1950s 365 oil pressure

[Big Fins]

The really good news is...you didn't wipe out your new engine.

[walkerj]

Update time. It still doesn't work.

The old and new pump will both pump oil on the bench when I turn them by hand.  So I mounted the new pump to the block, and with the pan off I submerged the pick up in the same container filled with oil as I had on the bench. I spun the drill and I could feel the pump fill with oil and the level in the container dropped a bit. Just enough to fill the pump. 

No pressure on the gauge. No oil anywhere else in the block.

With the drill stopped, the oil runs back out of the pick up and into the container.

Im out of ideas with this.  Im thinking I might as well cut my losses and sell this engine and buy an LS with whatever I can get for it.

The guy I bought it from said his car was cursed. Im starting to believe him.  His car didnt run right because the engine was trashed. He bought this engine and rebuilt it. It was freshly machined, all new parts. He gave me all the recipts and I even spoke to the shop that worked on it. He couldnt get it to work. The shop is stumped and now Im also on the ropes. 

Unless one of you guys has any ideas Im just going to throw it on marketplace and see what I can get for it.  Summer is coming and I dont want to waste any more time chasing wild geese. 

[Roger Zimmermann]

I'm wondering if the oil canal is blocked by dirt or whatever which could avoid to let circulate the oil? Did you try with compressed air to blow into that canal?
Another try if posible: remove the rear cap to see if the bearing shell is the right one?

[dn010]

I'm wondering if the oil canal is blocked by dirt or whatever which could avoid to let circulate the oil? Did you try with compressed air to blow into that canal?
Another try if posible: remove the rear cap to see if the bearing shell is the right one?

I have the same thinking. There are only so many things it can be. With the pump working, the next thing to look at are the oil passages. You can either use compressed air like Roger suggests or they make long oil gallery cleaning brushes you can buy. I know many people who, unless they have their engine professionally done at a machine shop, don't bother cleaning any of the oil passages and you'd be amazed at how full of debris they can get.

If you're near Florida, I would be interested in taking over the battle.

[tcom2027]

Rogers' suggestion of pulling the rear, or possibly the front main is a good one.

I rebuilt a 346 years ago and had no oil pressure. Crank had been turned .020"under. The bearing set I received had front and center shells .010": over, Took a while to figure that one out. A call to Egge resolved the problem.   

I use an air drill with a regulator, Spins faster than an electric or a cordless drill.

Does the engine turn over freely and have you tried spinning up the installed pump while turning the engine over slowly?

Remember, it ran a lot of miles before the rebuild. Something is missing or not installed correctly. It's easy for the improbable to become the possible.

THese suggestions may not help, but might help eliminate the improbable.

Lesson learned: Trust, but verify. I should have taken the time to PLasiGage the rods and mains when reassembling the engine.

tony

[walkerj]

I tried everything the previous owner did and everything else that has been suggested. I tried everything I did before when building engines. It just won't work.

I could feel the pump fill up. The drill spins wild and free and then starts to slow when the pump fills up with oil.  It spins until it starts to smoke but the gauge shows nothing and the passage leading to the gauge is completely bone dry.  The only difference this time is there was no gulping sound like there was before.

I guess Ill list it as a whole and see if somebody wants it or part it out.

Two rebuilt heads, two unrebuilt heads, exhaust manifolds, two water pumps, two rebuilt carburators, rebuilt generator, rebuilt PS pump, rebuilt fuel pump, restored oil bath air cleaner, all new internals. Plus the transmission.  That should be enough to get an LS of some kind. 

Its a pain having to convert to that but Im not impressed with the 365 anyway. Mine was junk. The other guys was junk. He got a new one and built it. It didnt work for him and it didnt work for me either. Seems like a great engine to look at and work on but not so great for going anywhere.

[dn010]

Where is this located?

All those parts sound great and I hope you do get enough for your next plan, but you're going to be selling something to someone who will need to take it all apart and essentially rebuild it all over again which not everyone is eager to do meaning you're selling something to a lesser crowd.

