Hello everybody - 1936 cadillac convertible -

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Steve,
Just checked the old 1942 MPB. It shows 36, 60,70 & 75 cars having the frame # stamped twice. I think I understand what the book said? Both on the LH frame. One just in front of the cowl & one opposite the battery. Maybe they forgot to stamp both.
Godi, I'm not sure what location you found, but I suggest you search both locations.
HTH, Bob

[Steve Passmore]

Bob, the location for the number I directed Godi to was on top the frame rail just behind the steering box in front of the cowl left hand side, the normal place for these numbers. Iv never heard of another but I guess that's worth checking if at all possible because the battery is under the drivers seat and very little of the frame can be seen there without removing the body?

[godi drexler]

Hello Bob, as Steve tells you I was searching for the VIN Number instantly. The Digits seem to be the correct ones (the design of letters) this means the number hasnt been changed or manipulated. No scratches or other signs of changing something on the frame in this area. I told Steve that I could try to check with several 4 digit options where the car is been delivered then. But it always will cost â,¬ 50.- with no assurance ...
I thought IF the story is true and the NEW YORK Mayor - a member of the government of the US in 1936 - really got the car to give it away as a "political present" could it be that Cadillac gave a VIN to the frame that was outside of the series/production Numbers? Or is it the first car of a series? Misterious anyway.
Steve says I should not give to much attention on the frame number but I believe even in 1936 factorys had a clear system about their productions...

Interesting story.
Maybe we can find out more, I cant find a direct mail contact to Michael of romania, and the official bureau of the royal familyof romania is not answering. 

Godi

Ps : By the way how do you like the "safety door lock" used to lock the trunk? 

[godi drexler]

Sorry guys, I posted this without checking that there were two more posts of you on the next side... 

I will check for the VIN in the Batterybox area! Where exactly should I look for it?

Thanks Godi

[Steve Passmore]

I don't know where you can check Godi, I have just had a good look at my car and there's no top section of the chassis rail in sight through the battery hole. I do not remember any other numbers in that area when the body was off and I sand blasted the frame

[godi drexler]

Yes Steve thats what I wanted to ask you, you should have found something as you did a true frame off restoration...
I searched today but nothing found, I  even checked the frame underneath the front floor panel which I can take out. 

Anyway I am thankfull for any idea or tip that somebody may have.

Godi

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Guys,
You might need a mirror to see the one near the battery. Godi, yes, the looks of  those #'s are correct for the era. Unless we can determine all 7 #'s, you will be wasting money.
Steve, if your frame is clean, it may be easier for you to find those #'s. Wish I could be there in person to help both of you look.
HTH, Bob

[Steve Passmore]

My frame was sand blasted by myself Bob and painted, My blaster is very small, the chassis took me two days. I'm sure I would have seen any other numbers when I was doing these processes.
My numbers on the front stand out very well.

I don't think even a mirror would help if there are numbers near the battery because the underside of the floor near the battery is less than an inch above the chassis with all sorts of strengthening channels spot welded to the underside of the floor. You cant get your fingers in there let alone a mirror.
Best hop on a plane Bob and we'll go together

[tozerco]

Steve etc.,

Here's an interesting possibility:

Maybe, just maybe, this was exported as a rolling chassis and body with NO engine, hence the lack of the last numbers on the chassis and the strange engine??

Otherwise it should certainly have had more numbers as you say.

Regards,

[Steve Passmore]

Hi John
Love to see new ideas here but the engine, gearbox, back axle and rear wheels are all from a early 80s Soviet 4x4 military vehicle so must have been swopped out during or later than that  period.

We had many US cars imported during this era in chassis form as did you in Aus no doubt but I have  never seen a single record that there were bare chassis imports,  they all carried the running gear.
The body is pucker US convertible there's no doubt about that so I cant imagine anyone then importing the correct body separately to build this thing.  Curiouser and Curiouser!

[Hilarius]

Hi Steve, Bob and Godi,
I am in the midst of restoring a 1940 75 series car and have the body off the chassis.
Brad Ipsen told me to look for the production number which is the same as the VIN but is located farther down the same left side rail that the VIN is on. After some searching before blasting I uncovered that number under the rust, indeed. It would, unfortunately, be difficult to see with the body on, as with the proposal about it being near the battery case.
I attach a picture of the bare frame, blasted and painted, with the VIN surrounded by a green stripe and the production number visible as a bright spot on the same side rail.
Maybe that could be an identifying possibility if Cadillac used to stamp the frames twice also in 1936.
Hilarius.

[godi drexler]

Wow, thanks to everybody!!
I am planning to take out the romanian engine the next days if I find the time to do so. The next step will be to seperate body and frame, then I will be able to check for other numbers better.
@Hilmar: Are  you german? Your name sounds like that. Thanks for the picture - very helpful!
@ Bob: What is "MPB"? There you found the hint to the second frame nr.

Different question: I have a wooden "plate" mounted to the firewall of the car from the inside, doesnt look original, was possibly mounted to insulate the car against the cold in romania. But I am not quite shure if it s orig. or not. I want to take it out but maybe it belongs there? Its about 1,5 inch thick....
Attached a pic of the (wrong I know) installed wipermotor, but behind it you can see the firewall - I am talking about the orange stuff there...
And another interesting picture - just for your entertainment. The gas tank (wich wasnt the correct one anyway) was also wrapped in plastik foil and tied together with cable etc.. I guess insulation against the cold as well.
I believe the car was used as a daily driver in romania during the 1970ties and 80ties so it just had to work. It wasnt something special then loke for us nowadays - just an old car!

