1973 Sedan Devile 472 CID motor rebuild

[Steve S Heracleous]

I decided to rebuild the motor in my 1973 Sedan DeVille. Issues were burning a quart of oil every 500 miles and unusual shaking of the engine that could not be resolved by rebuilding the ignition and fuel delivery infrastructure. Should've taken some compression readings but did not

I have the engine out of the car and stripped already:

[Steve S Heracleous]

I found it easier to remove the transmission from the engine and pull the engine straight up. Having access to a lift and an overhead crane to pull the engine makes this way too easy... 

[Steve S Heracleous]

First order of business were the exhaust manifold studs. Despite using heat, PB Blaster and Kroil, 11 out of the 16 studs broke. They broke like a twig. The shop charges $95 to extract the stud and re-tap. Nope.

Using Beydler's manibolt driller I was able to repair all 11 exhaust manifold holes. This is not magic. You will either go through a lot of drills or you have to have a drill sharpener. I had a drill sharpener and with a few extra drills, I was able to correct them. It will take time, no doubt about it.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

What a beautiful kit, but the initial price made my jump, but as I always say, try making one yourself cheaper.

Glad it worked for you, and now you will be able to start up your own little business in repairing friends engines with the same problem.

Bruce.

[TJ Hopland]

Interesting tool.   What does it cost?    I think after the first couple I would have been trying to grind the heads off and see if I could get the manifolds off.  If you can get the manifolds off with a stud sticking out then its a 93.5834% chance with some heat you will be able to work them out.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

US$499.99, plus postage is shown on the website, and that is just for one engine type/brand.

https://maniboltdriller.com/product/csb-209-g-cadillac-368-425-472-500-click-here-for-more-info/

Bruce.

[TJ Hopland]

Yikes.  Don't know what the market is like today but last time I needed a set of heads I paid less than that for them including shipping.

[chrisntam]

$500.00 isn't what it used to be.

And remember, you can't take it with you...

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Steve,Good to see all the sudden action around the Austin area. There have been about 5 new members or members with 69-74's.  Contact Ken Karrer in Austin, the Director of the Central Texas region if you haven't already.  Look forward to meeting you at a local event when we are able to restart them.
Greg Surfas

[Steve S Heracleous]

Thanks Greg, I will.

S.

[Steve S Heracleous]

So, my initial approach was to to strip the engine down to long block and have someone rebuild it. Then I realized that it would be the most expensive option and I would be out of the loop not knowing how well the job was done. Then I moved to stripping it down to short block and heads but then again there would be that element of not knowing how the block was put together. Finally I stripped the sucker down to bare block, heads, crankshaft, camshaft, rods, bolts and nuts and took the pieces to the machine shop with instructions. I will hopefully be putting it back together in about 3 weeks.

[TJ Hopland]

Look pretty clean.   Hopefully a sign that you are not going to find anything that was badly worn or abused. 

Do you already have engine building tools like cam bearing installer and decent size ring compressor?  If not add it to the list along with one of those deluxe engine cleaning brush sets that have the long narrow brushes you will want to shove through every hole you can find to make sure they are clean. 

Tips I can think of all learned the hard do it at least a second time way:

-get the new oil pump from one of the specialty vendors that checks them or read about the issues and check it yourself.  I'm not sure if its still a problem with new production like it used to be but the issues went on for years so who knows if its fixed.

-weld nuts to the inside of the timing cover for the 1/4-20 water pump bolts.   You can't see em from the outside so even if its going to be a show car its worth it to save possible damage and hassle in the future.

-keep the original hardware for the tins or if you do replace it make sure its the same type with the built in toothed flange.  Those new hardware kits are tempting but will mean you will forever have leaks because the don't stay tight.

-get a bolt and washer for the crank.  You can find them from large hardware suppliers but the specialty vendors have them and you will likely be getting other things from them so just add it to the order.   Its nice to have it there to easily turn the engine over.

-another things the vendors should have is plug kits for things like if you are removing the smog pump.   Little things like that can be a pain to track down otherwise and really slow the build.   

[Steve S Heracleous]

Thank you TJ, those are very good tips. I do have the cam bearing remover/installer and used it. Pretty slick. My limited experience is with the overhead cam Jaguar 4.2 cylinder engine (straight six). Cam bearings on this one is easy.

Got a bolt for the crankshaft. I believe it is 9/16" - 18.

"keep the original hardware for the tins" - you lost me there...   

I am definitely removing the smog pump. I believe there is only one vendor offering the replacement pulleys for a pricey $299. Is that the only option?

I need to look at the timing cover to see where exactly those bolts go to get a better visual...

S.

[Dr. John T. Welch]

Love Mac's Pivot.  Makes any engine remove/install  a safe one man operation for either FWD or RWD vehicles.  I will never R&R another engine even with transaxle without it.

