1950s 1956 steering center link or drag link assembly

[Cadman-iac]

   Daryl,

  Most definitely, I'll grease it til it's coming out of each opening.  I did that on the other one I went through, and that's how I know it takes almost a full grease gun cartridge to fill it. I've been using a waterproof grease for all the other parts of the suspension anyway, so I was going to use it for the steering linkage as well.
What do you think about this type? If you need more information about it, I'll grab the other cartridge and get it.
Thanks for the tip on what to use.

Just looked at it, it's got a NLGI of 1.5, whatever that means. I bought it after looking at everything else that was offered. This looked like the best one, it certainly was the most expensive, but that didn't figure into the decision.
Is this really a good grease, or did I fall for the advertising?

[Daryl Chesterman]

Richard, I did not see a brand on the cartridge, so I couldn't look up the specifications for it.  To answer your question about NLGI #1.5, it is a measure of consistency, with #1.5 being softer than #2.  The following website tells a little bit about grease specifications:

     https://www.skf.com/group/products/lubrication-management/lubricants/Understanding-technical-data-of-greases

The only way to compare greases is to get the specification sheet for each one and see which one has the best numbers.  The testing of grease, as well as other lubricants, is done by independent labs that use testing methods that are established by ASTM (American Society of Testing and Materials).  Usually, chassis grease recommendations are for NLGI #2 grease, so yours would be a little bit softer than what is recommended.  Since you live in Arizona, I would recommend that the next grease you purchase should be an NLGI #2, with the same base as what you have been using—lithium, aluminum, poly urea, etc., since it is recommended that grease bases should not be mixed when doing chassis lubrication.

Daryl Chesterman

[fishnjim]

Man-iac, if they got worn/mashed like that they must have done or failed to do something besides guide grease?   Maybe PO let it get too far gone in the past?
I'm considering the pressure implications.   In hydraulics, when there's a diam. reduction, it multiplies the force.   So the grease behind is compressing and squirting through that hole which pushes into the sockets.   But your's hasn't been functioning for some time and probably why it's trashed/modified.   I found another "brand" rebuild on utube and he had to rebuild/metal work his tube from too much ball play wear.
I started investigating, but haven't found much so far.   This era is well past.  I dont; even see any replacements.   I'd look at the later '60 kits(era end).  They may have bene dropped, but where in in '58.   I've been through this already, so I can't go back and run a test.   I can see some slight geometry changes, if you take up the slack with the end plugs.   But those ends are pinned and only have so much play.   Just have to insure no catastrophe ensues.
Darryl's spot on with the grease info, I've forwarded that link in the past.   I don't think NLGI(National Lubricating Grease Institute) ratings were around back then so no cross ref.   This is non-severe service, no temp or pressure, so regular old #2 grease is fine.   If it's too "thin" it'll run out and not stay where it needs to.   Lots of science in lube since '56.   
Moly is generally for the heavy stuff, like wheel bearings, balls, high temp/press, large, etc.   My diesel P/U truck specs it, but I don't know any cars that do.   Some think it's too risky should it get on brake drums/rotors, etc.   You get into owning a grease store, if you have every type they call for.   Some for warranty reasons, you have no choice.   I have a separate gun and branded tube for the old boat trailer, but not sure it's needed for the current one.  Another potential wall hanger!   NLGI simplifies.

[Cadman-iac]

  Daryl and Jim,

  Thank you both for your expertise in the matter of the grease types, I hadn't known that it was that complicated.  I have noticed that there are various types available, and they were of a different consistency. I'll be looking for one with a higher rating.

  I have experienced some of this particular grease begin to "drip" or run from being thin, but I had thought that because it was advertised as being waterproof that it would cling better and resist the running and separating that I've had from other grease in the past. I don't like that it drips/separates, and I've noticed that a lot of other greases do this same thing. I had bought a red grease that was supposed to be for suspension and steering linkage, and it would separate in the tube while sitting on the shelf. Not what you would expect from a grease that's advertised for high temp use. I haven't used all of it yet, but I had to start storing it in a plastic bag to keep it from making a mess of my shelving.

