Dilbert and restoring old cars.

[TJ Hopland]

I like ABS.  Maybe if I was not in a freezing climate I would not care as much.  Guessing if I ever have a real crash I would also like some if the crumple zones and impact beams.  Then again who knows depending on the accident maybe being killed instantly in an older car would be a better deal.......

A properly equipped Fleetwood can tow 7,000 lbs.  No need for a beast.

The list of 'proper equipment' is likely quite long to achieve that.  I would bet it includes a weight distributing hitch which did / does not exist in the factory authorized catalog and they can't be fitted to all types of trailers.   Went through that with a new car of mine a few years ago, they advertise its possible but don't offer the parts to do it.  When I pressed the issue you should see what they came up with, it was about 200 pounds of aftermarket crap to add to the back of the car that would then void the warranty not to mention make the car drag its rear even before hooking up the trailer.

Ever tow a decent size load with a real tow rig like a dually pickup?   I used to think a 1/2 ton or full size car could tow anything and often did tow things much heavier than the car itself.   I then owned a dually for a while.  Now I am uncomfortable towing 5,000 with a 2500HD.  You get much over 5000 and a goose neck or 5th wheel is the way to go.  You compare those to a bumper tow and never want to go back either.

Non full floating rear ends don't tend to do well with loads especially long term and the 700 4r 4L60 transmissions found in the 1500 trucks and cars like the Fleetwood had a very weak overdrive so you could not use it towing.  Not a huge problem except if you did not use OD you had a lubrication / cooling problem.  Those were not issues the 400 or 4L80 had which you got with the 2500+ trucks. 

I really don't get how with no real changes to the overall truck the are now getting a 10,000 capacity out of what used to be a S-10 sized rig.   You also have to check with the states you will be towing in.   Some states have additional rules that kick in if the trailer weighs more than the tow rig.   Its actually quite a mess if you are going interstate with a significant load.   Only thing that still gets you around most of it is if you qualify as an RV.  Even at that you have to be careful how you answer questions by the state patrol.   Its one of those annoying government things that seems like it should be easy but will make your head spin till you give up or hire someone else to deal with it.   

[Louis Smith]

"Gimmicks" (not necessarily a term I would use) are what Cadillac and other brands have long used to try to separate themselves from each other.

You can talk about today’s "gimmicks" but some people had the same kind of reaction to things like power windows many decades ago.   People are too lazy to crank windows?  Why do you need such an expensive ($1,000+ in today's dollars back in the 1950s) device that is just going to break down?, etc.

Every "older" generation seems to have something to complain about regarding modern cars vs. cars of their past.

I agree 100%.  In the past, buyers wanted Cadillacs to show that they have "arrived".

[cadillacmike68]

....but Fleetwoods are no longer produced.

But as long as you don't crash them, they last forever! 

[Louis Smith]

But as long as you don't crash them, they last forever! 

That could be said just about for any car ever produced, with the disclaimer, "as long as an owner was willing to pump the money into keeping it running"  Of course in a relatively short period of time, the vehicle would be greatly "modified".

[bcroe]

My power window story is simple.  Every one of my cars with them has had failures.  Every
car without them, no failures.  Power locks are OK, because there is a manual backup. 

I have a shelf of failed & removed stuff I don't need.  Power antenna, cruise control, power
trunk pulldown, twilight sentinal, automatic leveling, the rear disks required addition of a
proportioning valve.  Please don't even talk to me about electronic throttle.  Don't know if
the radio works, haven't turned it on in a dozen years. 

Bruce Roe

[Louis Smith]

My power window story is simple.  Every one of my cars with them has had failures.  Every
car without them, no failures.  Power locks are OK, because there is a manual backup. 

I have a shelf of failed & removed stuff I don't need.  Power antenna, cruise control, power
trunk pulldown, twilight sentinal, automatic leveling, the rear disks required addition of a
proportioning valve.  Please don't even talk to me about electronic throttle.  Don't know if
the radio works, haven't turned it on in a dozen years. 