[Steve S Heracleous]

Love Mac's Pivot.  Makes any engine remove/install  a safe one man operation for either FWD or RWD vehicles.  I will never R&R another engine even with transaxle without it.

Oh yeah - that engine removal was a one man operation. I also used in the past to replace the engine mounts. Tools make life a little easier.

[TJ Hopland]

Original hardware for the tins meaning all the bolts to hold things like the oil pan and valve covers.   There are several people that will sell you replacement hardware sets ranging from plain stuff to fancy stainless unique heads.  The originals had a built in flange washer with little teeth that really do a good job.    I bought a set of what were basically stainless regular hardware and they just don't stay tight even with loctite.   The locktite may work if you did it on a spotless engine but after its been used didn't seem to help.   Stock stuff didn't seem to have that problem.

There are 3 1/4-20 bolts for the water pump that only thread into the fairly thin material of the timing cover.  Because they are much smaller than the rest even reasonably seasoned mechanics often over torque them and strip the threads out of the cover which then causes leaks.   IF they are not damaged now just thread some extra bolts in then pin a nut down on the inside and weld the nut to the cover.    The bolt keeps the nuts threads aligned with the old threads and holds it while welding.

There were a couple of years that didn't commonly have the smog pumps like 70 75 and 78 but you then have to mix in the single or dual groove and really needing to get it as a 3 piece set of the 2 pulleys and the timing indicator it can take some time and luck to get all the parts these days so $299 may not be that bad of a deal . 

[Steve S Heracleous]

Original hardware for the tins meaning all the bolts to hold things like the oil pan and valve covers.   There are several people that will sell you replacement hardware sets ranging from plain stuff to fancy stainless unique heads.  The originals had a built in flange washer with little teeth that really do a good job.

There are 3 1/4-20 bolts for the water pump that only thread into the fairly thin material of the timing cover.  Because they are much smaller than the rest even reasonably seasoned mechanics often over torque them and strip the threads out of the cover which then causes leaks.   IF they are not damaged now just thread some extra bolts in then pin a nut down on the inside and weld the nut to the cover.    The bolt keeps the nuts threads aligned with the old threads and holds it while welding.

There were a couple of years that didn't commonly have the smog pumps like 70 75 and 78 but you then have to mix in the single or dual groove and really needing to get it as a 3 piece set of the 2 pulleys and the timing indicator it can take some time and luck to get all the parts these days so $299 may not be that bad of a deal .

Really good tips, thanks TJ.
I have all the tin but I typically replace it all. I source most bolt/nuts from McMaster Carr. Their selection is unbeatable. I will pay close attention now to what (if any) gets replaced.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

G'day Steve,

Now, did you find out what was causing the excessive oil consumption?   And how bad was the internals?

As for removing the AIR pump, that is easy, and as you are used to working with Jaguar stuff, then you can accomplish ANYTHING.

I removed the pumps on a couple of engines, and if you go to post No. 7  http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=144443.msg357185#msg357185  you will see how easy it is.

I have more pictures.

Bruce.

[Steve S Heracleous]

Now, did you find out what was causing the excessive oil consumption?   And how bad was the internals?

Well, most of the valve seals were disintegrated - hardened with time, broken off and becoming one with oil. Pistons looked fine. The crankshaft journal bearings and rod bearings looked worn. The crankshaft main and rod journals looked worn as well - no heavy scoring. Dropped the bits to the machine shop today. Won't hear from them for a few days. Hoping that polish would be all that is needed but as soon as I find out i'll let you know. The original timing chain sprockets  had some sort of a plastic covering which was gone long ago with only traces of it remaining....

As for removing the AIR pump, that is easy, and as you are used to working with Jaguar stuff, then you can accomplish ANYTHING.

That is probably not far from the truth.... 

I removed the pumps on a couple of engines, and if you go to post No. 7  http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=144443.msg357185#msg357185  you will see how easy it is.

I have more pictures.

I had a quick look but I need to study this in more detail... I am well versed to grinding and welding so when the time come I will hit you up for more pictures. That might be the way to go.

I do not recall if I mentioned this but I have traceability of this car to the original owner who bought the car in January of 1973 in Dallas, Texas. The car stayed within the family for 3 generations and has 65000 miles - a lot of them I suspect grinding broken pieces of valve seal and timing chain sprocket cover material. The engine had never been opened in the past.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

The original timing chain sprockets  had some sort of a plastic covering which was gone long ago with only traces of it remaining.... 

Have a good look inside the oil pickup screen and see if there are any of those plastic pieces in there, hidden.

When I pulled mine down, it took an hour to get all; the pieces out, with banging, scraping and generally shaking the screen, but I got them all.   Just don't put any holes in the screen, or you will be looking for a replacement.

Bruce.