  Now I do have a small container of grease that is years old, and it's still very usable, but I don't have enough of it to use for this, and I didn't want to mix it with another brand or type. This particular grease is very thick and extremely sticky, excellent for suspension and steering linkage in my opinion. But the original container has long since deteriorated, and I had to transfer the grease to another one to keep it, or I would have had to throw it out, and it was too good to do that. It seems like it's a long fiber grease, if that's such a thing.
Would a grease with a high NLGI# be such a grease? And how can you tell if you can't open up the container or tube to see it?

Rick

[Cadman-iac]

   Gentlemen,

  I've figured out what those tin cups are for.
I decided a moment ago to start reassembly of that center link, so I put in the flat washer that keeps the rest of the pieces from going farther into the center of it. These sit against the 3 or 4, (forgot to count them) tabs that stick down inside the tube. Then I inserted the first pair of cupped pieces that grab the ball studs, and then the triangular spacer went in. When I was looking at the opening for the inner tie rod, which is a keyhole shape, I noticed that the end of the triangular spacer was visible in the opening, about as much of it as the height of the sides of those tin cups.
The tin cups are in there to help prevent the grease from coming out of the keyhole. There are covers that go over each opening, that sit on each ball stud for just that reason, grease retention.
The tin cups are just another thing that the factory used to slow the grease leakage from the inner tie rod openings.
They have no structural functionality at all. Basically they are just a baffle. You could probably make something that would do the same thing if you could find a piece of metal thin enough.
These tin cups are made of .010 thick metal, which in terms of strength for something structural, forget about it!
A baffle, that's all they are. How baffling it has been trying to figure this out.
So there you have it. And here's a few pictures to prove the point.  Hope this helps someone out later when they're looking at these two little tin cups, (or what's left of them), and trying to make sense of their function.

Rick

[Roger Zimmermann]

Interesting! You found the reason of those tiny parts. Despite restoring 3 cars with that system, I never asked myself the reason for those cups and reinstalled them the same way as they came out...

[Cadman-iac]

  Yeah,  I couldn't figure out what they were for when I did the last one of these center links, but because of the condition of the tin cups, (they were not usable either), I left them out and didn't think any more about it.
This time I had the forum to ask about it, yet still didn't get an answer. I was going to leave them out this time too, but kept thinking about it as I was putting it together. Then 4 pieces into it, it hit me, grease shields, or baffles! It's the only thing that makes sense.

  Rick

[Lexi]

That makes sense. Well done Cadman-iac! Clay/Lexi

[Cadman-iac]

Interesting! You found the reason of those tiny parts. Despite restoring 3 cars with that system, I never asked myself the reason for those cups and reinstalled them the same way as they came out...

  I would have done the same thing, just put them back in too. Except that the first time I did this, mine were pretty much destroyed coming out. I didn't know about this forum back then, and since I didn't see any possible use for them, (and I couldn't find any more anywhere), I just assembled it without those.
This time I had access to this great resource, yet still didn't find out what those actually were for. I resigned myself to putting another one together without them. I just lucked out as I was putting in the spacer, I had the opening for the tie rod facing me. I saw how much of the spacer was exposed through the hole when I finally realized what those flimsy things did. I almost had it right when I thought they guided the grease into the ball stud socket area and kept it from going around the cupped pieces, I didn't realize they were exposed through the opening, and I was only thinking about it, I wasn't looking at it. This time I had the pieces in front of me and it became so obvious, it was like a slap in the face. An "Ah hah" moment if you will.

So if you're trying to figure out something, besides just thinking about it, visualize it, look at it, it will come to you, (in my case, eventually, lol !!).

[Daryl Chesterman]

You are the man, Richard!!!  Now, if there were only a source for new tin cups, that would make a rebuild kit more valuable, since one or more of the tin cups seem to be destroyed upon disassembly of the center link.

Daryl Chesterman

[Cadman-iac]

  Thanks Daryl,
I was trying to think of something that would work in place of those, but not necessarily in the same spot. Something that would cover the opening and seal it enough that the grease doesn't come squeezing out around the metal cover that they put around each ball stud. Those are supposed to help keep the grease under control.
I was thinking, what if you have a thin rubber sheet just slightly larger than the metal covers that you placed between the cover and the center link. It would seal the cover, maybe not perfectly, but enough that the grease leakage is kept to a minimum. You could use them on all 4 openings too. The less grease that leaks out, the less often you need to lube it too.

