79 Seville at Mecum Indy

[Rgcaddy]

Just left Mecum Indy, went to look at the black and white 79 Seville, was very disappointed. I went to bid and win, travelled 600 miles. Car is a mess, paintwork all over the place, aftermarket top with leaking glue spots, badges coming off the car, leather in poor shape, cracks in vinyl door covers. What amazes me is how perfect this car looked in the photos.  Only thing that looked good was the engine bay and undercarriage, so I don't don't the doubt the 30k miles but the rest of the car was a mess. Heres the shocker it sold for 27k!  Guarantee it sold to a net or phone bidder sight unseen. This is why I always go to look at a car, pictures can be very deceiving!!

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Congratulations on going to look at it in person.

I once had to work on a car that was purchased by looking at the pictures, and when the car arrived, it was the biggest piece of junk that should have never left USA.   

When comparing the original pictures to the actual car, it didn't look too bad, but looking at the same places, at 180 Degrees away, it was a totally different story.   

Photographs and descriptions from the Seller can be supplied but they usually only send pictures of the good bits.

Since that time, back in 1980, I have always recommended the prospective owner to go and have a look, no matter what it costs, as the money saved by not purchasing will be far less than repairing.   Plus, have a holiday at the same time, and if the purchase is successful, all the better.

Remember it costs the same for transporting anything no matter if the car is junk, or perfect.

Bruce.

[scotth3886]

Just left Mecum Indy, went to look at the black and white 79 Seville, was very disappointed. I went to bid and win, travelled 600 miles. Car is a mess, paintwork all over the place, aftermarket top with leaking glue spots, badges coming off the car, leather in poor shape, cracks in vinyl door covers. What amazes me is how perfect this car looked in the photos.  Only thing that looked good was the engine bay and undercarriage, so I don't don't the doubt the 30k miles but the rest of the car was a mess. Heres the shocker it sold for 27k!  Guarantee it sold to a net or phone bidder sight unseen. This is why I always go to look at a car, pictures can be very deceiving!!

As I found out 13 months and about $30k ago, plus of course the $34,000 price of the car.  I didn't fly out there because covid had just begun, and I didn't know how bad it would get, especially for a 78 yr old.  Plus, I couldn't get an inspector to go look. 

Lots and lots and lots of issues.  It's too late now so I'm putting whatever it takes to make it the car I thought I was buying. 

https://youtu.be/C3j7TMxK9N0

Tomorrow it goes in for steering box and coupler, which was almost torn in half, rear main seal and pinion bearing.  So it'll be another $3 - 4,000 bill.

[scotth3886]

Just left Mecum Indy, went to look at the black and white 79 Seville, was very disappointed. I went to bid and win, travelled 600 miles. Car is a mess, paintwork all over the place, aftermarket top with leaking glue spots, badges coming off the car, leather in poor shape, cracks in vinyl door covers. What amazes me is how perfect this car looked in the photos.  Only thing that looked good was the engine bay and undercarriage, so I don't don't the doubt the 30k miles but the rest of the car was a mess. Heres the shocker it sold for 27k!  Guarantee it sold to a net or phone bidder sight unseen. This is why I always go to look at a car, pictures can be very deceiving!!

This one https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0521-460820/1979-cadillac-seville/

Looks really nice in the pics.  Well, you gotta go look as I learned again.

[chrisntam]

It's got an alternator as big as a basketball.

[V63]

80 amp + alt That's usually the case with rear window defogger

[James Landi]

Scott,  your car looks beautiful in the video.  Not wishing to reengage you in bad memories, but what was NOT represented in the video?   Maybe others are curious, I certainly am,  but the video is very convincing.    I know there are a number of items that fail because of age and not miles on the odometer, and they can be challenging to track down... all those vacuum actuated devices, the medium sized repurposed tomato car "vaccum reserve tank" that develops seam leaks on the bottom (and is challenging to diagnose) , the infernal vacuum actuated rear air leveler... they were items that were "timing out" back in the 70's -- but your car looks to be lovely.      If you decide to do so, I, and perhaps others, will be interested in your challenges.  It's good to know that you're committed to fixing what's broken.It's a magnificient machine! James

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

80 amp alternator included when equipped with fuel injection, which of course was standard on Seville.

