Man Trapped Inside XLR for 14 hours.

[WTL]

The fix is a mechanical latch. 

This is how Gus Grissom died, btw. 

Why isn't it the engineers responsibility to anticipate potential failures?  Who is being irresponsible? 

Why did the Teves 2 brake system go away?  Yes, when in proper condition it did it's job, but failure, the little red brake light, came shortly before the brakes going flat out.  If it happens going up a hill, no traffic, your fine.  If it happens on the Washington beltway, 75 mph traffic, your dead.

Engineers bear responsibility.  This is a big deal.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

The fix is a mechanical latch.

There are two of them. 

Why isn't it the engineers responsibility to anticipate potential failures?

They did.

Engineers bear responsibility.

And so does the owner!   

[D.Smith]

If you're unfamiliar with the car, you shouldn't be renting it.

Not necessarily true.   LOL    I am very familiar with late model luxury cars. 

A few years ago when I rented a new CTS I had to stop for gas.   I knew enough to look at the gas gauge for the arrow pointing to which side the filler was on.   I then opened the door and looked for the fuel door release button.   None.  I looked on the floor for a release lever.   None.   I looked at the dash for a button.  None.  I looked on the center console.  Nothing. I looked in the glovebox for the owners manual.  None of course.  I walked back the fuel filler door to see if I could get my fingernail under the lip to pry it open.   No luck.  No notch to pull it open of course.   As I stood there scratching my head a little old lady walked over and pushed one side of the filler door and it rotated open.   I was so embarrassed. LOL 

[59-in-pieces]

I got a kick out of the comment about the need for a flight attendant, and the single IQ comment was also on point (particularly in the face of lets hold everyone back with the dumb everything down concept = "no child left behind" and the cartoon - fiascos.

If you fly as much as I, the safety demo. and script is on most flights I have been on are ignored.
Also, asking people who sit in the emergency exit rows want to sit there - assuming they understand what to do if needed - is a joke.
remembering the rest of us are the Passengers (not the driver/pilot) relying on the BOZO who may or may not know what to do, and knows how to do it - oh! - there is also no guarantee that the person even knows how to read English (owner's manual) - is that not PC? - it's just for more leg room - no confirmed prerequisites required for all of our safety.

Have fun,
Steve B.

[Scot Minesinger]

WTL,

I looked up Gus Grissom and he died in a fire in 1967 at NASA during a test simulation/flight.  How are you drawing a comparison to the guy in the XLR?  The XLR has a mechanical latch...and an electric one that operates by push button.

Before this topic came up, I remember seeing the new Lincoln Continental with the push button door openers, and the first thing that came to mind was what happens if the battery died, and then the next scene (it was a youtube video) they showed the emergency mechanical means to open the door.

As an engineer, I can assure you marketing or management instructed the engineer to make such a door design, they do not have this much influence.

BTW the speed limit on the Washington beltway is 55mph not 75 (in VA part of beltway 75mph is reckless driving).  Accordingly, I try to stay under 74 mph.

So we got about a dozen people on this discussion, and the consensus is it is the 75 year old man's fault having to pick a side.  A jury of 12 might go the same way, 1 for the guy and 11 against.  You might not get selected in a jury because of your prior Saturn issues. 

[D.Smith]

We all know a friend who insists on having a car with all the options yet doesn't use any of them because he doesn't know how to. 

Climate control especially. I hate it when I see someone with it set for max heat or cold and the fan on max. 

I sat in rear seat of the new Continental at the NY auto show and hit the button to get out several times without success before a friend standing outside let me out.  It was un-nerving.   

[BJM]

Easy fix in this day and age.  With all of the computers on a car. IF a vehicle reaches a low battery state, the computer commands the door to unlock and stay unlocked until the battery reaches a charge state  that is steady and timed, then go back to normal. 

[James Landi]

Bryan NAILED it... as an XLR owner, there are several scenarios that either lock you out or lock you in, and because there is no sensing computer to control what is permitted to occur regarding the battery state, one can get into the car with an "almost dead" battery, and then, as a consequence of trying to start it, get stuck in the car.   Another personal observation--- the the XLR does NOT constantly remind you that you're driving an overpowered sports car.  It's comfortable beyond imagination, and the ride is extraordinarily smooth... nothing sporting here--- a sedate, smooth as silk, comfortable ride that lulls one in feeling entirely comfortable with a technology trap that may be lurking,  that you're not prepared to escape from.   All this being said, I absolutely love this Cadillac    Happy day, James

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

I can't remember whether or not it "happened to me," or not. But in 1941 Cadillac lore, there is a story of a filling station attendant who simply couldn't find the gas cap. (Or, open the hood.) Could these have been the "firsts" of the modern gadgets confounding people? (I was re-reading some of the posts and just happened to remember this snippet of useless information.)

[WTL]

 I wanted to give it a couple days as I didn't want to overwork this thread.


Gus Grissom died with Roger Chaffee and Ed White because there was a fire in their
test capsule and there was no door handle that they can open from the inside, or at least that is my recollection. 

If your teves 2 brake system goes out at 55 miles an hour on the interstate you might be dead too.  Even worse you might take someone in a different car with you.   Of course I appreciate that they were trying to get to ABS, so at least with those braking systems they had laudable goal in mind.   for the most part they seem to have been reliable but I just don't get having one of the failure possibilities be look for a nice big soft bush to crash into.

