General shop repair expectations?

[67_Eldo]

What level of service do you typically expect when you have to take your car to a shop for any sort of work (e.g. mechanical, body, electrical, etc.)?

I'm asking because I might be under the influence of the Curse of the Eldorado!

As many of you know, I've been working on the sheet metal roof of my 1967 Eldorado. During the spring semester, I made slow but steady progress digging out rust, forming new sail panels, and welding new metal in. Alas, during what I thought was our penultimate session, our instructor was informed that it was our last session instead, cutting off my access to the shop tools a week earlier than I expected.

Frustrated by the interruption in the body-repair "roll" I was on, I took the car (the next day) to a local body shop I'd never visited before to get an estimate on how much it would cost and how long it would take to get the rest of the metal roughed in (since I had lost access to the welder). I looked this place up on Yelp and Google Reviews and various social media. The reports seemed quite positive.

They thought I'd done a good job so far and that it wouldn't be that difficult to do some exploratory sandblasting around the windshield and patch up the whole top in four days. Since I gave them the pre-formed sail panels (the time-consuming part of the job) and since the whole thing was already disassembled, we all expected the process to harbor few surprises. So they said they'd take my car on Monday, May 14, get it sandblasted (by a third party) that day, and have the whole job done on Friday, May 18. That sounded good to me, because I'd save tons of time on the top. I also gave them a $1k down payment for the work to be done.

They promised to call me at every step to keep me fully informed of what was going on.

When Friday, May 18 rolled around, I didn't get a call. So I stopped by their shop (which is not far from where I live). It turned out that their sandblaster had been busy all week, so they didn't get the car in for blasting.

On Monday, May 21, I stopped by again, having received no call. They hoped that the sandblasting would take place some time this week. OK.

Since Memorial Day was the following Monday, I didn't try to contact them until Wednesday, May 30th. The car had been sandblasted but their shop was "slammed" with business. Their building was so crammed with cars, they didn't bring my Eldorado back to the shop, preferring to leave it at the sandblaster's place (wherever that may be). They'd bring the Eldorado back to the shop on the following Monday.

I dropped by their shop again on Monday, June 4. They hadn't brought the Eldo back, but they intended to real soon. They couldn't tell me if the sandblasting had revealed new problems or not. All they could saw was "We'll call you when we get it." They'd have it back at the shop by Wednesday, June 6th. For sure. I'm starting to get a bit hot under the collar by these unexplained delays but I'm such a nice guy. :-)

At this point, I have yet to receive my first call from them.

I dropped by their shop today (June 12th). Oops! They'd forgotten to go get the Eldo (at 10 AM). But they were going to go get it right now and call me this afternoon.

It is now after closing time in the late afternoon. No call. No car. I'm steamed.

This pattern of behavior is too similar to the way I was treated by the earlier nightmare shop who ultimately held onto the Eldo for 11 months to perform one month's worth of work.

I'm very tempted to hire a tow truck tomorrow, have the Eldo hauled back to my house, and demand my money back from the shop.

Am I being unreasonable? Is my car "cursed" (as soon as it falls into the hands of others)? Have any of you noticed that mechanics or body shops will assign your vintage automobile a lower priority, even if you pay the same money as "new" car customers?

Should I cut some slack and chill or should I run screaming into their office tomorrow morning and demand that heads roll?

Thanks!

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

To have the best chance of getting your money back, stay away from their shop while you're mad. And the first thing tomorrow, call your lawyer and let them handle it. Print out your problem like you did with us, and let them handle it. I found out when trying to get the title for my '91 Seville, it made a great deal of difference when my lady lawyer got involved. They know how to approach a problem to let the shop know you mean business.

Do not call the shop, do not go to it. Call your lawyer.

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

I hate to say this but that's EXACTLY how those kind of shops operate. Do whatever it takes to get your car OUT OF THERE!! Next thing you know, your car will be blasted & sitting in the rain.
Bob

[David Greenburg]

While these kinds of issues can happen with any shop, I think body shops can be particularly problematic.  Were the good reviews for restoration work or collision work?  For most body shops, their bread and butter is collusion work, usually paid for by insurance companies. Restoration work is more of a sideline; it is more time consuming, and the work is often held to a more demanding standard because of people like us. So shops will let it sit when things get busy with collision work.  I actually had a shop ask me not to bring my car back to them because they felt they were losing money on the resto work.  So you may need to find a shop that is more focused on resto work.

[Ralph Messina CLC 4937]

Barry just offered you million dollar advice. Before you decide not to spend additional money and instead wait until they respond, I’d like to provide you with some motivation.

The only reason someone would treat you in this manner is they don’t respect you or take you seriously.

