1932 Cadillac V16 scale model

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Ah ha... So, if a car was converted to RHD, then that mounting would need to be swapped side to side?

I like it when one learns something new.

Bruce.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Most probably because the frame rails had different numbers between RH & LH drive side. I was not aware of that system until recently!

[goob]

Very interesting, Roger. It made me think! I looked under our 1931 Lincoln model K, it has a very similar setup, as does our 1935 Packard 8 Phaeton. The Packard has that bracket at the rear of the front spring! The oldest Cadillac we have is 1941 so it is too 'new' to have that setup! And here I thought I knew everything!! Thanks Roger, and stay well...

Gary

[Roger Zimmermann]

Gary, glad that you could learn something with a topic about scale model!
From another forum, I learned that some Dodge hat a similar system. I believe that shimmy was very common with the solid front axle; when manufacturers went to independent front suspension, this set-up was history. I'm wondering if the trucks in the US which were more or less derived from passenger vehicles had that system?

[Roger Zimmermann]

When something must go wrong, it does it! That almost insignificant mobile element from the "modulator" was intended to be done is so few parts as possible and, of course so little silver soldering as possible, especially due to the fact that my gas bottle is almost empty. The new one should arrive next week, but our post system is surcharged by on-line orders.
What went wrong? A lot of bad reasoning, too much milling at the wrong place. All that required adding small elements on a part which had "consumed" already some work' hours. Finally that stupid part could be assembled temporarily on the frame with 4 springs (rather weak for the moment). The empty holes on the sides are for screws which should locate the solid axles. They will be added during the final assembly.

[DeVille68]

wow, everything soo tiny and or but with so many details!

[Ralph Messina CLC 4937]

Roger,

I know you scratch build everything. I'm curious about the assorted size scale threaded nuts and bolts. Are there sets of cutting dies and taps for assorted sizes in this scale or did fabricate special tooling?

[Roger Zimmermann]

Yes Nicholas, those details is what makes the interest and are taking the most time!

Ralph: I'm buying bolts and nuts. To manufacture them in great quantity, some machines I don't have are needed. I have taps 0.5, 0.6, 0.7, 0.8 and 1mm. Unfortunately, I did not found very small dies; the smaller one I have is 1mm. I would be sometimes interesting to make threads on a 0.5 or 0.8mm rod. To achieve that, I have to cut the thread part of a bolt and silver solder to the rod.

[Roger Zimmermann]

As I just have only a little gas left for silver soldering, I began something needed no heat: the links for the shackles. On two previous models I did, it was just a flat part with 2 holes. On the Mark II, it was more complex. On the Cadillac model, there are 12 links: 4 at the rear of the front spings and 8 for the rear springs. At the rear, the ones at the front of the springs are shorter than at the rear, just to simplify! Those links are casted parts with the usual 2 holes for the spring's shafts and 2 more for bolts clamping the shafts. Plus other details we will see when I'm doing them.
I used one short and one long link as template to drill the other parts; next came the task to drill the holes for the clamping bolts. The bolts are just interfering the hole for the shafts; the latter have a recess to allow the bolt to be inserted. How to drill the holes with some precision relative to the holes for the shafts? The best way was to make a fixture to position the link during drilling. I took a scrap part and added a stop so I could do the 24 holes without too many difficulties.
I'm adding a picture from the original part for better understanding.

[Roger Zimmermann]

The next step was to mill the recess to get a "slim link". Again, the "special tool" from the previous picture was modified to have a larger flat section to support the part in work. This tool allowed me the have rather identical large ends on both links types.
With the mill I have, the recess was like a cliff, not inclined and without a curve at the top. This was done manually with a file. In the middle of this operation, I saw that one part is missing! I'm sure I had 12 pieces, the picture done a few days ago is attesting it! Finally, I had to do another piece; I spent less time to do it as I had for the unsuccessful search!

The last operation was to mill the slit allowing the link to clamp the suspension shafts. It took a long time till I found the way to machine the slit; in fact, I used a tool which is done for large parts, but the set-up was good. Of course, my milling tool had a too small diameter to have the slit done in one operation; I had to turn the part 180° to machine the other side.

The promised gas at April 8 is still not here. I will have to search to do parts without silver soldering...

[Lexi]

Fantastic work Roger! Never get tired of seeing the progress of this project. Hope you and your family are safe and well. Clay/Lexi

[Roger Zimmermann]

Thanks Clay! For the moment, we are safe and we are working to stay that way, even if it's sometimes difficult. I hope you and yours are also OK as well as the CLC members.

