What have you done with your Cadillac today?

[Matti R]

Simply soaking the new lifter in oil will not fill it with oil, as it needs the cycling and oil pressure to fill the internals.

What was the condition of the one you pulled out?  Was it concave on the bottom?  Plus, what was the condition of the cam Lobe?

Bruce.

Ok, so I need to run the engine with about 2000 rpm until knock stops?
I have not yet studied the old lifter. There was surface rust in the lobe.
I do not know how long the lifter has been stuck as I bought this some months ago.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Ok, so I need to run the engine with about 2000 rpm until knock stops?
I have not yet studied the old lifter. There was surface rust in the lobe.
I do not know how long the lifter has been stuck as I bought this some months ago.

G'day Matti,

Sorry, it doesn't work like that.   What you have done thus far probably cannot be undone by the normal running the Cam in procedure.

The spinning the engine for the 1/2 hour at 2,500 RPM, is for splashing the oil up and under and around the Lifters and Cam Lobes, to encourage oil microns to fill the micronic-sized imperfections in the Cam Lobes (Castings) to give a sheet of oil between the two surfaces.

I just pulled down the 454 that was in my '60 CDV when I purchased it, and it always had a bit of a "tick".   But, not enough to worry about.

Pulling the rocker arms I found that one Valve Stem had a worn top, as did the Rocker Arm.   Then after the heads were pulled, I had trouble getting the corresponding lifter out.   When I got it, the base was really concave, and looking at the cam lobe, that was destroyed.   As in, still there, but rendering the cam useless.

If this happened after the engine was built (it was a rebuilt engine), the clearance at the rocker arm with the pounding on the valve stem indicated that as this one lifter wore out, the clearance was too great, and too late to fix it.

Remember that the initial damage to a lifter/cam lobe happens in the first 5 minutes of starting.   As there is no galleried oil pressure and supply to these parts.

Bruce.

[Matti R]

Thanks
I think I can now follow break-in procedure. I have run the engine for some seconds only so far, and I used Redline assembly lube when installing the new lifter.

The bottom of old lifter was a bit concave.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Thanks
I think I can now follow break-in procedure. I have run the engine for some seconds only so far, and I used Redline assembly lube when installing the new lifter.

The bottom of old lifter was a bit concave.

In that case, your cam lobe will be shot.

Plus, installing a new lifter on the worn cam lobe will destroy the new lifter as the spring pressure will be on one extremely narrow circle, and the lubrication area will soon be wiped out by that bad seating.

Remember that the new lifter base should have a radius of around 30 Inches, as in slightly convex, meaning that the mating surface area would be about 0.0001".

Bruce.  

[Roger Zimmermann]

Probably be chance I had no such bad luck with my 3 cars: I used the original camshaft and inserted new lifters. I opened each lifter, put some oil into and reassembled. The engines did some noise at first but not for long. I never removed a lifter to see if they survived the bad treatment.

[Matti R]

In that case, your cam lobe will be shot.

Plus, installing a new lifter on the worn cam lobe will destroy the new lifter as the spring pressure will be on one extremely narrow circle, and the lubrication area will soon be wiped out by that bad seating.

Remember that the new lifter base should have a radius of around 30 Inches, as in slightly convex, meaning that the mating surface area would be about 0.0001".

Bruce.  

Thanks for info.
What is the option then?

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

G'day Matti,

I neglected to mention that the reason for the very slight convexness of the Lifter base, and the flatness of the Cam Lobe is to rotate the Lifter as it rides on the Lobe, thereby not allowing the lifter to settle into one position as it goes up and down.  This rotation also rotates the Pushrod for the same reason.

Plus, even though the Cam Lobe looks to be flat, there is a slight angle on it, to encourage the camshaft to rotate towards the back of the motor, so that the cam doesn't slop around within the bearings, and the thrust face of the Cam is held against the block.  This is also accomplished by the angle of the Distributor drive gear as it turns the oil pump.  Cannot have the camshaft moving forwards and backwards, as that will alter spark timing and wear out the timing cover.

Now, back to your problem.  Solution, I am not sure, but if it were my engine, I would be pulling it, with the idea of at worst a rebuild, as once apart, I hate putting stuff back together with old worn bearings, as they never go back together in the same spot.

Have you had a look at the other lifters to see what their bases are like?

My quick check is to hold the end of one lifter against the side of another one, and if the base is convex, then usually okay, and worth looking deeper, but if concave, as in seeing light through the centre, then not okay.   (In the picture, I am using the Cam Bearing Journal as the straight edge, as I tossed out the other lifters into the bin.)

