1936 7029 engine replacement

[dawicker]

I am beginning an engine replacement (with the tranny) on my 36. I took 4 years to find one, and this one was from a running car (the seller was replacing it with a modern engine - not something I would do but he had his reasons). I have removed the hood (had to build a cradle to support it and lift it with and engine hoist). It looks like the next step is to remove the radiator, then the front cowling. It looks like the bumper may need to come off the remove this. The rest looks fairly straightforward. Does this sound correct (anyone who has done this)? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Dave Wicker

[KenZ]

Hello,
I replaced an Engine in my 1936 Series 7529 awhile back. Sounds like you have the basic idea from what I have gathered over the years. I was able to remove and install the engine itself with a Gantry.  This enables you to vertically lift the engine out without having to remove the front section of the car.  With the smaller series cars you may not have a whole lot of room to make this work, but not sure about the 70 series cars.  Is your replacement a 1936 engine?  As you may know, 1936 is a one year only engine design and mounts differently than the later year flatheads. Should also be some similiar threads on this forum when you do a search. Feel free to contact me with any questions.  Good Luck,  Ken             

[dawicker]

Thanks Ken! Yes it is a 36 engine. I actually picked up two of them, both from running cars. Couldn't believe my luck finding them! I helped to original owner remove one but he had already removed the front, so I didn't see this part. With the tranny attached, the front has to come off. I could replace only the engine, in case I might be able to get it straight out, but then I have to line up this 1000lb best with the tranny which doesn't sound like much fun so I'm going with both together.

Dave

[dawicker]

I could use some guidance at this point. I need to remove the radiator and the cowling ( probably not the right word for it) but it is not clear how to proceed. The radiator clearly cannot be removed first as it must be lifted from a bracket, but the cowling is in the way. There are a series of bolts on both sides that attach the radiator to a bracket, and the bracket to the cowling. However, there is no access to the nuts on the other side without removing the grill. There are two long bolts that attach the top of the grill, and there are six bolts you can see that attach to brackets behind the grill with what appear to be springs between them, but it is not clear that this holds the grill. If the bolts are removed, it appears these springs may fall out, which seem impossible to reattach through the grill. Can someone please explain what is going on here? I cannot find any reference to any of this in any manual I have. I downloaded the available manuals from the GM Heritage site, but nothing there about radiator removal or construction.

[Classic]

Actually, it is easier to remove the whole front end assembly as one unit (fenders and supports, grille shroud and head lights, radiator and supports).  Headlight harness loosened.  Inner fender panels removed separately?(don't remember).  Remove bumper and brackets first.  Advantages: tremendous access for removing and installing engine and trans as one assembly and easy access to radiator, keeps front end sheet metal in alignment.  I think this is how they did it at the factory.

Gene

[KenZ]

Dave,
You may be considering the procedure posted by Classic but if not then this may help.  Regarding the grill, you have to unscrew the two top screws and then the lower six that have a sliding bracket.  After loosening the six bolts enough, just slide the brackets out of the way with a screw driver so you can pull the grill out.  It may be a little tight after being in the nose for a period of time. Mine has no springs. The Radiator is another tight fit and is heavy. After detaching the Radiator in the support housing from the car I had to remove the fan, water/fuel pumps and cowl support rods for clearance.  This is where the Gantry again helps out.  I hooked the radiator to the Gantry with two pieces of chain attached either side to the Radiator support housing.  Proceeded to lift with the chain hoist slighly tilting while going up.  Alot easier with two people. While the radiator is out maybe a good time to get it cleaned if needed.  Also make sure the engine being installed is free from crud and debris especially after cleaning the radiator (Lots of info on the forum regarding block cleaning). Have Fun!  Ken           

[dawicker]

Gene;

Thanks for that hint. It may solve the next problem I see and that is to remove the cowling I have to disconnect the headlights, and I don't see how to do that. Removing the front end as a unit may let me avoid that problem. I'll go and check that. There appears to be something missing at the bottom of the headlights as there is a small bracket with a threaded hole, but nothing attached. Not sure how to remove the bezel without scratching the paint!

Ken;

Thanks, I figured out the grill removal on my own and it made perfect sense what was going on after I loosened one of the six bolts. Easy peasy after that! I know the radiator is heavy as I picked up two of them from the guy I bought the engines from, so I have spares if needed. They are not like modern aluminum ones for sure. I will probably use the engine hoist or wait till my 20 year old son is available!

Dave

[dawicker]

I looked at removing the whole front end, but those fenders are long and no doubt very heavy! That is a lot of metal to be moving around! For me, and my somewhat limited space, that risks chipping the paint in the process. I also have the two spares in the fenders, so they would need to be removed (else more weight!) with the additional risk of ruining the finish, so I'm going to stick to just removing the radiator cowl. But now I need to figure out how to handle the headlights. I could cut the wires, but they are bundled and that doesn't seem like a good option either. Does anyone have any suggestions, especially based on personal experience?

Dave

[KenZ]

Dave,
By any chance do you have a extra front 1936 engine mount?  I had to fabricate one because the original was not usuable. Thanks  Ken   

[dawicker]

I don't have one but can ask the guy I got the engine from, he should have it if he hasn't tossed it out!

Also, does anyone know the best way to connect to the engine for lifting it out? I don't see any obvious lift points, ans a strap won't keep it from rolling over. I know this because when removing the engines from the trailer after I bought them, one of them rolled over and dumped both the engine oil and tranny fluid onto the trailer floor! Not a good way to end the day! Also, the "best" strapping point looks like the third row of spark plugs. It would be nice not to have to remove stuff from the engine if it can be avoided.