Now thats what I call a cars history! 

Godi

[Steve Passmore]

Godi,
Yes, Hilmar is in the same country as you, maybe you can get together some day.

MPB is Master Parts Book.

No, the wooden plate is not correct, its supposed to be a thick fiber firewall insulator with another fiber board painted surface facing the interior, usually black or brown, quite flexible compared to solid wood.   Most rotted away and I guess wood seemed the next best thing to the Romanians. Hard to work and get into place I imagine.

Very interesting seeing the second number on Hilmars frame, that gives you another possibility there Godi, weird if it was also the short number eh?

[Steve Passmore]

Godi, after what Bob said about the second number and the picture that Hilmar posted I decided to take another look at my car, I removed the seat and battery, got a good light and some 80 grit paper and using the position on the frame shown in Hilmars picture got my hand down under the floor at that position and rubbed furiously then got my head into the battery cage,     and there it was, so very faint I missed it when blasting, in fact the top half of all the numbers didn't get stamped properly but it was there, on top of the outside frame rail midway of the battery cage. You don't need to remove the body.
So faint are these number though that if I didn't have the front numbers I would have trouble reading what they were.
Go for it and see what you can find.

[godi drexler]

Wowsa! Steve! I already looked carefully but now I know what to do tomorrow! : ) Take a even better look! I can imagine you rubbing furiously. : )
Thank you guys you re all so great!
I will let you know if I can find something tomorrow! For sure!

So exciting! I love it!

Godi

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Steve & Hilmar,
Thanks for the input. We may be able to get the full frame # yet.
Godi,
I would suggest you NOT  pull the body until you have a restoration plan in mind. Here's my suggestion. Find a solid 1936 70 series sedan  donor car. I think one could be located for a reasonable price at this time. Use it to restore your car to stock. Your car s so rare that it would be a shame to make a custom out of it. Keep us posted. I think Steve indicated that you can find that other # without pulling the body.
Bob

[Steve Passmore]

Steve & Hilmar,
Here's my suggestion. Find a solid 1936 70 series sedan  donor car. I think one could be located for a reasonable price at this time.
Bob

My sentiments exactly Bob, and Godi and I have discussed this at some length, If it were mine its what I'd do but the problem for me would be the time frame waiting for a good donor car to come along, how long have I got left?   Cant say Iv ever seen a 70 series sedan that needed restoring since Iv had mine, that's what I was hoping for when I bought it, would have saved me 10 years,.      I appreciate we cant get to hear about every one for sale in the US living so far away, and at what price a 36 anyway?

There was a barn find 60 series recently which would have donated very little as most of it is wildly different so it really must be a 70, even then none of the interior trim would be any good or body panels.
Ideally would be a donor sport coupe but I think the price of even an un- restored one would be prohibitive.
Spares for these cars are incredibly hard to find, I have been looking for parts for my car for the past 12 years and even now still have some bits missing having had a lot of it made as bits just never came up.    Many, Many things are peculiar to just this one year, door handle, wheels etc.

We had (dare I say it) even considered a body swop with my coupe to save the convertible but by my reckoning there are 5 coupes known and 5 convertibles also, so they are equally as rare and I just couldn't justify the benefits.

[godi drexler]

Steve, Bob, Hilmar, everybody! Just came in from searching for the second, the "battery -vin", like I call it from now on.
And what can I say? I ve found it!!!!!!  Attached picture  - upside down for better reading- shows it exactly.
And if you believe it or not, its the well known 3A 1. : )   

So, no mistakes, no forgotten digits, no manipulation, no drunken cadillac worker here, this is the correct frame number of my car.
Lets think of my following ideas: Talking about the FRAME Numbers, not the enginenr or VIN, I believe this is the first produced frame in 1936. dont get me wrong, I dont care to be the first, just to understand the system at cadillacs in the 30ties.
I believe they just stamped one produced frame after the other starting with 1 up to (besides the 3A) four digits 5985 or whatsoever.
Tell you why I believe this: Steves car has a (again beside the 3A) 3 digit Number on its frame - undepending what his official VIN might say! His frame should have a zero put in somewhere to always get 4 digits...
They couldnt know how much they are going produce this year, so they started with 1. Makes sence to me.
So the next logic step for me is to try this VIN check you were talking about, tiping in the "311 0001" and see what happens.
Let me hear about your suggestions! Can somebody send a link to that?

The other theme how to go on with this car: Hard to tell, if anyone knows a coupe (maybe different year or lasalle like vinnar foud it) I am thinking about to swap or pay difference because I personally prefer hardtops then convertibles but I dont have a better idea what to do yet.

Cant stop to thank everybody for this phantastic support, this should be reason enough to keep her.

Godi

[Steve Passmore]

I have to concede Godi, seems like you could be right from the start.

Tread carefully swopping bodies as the smaller series frames are shorter and narrower.

The company for the build sheet is Allied Vaughn, and their site is

www.gmmediaarchive.com/?page=2

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Godi,
That's a very interesting theory. So... it's going to cost you $50 to submit that #. Let us know what the invoice says. In the mean time, unless you have a plan... don't take anything apart. It sounds like you are somewhat undecided on what you really want. Keep it together as a roller. Much easier to sell or trade.
Bob