Rick

Edit: it would be nice if we could find a source for these tin cups, you wouldn't think that they would be that hard for a shop to make. But the demand for this probably isn't big enough for someone to invest in the manufacturing of them.
And since we now know that leaving them out doesn't effect the safety of the steering linkage, the rubber seal idea might be the best solution to accomplish the same thing as the tin cups.

[Big Fins]

You would also need a type of rubber that isn't deformed by the grease itself. The residual oils in the grease may soften and distort the rubber to the point that it will now work against you and no grease at all with get to the pivoting ball.

One of the reasons you were to never use oil to lubricate the oil filter gasket, you used either a heavy fiber grease or Vaseline. It didn't distort the filter seal.

[Cadman-iac]

  John,
That's a very good point,  I hadn't thought about that factor. I have seen how some rubber will swell and disintegrate in oil or grease.
How would you determine the best type of rubber for such duty? Are there any ratings or codes that would tell you if it's able to withstand the effects of the grease on it?

  As for the oil filter seal or gasket, I've never heard of the oil causing any problems with it. In fact, the filter or the box it comes in usually has directions on it telling you to put oil on the seal/gasket before installing it.
Has the type of rubber for the filter seal been replaced with one less sensitive to the effects of the oil on it since the time that it was recommended to use grease or Vaseline?

Rick

[David King (kz78hy)]

You could make them out 0.010 shim stock, cut a disc the proper diameter and wrap some the same height around the disc and JB weld or solder.

[Big Fins]

  John,
That's a very good point,  I hadn't thought about that factor. I have seen how some rubber will swell and disintegrate in oil or grease.
How would you determine the best type of rubber for such duty? Are there any ratings or codes that would tell you if it's able to withstand the effects of the grease on it?

  As for the oil filter seal or gasket, I've never heard of the oil causing any problems with it. In fact, the filter or the box it comes in usually has directions on it telling you to put oil on the seal/gasket before installing it.
Has the type of rubber for the filter seal been replaced with one less sensitive to the effects of the oil on it since the time that it was recommended to use grease or Vaseline?

Rick

No clue, Rick. I'm not a chemical engineer. But, like you, I've seen rubber just swell up or simply dissolve when contacting oils. Whether the old way of using grease on the oil filter is long past the wayside, it may be. I was taught that waaaaay back when I first started working on cars, say about 50 years ago. It's just something that has always stayed with me and a practice I've always stuck to.

Even if you look into a tub of grease, you'll see the oil separating from the grease itself.  This applies to petroleum based greases. I'm not sure about the new synthetics.

[Cadman-iac]

No clue, Rick. I'm not a chemical engineer. But, like you, I've seen rubber just swell up or simply dissolve when contacting oils. Whether the old way of using grease on the oil filter is long past the wayside, it may be. I was taught that waaaaay back when I first started working on cars, say about 50 years ago. It's just something that has always stayed with me and a practice I've always stuck to.

Even if you look into a tub of grease, you'll see the oil separating from the grease itself.  This applies to petroleum based greases. I'm not sure about the new synthetics.

Thanks John,

Yes, I know what you mean about how the grease will separate in the tube or tub.  I have a tube of red grease that's for wheel bearings and I think suspension and steering,  that I have to keep inside a plastic bag. If I didn't, I'd have a big mess. Inside the tube is the sticky stuff, and outside the tube, (caught by the bag), is the runny stuff. I'm not sure exactly how this grease is supposed to perform once it's squeezed into a tie rod or ball joint, but apparently it's a problem with a lot of various greases. You can see evidence of this on every greasable pivot point on every older vehicle in the country. Big globs of wet dirt stuck to them.

  I know what you mean about old teachings and habits. My dad had taught me that you don't sit a battery on the bare concrete or dirt, you put it on a piece of wood, or the battery would be drained of power by the next day. Of course this was proven false, but he believed it until his passing.
I can see why the Vaseline idea came about, although whomever thought of it should have been thinking about the oil that gets on the seal from the inside as the engine is running.

  You are correct about the effect of grease on rubber. I wish I knew a way to tell which rubber would be affected by this,  it would make finding some for this particular usage a lot easier than a trial and error method. But it may just come to that.
Thanks for your thoughts and input on this. Definitely gives me something more to think about.

Rick

[Big Fins]

Sometimes being a dinosaur works, sometimes it doesn't!