Man Trapped Inside XLR for 14 hours.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

While I can sympathize with an experience that is no doubt traumatic, there is no excuse with not familiarizing oneself with all controls to ensure safe operation covered in the owner's manual - especially in a car as advanced as the XLR.

Why do so many remove important owner's literature from their vehicles where it is most needed I will never understand.

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/09/13/stuck-cadillac-xlr-dead-battery/?ncid=edlinkusauto00000021&yptr=yahoo

[WTL]

I take his side.  Sure, there were things he coulda done better, but I have been in that situation before. 

I'm 35, strong health, I was riding with my brother in his black BMW.  He had some paperwork to do at the hospital, so he parked with me inside.  I was fiddling around on my phone, oblivious, and the car locked.  Well, it was a 90 degree day, and after about a minute I realized how bad a situation it was.  I'm sure BMW had a way to get out, but I had no idea what it was and you start to panic quickly.  The door handles did not work. 

Luckily, he answered his phone.  I might have been able to break a window, but, there are all sorts of hypothetical complications that could result in someone dying. 

Just saying he (I) shoulda read the manual is not good enough.

[Cadillac Jack 82]

Always carry a way to cut your seat belt or smash your window if you have to.  A window can be replaced...your life cannot.

[Scot Minesinger]

I do not side with the 75 year old man.  Remember this was a matter of life and death - he gave up and was ready to die.  Given a matter of life or death, it seems incredible that a car in a garage could imprison a human with a driver's license.  This was discussed locally by our CLC members and the census was not in support of the man, and some were mad he was supposedly going to sue Cadillac.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Unfortunately many can be very nonchalant where it comes to familiarizing themselves with all features of their cars. I've answered many questions posed here that could have easily been answered by simply reading the owner's manual.

Years ago, I read a review of the new 1980 Seville in which the writer also claimed he had been locked inside. The 80 Seville was one of the first cars to use slide action manual door locks rather than the traditional pin style knobs located on the upper door panels as was common. He eventually made it out - you guessed it - by reading the manual.

Manuals are there for a reason.

[Quentin Hall]

I’ve been trapped in this damn hobby for over 30 long years. Cadillac should have warned me that there is no release from the clutches of 50s Eldorados and prewar customs. Anyone know a good lawyer.....?

[WTL]

I don't think the average 75 year old man is going to be able to get out of that by force even if he has the magic hammer.  I've seen clips of people trying to use those hammers in real life conditions, and they don't always work.

I'm not discussing legal liability here, the case would be weak...pointless in a contributory negligence state...but am I aggravated by some stuff being needlessly complex?  Yes.  I have no idea why that car couldn't have a mechanical latch/lock on the door.  Safety is only one reason for that aggravation. 

BTW, y'all know the hot coffee case?  A lot of people made fun of it, well, the coffee was nearly boiling, caused 3rd degree burns, and was regularly served that hot to discourage refills.  Not every lawsuit is frivolous, even some where the facts at first blush seem jarring.

[76eldo]

Our CTS Coupe has the same setup.
There is a manual door release.
When you are sitting in the car you probably can't see the release so you have to know its there and feel around for it.

14 hours stuck in a closed up car must have been pretty terrible. I'm guessing he had no phone with him.

[Jay Friedman]

As an old guy, in my opinion the complexity of modern cars is un-necessary and merely a selling point directed toward young people who are fascinated by such things. 

Deciding to keep things simple, I bought a 2009 Toyota Corolla Base model (Made in USA) as my daily driver with analog instruments, crank up windows, manual door locks/trunk lock/gas tank flap/hood release, as well as stick shift.  It suits me just fine, though I've been laughed at.  It's a dull gray color and looks like every other car in a parking lot (it's only negative).  I don't think new cars like that are sold anymore in the US.  I get my kicks from my '49 Cad.

My wife and I both have a hammer/knife/flashlight gizmo in our cars for emergencies.

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

I am now what I'd call an "old" person. But I think,(trying to use the lever to release the tilt wheel as a turn signal or not), that in fourteen hours that I would not have pulled, hit at, or whatever inside of that car at least twice. I like living too much. Logic would tell you that any release would be where the driver could get to it. And go from there. In any case, I'm glad the guy got out.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Emergency lever along side the seat.

[V63]

Remind me again how many millions the person got over safe operation of a coffee cup?

Or the Winnebago driver who set the ‘auto pilot’ cruise control and proceeded from the drivers seat rearward to fix himself a beverage?

Darwin Awards

BTW corvettes use the same method of door latch...what’s the median age there?

[Scot Minesinger]

I'm sorry, but there is just no excuse.

We all have been inconveniently trapped by some aspect of technology, but by in large technology makes life better.  Heck, we are all typing on this forum.  Sure, trapped in the car for 15 minutes, half hour, but 14 hours and give up like a dog to die - no way.   Frankly, don't think that I have ever rode in a car or drove one without my phone since maybe 1992 or so.  I'm 57, healthy, so older than average not writing like I'm 25.  My 80 year old neighbor who I have known for 30 years is not going to ever be trapped in his car either. 

[WTL]

Remind me again how many millions the person got over safe operation of a coffee cup?

Or the Winnebago driver who set the ‘auto pilot’ cruise control and proceeded from the drivers seat rearward to fix himself a beverage?

Darwin Awards

BTW corvettes use the same method of door latch...what’s the median age there?

The 79 year old lady got $650k for 8 days in the hospital, as they worked to graft skin into areas where you don't want that to happen. 

[gkhashem]

Only a tort lawyer would celebrate this sort of award.

Whatever happened to contributory negligence? We are never to blame ourselves it's always someone else to blame. Or at least someone with a deep pocket.

