"Guest" Selling Items

[Ted in Olympia WA]

Does it concerns anybody else all these "Guest" that pop up trying to sell stuff?  I not one to talk about being a member (but I'm do plan to be one just have not done so yet) but at least I'm registered to be on the forum.

Just seems like every time someone puts out a wanted ad a "guest" will say they have just the part they need.  Some of these parts are vey odd or rare items.  I find this a bit strange; who are these "guest"?  Since they are guest there is no history, nor can you look up prior posts.

Is this a concern to others members of the forum?

TED

[Otto Skorzeny]

I haven't paid that close attention but I do recall seeing a couple recent posts where someone popped in with an answer to a parts request.

As with any purchase anywhere, Caveat emptor.

I would hope that most of the people here are savvy enough to make smart decisions regarding business dealings with people they don't know.

I woulsd also hope that anybody who smells a rat or gets ripped off would alert us to the scammer.

[76eldo]

I think it should be required to sign up to post.

Many message board require that.  Anyone can read messages, but you should have an ID to post.

Of course it would be even better if the email links didn't work unless you were a member as well.

Brian

[Otto Skorzeny]

I agree with that.

Guests should be able to review the forum but post only if they register.

That wouldn't eliminate all scammers but it would probably cut down on some of the fly-by types who just make mass postings on every buy/sell forum they come across, hoping to scare up a pigeon.

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

My strong belief is that people who post on this forum to (1) sell parts or (2) ask
for advice to help with their needs should be members of this Club.  They should also
post their membership number to provide proof of their standing.

This is the policy that applies to those who wish to ask the volunteer Technicians
for their help.  Providing your membership number is a requirement for this service.
I've been a volunteer Technician for 20 years and the first question I ask is
"Are you a member?" -- and I have my Membership Directory handy to check that.

I don't see the forum as being any different.  There are those who will argue that
"we should not exclude anyone -- we need to encourage membership" -- and I can
support that to a degree.  But -- there are some people who have used this forum
on an ongoing basis for years to sell parts, for example, who have never been members
of this Club and that I believe is inappropriate.

OK -- now I'll await the inevitable backlash.

Mike

[Otto Skorzeny]

Well, you didn't have to wait long, Mike! (about 15 minutes and change)

Not really a backlash but I don't think there is anyone here who would not want to buy a needed part from somebody just because he wasn't a member of the club or the forum.

I'd be willing to bet that 99% of all parts that any of us ever purchase for our cars do not come from CLC members.

Why should a seller be excluded from this forum just because he is not a club member. The two really have no relation to each other.

Some dude parting out a vehicle  shouldn't have to join the CLC just to give members of this forum an opportunity to buy some Cadillac parts.

I know I'd be mighty disappointed if I discovered that somebody who had the rare 1932  rama-lama-ding dong that I'd been looking for for 30 years didn't post it for sale on this site because he wasn't a clc member.

there are some people who have used this forum on an ongoing basis for years to sell parts, for example, who have never been members of this Club and that I believe is inappropriate
What would truly be inappropriate would be to exclude the non members who have valuable parts that the members need. The only people that would be hurt are the very people this forum is designed to help.

[76eldo]

Here's how the Allante club does it...and it works very well.

1.  Anyone can read posts.

2.  You must set up a username and passcode to be able to post

3.  Paid members of the club can also access pages with literature, documents and valuable resources that non-members cannot access.

Brian

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I like the idea of a Guest being able to read the posts, but I have always liked the idea of having to physically Join up as a "Guest" to be able to post a Message.

But, to be a "Guest" one would have to Sign on as a Member does at the moment, which gives actual email and ISP addresses and the like so that the Administrators have the ability to ban and somewhat "Control" the Spammers.   You are all aware of the number of times that the Message Boards have been flooded with Pharmacy and Sex Scams.   Most of these Scams are put there by Guests.

To become a Registered Member of the Forum, one would have to supply their CLC Member Number, and in doing this, they would be able to access deeper into the system.   Like using the Message System.

Bruce.

[Terry Wenger CLC #1800]

I am a long time CLC member (Jan.1968, CLC #1800) and I correspond with the message board as a guest. I registered several years ago and when cleared my computer of "cookies" I was suddenly not registered anymore. So I continue as a guest. Not all guests are non-CLC members.

I am a member of the Pierce-Arrow Society. Their web site is for members only. There is a password used but it remembers it and just verifies my identity and I'm in. When I clean my computer of "cookies" it has no effect.

The other question is that should the message board be only for CLC members.  Like Mike J., I am a technician for several models and revived the whole program after it died from lack of interest many years ago. I can't say I like giving technical information to non-members. To be a Technician, or Authenticity Manual author generally requires someone to have a great amount of reference material involving some expense. It would seem that a person wanting information could at least join the club. There are other avenues to sell parts such as E-bay. Why should the non-members make money from our free advertising? There are other clubs who have members only web sites.

Terry Wenger

[Otto Skorzeny]

Again, I will state that restricting this site to CLC members only will dry up a valuable source of needed parts. I don't begrudge anyone earning a profit on any part I need for my car and I certainly don't purchase parts from CLC members only. That would be counter-productive and frankly, idiotic. How many members of this club actually sell parts with any regularity?