I've already conceded that the legal case is weak.  But the (moral) case in favor of not having a standard door mount mechanical latch is weak to non-existent.  Fair to say that most people disagree with him suing over this?  I can see that.  My contention actually is less about the lawsuit and more about just wanting to curse people who install stupid features in cars that get other people in trouble.  Even if it doesn't meet the legal standard of negligence it is just dumb. 

I also understand that there is mechanical latch but obviously from the fact that somebody has died already and another guy could have died it is not intuitive to some people.   Yea we all would have found it but we all are car guys.

It's okay to complain about the stupidity of GM without endorsing the finer legal aspects of a personal injury suit.  By originally saying that I took his side I was not signaling that he was perfect, but I understood that there would be people like that who would get caught in that circumstance and who I have sympathy for. 

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Easy fix in this day and age.  With all of the computers on a car. IF a vehicle reaches a low battery state, the computer commands the door to unlock and stay unlocked until the battery reaches a charge state  that is steady and timed, then go back to normal.

I'm not sure if having a car that unlocks itself and remains unlocked until the battery situation is remedied is a good solution either. However I do agree that many modern cars have way too many automated control systems.

As to the situation here, I think it would be a good idea if message appeared on the dash alerting the driver to the emergency release if exit is attempted while the battery is in a low charge state. Even a low battery should have enough power to illuminate a message board.

[59-in-pieces]

I asked my wife to read all these posts to get her spin on this issue.
Let me quickly add that although we have an XLR, she has never shown any interest in, or wanted to drive it.

My wife is much like Will Rogers - cool and level headed.
She concluded that "if it's your time to go - there is no way to avoid it - it's out of your hands, and into the hands of a higher power".

Have fun,
Steve B.

PS. I need to add this - if you want to hear GOD laugh - tell him your plans.

[76Caddy]

This may be a dumb question...but how did the neighbor open the door if the battery was dead and the owner had the key inside that opens the trunk manually???

[WTL]

Thats a very decent question. 

The other thing that comes to mind I guess is, what if there is an accident that immobilizes the driver or kills the battery.  I guess its the same as before, break the glass and do what you can.  But instead of reaching to unlock the door, the good Samaritan will be pulling the guy out through a broken window.   

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

My understanding is the neighbor went to check on the situation when he noticed the owner's garage door had still been open late in the evening. Emergency personnel had the driver release the hood and gave the battery a boost.

[Jon Hunter]

KISS is an acronym for "Keep it simple, stupid" as a design principle noted by the U.S. Navy in 1960. The KISS principle states that most systems work best if they are kept simple rather than made complicated; therefore simplicity should be a key goal in design, and that unnecessary complexity should be avoided. The phrase has been associated with aircraft engineer Kelly Johnson, lead engineer at the Lockheed Skunk Works (creators of the Lockheed U-2 and SR-71 Blackbird spy planes, among many others) The term "KISS principle" was in popular use by 1970. Variations on the phrase include: "Keep it simple, silly", "keep it short and simple", "keep it simple and straightforward","keep it small and simple" and "keep it stupid simple.

     In my shop, used cars from the dealerships RARELY have the owner's manual in the car. A few years ago I bought a large box of brand new owner's/operator manuals from an employee of a motorcycle dealership at a swap meet. No glovebox or saddlebag, they did not reach the hands of the buyer or maybe the buyers did not want them,

[David Greenburg]

If I were going to be locked in a Cadillac for 14 hours, I’d make sure it was a late 49’s Series 75. No point in being pinched for space.

[wrench]

In a modern jet aircraft cockpit, designed for ergonomics and safety, a pilot who has been trained, qualified and experienced in the type will have equipment engineered to be painted red, yellow and/or white with contrasting stripes to designate such things as emergency brake handle, emergency gear extension handle, emergency flap handle, emergency pitch trim, emergency egress handles and other such items.

Yet they paint this stuff Red! They paint it red.

Now, this Pilot, who has been trained in the operation of this equipment and basically lives in this environment and checks each of these and a hundred other things daily during preflight has the advantage in an emergency or abnormal situation.

I'm thinking the manual release handle should have been designed to be red, yellow or white to contrast with the interior.

It's that simple. It's a crappy design.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

I'm thinking the manual release handle should have been designed to be red, yellow or white to contrast with the interior.

I'm not so sure that would have made much difference in an unlit interior in a dark garage. In any case the emergency latch is located in plain sight every time the door is opened.

You'd be surprised how clueless certain members the general public can be. Customers continuously ask me why a car on the lot is "AS IS" when I make a point of putting a huge black checkmark in the "WARRANTY" box of the FTC Buyer's Guide window sticker with the AS IS box left blank. I even tried red ink & day glow colors with the same results. Finally I began crossing out the entire AS IS section, with the WARRANTY box checked - and even then, some people will still ask why the car is being sold as-is. 

Only two things are infinite- the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the former.

-Albert Einstein.

[V63]

👆 are you sure this is written correctly?

The spirit of  ‘AS-IS’ is NO warrantee.

The emergency release is finished in a matching interior color...and If it were a fluorescent red it might cause pause at some point of casual entry making recall more probable within 14 hours of incarceration.