[WTL]

Temporary sidetrack warning:
Contributory negligence has been replaced in most states by comparative, which allows people to recover in those situations where some fraction of fault was attributable to the plaintiff.  This change started in california and spread. 

I view torts as a perfectly legitimate mechanism for the awarding of damages, and I see that mechanism as being part of the free market.  Don't like it?  Dont make shoddy products that hurt people or carelessly endanger people.  Dont be negligent.  Its a good deal.  This is how America works.  Its a merit based system where the jury decides. 

The problem is no matter how you draft the rules, there are bad cases.  Under contributory negligence, someone who is seriously, seriously harmed may not be able to recover if they are say 2% negligent themselves.  That is terribly harsh! 

Then, under comparative, it gets all muddied up with all sort of frivolous cases (real ones) that make you pull your hair out. 

The coffee case, though, I have seen the pictures of the damage done to that lady.  If you were on the jury, you would have found for her.  She turned black.  Thats why trying cases in the media is a bad idea. 

Tying this back to the car, and general car stuff, I still havent gotten an answer for why Cadillac, BMW or anyone has to have a complicated, electronically controlled door handle.  Its not CAFE standards (the usual suspect when a modern car feature doesnt make sense), and it surely isnt safety standards...what is it?  Take lawsuits out of the question...why?

BTW, everybody keeps assuming in this little hypo attached to this guy that they get 14 hours in a 77 degree weather.  What if it was hot that day?  What if the car was black?  What if it was a pregnant woman?  All sort of things could make the situation end way worse.  Its all foreseeable that Cadillac may have to worry about a worse fact pattern down the road.     

[67_Eldo]

I mentioned the electric-door problem a few months ago in the context of a Corvette, a hot parking lot, an unfortunate man, and his dog.

http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=150322.msg396414#msg396414

I think GM should be sued. The brain, under extreme stress, does crazy things. I'm a software UI designer and technical writer so I've studied (and been subjected to) people who are under stress (for whatever reason) and want/need help NOW. It's not a calm, cool, collected audience we're discussing.

Reading a manual to get out of a car? How many people, really, will ever resort to *reading a manual* to get out of a car? How many folks -- even Corvette owners -- know how their car works well enough to ascertain the problem, even in general terms?

We're living in a drive-by-wire automotive world now, but manufacturers (understandably) do all they can to make it seem as though their vehicles still sport "mechanical" connections in their steering, braking, and acceleration systems. Why? Because we've got 100 years of car-operating precedent for Average Joe to lean upon. People shouldn't have to die because those traditional conventions have been short circuited purely for aesthetic or economic reasons.

Back in a much gentler time, I remember how freaked out my Mom was when the electric windows in her 1966 Toronado quit just after she and my aunt started out on a long drive to "Pepsi-Cola" Florida. I happened to be out (working on my car) in the driveway when she unexpectedly pulled up. Mom hopped out of the Toronado as it was made of anthrax. "The WINDOWS DON'T WORK" she screamed.

Granted it was a hot, summer day. But the Toronado's air conditioning could freeze out even the most hardened penguin. Mom and Aunt Edna weren't going to die. It took all of 30 minutes for me to visit the parts store, get a new power-window relay, install it, and demonstrate how the windows now zipped up and down like new. She refused to get back into the Toronado. The trip was cancelled. "What if *that* relay goes out? The windows will quit *again*!" It took a couple of days for her to calm down enough to regard the Toronado as something less than a FWD Death Trap.

When I think of how minor that power-window incident was and how completely unhinged my Mom became, I have no problem at all imagining the brain-freezing terror that must be boiling these Corvette/XLR owners' brains.

[67_Eldo]

Tying this back to the car, and general car stuff, I still havent gotten an answer for why Cadillac, BMW or anyone has to have a complicated, electronically controlled door handle.  Its not CAFE standards (the usual suspect when a modern car feature doesnt make sense), and it surely isnt safety standards...what is it?  Take lawsuits out of the question...why?

It is a deadly combination of arrogant, clueless, uninformed interior designers with overconfident, blustering, hopelessly naive engineers.

For more ugly automotive examples of this flavor of hubris, see Tesla.

[Scot Minesinger]

You just cannot engineer all of any possible problem out of any system. 

I agree that just because a company can, does not mean they should;, like I do not need a remote for my radio - the dials are within reach, the human hand is strong enough to open a car door, electric is not needed nor wanted, and etc.  When it is daylight savings in my 1970, I just reach over and twist the dial on my clock an hour - in a modern daily driver, you get out the 500 page manual, figure which of the ten radios you have, and then read thru five pages of how to change the clock.  Now on my daily drivers I don't even bother, when an annoyed passenger gets in, I have them read thru the nonsense and set the time for me.

By the same token, the hammer I bought yesterday did not include instructions stating that I should not smack myself in the head, should I commence legal action against HD?  As an engineer, I will not do business with a lawyer.  And funny many of my friends who are lawyers lie about their profession for this vary reason.  Anyway I agree with George.  It is way too litigious of a world out there - someone hurt or broken down by the side of the road - I'm not stopping or doing anything for fear of being robbed or sued.

[INTMD8]

Emergency lever along side the seat.

Same setup in the c6 Corvettes. They found an older guy dead in one a few years back as he was locked in it and couldn't get out. (dead battery, same thing as above)

Boggles my mind but I guess everyone has different capabilities and/or will to live.

That being said,  I absolutely hate these buttons for entry/exit.  Has just enough delay to spike my blood pressure and on older vehicles can be very difficult to work.  Solution to a problem that didn't exist. 

While I'm complaining I don't like fobs/push button start either.  The ignition was always a great place to put your keys.