Bruce Roe

Why bother to be in the hobby, if all these problems causes you grief?  No radio turned on?  Sounds unAmerican to me 

[bcroe]

Why bother to be in the hobby, if all these problems causes
you grief?  No radio turned on?  Sounds unAmerican to me   

My secret is out.  I started driving late 70s cars when they were new, and continue through
today.  I started with 60s cars, which needed a lot of maintenance.  Could tell dozens of
stories of "mechanics" & dealers messing up my cars, which I would correct myself. 
Eventually I just learned to do it all myself.  The 70s are simple & need much less
maintenance, parts are cheap.  I drive only them every day, ITS NOT A HOBBY.  So far,
have never paid more than $9K for a car; saved fortunes on parts & labor.  I use 304
stainless plumbing to cut maintenance even more, I just want to drive them.  Bruce Roe

[Louis Smith]

Bruce you and me are in the same camp. Since I got involved with, shall we say, older cars, I have always used them quite frequently.  Not every day, as there are times when I want reliability, but for all intents and purposes, they are every day cars.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

With all due respect, none of your statements apply to the modern Crossover vehicles.
"So called safety bits"  Surely you jest.

You seem to contradict yourself with the self locking doors.  Since you acknowledge the presence of car jackers today, aren't the self locking doors a good idea?
I believe was Cadillac that introduced the "sentinel lights" more then 45 years ago.  Why?  It gave the driver an added feeling of security when they left their car at night, by giving him/her a lighted path to their front door.
The best feature of the TV cameras, is the ability to see what is directly behind a vehicle that wouldn't normally be able to be seen, such as bicycle on the ground or a small child playing in ones driveway.
Today's modern Crossover vehicles, have greatly eliminated blind spots of the past.  Not to mention the over sized rear view mirrors.  I might add that I have installed those small mirrors on my rear view mirrors just to give me added vision safety.
I have had SUV's, trucks, vans and crossovers for over 20 years and never felt safer.
The only reason a buyer gets "conned" is because they allow themselves.  This is not in defense of dealers both legitimate and unscrupulous.  Sure many times a buyer will drive home in more car then they set out to buy, but rarely do they have buyers remorse.
Oh yes, a buyer doesn't have to go to different dealers to get the car they want.  Using the Internet, they can "build" the car they want, and the website, will tell them which dealer has the vehicle they want.  If the vehicle is at a dealer that is some distance from where the buyer lives, they can simply go to the nearest dealer, the dealer will search out the vehicle on their data base, and have the car shipped to them, at no added cost to the customer.  It really is, especially now, a buyers market.

The trouble with modern vehicles is that they need all the aforementioned items as it is impossible for a normally-seated driver to see anything around their vehicles simply because the bet-lines are so high, the pillars so thick, and the rear windows so small that quick observations are impossible.    The requirements of roll-over protection and Supplementary Restraint Systems (Air Bags) necessitate that all the pillars be thick to accommodate their fitment, and he hge head rests are in the way.     Sit inside any car from 1955 to 1977, and eve up to the late '90's,and with a turn of the head, you can see all four corners of the vehicle, sides, front and rear, clearly and unobstructed, and the roadway and other surfaces not very far away from the vehicle.

The trouble with the SUV's is that people buy them because they are higher up off the road, and they give the idea that they are safer for the occupants.   The truth is that they were cheaper to make initially because they didn't have to comply with the same regulations as the dedicated Passenger-carrying Vehicle, as in the Sedan, Coupe or Station Wagon.   Th reason these vehicles figure so high in accident statistics is because drivers get out of a sedan with a lower centre of gravity, and attempt to drive the new vehicle in the same way.   They forget, or have not been instructed in the handling differences between both types.   When you are involved in the aftermath of Fatal and Serious Crashes for dozens of years, it doesn't take long to find out that it was inexperience that caused the SUV to roll over.
 
I never jest about anything to do with vehicle safety, that is both the vehicle and occupants.   Pedestrians, that is a different matter, and even pedestrians should learn the rules of walking on the footpaths safely, and interacting with moving objects, as in not getting hit by them.

The matter of the self-locking doors is sadly a direct response to those in our society that don't "Play by the rules" and try and take what is not theirs to take.

I am glad that the buyer of my own Eldorado opted for the Twilight Sentinel as I had to use it one to get to where I was going after I alighted from the car.   It was so dark outside, and with no light on in my destination, I couldn't see a thing.   Out in the country, there is no refracted lights from a city that was 50 miles away to assist me.

Bruce.

[Louis Smith]

The trouble with modern vehicles is that they need all the aforementioned items as it is impossible for a normally-seated driver to see anything around their vehicles simply because the bet-lines are so high, the pillars so thick, and the rear windows so small that quick observations are impossible.    The requirements of roll-over protection and Supplementary Restraint Systems (Air Bags) necessitate that all the pillars be thick to accommodate their fitment, and he hge head rests are in the way.     Sit inside any car from 1955 to 1977, and eve up to the late '90's,and with a turn of the head, you can see all four corners of the vehicle, sides, front and rear, clearly and unobstructed, and the roadway and other surfaces not very far away from the vehicle.