[Roger Zimmermann]

The long expected gas came early this week, allowing to quit the planning and cut and silver some brass for the front support of the rear springs which is also a support for the body. This simple casting is not so easy to do with flat brass and required lot of silver soldering. It would be presumptuous to say that this is a genuine reproduction of the original part as some difference are evident for me, compared to the many pictures I have.
Both elements are soft soldered to the frame; the rivets will have to wait (anyway I don't have any at the moment) because the 3. crossmember is attached to the frame with the same rivets.
Along with the model's pictures, I'm adding a picture from the real part.
Now, I will do a body support, much easier!

[Roger Zimmermann]

Recently, I did the last bracket supporting the body at the rear and soldered both sides to the rails. The rivets will be added later; they are ordered now with other screws nut, and so on.
Then, I did the  support for the running board. If the vertical support was easy to shape, the horizontal part of it required a pattern to shape it. With a scrap material, the shape was done by filing the excess brass away. It took much more time to do the pattern than to shape both parts on it!
The vertical and horizontal elements were assembled with soft soldering; smaller rivets have to be added. If you are looking well at the picture, you will notice that the lower part from the vertical element does not match exactly the shape of the horizontal one. Error from me or bad design? No! The similar parts on a V-8 frame are perfectly aligned but, as the frame from the V-16 is one inch deeper, the factory used the same vertical parts and had to do a different horizontal part to have the same distance between the floor and running board, creating that misalignment.

When I was in Germany to measure the frame, I knew I would miss important dimensions. The position to the running board support is one of them! The second cross-member is located near to the bracket, but I don't have his position either. I will have to wait until transmission and engine are done to locate the cross-member and brackets. By adding the length of the engine pan and transmission, I should get the real position from that cross-member, but something is not right: all engines are supported at the rear by two side supports; they are located by a hole at the frame; fortunately, I measure it. V-16 and V-8 have not the same support for whatever reason (probably the shape). However, all transmissions are the same. If I'm measuring the distance from that hole to the cross-member on the illustration from the V-8 frame in the shop manual , I have a considerable difference compared to my calculated position. I don't know why, I will maybe find it; the shape from the side supports and their location at the end of the engine could be the solution.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Thanks to Johan from the Netherland I have the correct position for the running boards. Thanks Johan!

[Roger Zimmermann]

Some time ago, I wrote about rivets and my thinking that most cannot be real rivets, but only for show, mostly when the other side of the rivet was obstructed, like the upper and flanges from the frame.
The problem was the same for the running board's brackets. The rivets for those parts are smaller (at least I have this impression) than the ones used on the frame. I tried with the proper quickly done tools to rivet by using a rod diameter 0.8mm (0.03") from a very soft brass. The main issue is to have the proper length which I had after one try. Therefore, the first 8 rivets from that model are done with a decent head in front like in the rear of the part. The head I got is a tad larger than the initial diameter which is what I expected.

[Roger Zimmermann]

With the help from Johan located in the Netherlands, I could position the various body and running board supports. Indeed, those supports for the 143" V-16 wheelbase are located at the same place as for the 134" V-8 wheelbase.
When the ordered cooper rivets will come, there will be some hammering to do!
Now, I will do the rear support for the rear springs. A very complex casting.

[Roger Zimmermann]

To help to understand the task I will do, I'm showing two pictures from that rear support, scale 1:1. You can see that taking dimensions is rather difficult as almost nothing is straight. From the shop manual, I have 2 dimensions: the axle distance to the axle from the front support for the springs and the distance from the top of the frame to the axle. I Germany, I took some dimensions which will help.  To have a better idea, I did a drawing scale 1:1 from that part, comparing the sketch to the many pictures I have. When I was more or less satisfied, I began to cut some brass. I did a major concept error: I did the holes for the axles and attempted to glue on the frame the flat piece I had. This method was indeed unpractical; I did the beginn of the part by screwing on the frame and then I could locate the hole. This is the next picture.
The next step was to add the rounded element on which the bearing will be silver soldered; this is the last picture.
In the meantime, I got the cooper rivets. They are good looking (like rivets!) and the material is very soft. The inconvenient: they are too long. I could shorten them with a file, but for more than 150 pieces, I will be mad long before all are ready. I will to a tool to insert the rivets from the back and put the tool into the lathe. This method should help to have a consistent length for all rivets. I just have to build that tool; this will be done after the supports for the rear springs are finished.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

One way to make a jig to make the rivets the right length would be to find a piece of stock, the same thickness as the rivet length.   Drill as many holes in a line to hold the rivets upright, and after clamping the stock down, with the long ends pointing up, simply run a cut-off wheel/grinder along the face of the stock, and voila, rivets the right length.

Need longer rivets, thicker stock.

Bruce.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Brilliant idea Bruce! I have first to calculate the shaft length, no matter which system I will use to shorter them.