What will we do when all the old shops, close up shop?

[Scot Minesinger]

Jeff, very interesting article from "Car and Driver".  Towards the end of the article the notion that the prewar car hobby shrank as people that were around then when young started dropping out of the hobby.  There is something to that because I really like the 1968-71 Thunderbirds with their 429 hi-compression engines and our family had two of them when I was a teenager.  If the right one came along I might buy it, and it is understood it is not particularly collectible.

I have no interest in prewar cars.  Reason is although you can technically drive them, they really cannot keep up with modern traffic.  They were not built to drive 75 mph on the highway and be required to stop swiftly and handle curves well.  Plus the Cadillacs were built to be driven in and more oriented to the passenger than for the driver.  So prewar cars cannot really be driven without great care.  Yes, I know a 1940 automobile with hydraulic breaks and all can be driven on the highway, but they do not like to go 70mph and you run out of breaks and suspension long before you run out of engine driving at high speed.  So I think the 1960's and newer cars that can be driven on the highway with modern traffic will remain collectible.

[Maynard Krebs]

Yes, I know a 1940 automobile with hydraulic breaks and all can be driven on the highway, but they do not like to go 70mph and you run out of breaks and suspension long before you run out of engine driving at high speed.  So I think the 1960's and newer cars that can be driven on the highway with modern traffic will remain collectible.

Basically, I agree with this.   However, one must be careful not to over-rev an engine that "has taken an internal 'set', where the pistons & rings may not be used to being thrown violently upwards.. during previous owner's driving habits.   I am frankly still a bit afraid that I should not have driven my latest acquisition (a 2nd '89 Caprice w/ OD) more than 74 mph on the freeway... as I'm only the second owner, and it has 221,000 on it from the original owner.   I drove it at 80 mph for a couple hours recently (on either side of a time break), and I worry that I may have damaged the piston rings some.. from hitting a "built-up ridge" on the cylinder walls, just above where the pistons normally were not 'driven'.   I'll find out....

[bcroe]

The mentality still is quite prevalent among classic old car owners:  "But that costs more than what the car is worth". 

I get so tired of hearing that irrelevant statement.  What MATTERS is
the cost to REPLACE the car or whatever.  Given the excellent repair
that most of mine are in, that is quite a large sum, and many concerns
are NOT pure financial.  For example a car swap means I have to swap
all the locks for my master key system.  Bruce Roe

[Scot Minesinger]

Maynard,

My daily driver for ten years was a 1985 Caprice w/305 V-8 and I did nothing but service and it went to 300k miles.  It was still running fine then and it was traded in.  That was one of my best cars.  It had overdrive, but it seemed to shift too soon into overdrive, at 40 - 45 mph and then too slow to get out of it and so I really had to be driving 65 to use it effectively.  I drove mine routinely at 75 mph with ac on and it returned 27mpg, and with a 26 gallon tank it was nothing to drive 550 miles without filling up.  It drove in the snow like no problem. 

Your Caprice is newer and I think GM had better overdrive control.  I think you will be fine driving that car as if you bought it new and it had 2k miles on it.  Wonderful car - enjoy it.


Bruce,

I agree this "but it costs more than it is worth" or the ever popular "I'm upside down in this car" is irrelevant.  There are so many other factors in play.  Bottom line, no point in even owning a car if it cannot be reliable and driven.  I'm a preventative maintenance nut because I hate foreseeable possible break downs.  When I read about classic car trips of 100 miles or more and: (insert one here) 20 year old tire failures, 50 year old transmission failures due to original seal failures, 40 year old heater hose failures, and the like on classics or otherwise, my sympathy is zero. 

[jaxops]

"Amen" Scot.  If they can't drive, it's just a couch. 
I am running into parts issues with my '97 Lincoln.  When my other cars fell off of the dealership parts support, the parts-gap wasn't too long before you could find parts on the collector car side.  So far that hasn't happened with this one.  All of those town car taxis are probably disappearing now. 

[z3skybolt]

My sympathies, admiration and support is offered to anyone who pursues their passion with effort and conviction.  Many of modest means spend years of labor directed toward getting their collector vehicles road or show worthy.  Frequent breakdowns and challenges are all part of the hobby.  This endeavour, like any other activity in life, is filled with persons and attitudes of every imaginable level.  Some have a rusty survivor that hasn't been on the highway for years. Yet they dream. Others have one or two beautifully restored automobiles that may, for them, represent a major investment. Others have collections that run into the dozens of Rolls, Mercedes,Packard,Cadillac.....classics worth millions of $$.  Within our personal circle of participation we may feel superior.  But venture beyond our realm and there will always be others who consider our participation and vehicles to be pitifully insignificant.   So I say....WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR SKIRT UP.  Go for it. And if I am ever broken down by the road.....I hope that someone of sympathy will stop by to offer a helping hand.

Bob

[Scot Minesinger]

Robert,

What I object to is withholding needed repairs that are within the means of the collector employing the justification that an investment in these repairs "is more than the car is worth" or "makes them upside down" in the car.  And followed by complaints that the car broke down for lack of maintenance or needed repairs.  Unfortunately, many breakdowns are often preventable on all cars.

If I saw a collector car by the side of the road, I might stop if there was time in my schedule to spare (usually never).  If it was a daily driver broken down no way.  The world is a dangerous place is the main reason.  Conversely, I would not want someone to stop if I brake down, because the world is a dangerous place.  I broke down for the first time in 2016 on the drive back from a trip to relatives (500 miles, halfway home), a bad wheel bearing in my GM truck (10 years old, 140k miles) and a call to triple A, towed, and back on the road in a few hours. 