The trouble with the SUV's is that people buy them because they are higher up off the road, and they give the idea that they are safer for the occupants.   The truth is that they were cheaper to make initially because they didn't have to comply with the same regulations as the dedicated Passenger-carrying Vehicle, as in the Sedan, Coupe or Station Wagon.   Th reason these vehicles figure so high in accident statistics is because drivers get out of a sedan with a lower centre of gravity, and attempt to drive the new vehicle in the same way.   They forget, or have not been instructed in the handling differences between both types.   When you are involved in the aftermath of Fatal and Serious Crashes for dozens of years, it doesn't take long to find out that it was inexperience that caused the SUV to roll over.
 
I never jest about anything to do with vehicle safety, that is both the vehicle and occupants.   Pedestrians, that is a different matter, and even pedestrians should learn the rules of walking on the footpaths safely, and interacting with moving objects, as in not getting hit by them.

The matter of the self-locking doors is sadly a direct response to those in our society that don't "Play by the rules" and try and take what is not theirs to take.

I am glad that the buyer of my own Eldorado opted for the Twilight Sentinel as I had to use it one to get to where I was going after I alighted from the car.   It was so dark outside, and with no light on in my destination, I couldn't see a thing.   Out in the country, there is no refracted lights from a city that was 50 miles away to assist me.

Bruce.

Bruce, allow me to state how I see things, pun intended.  To begin with, I have not purchased a new car, since 1985.  Starting in 1991, I started acquiring "Trucks", with a 1991 Chevy Blazer.  When I first sat in, I immediately saw how much more safer it was then a car.  I was surrounded by glass, basically eliminating any blind spots.  The outside rear view mirrors were almost 4X the size of standard car outside rear view mirrors.  Yes I did sit higher, which besides, making it easier to get in and out of, gave me a better view of the surrounding traffic.  I do think that initially there were complaints of the SUV's flipping over, because of the higher center of gravity.  I believe the TV show "60 minutes" did a piece on this.  Oh yes this is the same "60 minutes" that did a very negative piece on how unsafe Audi's were, and it really hurt the company.  It was later reported that "60 minutes" was less then honest with its reporting.  Getting back to SUV's flipping over, they showed how the vehicles were prone to flipping over.  Of course they showed this in extreme situations.  I don't think in my having SUV's/trucks for the last 22 years, I have ever seen a flipped over SUV on the highway.  The way "60 minutes" reported the situation, you would think they were dropping like flies.

By saying that accidents happen when drivers go from a SUV to sedan, just tells me that the accidents are caused by driver error.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

By saying that accidents happen when drivers go from a SUV to sedan, just tells me that the accidents are caused by driver error. 

Louis, you have hit it right on the head.   

I have always said that drivers are to blame for 99.9% of crashes.   It is the "Nut" behind the wheel.   Driver training is virtually non-existant once one gets their initial Drivers Licence.   We all know the rules of the road, well, some of us, and one passes all the tests, gets the Licence, then remembers what the Red Light is for, and immediately abandons the staying on the posted speed limit, amber lights, etc. etc.   But, complains that when they get booked for speeding, that it is "revenue-raising".

Bruce.

PS.   And, I wish people would stop referring to Crashes as Accidents!!!!!!!   Accidents do happen, but Crashes are caused by someone doing something wrong.   After over 32 years as a Law Enforcement Officer, I have heard all the excuses.

[Louis Smith]

Louis, you have hit it right on the head.   

I have always said that drivers are to blame for 99.9% of crashes.   It is the "Nut" behind the wheel.   Driver training is virtually non-existant once one gets their initial Drivers Licence.   We all know the rules of the road, well, some of us, and one passes all the tests, gets the Licence, then remembers what the Red Light is for, and immediately abandons the staying on the posted speed limit, amber lights, etc. etc.   But, complains that when they get booked for speeding, that it is "revenue-raising".

Bruce.

PS.   And, I wish people would stop referring to Crashes as Accidents!!!!!!!   Accidents do happen, but Crashes are caused by someone doing something wrong.   After over 32 years as a Law Enforcement Officer, I have heard all the excuses.