Dave

[dawicker]

I figured out the headlights and thank god they have a connector to the wiring harness, so that job is done. 4 bolts (I think) to go to remove the radiator surround, and then the radiator and onto the engine mounts!

Still could use some suggestions on supporting the engine/tranny when removing. My thoughts at the moment is to construct a support harness using straps supported by steel beams/pipe and hanging from the engine hoist.

Ken;

I checked with the guy I bought the engines from and he doesn't think he has one but he was going to double check.

[dawicker]

Radiator cowling came out without much problem, and I removed the radiator using the engine hoist, easy! Drive shaft and engine mounts are all that I think are left, then the big lift! I will get tight with three engines and all the other hardware lying around, but hopefully it will fit and still leave room to manuever the new engine back in. This has been a long time coming and I can visualize the (hopefully) successful end to this endeavor!

I could use some opinions on a couple of other issues. Since the tranny oil all leaked out (into my trailer), I had to get new oil. Wow, that was an eye opener. The manual calls for  an obsolete grade of 160W oil; also you need GL-3 or below oil because of the bronze/brass used. Very little of this type of oil seems available, but I found Miller's Green gear oil on Amazon. It's 140W GL-1 for older cars. Does anyone have experience with this stuff, or opinions on what should be used?

Second topic is a heater. I picked up a 36 heater and need to fit it. They apparently made several types, this one is connected to cooling system and has a blower. Does anyone have experience fitting a heater of this type? Not sure how to route the hoses - haven't looked to see if there are holes in the firewall to accomodate this or if I will need to makes them. Thanks in advance for any helpful hints or informed opinions!

Dave Wicker

[KenZ]

Dave,
Napa sells StaLube SAE 140 Gear Oil GL 4 that I have used for the tran and rear end.  Again, there is info on the forum probably if you do a search.  I have the 1936 Cadillac Heater but do not have the hoses hooked up since I don't really need heat in Phoenix, Arizona.  Someone out there should be able to send you a couple of pics.  There are holes in the fire wall that the mounting studs slide thru.  As for the engine lifting points, we made two brackets that bolted onto the intake manifold on opposite sides front and back. Then hooked with a couple chains to the hoist. I was only pulling the engine and bell housing. Thank you for inquiring about the front mount.  Please send pics of the car when done.  Thanks Ken         

[dawicker]

Ken;

Thanks much for the info. I will try the intake manifold bracket, sounds like a good option. Still no word about the engine mount, so probably long gone.

Dave

[bcroe]

I know nothing of a 36, but all my front engines could be installed
by dropping straight down, hood previously removed.  Checking
fit of a trans before hand is good.  I have seen the yard gorillas
pull the engine and trans together, not caring what damage was
done to them or the rest of the car, or the oil mess. 

The only way I would consider doing that is with a front driver
so the engine and trans can be kept level going in. Otherwise it
sounds like an invitation to get oil and trans fluid all over. I would
certainly much rather get under there to attach the trans, than have
to deal with that mess.  And I certainly do not want to be tearing
apart parts not involved in the repair.  Or digging holes in the drive
to do it. 

Sometimes a tool or 2 is needed to support the engine and/or trans
until all is hooked up.  A couple of these are nothing but a couple
angle irons bolted together with a spacer.  A couple threaded hooks
can slide along the slots for a good position to hook into the frame,
a block of wood in the center holds things up till secured.  These
still allow the car to moved around or up and down. 

I prime my engines with oil, need the starter etc to do it. Once done
the engine needs to stay level. I see the little effort and patience to
get it done with no damage and no mess, as well worth it. Any used
automatic will have gallons of fluid in it. Bruce Roe

[harry s]

I have used a four point engine lift with a leveling adjuster for tilting as the engine comes out. It has four chains that you can attach to the corner head bolts or manifold bolts. I don't remember where I got mine but I'm Harbor Freight, NAPA or Northern Tool would have them. Just be sure it is rated for the weight. I pulled the engine and hydramatic which weighs about 1200#.

[dawicker]

Many thanks to everyone who offered suggestions. I ended up removing only the engine, and used the leveling attachment from Harbor Freight which I may not have needed but it simplified the engine attachment. I attached it using the upper two bell housing bolts and the fan support bracket to put the engine in and it slid in place without much trouble. After reattaching all the fittings and wires, she fired right up and purred like a kitten, then roared like a lion when I stepped on the gas!

Dave Wicker

[LaSalle5019]

For your transmission you should use the GL-1 oil and the Gl-4 for the rear axle. Personally, I use 90wt GL-1 in my 1939 LaSalle. The GL-4 has extreme pressure additives for the high sliding friction found in hypoid gears. For the synchronized manual in your car you want to move the oil off the ID of synchronizer ring ridges and the higher viscosity oil and EP additives resist that. I spent 3 years as an engineer manager at GM in manual transmission development so I have some experience in the area.

Before pulling the engine, I pulled the transmission, manifolds, starter and heads off the engine first. Primarily because the car makes for a much better support when fighting with the head bolts, but also to save a little weight as that engine is pretty heavy. When I pulled the engine, I used a strap but then went to Harbor Freight and like Harry above, I bought the four point lift chain. Not a big fan of most of the Harbor Freight tools but it works pretty well. I reinstalled the engine with the trans installed but the heads off - again, easier to torque sitting in the car.




If you are interested in a comprehensive document detailing the rebuilding of a flathead Cadillac, just send me a PM with your email address and I'll forward it to you.
Scott