Also, there is nothing wrong with a good running 365. I dumped the original carb and fuel pump and went with an edelbrock and electric pump. Mine fires off after a few rotations, even after sitting for weeks, and is plenty powerful once I floor it.

What was wrong with your current engine, not the rebuild, that you say it was junk?

[J. Gomez]

@walkerj,

Hmm something does not sound right, not sure what or where.

If you look at the Service Manual the main oil passage "vertical oil header" goes from the oil pump feed up to the plug "T" where the oil pressure switch connects, from there is feed the two left and right "longitudinal headers" there are plugs on the end of the headers at the heads that can be removed to check oil pressure/flow.

Maybe there is a blockage somewhere on the "vertical oil header" have you try removing the oil pump and try Roger's suggestion in shooting compressed air up that feed?

Removing the oil pressure switch could also be used to shoot compressed air and removing the plugs from either side of the heads can be a source for checking or testing as well.

Not sure if a scope camera can be used to inspect these header but something to give it a try if the tip of the camera fits inside.

[walkerj]

Where is this located?

All those parts sound great and I hope you do get enough for your next plan, but you're going to be selling something to someone who will need to take it all apart and essentially rebuild it all over again which not everyone is eager to do meaning you're selling something to a lesser crowd.

Also, there is nothing wrong with a good running 365. I dumped the original carb and fuel pump and went with an edelbrock and electric pump. Mine fires off after a few rotations, even after sitting for weeks, and is plenty powerful once I floor it.

What was wrong with your current engine, not the rebuild, that you say it was junk?

What the next guy has to do is his problem. Im not selling it for less than what I paid for it.  Ill part it out if I have to.

Mine was cracked and had a cracked head. The guy I bought this one from also had a cracked block. I have had two of them one old and one brand new and both have been turkeys.   

[walkerj]

@walkerj,

Hmm something does not sound right, not sure what or where.

If you look at the Service Manual the main oil passage "vertical oil header" goes from the oil pump feed up to the plug "T" where the oil pressure switch connects, from there is feed the two left and right "longitudinal headers" there are plugs on the end of the headers at the heads that can be removed to check oil pressure/flow.

Maybe there is a blockage somewhere on the "vertical oil header" have you try removing the oil pump and try Roger's suggestion in shooting compressed air up that feed?

Removing the oil pressure switch could also be used to shoot compressed air and removing the plugs from either side of the heads can be a source for checking or testing as well.

Not sure if a scope camera can be used to inspect these header but something to give it a try if the tip of the camera fits inside.

The pressure gauge is in the port where the pressure sender threads in.  The vertical passage is spotless clean. I can see from top to bottom with the boroscope.  I can see all of the passages that branch off of it as well. They are all clear.   The vertical passage doesnt have a drop of oil in it.

 

[klinebau]

It seems that this person is having the same problem.

https://www.cadillacforums.com/threads/my-1957-coupe-deville-restoration.1134789/page-5?nested_view=1

[J. Gomez]

The pressure gauge is in the port where the pressure sender threads in.  The vertical passage is spotless clean. I can see from top to bottom with the boroscope.  I can see all of the passages that branch off of it as well. They are all clear.   The vertical passage doesnt have a drop of oil in it.

@walkerj,

So back to the oil pump and how you have it installed and the setup of your testing.

There is a thing gasket between the oil pump and the rear main, this gasket is required and from memory folks have had issues if the gasket was either not installed or too thick. Again from memory the issue was the oil pump was having issues building pressure (due to clearance and/or air leaking in between).

With your current setup do you have the oil pan in place (just temporary) fill with oil at least 4-5qt so the screen/strainer is fully submerged in oil?

Although you can feel the oil pump building pressure (with the drill or by hand) it may be picking air somehow not allowing pressure to build to pump the oil upwards.

Just a couple of thoughts..! Good luck

[Roger Zimmermann]

I'm not sure but it seems that the guy at the Cadillac forum is saying there is no seal between the oil pump strainer and the pump, but here is one: a felt seal. Without it, no oil pressure because the pump cannot suck the oil, but suck air instead.