I live in metropolitan Washington, DC area and the general feel is that if someone is says "hi" to you at a gas station or something they are going to rob you.  My 21 year old son a senior in college now is looking for jobs away from this area for that reason and cost of living. 

[z3skybolt]

Scott,

Sorry you live in such a dangerous community. Fortunately there is life elsewhere and we all have choice. I have traveled the world.... could have made my home almost anywhere ....but happily have chosen to live my life in an area where one can be comfortable with their surroundings.  Sometimes we have to ask ourselves what our life is about anyway? We all end up dead. Along the way...if we are too busy to stop and live.....have we ever truly lived?

Only this morning on the way to the gym....I found a complete stranger who had slid of the icy road and into the ditch. I returned home: took the tow strap out of my LaSalle trunk, returned and pulled the stranger out of the ditch with my Jeep. Folks have helped me many times though the years and I will continue to help them while using a bit of caution and common sense. I would not chose to live otherwise.

As for investment v/s value? Well I have a very sad tale which has been shared on the forum before. In excess of $50,000.00 invested in at 1940 LaSalle 5227. A vehicle worth maybe $20,000.00 in today's market. I didn't start out to get that deeply under water. But along the way it became a passion and I have little regret. I now have a beautiful collector car after which I have lusted for a lifetime.  How can one put a price on a dream come true?

By the way my LaSalle has been towed home twice, before I got it all sorted out. Life with these old cars is a journey not a destination.  Drive them enough and one will end up broken down and looking for help. it is part of the process. And guess what?  In one instance it was a redneck in his beat up pickup truck who stopped to help me while folks in nice, expensive vehicles passed me by...looking at me as though I was another sign post.  Tells us something about our character doesn't it?

What this forum is about?  Cadillac/LaSalle devotees helping one another.  What I have learned here is legion. hopefully I can pass a bit of it along. And...should I see you broken down in one of your 1970 Cadillac.... I will not be afraid to stop.

Sorry this thread has strayed so far from it's original subject. That usually means the thread is nearly exhausted.

Good luck! 

[Scot Minesinger]

Robert,

All the threads stray, so I never feel bad about that.

Maybe people do not get their classics repaired as I would is because there are far fewer shops to do the work.  I do my own, because there are no good shops I know of.

Most of the rest of the Country is very friendly and nice.  DC is very gentrified, but along the side of the highway it is not.  Love traveling back to Ohio where I graduated from High school - everyone is much nicer there. 

And, wow!, I do get sick of hearing people complain about the cost of repairs on their classics that they fail to execute followed by a preventable break down complain story that would not have occurred had they made the repairs.  I'm in the twilight of a demanding career.  Maybe in a decade I will move to a more friendly part of the USA.  Probably will continue to do my own work whenever possible., as also it is rewarding and fun - it is my golf.

[A.D.MunierDucdeCadillac]

Good day,
I am a newbie.
At the risk of offending some members let me provide my unsolicited opinion. The issue with "urban renewal" is neglecting the significance of affordability and livability. These really speak towards the issue of sustainability and its relationship to a project being viable. As long as there is an acceptable financial return on a project, the project is considered viable. But displacement and destruction of certain industry isn't considered. Those aren't the only adverse effects of this phenomenon, but they are the most relevant.
So as old shops no longer have the ability to sustain the increasing pressures of an increasingly expensive market , old customers have to change their relationships with old business owners. For us to have reliable and trustworthy service providers and facilities wel will have to step into the gap. Create automotive coops, a number of people can acquire a space or prolong the occupation of an existing one and come to an agreement with the proprietor based on the economics. Possibly use some bay space some of the time, or have certain pricing schemes and preferential services that they are afforded, but be involved in the prolonged existence of the shop. Also maybe just turn the shop into a shared work space for the old car community and an "Old car guy" man cave.

Honestly old cars aren't dying, nor is the culture concerning them. The damned things a being crushed, but even with that so many examples were produced that there will be something for every damned body and we can inspire the future old car guys to carry the torch (yada blah etc.) It just takes us recognizing the issue and beginning to become our own solutions. Soapbox Dismount.

Thank you.
A. Munier

[Bentley]

I just learned that the chrome shop that re-plated my bumpers has closed. I was told the owner finally realized the building was worth more than the business.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Same problem with my chrome.   The shop closed down, and now, if there is ever a problem with poor quality rearing its ugly head with the pieces, there is no chance of a warranty repair being performed.

Bruce.

[wrench]

As for investment v/s value? Well I have a very sad tale which has been shared on the forum before. In excess of $50,000.00 invested in at 1940 LaSalle 5227. A vehicle worth maybe $20,000.00 in today's market. I didn't start out to get that deeply under water. But along the way it became a passion and I have little regret. I now have a beautiful collector car after which I have lusted for a lifetime.  How can one put a price on a dream come true?

Never add up your receipts...ever!

[Scot Minesinger]

Yes good advise, I have never considered adding up the receipts.

[chrisntam]

I use Quicken money management software.....it's hard not to look....

As others have said though, no regrets and the time spent with the red car is enjoyable.

chris.

[bcroe]

Never add up your receipts...ever!

Right, which is how I distinguish between work and a hobby.  Bruce Roe

[67_Eldo]

On a beautiful day like today -- when the roads are wide open and the car runs so well that I can dust ratty pickup trucks off the line at any given stop light -- the fortune spent in time and money almost seems worthwhile! :-)

[bcroe]

On a beautiful day like today -- when the roads are wide open and the car runs so well that I can dust ratty pickup trucks off the line at any given stop light -- the fortune spent in time and money almost seems worthwhile!

With a 3.21:1 final drive and switch pitch, you may have the advantage. 
Did you finally sort out all the bugs that your shop kept inserting?  It
is why no shop touches my cars.  Bruce Roe