I’ve been in this hobby 50 years, since I was a teenager, and 99.9% of my experience has been with honorable people. Some have been better business people and I probably could have made a better deal. In only three cases did I have to resort to reaching for a lawyer because there was potential fraud afoot. Your post above sounds like you’ve handled this situation as a gentleman in a respectful manner. If you let this pass and accept this treatment it will leave you with a bad taste  that won’t go away. If you don’t have one already, spend a few hundred dollars and find a lawyer to represent you. You are not an expert in the law or your rights and you are emotionally involved….not the best way to argue your case. People and businesses sometimes take on more than they deliver and need to prioritize their efforts better. A letter from an attorney can focus the mind. Have a lawyer speak for you.

Get the contracted work done now or get your car and money back

HTH

[67_Eldo]

Thanks for the advice, guys!

The lawyer option, in my anger, is one I didn't think of. But it is obviously the best choice. One likes to think of one's self as the best person to resolve a difference of opinion with another. But emotion does make that quite difficult.

I shoud have gotten in touch with a lawyer during my prior Eldorado-repair nightmare. I shouldn't make that mistake again!

Ralph, I agree that things go well 99% of the time. I guess I'm feeling "cursed" because this is the first time I've had two "issues" related to a single car, which has never happened before. Furthermore, they've happened with an Eldorado, a car that (I think) should be approached by everyone with reverence and respect! :-)

Thanks again!

[Glen]

So they said they'd take my car on Monday, May 14, get it sandblasted (by a third party) that day, and have the whole job done on Friday, May 18.

I was suspicious with that statement. 

[James Landi]

 It's  painful to hear your narrative.   Just a thought on your original posting... Having headed independent schools for 37 years, I have witnessed a "negative mind set" among my colleagues whose conversation and narratives are entirely counterproductive toward the "parent-client," the family, and sadly, in some cases, toward the child. Whether they be teachers or technicians, some folks have little tolerance for "projects"-- whether they be a vulnerable child or your yet to be beautiful car.  Following this imperfect analogy, you have every reason to suspect that these folks believe you're a nut job for spending money on your "baby." Thus, your place in the line is always last. I have experienced this kind of behavior by independent garage owners and their crew, and it's simply depressing.  I've paid thousands to have work done on my vintage cars that, when completed, was done wrong... having to endure the final insult, " I'm sorry you're feeling that way, but it is an old car, and we did what we could."   Finding the right person who has enthusiasm and technical expertise is, of course, the answer. 

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

Furthermore, they've happened with an Eldorado, a car that (I think) should be approached by everyone with reverence and respect! :-)

They just see this as another job.  We see it differently of course, but to them it is just another job.

Also, you want to have them stop any future work on the car at this point and your lawyer should say that.  When they see you mean business they will magically get the job done---as quickly as possible.  A year from now things will start bubbling, etc because they rushed thru it.  Get the car out 1st and worry about the $$ later.  It is much 'easier' to argue getting your $$ back when the car is not done.  If it is completed then you have less of a leg to stand on.  Also be sure you get a hold harmless/lien release from the sandblaster.  If you pull it out of there and the shop has not paid them they could legitimately put a mechanic's lien on the car. 
Sorry this happened to you.
Jeff

[wrench]

My experience with this:

I was in a partnership with a paint/fabrication guy. He is very talented and an artist.

I was the mechanic and process oriented.

We had three bays. The plan at the outset was one project Bay at a time regardless of flow with the other two bays being mechanical.

Jeez. The next thing I know, one Bay is a paint booth, one Bay is welding and one Bay is mechanical.

Two projects inside and two projects outside and very slow progress on any of them.

It was a wtf moment. The guy couldn't say no to the deposits and couldn't finish anything.

I held back on work until the shop was cleared and then shut the doors on the operation.

That is the last time I will ever be associated with an artist.

What a numbskull.

There is a lot more to the story, but that is the problem.

In my real life, I am a project manager with very real deadlines, very real safety/quality concerns and very high cost factors.

Automotive repairs are a microcosm of my industry and it is in a sorry state of affairs.

My bottom line at work and dealing with auto repairs is:

"They all suck"

I don't care about ratings, fancy equipment, smiles and assurances. There is no quality control whether it is at a Cadillac dealership service department or an independent.

Quality control comes from within ourselves and a commercial interest gives quality lip service. It cannot be 'systematized'. It can only be internalized.

That is what you are experiencing.

It is unfortunate and is very real.

[metalblessing]

I had similar problems when I first bought my hearse. I had it towed to a local shop the first day I got it. They replaced the carb, did brake work and replaced some lines. I went through a similar situation as you. I'd call to check and they would say "oh we didnt get to it today" or "we got the part in and are going to finish it today". Of course they ended up having it for nearly a month. They would tell me it would be ready at end of day, I'd drive out and wait an hour in the lobby then they would say "oh sorry, it wont be ready today".

Had some pretty bad experiences at that shop, and I will never go back. Especially since they said my bogging was "because my auto-choke wasnt working". They wanted to install a manual choke, i said no, 2 months later I realized the carb was fine, it was just a clogged fuel filter...