To forbid non CLC members from posting on this site for any reason is a classic example of the old cliche, "cutting off your nose to spite your face". Doing so would hurt only those this site is meant to help and by extension the CLC itself and the hobby.

As for not giving technical information to non-CLC members, that's certainly your choice, Terry. I like to think that most people offering help, technical or otherwise, do so because of their love of the hobby, the Cadillac marque and the general sense of well-being and feeling of camaraderie that comes with helping others with similar interests.

By doing so for anyone, we are promoting the CLC and the Cadillac marque.

How many people do you think have joined the CLC after being helped on this forum? I don't know but I can tell you that if non members are excluded from the site, their is little incentive for them to explore the CLC further.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

G'day Forrest,

Are you a Member of the CLC?

Bruce.

[Otto Skorzeny]

No. Hence no number in my signature.

[Whit Otis, 1188]

Jeez Forrest, for all of your great contributions to the forum in the form of postings and other valuable information (vendor list, for example), I would think you could at least support the club with your membership.... what's a few bucks a year.   Clubs need folks like you on their rolls, not only for your membership dues, but your well thought out posts on this website and other valuable contriubtions.

Best
Whit Otis

[Walter Youshock]

Amen, Whit.

"Don't let your mouth write a check that your (UKW) can't cash!"

...unless there's a kickback to be  made from the infamous "LIST"!

Can't cough up $35/year for CLC dues?  What must it cost to insure a '56 CDV as a Daily-Driver?  In Atlanta?

[Otto Skorzeny]

I'm an iconoclast not a joiner.

What's UKW?

kickback? I wish. Over 1500 hits on this forum before it was removed and about a 1000 at its permanent home on the MCLC.

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

Forrest:

I'm VERY surprised & disappointed to see that you are not a member of the CLC.

Your comments that the forum should be free and open to all (including parts vendors)
without requiring membership now make more sense to me -- since you're not
a member yourself.

It's difficult for me to understand how a guy who drives a '56 daily and contributes so
many informative posts to the forum will not join this Club! 

Your comment that "I'm not a joiner" doesn't cut it -- why not join up and be part of the
future of this Club?  It can't be the membership fee -- small change for anyone who owns
a vintage Caddy.

Why not join and come to the next Grand National in Kansas City and see what the Club
does --  in person -- instead of just on the web site?


Mike

[Glen]

From the CLC website:

We were initially founded to encourage enthusiasts to maintain, preserve, and restore collectible Cadillacs and LaSalles built from 1902-1942. Now the CLC recognizes all vehicles built by Cadillac. We promote the development, collection, publication and exchange of helpful information pertaining to our cars. We also promote social fellowship for club members.

Nowhere does it limit the purpose of the club to members only except for “social fellowship”.  I don’t think it would benefit the club to refuse help to non-members.  And I believe it is counter to the stated purpose of the club to not help someone that needs help with their Cadillac.  The way I read it the line “to encourage enthusiasts to maintain, preserve, and restore collectible Cadillacs and LaSalles” is still in effect and it includes all “enthusiasts” not just club members.  The club is a means to that end, not the other-way-‘round. 

Glen

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

From the CLC website:


Nowhere does it limit the purpose of the club to members only except for “social fellowship”.  I don’t think it would benefit the club to refuse help to non-members.  And I believe it is counter to the stated purpose of the club to not help someone that needs help with their Cadillac.  The way I read it the line “to encourage enthusiasts to maintain, preserve, and restore collectible Cadillacs and LaSalles” is still in effect and it includes all “enthusiasts” not just club members.  The club is a means to that end, not the other-way-‘round. 

Glen

As a Club Technician for over 20 years, I have never refused to assist anyone who calls or E-Mails me whether they are a member or not.  I believe we need to encourage membership in any way we can.

Are you a Technician?  Have you ever contributed to writing an Authenticity manual?  I have and I
can tell you it takes time, money and patience to do it. 

What I object to is those who use the Club services over a period of time -- sometimes for years to sell products, ask for advice and otherwise use the Club facilities (Forum, for example) without paying the membership fee.  This (and just my opinion, not policy) is only in the best interests of furthering the growth of our Club if we can get these people "into the fold" so to speak.

All of us need to encourage these people to join the Club and point out to them the advantages to doing so -- this, I feel, is needed to promote the future growth of the Club and help it prosper.

These services are expensive, and all of us are "carrying the load" for these people who do not support the Club by paying their dues.


Mike

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I am not privy to what the cost of running this Website is, but the CLC is paying all the costs associated with putting it together, and keeping it going for everyone that uses it, and those in the future who will use it.

Membership Dues go towards this valuable part of the CLC.

Bruce.

[Greg Powers]

I'll put my "two-cents-worth" in here. I really don't see a problem in allowing access to the forum for non-members, but to post I think you should have to register. As far as the selling of Cadillac related items, there is no where on the internet that I am familiar with that does not charge for the service of listing your items. Perhaps certain areas within the website could be limited to members only. I am a member of a group that does this with passwords to limit access to current newsletter, technical advise and current advertised items for sale. If people aren't joiners, let them think of it as a listing fee for a classified advertisement.  It troubles me in so many areas of our life people seem to feel that they can "ride"  for free and let others pay the price (neighborhood, church, government). If someone is honestly unable to afford membership, I am sure a region would be glad to adopt them.