1968 DeVille Convertible - Restoration

[DeVille68]

Lovely shot of your fingerprints.

I would suggest removing that picture, and replacing it with one that isn't so detailed as to encourage an individual with devious thoughts to go out and commit crimes, using a copy of those.

Bruce.

PS.   And yes, some people should be hung, drawn and quartered for performing such horrible repairs.

Oh, gosh, never would have thought about that, but you are probably right! :-D

The grease and dirt on my hand made a nice contrast media 

[DeVille68]

Regarding the power seat switch, according to my master parts catalog the correct switch is:

66-72 Exc. 69733 (Elec.-6-way) 9711651 5.80 SWITCH, in LH seat bottom side panel 1

Number 9711651  was also used through:  60-61, 62, 63-64, 66-72, 73-74
--> So, from 60 to 74 without the year 65
(also possibly longer, but my book stops at 74)

The spacing of the controls is correct, but the mounting holes not. Original my panel calls for a distance of 3-3/4'' between the mounting holes.
The switch that was installed measured 4-1/4'' between the mounting holes.
They were able to mount the switch, but it does not fit right into the panel.

I would like to buy a correct switch. Does anyone has a picture of a correct one?

There are several listings on ebay, but I am having a hard time to judge which one would be correct.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/70-Cadillac-6-Way-Power-Bench-Seat-Switch-with-Wire-Harness-Connector/402524591445?hash=item5db855d555:g:d3MAAOSwkdpfnVJ6

https://www.ebay.com/itm/69-76-CADILLAC-BUICK-OLDS-PONTIAC-CHEVY-6-WAY-POWER-BENCH-SEAT-SWITCH-CONTROL/124249932958?hash=item1ceddf849e:g:bGIAAOSwHlVfA4YN

Thanks for your help
Best regards,
Nicolas

[Roger Zimmermann]

The first one is most probably incorrect: from the shape, it's installed ON the molding, not from behind.

[Trace]

68 Deville Conv. Power seat switch.
Ignore the nasty interior condition.

[DeVille68]

Hi Tracy

Thanks for that picture! It seems to be the switch I was expecting to see. The countersunk hole in the panel need to fit inside the countersunk hole of the switch in order for the knobs to line up nicely.

Roger, unfortunately, I did not find any build sheet. I guess the id*** before me threw those away...

It really is not funny - I had and have to go through everything the previous mechanics did and redo and correct their work. 
I do make mistakes too, but in the end it is usually oke.

Best regards,
Nicolas

[DeVille68]

Hello

Some updates.
A) I damaged the fuel sending unit while trying to find another fuel leak that developed. Well I guess it was just the old rubber hose that I installed because I did not have time to buy a new one. Will replace those now. Unfortunately I do need to replace the ohm sending unit, which was still original but was not working to my satisfaction although I cleaned it inside and checked the ohm readings. It kept bouncing around and not showing full when the tank was really overfull.
Well anyways, I used a potentiometer to simulate the sending unit, this way I could make absolutely sure that the fuel gauge in the instrument panel was working right. Check out the pictures below, I show the gauge and then the ohm reading of the potentiometer. Its very accurate actually, I was kind of surprised, you could basically see every ohm difference in a change in needle position.

B) I fixed all the wiring issues. Re-soldered the crimped (and now badly corroded connections) connections. I protected the interior. I am about ready to cut the floor! :-)

C) Started restoring the seat mechanism. Just cleaned all the mechanism and gears. Threw them into my ultra sonic cleaner, dried them, put in bearing grease and put em back together.

Best regards,
Nicolas

[DeVille68]

more pictures

[Roger Zimmermann]

You will be busy this winter!

[DeVille68]

Hello

Just a small update regarding the floor. I did cut out most of the rust, I left the area around the drain hole in there because the replacement panel has some issues that I need to work out.
As you can see below the structures in the original metal are pretty deep I am guessing about an 1/4''. However on the replacement panel the dept is only 1/8'' at most. The good thing is that the structure are all there and at the correct location. The sheet metal thickness is correct, just like factory.
So I now need to find a way to make those structures deeper, because otherwise I will have troubles fitting the replacement metal and lining it up for welding will be difficult too.

You can see in the fotos that the underlying brace is still in perfect condition, which tells me that the rust issue really came from the top. When I got the car all seals were brittle and the first thing I did was replacing all the seals. The passenger side floor pan looks good, so I might assume that there are no more rust problems on this car.
Don't throw away the little tap that is welded on the underside of the floor, it holds the speedometer cable!

Has anyone an idea on how to make those structures deeper without a shrinker / stretcher machine?


Best regards,
Nicolas

[Roger Zimmermann]

You may try with a heavy hammer, plus scrap steel. Two pieces at the back each side of the recess you want to have deeper, another scrap steel into that recess and bam, bam, bam! Be careful not to break the hammer's handle! It's mere or less the method I used to shape the floor pieces from my '56 Biarritz.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

G'day Nicholas,

The only way to make them deeper, without total distortion of the surrounding metal, is going to be with the use of heat, making mandrels, both male and female, and a big hammer.