Well put, and worse of all, things are getting worse with all the texting and cell phone use of today.  It is really easy to know when someone is texting or using their cell phone is ahead of you, as they are constantly adjusting their speed, and wavering all over their lane.  You are so correct when you state how people know how to operate a car, but are clueless when it comes to operating a motor vehicle safely.

[Big Apple Caddy]

Oh yes this is the same "60 minutes" that did a very negative piece on how unsafe Audi's were, and it really hurt the company.

Those that leased Audis in 1986 were quite thankful they hadn't bought instead given what the 60 Minutes report did to Audi resales soon after!!

[Louis Smith]

Those that leased Audis in 1986 were quite thankful they hadn't bought instead given what the 60 Minutes report did to Audi resales soon after!!

Yes quite true, but the fact was, that the Audi's were unjustly given a bad name.

On 23 November 1986, 60 Minutes aired a segment greenlit by Hewitt, concerning the Audi 5000 automobile, a popular German luxury car. The story covered a supposed problem of "unintended acceleration" when the brake pedal was pushed, with emotional interviews with six people who sued Audi (unsuccessfully) after they crashed their cars, including one woman whose six-year-old boy had been killed. Footage was shown of an Audi 5000 with the accelerator moving down on its own, accelerating the car, after an expert witness employed by one of the plaintiffs modified it with a concealed device to cause it to do so.[20] Independent investigators concluded this was most likely due to driver incompetence, where the driver let their foot slip off the brake and onto the accelerator. Tests by Audi and independent journalists showed that even with the throttle wide open, the car would simply stall if the brakes were actually being used.[21]

The incident devastated Audi sales in the United States, which did not rebound for 15 years. The initial incidents which prompted the report were found by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and Transport Canada to have been attributable to operator error, where car owners had depressed the accelerator pedal instead of the brake pedal. CBS issued a partial retraction, without acknowledging the test results of involved government agencies.[22] Years later, Dateline NBC, a rival to 60 Minutes, was found guilty of similar tactics regarding the fuel tank integrity of General Motors pickup trucks.

[cadillacmike68]

...The list of 'proper equipment' is likely quite long to achieve that.  I would bet it includes a weight distributing hitch which did / does not exist in the factory authorized catalog and they can't be fitted to all types of trailers.   Went through that with a new car of mine a few years ago, they advertise its possible but don't offer the parts to do it.  When I pressed the issue you should see what they came up with, it was about 200 pounds of aftermarket crap to add to the back of the car that would then void the warranty not to mention make the car drag its rear even before hooking up the trailer....

My boat only weighs 2,000lbs empty, maybe 600lbs more for the trailer and a full tank of fuel. a W/D hitch is uncalled for.

The equipment items not on my car are the heavy duty rear brakes (wider) and the 3.4:1 rear axle. These are easily added / replaced if i want to go over 5,000 lbs, but I don't plan to. A weight distributing hitch for loads b/w  5-7,000lbs would be needed, but again they can easily be installed here in FL, IF i ever planned to tow something that heavy which I don't. 

The boss lady and i are still considering just selling the boat , to achieve that second happiest day in a boat owner's life, the first being the day the bought is bought.

BOAT:
Break
Out
Another
Thousand

Therefore, in the final analysis, the Fleetwood is fine for me and a lot more appealing than a beastie.

[Louis Smith]

My boat only weighs 2,000lbs empty, maybe 600lbs more for the trailer and a full tank of fuel. a W/D hitch is uncalled for.

The equipment items not on my car are the heavy duty rear brakes (wider) and the 3.4:1 rear axle. These are easily added / replaced if i want to go over 5,000 lbs, but I don't plan to. A weight distributing hitch for loads b/w  5-7,000lbs would be needed, but again they can easily be installed here in FL, IF i ever planned to tow something that heavy which I don't. 

The boss lady and i are still considering just selling the boat , to achieve that second happiest day in a boat owner's life, the first being the day the bought is bought.

BOAT:
Break
Out
Another
Thousand

Therefore, in the final analysis, the Fleetwood is fine for me and a lot more appealing than a beastie.

Seems to me, that if one could afford a Cadillac, they should be able to keep their boat in a marina, and not have to tow it.  Taking it one step further, I don't think any self respecting Cadillac owner would want to have a boat, so small that it could be towed 

The best of both worlds, all wrapped up in one nice package.

[cadillacmike68]

Ha Ha! That was funny 

The only reason we got a boat was because it was summer and i had gotten rear-ended in my DVC. It took over 4 months to get a bumper and get the necessary work done to repair the car, so to keep busy, we got a boat.