Prices on "rare" and older cars.

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

I really wonder at the mindset of people who find an older Cadillac or LaSalle and think they've won the Publisher's Clearing House first prize. In other words,"set for life," as there is some collector out there who is going to fight them for the right to accept all the cash money they will be willing to pay for the privilege of owning the car.

Why don't they do some investigating on the Web and find out what you can buy for the same amount of $$$ that they think they can get for a piece of junk? One of my friends has come across a car in the thirties that is basically "done." The price is $26K and the guy makes it very, very clear he is willing to take less.


The two cars on our "for sale" section at present are very, very common cars. Just because they have survived in the condition they are presently in doesn't mean that they are all that valuable. The only sister cars of the same vintage that should command the $$$ asked are usually running, complete vehicles that don't need a whole lot of funds invested to become a dependable hobby car.

Overhauling brakes, engine, radiator, and the other mechanical things that need attention soon become a money sewer. And that's way before you can even start to make the car look "pretty" enough that your wife and kids will even sit in it, much less, ride in it. And before long, your bride will start asking, "Why is it that I can't have the new stove/washer/etc. that I want and you spend money on that rat-trap car week after week?"

It has been suggested that both cars need to be "saved." The only answer I have to that is "Common sense" should apply somewhere along here. Seller "A" has a car that needs "everything." Seller "B" has a well maintained car that can be purchased for say, three or four times what the first guy wants for his "find." And the car the second guy has can be driven to Dairy Queen that evening with the family waving to all and sundry along the way. AND the new owner will have enough money left over that they can stop at Lowes or Sears on the way home and surprise Mom with a new washer and dryer.

My advice to anyone who "finds" a car in a barn or field that doesn't say "Duesenberg" on it give the owner a hundred dollar bill to "hold" the car and then do some solid research on what the car might need to even get it running. If the guy with the car sells the car in the next five minutes and keeps your "non-refundable" deposit as well, you'll have had the enjoyment of "the stuff that dreams are made of."

Keep in mind that all old car buffs are NOT rich (and stupid.) Unless you can keep the car in your garage for a long, long time, don't think that the old car guys from around the country are going to beat a path to your door and throw money at you. The exceptions are cars that other collectors are trying to restore and need parts. If you don't find ads asking for the car you've just found, leave your name and phone # with the guy that owns your "find" and tell him to call you if he'll sell it for what you "should" pay for the car.

And if you buy it to "flip," don't be too disappointed if no one is interested in taking the car off your hands. There are just too many cars out there that are "nicer" for the same money.

[Steve Passmore]

There's a lot of sense in what you say, Barry.

[Bobby B]

There's a lot of sense in what you say, Barry.

Agreed...I like this Subject. It opens a lot of doors for discussion on an interesting subject and/or analysis  .....
                                                                                                         Bobby

[chris92026]

Specially California car
Its pretty easy to bring a car from outside and get a title even if you have no paper work
And ask lots of money for them

[wrench]

On those rare occasions (only while in some hotel somewhere) that I catch 'Gas Monkey Garage' or whatever it's called, I love the way the interior shop lady eats up his budget by charging a couple of grand just to redo the seats and a carpet...

I would suggest that anybody who is looking at a barn find, in addition to looking at values of the vehicle, look into the cost of doing common tasks such as interior or chrome or paint or engine/trans work etc...

Barn finds are stuck in a barn for 40 years for a reason.

This discussion doesn't even include the hoarders who have multiple vehicle rusting around the barn...

[Tom Boehm]

'nuff said        '39 Cadillac series 61    price $8,700                48 Cadillac series 75         price $8,500
                        Runs and drives with new interior                      engine locked up sitting since 1974

[savemy67]

Hello all,

I once knew a college administrator who was considering getting a second Ph.D. because the advent of the Internet made doing so very compelling from the standpoint of research.  The point being that we have so many sources of information today that researching the market price of an old car is relatively easy and realistic.  With a little homework, we can determine within a reasonable range, what a particular year/make/model/condition should command in the market.

Of course there are always sellers who think their car is the Kohinoor diamond of cars and who won't take a penny less than a "Bezoszillion" dollars for it.  This is where doing research helps you stay grounded.  We all have our dream cars, but we also have real budgets.  The more we know about realistic market values, the more realistic the hobby becomes and remains for many of us.

I am not fond of the term "barn find".  There are many things one can find in a barn - I have stepped in some of those things.  This hobby is many things to many people.  I hope to see it continue and be available to all who find enjoyment in it.  The more we know, the less likely the hobby will become the purview of a small cadre of the well-to-do.

Respectfully submitted
Christopher Winter

[59-in-pieces]

I can't remember the last time I agreed with so many posts at one time.

The age of technology in accessing so much information about so many things boggles this old guy's mind.
The quick flip TV shows are so misleading - like come to Hollywood and become a star in a month or two - NOPE it just ain't so with stars or barn finds.

Someone told me many years ago, to buy smart, because an old car is just an old car, not all are classics worth buying.

Have fun,
Steve B.

[z3skybolt]

Having owned a 1937 Buick Special Coupe from 1971 until 2017 and never really completing the restoration, despite an engine overhaul, paint and chrome...it had sat for the past 25 years in my nephew's barn in Indiana. I thought that it must be quite rare and of value even though it was rusting away. Just how many 80 year old Buicks  could remain anyway?

