4qt 5W30 oil and 1qt MMO after 4000 miles, and the viscosity was still within specs for a 5w30, so it does not thin the oil much. It's basically a 5W oil with some extra additives.
Other info says it's drop a 20W50 one grade, so the higher the viscosity oils will see some thinning, but low viscosity oils will see little to no thinning.
Just saying that after decades of us without issues, I cannot see a blanket write off.
As to the effectiveness or need in modern engines I agree it's less effective, and probably won't show much improvement.
But it's not going to harm anything either.
Now, I'm reminded that I need to change the oil in the CDV. It at least a year old though less than 1000 miles)
I am with Mike on this one.
MMO might have been a good idea for engines when it was designed and produced, but definitely not for any engine of a later design, using Hydraulic Lifters and Roller Cams and Lifters.
Using a Detergent Oil is good insurance, as long as it is used all the time, and not spasmodically.
Keeping the internals clean and well lubricated is the way to go, and anything that causes Sludge that has been built up over many years to suddenly loosen and flake off is fraught with danger of blocking the odd gallery and causing critical parts to run dry.
Bruce. >:D