When I made the replacement panels for a '71 Eldo, I used two pieces of 3/8" steel plate, and 1/4"steel rod, and welded the rods to the plate, in such a way that when the sheet metal was sandwitched between the two plates, belting the top piece with a 14 Lb. Sledge Hammer created the indentations.

I only did straight ones, which replicated the Eldorado floor, but other shapes can be created by bending the rods to shape, and the opposite side the same, with clearance to allow the forming.

The reason I say use heat is that as the shape is already there, going cold will tend to shrink the metal overall, whereas heating up just the part to be deepened (re-shaped) will not cause problems with the surrounding metal, as only the indentation will stretch to fit.

Bruce.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Bruce, you can explain much better what I intended to say!

[DeVille68]

Thanks Roger and Bruce, great idea.

Best regards,
Nicolas

[savemy67]

Hello Nicolas,

As Roger and Bruce explained, you are trying to duplicate the process by which the original and replacement sheet metal was formed.  This may be more effort than it is worth expending.

When the original and replacement panels were formed, the sheet metal is deformed.  When it is deformed, the steel gets "work hardened" in the areas of deformation.  The steel is never annealed after deformation, so it remains harder in the areas of deformation.  If you attempt to deform the metal 100 percent in the same locations, by increasing the depth of the deformation from 1/8" to 1/4", you may not get the results you anticipate.  You could pound away with a hammer and not achieve the depth you want, or you might tear the metal.

Bruce suggests the use of heat, which if applied properly and allowed to cool, will anneal the metal making it easier to work.  You could also make a set of dies from wood, and use a hydraulic press instead of a hammer.  I think this is too much effort for very little gain.

When getting into a convertible, a passenger will step on the floor before sitting in the seat.  What load does the floor need to handle to maintain its shape and minimize deflection under the load?  Where is the sub-floor bracket/brace in relation to the replacement panel?  Will you weld in the replacement panel using a butt joint or a lap joint?  The replacement panel should be welded to the bracket/brace using plug welds (unless you have a resistance spot welder with appropriate tips).

I am suggesting you concentrate your efforts on making sure the replacement panel fits perfectly, and is welded in properly.  I don't think the difference in depth between the factory floor and the replacement panel is significant enough to warrant re-working the replacement panel's indentations.

Respectfully submitted,

Christopher Winter

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Plus, the only people that will see the completed article are those that are in the process of being run over, and I am pretty sure that they won't have time to see it.

When I was mentioning using heat, I was talking about heating up the area to be reformed and then hitting it whilst it is hot, and pliable.   This will need to be a two-person operation so the panel can be "moved" whilst it is still really hot.

I have since "invested" in an Arbor Press for such tasks, but that has its' limitations, unlike the Sledge Hammer method which can cover a vast area.

Plus, here are the Sledge Hammers I use, plus the "Anvil" which is that heavy that no way will 4 people lift it.   It is solid steel, and originally came from a Tow Motor and acted as a weight to hold the machine onto the ground so it didn't slip as it towed trolleys on the deck.   It takes me all my strength to roll it around.

Bruce.

[DeVille68]

Hello Christopher,

Hm..ok, Have not thought about work hardening so far. Unfortunately, at the garage of my car I don't have a press. At my fathers place there is one. There is this brace below the floor pan, so I guess this is what gives the floor the strength to support the weight of a person stepping in.
I plan to weld butt joints on the perimeter and on the front and in the middle where the brace is I plan to replicate the spot welds.

Hi Bruce,
ohw wow, those hammers are pretty decent! :-D I would fear of not being too accurate with those tools.

My plan is now to make a die out of hard wood and try to form at least the dips a bit deeper to make it fit better where the metal transitions.

I hope to get started soon, keep watching for updates.

Best regards,
Nicolas

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Hi Bruce,
ohw wow, those hammers are pretty decent! :-D I would fear of not being too accurate with those tools.   

Nicholas,
The beauty of the sledge hammers, when used in conjunction with the aforementioned steel formers, one doesn't have to expel much energy, apart from lifting up the big one, and guiding it downwards to strike the heck out of the top former, to squash the panel steel between the top and the bottom.   If it isn't deep enough, bash it again, but harder.

I use smaller ones for intricate forming, and the larger ones for "anvilling" when using the small ones.

Remember that the factory forming is probably handled by presses applying many many Tons, and all in one go.

Bruce.

[DeVille68]

Hello

I need some advice: I cleaned up the fisher emblem on the side of the seat. The paint was half missing and the chrome was not shiny anymore. It cleaned up nicely but now every bit of paint is gone.

I tried to put the black back into the recessed area by using a paint marker. No success. Then I tried model color, it did work, but when it started to dry and I wiped off the excess some of the paint in the lower areas came loose.

So now, you can see in the foto below that the emblem is clean - how to apply the black paint in the lower areas?

Thanks
Nicolas

[Roger Zimmermann]

I would wait until dry and then scrape the excess paint. Or, eliminate the excess paint immediately. Paint does not stick well on chrome.

[Trace]

Nicolas, Dupli-Color and VHT make an 'adhesion promoter', which would be sprayed on slick surfaces (like chrome) before their anodized paint is sprayed on. Goes on clear; ... dries clear;  ..... sticks to everything, and everything sticks to it. It might be what that emblem needs ...