[Steve Passmore]

As already said, the bread and butter work are all the accident damaged cars rolling in every day. Your car takes up too much room and they can't charge you like they do the insurances companies.
They like to have the classics in to draw customers, but it goes to the back of the line when collision stuff drives in.

[67_Eldo]

There is no sign of the Eldorado this morning so the email is off to the lawyer.

I told her that I want the shop to stop whatever it may be doing (ha ha), gather up all the pieces that have been removed (e.g. the windshield), and get the whole package back to me as soon as possible. We'll see what happens.

Thanks again for all the advice.

[z3skybolt]

Not a body shop...

...but same crap. I selected a well regarded engine builder for my 346 engine.  He told me that it would take 4 to 6 months and cost $8,000.00.

He had it nine months. Would have been longer, but like you I kept "checking in".  When finished the bill was $12,732.00 and it wasn't right. I spent another $1,200.00 hauling the car back to him to have him repair his engine mistake. Still he couldn't make it right. Another $1,800.00 eventually paid to a real expert who solved the errors of the original builder.

Cannot forget that it cost me $3,400.00 to have the engine removed, shipped to the shop, returned  and reinstalled. Then a freeze plug fell out twice. Two tow bills and more labor.....$510.00.

You do the math!  I come up with about $20 grand....for an overhaul!!  And when I bought the LaSalle for $29,000.00 it was supposed to be perfect.  Uh huh. Have about $50,000.00 in a car that is worth maybe $20,000.00?                                       

That is what I get for being a no talent dummy. But hey...the car is beautiful and has run perfectly for 2,000 miles since final repair.

Love is expensive!!
Bob

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

You do the math!  I come up with about $20 grand....for an overhaul!! 

I could get my O-300 done for that.
Jeff

[Jeepers Creepers]

I reckon, the first thing to do before leaving a car at any shop, (panel or mechanical) is see what they drive.

If they drive an early girl, you can at least get a feeling they will know their way around an old classic to some degree.
Panel beaters/bodyshop guys seem to be the worst on the planet for making promises.

As said already, bread and butter crash work will win out every time. Often just unbolt and reattach panels and then paint.
Pretty much the same for mechanics too though, no diagnostic skills, just plug and play with a computer scanner.

Gone are the days of actually spending 20 minutes to have good look at what's required.
Just rip, bang, tear, pay up.... next...

[bcroe]

That is pretty much my experience with sand blasting outfits.  Some go
out to jobs, say they will do yours when they return.  Except they never
do.  Found a drop off sand blasting shop in Rockford with 2 day turn
around, they actually do all my rims on schedule, reasonable price. 

Body shops are worse.  What ever new stuff comes in last they work
on.  Old stuff gets ignored till the new stuff is done, except it is never
all done.  I have had to move cars to get things done, ruined my
schedule but didn't pay your prices. 

I don't do body work, but my advice is buy a welder.  Any tool I
have purchased paid for itself in a short time, and freed me of all
the grief you describe.  Mechanics vary hugely, I learned to fix my
cars by fixing their screw ups.  It is all around more convenient,
far, FAR cheaper, and best quality to just do it my self.  No one has
been allowed to touch my cars in so many decades, not even to
mount a new tire wheel on an axle. 

Anyway the BEST a good tech does is get the car back to factory
condition.  If I see a weakness or maintenance issue, the car may
well get modified to eliminate the issue.  It pays, cars here have
400,000, or 300,000, or at least 230,000 miles.  Bruce Roe

[67_Eldo]

I reckon, the first thing to do before leaving a car at any shop, (panel or mechanical) is see what they drive.

I *did* check that. Not only did they have a 1973 Eldorado convertible and a 1964 CdV convertible parked out back, their "show car" is a 1967 Riviera. I'm not sure they knew how closely the '67 Riviera and '67 Eldorado are related, but they seemed to be comfortable with 60s-vintage GM cars. Alas, that clue hasn't served me well twice now.

Maybe they're just jealous that the Eldorado outshines the Riviera's beauty? :-)

I don't do body work, but my advice is buy a welder.

Yeah, I think that's my next step. My main problem remains: My garage is so small that to do anything but check the radiator, I have to pull the car out of the garage. That's not an option during the coldest winter months and its no fun on a burning hot afternoon either.

I still haven't heard back from either the body shop or the lawyer so I'm still on hold. Grrr.

[jaxops]

When the shop has a LOT of cars parked all over the place, and it is "crammed with cars" don't add yours to the list.  They have an inability to complete work and jobs are backing up.  They may also have poor performance, or not enough workers.  Either way, it is an indication that the shop's business process is broken!

[Dave Shepherd]

A recent Hemmings article , I believe, featured advice from an attorney to get a contract with the shop, pointing out,  requested work, quality and time frame of work completion and a payment schedule.. With this in hand you have legal recourse when issues arise.