News:

Please note that, while reinstating users, I have noticed that a significant majority have not yet entered a Security (Secret) Question & Answer in their forum profile. This is necessary for a self-service (quick) password reset, if needed in the future. Please add the Q&A in your profile as soon as possible

Main Menu

Generator burnout

Started by Cadillac Jack 82, July 01, 2024, 01:46:25 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Cadillac Jack 82


So as some of you may have seen the 59 fried out another generator this past Friday while trying to limp her back to her garage.  Just dropped off the burnt-out unit and another similar unit (both "restored") and at first glance the guy at the counter said, "melted solder and one has a shady looking field coil".  Both were purchased on Ebay through sellers with good ratings.  I'm curious to see what might be causing this.  Is it just cheap material or poor workmanship?  Perhaps there's a problem with the 59 thats causing it?  As of today she has a new battery, all new charging leads/cables, NOS voltage regulator, and a new ignition coil.  Volt meter shows it charging at 14.1 volts.  What gives?
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1948 Buick Roadmaster 76S Sedanette
1959 Cadillac CDV
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Coupe
1940 Chevy Coupe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Super Panama
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1964 Cadillac SDV
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

TJ Hopland

Can you open the regulator?  If it can reasonably be done may be worth it for an inspection.  Could be some corrosion maybe making things stick occasionally or otherwise not always function correctly. 

14.1 at idle with a fully charged battery?   Like after a drive with minimal load like no ac sort of thing.  Is it stable if you rev it up?

Have you added anything to the car that would have increased the electrical load?  If so you could just be overloading it.
73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI, over 30 years of ownership and counting
Somewhat recently deceased daily drivers, 80 Eldo Diesel & 90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Cadillac Jack 82

Regulator was brand new old stock.  I can open it up and its the adjustable type.  14.1 at idle and it'll get up to 14.5 if I rev it.  I haven't tried to put a full load on it as I don't want that possibly kicking out until I get the other two units back in a few weeks.
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1948 Buick Roadmaster 76S Sedanette
1959 Cadillac CDV
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Coupe
1940 Chevy Coupe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Super Panama
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1964 Cadillac SDV
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

bcroe

Does sound like excess current, do you have big loads? 
After a few problems with my 62, I put in an internally
regulated alternator, which is designed to current
limit without any regulator help.  Bruce Roe

Cadillac Jack 82

Everything on the car is 100% stock.  Most of the time I'm driving I just have the radio on.
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1948 Buick Roadmaster 76S Sedanette
1959 Cadillac CDV
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Coupe
1940 Chevy Coupe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Super Panama
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1964 Cadillac SDV
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

Cadillac Jack 82

Okay this may be a silly question but will not having a condenser by the voltage regulator cause too much of a draw from the gen?  I didn't have one installed this entire time, only by the coil.
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1948 Buick Roadmaster 76S Sedanette
1959 Cadillac CDV
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Coupe
1940 Chevy Coupe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Super Panama
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1964 Cadillac SDV
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

Big Fins

I'm going to say, no.

One of the electrical experts will chime in, I'm sure.
Current:
1976 Eldorado Convertible in Crystal Blue Fire Mist with white interior and top. (Misty Blue)

Past and much missed:
1977 Brougham de Elegance
1976 Eldorado Convertible
1972 Fleetwood Brougham
1971 Sedan de Ville
1970 de Ville Convertible
1969 Fleetwood Brougham
1969 Sedan de Ville
1959 Sedan deVille

Joe G 12138

Quote from: Cadillac Jack 82 on July 01, 2024, 02:26:12 PMRegulator was brand new old stock.  I can open it up and its the adjustable type.  14.1 at idle and it'll get up to 14.5 if I rev it.  I haven't tried to put a full load on it as I don't want that possibly kicking out until I get the other two units back in a few weeks.

      In my experience, just because a voltage regulator (or anything with contact points ) is NOS or "Rebuilt" does not necessarily  mean it's ready for "plug and play" as most consumers today would expect on purchase. A small film of oxides can form on the contact faces during decades of storage; even sealed in a Delco Can. Before I install them, I open them up and carefully  clean the contact surfaces with contact cleaner and crocus cloth (or matchbook striker or contact file etc.
      Personally, I also bench test and adjust mine if necessary. But that's because I've got a variable DC supply available and it's practical. That way if there's abnormal happenings when it's back on the car I know to look elsewhere; not the regulator.
      If I remember right, weren't you having very similar issues with generators / regulators back in your LaSalle days?