Two years ago I bought a beautiful 1940 LaSalle 52 series coupe. Since then I have spent hundreds of hours on this site  read and researched endlessly about the "hobby".  I am astounded by just how many thousands of "old cars" still exist....even pre-war!  From priceless exotics to hulks rusting in "barns".  More than enough, in my opinion, to satisfy demand for as long as the internal combustion engine is allowed to be operated.

By the way....I sold my old Buick, of which I was the second owner, to my UPS driver who is going to rod it out.  He gave me $800.00 and I kept the engine, transmission and associated accessories.  Although 99.9 complete and original....I had let it waste away until it was almost worthless.

There were no tears....but it was kind of hard to see it go after 46 years.


Bob

[gkhashem]

Well said Barry.

I only buy nice low mileage originals that are a #2 or better in cosmetics and run decently. Especially the interior, while some say I have overpaid well that's their opinion. One that is in my book dead wrong.

The nice original will at least hold its value and most times will go up. As they say they are not making anymore of them.

They also, as many more experienced than me say, drive as they should. I have heard many say the frame off cars never drive well and they are destined to be trailer queens. All show no go.... I for one like to drive my cars some.

A bargain is usually no bargain. Even the best originals need some minor TLC and will cost anywhere from  1,000 to 2,000 to sort out if you do it the right way. Tires are almost always needed,a tune up, fluids, brake lines and wheel cylinders.

[cadillacmike68]

On those rare occasions (only while in some hotel somewhere) that I catch 'Gas Monkey Garage' or whatever it's called, I love the way the interior shop lady eats up his budget by charging a couple of grand just to redo the seats and a carpet...

I would suggest that anybody who is looking at a barn find, in addition to looking at values of the vehicle, look into the cost of doing common tasks such as interior or chrome or paint or engine/trans work etc...

Barn finds are stuck in a barn for 40 years for a reason.

This discussion doesn't even include the hoarders who have multiple vehicle rusting around the barn...

But that's about what it costs for a proper seat and carpet job...

@George,

$2,000 would be the minimum even on a nicely preserved one. Tires alone will cost you $1K if you want proper WSW tires, while all the seals, fluids and wear parts will easily eat up another Grand.

[39LaSalleDriver]

Being new to the old car hobby, I find this discussion rather interesting. Before I got involved, I spent a good little time to investigate the car I was interested in, predominantly through this forum. I wanted to know what the average values were, but perhaps even more importantly, what I was getting into vis a vis parts availability. Not only is the age of pre-war cars a factor, I also took into consideration how many were scrapped out during the war.

I ended up buying a car that I thought was priced fairly. Now it may well be the seller laughed all the way to the bank, but by my reckoning, I had several thousand to drop into it before I would consider myself "upside down" on it. But then again, I didn't buy it as an investment or as a prize winner. I bought it because I've always wanted a pre-war car to drive around on a semi-regular basis. I didn't have the dough to go out and buy one that was a high grade restoration, so I bought something I could afford and spend money on upgrades over time. In other words, a driver quality car. Even though it has turned out to be in a bit rougher shape than I originally hoped; requiring more money and time to repair/replace items I hadn't planned on; and will never be a show car as long as I'm paying the bills on it, I'm still satisfied with the vehicle. I'm fortunate that I can do a considerable amount of the work myself so that helps a lot.

When I finally keel over dead, it will never be worth what I will probably end up dropping on it, especially if you take the labor and effort I have put into the project into account. But I'm okay with that. I've got a really cool car to tool around in.

As a side note to the original posting, I would add the cost of parts into the mix of things that astound me. I'm continually on the prowl for parts I need, or may need some day. I'm always amazed at the sellers who want to sell parts in "lots" so that they don't have to list the parts individually, or can just sell it and be done, or worse still sweeten the pot with a few choice pieces so they can unload a bunch of scrap metal.

Here's a handy hint for you sellers out there...most people don't want to spend $2000 for a bunch of parts so you can clean out your shed this week. Especially when the buyer only needs one part out of the grouping. Trust me, it might take you longer to get rid of, but you're far better off selling those pieces off at X dollars at a time because nobody is going to pay you that $2000 you want so that they too can fill their shed with crap they don't want or need. Enjoy your junk because that's where it's all going to end up when you still can't sell it five years from now.

Offer your part for whatever you want or think it's worth, and I'll take it from there to decide if it's worth it to me to buy or haggle over. But don't expect me or anyone else to want all your cast off crap enough to pay those ridiculous prices.

[MercsDude]

I just posted my low mileage Eldorado Commemorative Edition ... 

...hoping I don't get beat up!   

[wrench]

But that's about what it costs for a proper seat and carpet job...

Lol, well yeah, that's what cracks me up about it. The guy walks in there and tries to lowball her and she just sticks to her price.

I think the counterpoint of the guy overpaying for every car and then his vendors being realistic with him, highlights the issue. No one is gonna drop their price because you made a bad deal.

For lack of a better description, I am a Project Manager, so all of those Chopper/Flipper/Hunter shows make me laugh out loud at the lack of research and planning. They are frigging circuses. But I guess that is where the entertainment value is.

It is just that there are simple minded folks who actually go out thinking they can flip old cars for a profit because of these shows.