The picture is of the lifter that came out of the aforementioned engine that was in my old '60 CDV.

Notice the chipping around the edge of the lifter where metal had been falling off?

There is a picture of the worn valve top where the parts had been rattling, with the adjacent one in good condition for comparison, plus the worn cam lobe.

This one part of the Valve Train was the only worn out part, but it meant that as the Cam was destroyed, the rest of the lifters had to be replaced to fit the replacement camshaft.

Plus, one has to remember that whatever came away, ended up floating around in the oil, only to be pulled through the oil pump, before hopefully getting caught in the oil filter.

Bruce.

[Matti R]

Thanks for long writing with info. Sure it is necessary to make a bigger refresh for this engine one day. I am busy with 64 engine rebuild so no chance to do this in near future.

Right now the problem with 67 DeVille is the knocking of one brand new lifter, and it does not stop after using engine 10min with 2000 rpm. I think I need to open rocker cover to check if still some slack with pushrod, and eventually take lifter out to check it if necessary.

[badpoints]

I spent Thursday and Friday afternoon and all day Saturday scraping , grinding, cleaning and naval jellying all the flaking undercoat and rust from under the 67 Sedan DeVille. I went from the rear doors back with the car on jack stands. It involved taking the tires on and off and moving the car in and out of the garage multiple times to wash with the hose. I only found one rotted spot, a drain hole in the corner near the bumper. I have everything primed with rustoleum rust resolver. I used five cans of the rust resolver. I must of gone in and out from under the car at least a hundred times. I would of top coated but it was humid Sunday. Instead I spent three hours cleaning my front grill with never dull. I am 60 years old and don't feel too young today.

[Lexi]

Never Dull is a decent product. Unlike some cleaners it seems not to leave a visible film after polishing. I suspect that it is not as abrasive as its competitors. Yes, once you hit 60 chores just seem to be more involved and physical, (and not in a good way). Clay/Lexi

[TJ Hopland]

My big thing was got the 73 out for only the 3rd time of the summer.  Goal was burn up last years gas so I can fill it with fresh stuff before the snow comes.  Had the top down for the whole day.  The $100 at the gas pump seemed a little steep for a day of fun but I guess nothing comes cheap these days and tearing up the whole fuel system next year to clean up 2 year old gas would likely cost way more. 

I also noticed some pretty bad wear on my front tires.  Guess I need to look at the alignment.  I think this is the first time I have ever 'worn out' tires on this car.  Most of the time its dry rot from age. 

[jwwseville60]

Visiting my 47 coupe in the shop today.
12V conversion, fuel pump, new radiator, carb rebuild.
Then my wife and I will go shopping in our 60 Seville.
And then Ill take a nap in the back seat of my 59 flat top.

[benji808]

Lot of cruising in our gorgeous fall weather for me and my '75 Eldorado.

Also installed a new blinker flasher (super easy to do)- guess the original finally had enough!

[badpoints]

My heater control valve is bad and bypassed with a hose. The valve has been sitting on fender wall. The auto climate control or any function hasn't worked in 30 years. I connected the yellow and purple vacuum lines together and plugged the red line. Now everything works, except the A.C. compressor isn't kicking on. I checked and there is still some pressure in the A.C. system. Have to figure whet type of freon to use. 

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

Beautiful Fall day in New England today....

Exercised the 1929 341B Roadster....

Mike

[skinny_tom]

Last night I got a little bit "art department" on the kids:

[badpoints]

rust removal

[cadillacmike68]

I'm watching hurricane Nicole rain on the red CTS while the Fleetwood laughs it it because the Fleetwood has a cover.   

[Professor]

Worked on bringing my 1976 CDV back from its 38 year hiatus. Changed the oil and oil filter, replaced the fuel pump and she fired right up.  I added some fuel treatment and an inline clear fuel filter to catch anything coming out of the tank.  Car has 13k miles on it and was stored indoors its entire life so not many issues except those associated with 38 years of sitting.  Engine fired right up but I need to change the accelerator pump unless I get lucky and it expands after sitting in fresh fuel.

All I smell is old varnishy fuel right now.  :-)

Joe

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

The weather is finally breaking to spring and I can get back to exercising the cars again....yesterday was the 1955 Eldorado....

Today the 1934 LaSalle was running really nice so I took her on a real nice long run.....A good day !!!   

Remember all that crap I had in the cooling system a couple of years ago, looking at that Gano radiator filter today it seems all is gone after the flush...

Here's a few of pictures of the 34 coupe Harry showed us yesterday that sold at auction....it does look good with the one solid color....somebody's gotta talk to the guy with the bumper jack though....


Mike