Cadillac Jack 82

Quote from: Joe G 12138 on July 03, 2024, 08:49:12 AMIn my experience, just because a voltage regulator (or anything with contact points ) is NOS or "Rebuilt" does not necessarily  mean it's ready for "plug and play" as most consumers today would expect on purchase. A small film of oxides can form on the contact faces during decades of storage; even sealed in a Delco Can. Before I install them, I open them up and carefully  clean the contact surfaces with contact cleaner and crocus cloth (or matchbook striker or contact file etc.
      Personally, I also bench test and adjust mine if necessary. But that's because I've got a variable DC supply available and it's practical. That way if there's abnormal happenings when it's back on the car I know to look elsewhere; not the regulator.
      If I remember right, weren't you having very similar issues with generators / regulators back in your LaSalle days?

Joe,

Yes my 37 was eating up batteries until I had the generator rebuilt by a reputable company in Springfield, VA.  That fixed my charging issue.  I currently have two "rebuilt" generators being looked at/fixed by a reputable company here in Mesa, AZ.  Hopefully that will fix my issues.  As of now she's charging with an older rebuilt Gen.
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1948 Buick Roadmaster 76S Sedanette
1959 Cadillac CDV
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Coupe
1940 Chevy Coupe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Super Panama
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1964 Cadillac SDV
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

Cadillac Jack 82

So GENCO, a company here in Mesa, AZ, said that both generators require a rebuild.  One has a bad armature and the other both an armature and field coil (this one had been rebuilt twice by the same guy).  As mentioned before I've switched out my old battery for a new one and the voltage regulator is NOS and the contacts clean.  What would cause those generators to fry out?  Bad parts?  Poor workmanship?  GENCO is renowned here for their rebuilds so I'm hoping this is the end of the road for toasty gens.
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1948 Buick Roadmaster 76S Sedanette
1959 Cadillac CDV
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Coupe
1940 Chevy Coupe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Super Panama
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1964 Cadillac SDV
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

Big Fins

Swap in a 10 SI. It's simple deal. I know you run no power draws. Eliminate the regulator and wiring and have a steady charge rate.
Current:
1976 Eldorado Convertible in Crystal Blue Fire Mist with white interior and top. (Misty Blue)

Past and much missed:
1977 Brougham de Elegance
1976 Eldorado Convertible
1972 Fleetwood Brougham
1971 Sedan de Ville
1970 de Ville Convertible
1969 Fleetwood Brougham
1969 Sedan de Ville
1959 Sedan deVille

Cadillac Jack 82

Nope if it wasn't equipped with it, I'm not playing the modifying game.  Both cars are 100% OEM and I try to source only the correct stuff for it.  Pain in the backside?  Absolutely!  Worth it?  Maybe not to some but for me it makes me happy.
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1948 Buick Roadmaster 76S Sedanette
1959 Cadillac CDV
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Coupe
1940 Chevy Coupe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Super Panama
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1964 Cadillac SDV
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

Big Fins

No argument from me. I'm only a purist to a degree.

I just had so much extra on my '59 that OEM wasn't possible. A/C, 700 watt sounds, electric fans, etc... I had a 150amp 12 SI running things.
Current:
1976 Eldorado Convertible in Crystal Blue Fire Mist with white interior and top. (Misty Blue)

Past and much missed:
1977 Brougham de Elegance
1976 Eldorado Convertible
1972 Fleetwood Brougham
1971 Sedan de Ville
1970 de Ville Convertible
1969 Fleetwood Brougham
1969 Sedan de Ville
1959 Sedan deVille

Cadillac Jack 82

Yeah the 59 is far too original to be adding extras on her.  She's never been restored or messed with so I intend to keep her that way :)
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1948 Buick Roadmaster 76S Sedanette
1959 Cadillac CDV
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Coupe
1940 Chevy Coupe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Super Panama
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1964 Cadillac SDV
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

J. Gomez

Tim,

There are multiple things that may cause a generator to "burn-up" age (mechanical or electrical), bad VR or pitted contacts, failure to polarize it, heavy load due to either a weak or bad battery by constantly providing a charge w/out cycling on/off, etc.

If the solder at the commutator from the armature windings got melted that is an indication of either/or very high RPMs or excessive heat cause by high amp loads.

The field coils will make the necessary current is produced by the generator to build up and increase until it can be use by the battery and the accessories.

The field coil can go bad same as the commutator (shorted windings), having either or both go bad on the generator is a toss-up between the causes above.

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082