Rear defroster would not trigger the larger alternator but could be ordered separately.

First thing I noticed in the pictures in the Mecum presentation were the badly placed "Seville" and "Fuel Injection" trim parts on the left front fender which is almost a guarantee of paintwork at the very least. The fact that installation is so poor also suggests lousy workmanship.

[D.Smith]

$27K?     Sheesh!    Even if perfect that seems high.

[scotth3886]

Scott,  your car looks beautiful in the video.  Not wishing to reengage you in bad memories, but what was NOT represented in the video?   Maybe others are curious, I certainly am,  but the video is very convincing.    I know there are a number of items that fail because of age and not miles on the odometer, and they can be challenging to track down... all those vacuum actuated devices, the medium sized repurposed tomato car "vaccum reserve tank" that develops seam leaks on the bottom (and is challenging to diagnose) , the infernal vacuum actuated rear air leveler... they were items that were "timing out" back in the 70's -- but your car looks to be lovely.      If you decide to do so, I, and perhaps others, will be interested in your challenges.  It's good to know that you're committed to fixing what's broken.It's a magnificient machine! James

First, things went silent when my wire cleared and Bob Adams would neither take my call or return it.  Books and records were removed from the car.  Seller stated that he had title in hand.  He did not so took me a way long time to get the title.  The estate of the deceased still had it.  Refused to provide me name of previous owner, but forgot to remove the oil change sticker from the tint band of the windshield.  That was the mechanic.  He was most helpful.

EVERYTHING leaked.  Peeps say that once you start driving an old car, things will leak. True.  However, the driver for Horseless Carriage called from the road the first time he unloaded the car to move things around to ask me if I had looked at the car before I bought it.  He said it was leaking from everywhere, plus there were some bodywork aspects that I wouldn't be happy with.  Everything from the block forward leaked so that meant water pump, fuel pump, timing gear and chain, oil pump, valve cover and oil pan gaskets, all gaskets.  Everything original under there including the rubber fuel lines which snapped like a pretzel.  Mechanic said the clamps looked like radiator hoses were original and radiator never flushed, which I believe, but impossible on the radiator hoses, but they were the original one-use spring clamps.  Gas sending unit gasket leaked so strong smell of gas and it wasn't me for a change.  Tranny output shaft because bushing was torn up enough that it tore the seal out because of bad cv joints.  Steering coupler almost torn in half on the bottom.  Steering gear box leaked

Had a bad exhaust leak (notice that Bob Adams spends all of a 1/4 sec letting the buyer hear the engine) so I thought exhaust manifold gaskets, but nope it was a cracked heat crossover in the intake.  Couldn't get it stopped so got a couple pair of the crossover block off gaskets and a new intake to get it stopped.

Had a terrible time getting it to idle the way a Cadillac should.  Still dealing with the higher speed harmonic vibration and  we've done everything we could with cv joints, drive shaft etc., so ready to do pinion bearing next week along with steering box/coupler and badly leaking rear main seal.

He claims the A/C blows ice cold.  True, if freezing is 58 degrees.   Still sorting through climate control issues.  Hopefully, it's just the blend door vacuum pan.  We converted back to R12 and pressure look fine, but everything is original to the car.

Power windows mostly work.  He did not demo the vents for a reason.  Regulator gears were stripped.  Clock works, but can't be set.  Radio works, but can't be tuned.

"Arrow straight body work".  Notice that he doesn't shoot down the side of the car when it was up on his lift as he generally does.  Why Bobby, is there something you didn't want me to see?   You can guess why, and if not, see pics below.  Hard to see in pics of course, but far from straight. 

Paint was glossy, but had many 'mini' repairs spots shot and poorly done.  When it was painted nothing was removed and just masked over.  Ever the hood badge was masked and that would have been far quicker to just removed it.  In the right quarter over the fender skirt you see where a 'Morgan Knocker' was used to pull a dent out.   It's going to cost me $35 - 40k to get that all straightened out to my standard, and that is to a concours level show car.  Too bad I won't live long enough to see it completed.

Good things are that is the original vinyl top (don't know how that happened in Scottsdale on a triple black car and the car has no signs of any previous rust.  Oil was changed and the inside of the engine was very clean.  Brakes are very good. 

Many other issues too, so it's been very expensive post sale, but it's a stately looking car and attracts huge attention. 

The only item disclosed was the non-working cruise control.  Everything else was covered up and avoided in description and video.  Disclose and I'll deal with it or pass on the car.  If someone doesn't disclose and actively hides the issues in these days of social media, I'll haunt him for a very long time. 

Edit:  And another big one that I've been fighting with since I've had the car is a harmonic vibration at freeway speeds.  I've had the driveshaft at the driveshaft shop three times now as whatever is causing this tore up the tailshaft bushing and seal.  We've done balance, centering kits and cv joints multiple times so next week, pinion bearing.  And yes, we did axle bearings shortly after the car got here.  If that doesn't work, then tranny is next.

[bctexas]

If you watch Mecum on TV, and have not gone to one in person, you should do so if possible.  Your eyes will be opened.  Many cars that look fabulous under the lights on TV - sell cheap.  You think to yourself why....

Well, on TV once they interviewed a fellow at one of the auctions who they described as a dealer and frequent buyer.  He had been laying on the floor peering under a car using a flashlight.  They asked him "why are you doing that"?   His answer was "I have been told that you cannot polish a t*rd, but I see people doing it with classic cars all the time". 

Happy Motoring!

[scotth3886]

And yet some of the finest cars I've ever seen have been at the auctions.  BUT, you have to go lay eyes on them.

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

Fully agree. No matter how perfect the Auction house
purports the car to be, the only way to be sure is to
do a personal inspection.  Photos are nice but they
can hide many flaws that can only be uncovered by
an on site inspection. 

If you as the buyer are not knowledgeable enough to
know the vehicle you wish to purchase, send an
expert to look it over.  It could save you thousands.

Mike

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Amen on that. No substitute for being there to separate the glitter from the gold. Anything in condition 3 and better will appear perfect in photos unless the photographer takes special steps to highlight the flaws.

Door jambs are usually the first thing I'll dive into when checking any car which usually provide some of the most important clues as to what the car is. Incorrectly installed exterior trim items is usually visible in exterior images - which as soon as this is detected, I don't bother proceeding any further. 

[chrisntam]

How can you inspect an auction car?  Can you start it?  Can you drive it?  Or is it a "static" look only?  How can you run an auction car through it's paces?

[scotth3886]

How can you inspect an auction car?  Can you start it?  Can you drive it?  Or is it a "static" look only?  How can you run an auction car through it's paces?

All true.  However, when you see something like this, then you can be pretty sure the rest of the car is top notch.  This was the best black paint I had ever seen.

I don't have time left in my life to get my Fleetwood looking like this, but if I was 10 years younger or so, this is what I'd want.

[Chuck Patton]

Gregan

I'm ecstatic that you traveled 600 miles to learn about this car BEFORE bidding. A mantra of Matt Larson was "NEVER buy a car sight unseen".

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

As I found out 13 months and about $30k ago, plus of course the $34,000 price of the car. 

What???

[Rgcaddy]

Yes it was the right move going to look but given the photos I almost did not...glad I did. I was not the only one there who was shocked by the condition in person.   I did not even bother to bid on it.

[scotth3886]

What???

And hopefully, another $10k in mechanical will wrap it up.  If I do paint, then an additional $35 - 40k on top of the $10k