Pre-war (up to 1942) LaSalle steering box

[z3skybolt]

I need to have the steering box on my 1940 LaSalle 5019 sedan rebuilt. Any advice on removal/reinstallation process?  I will send it away to be rebuilt but want to remove and replace it myself.

It seems that the box and steering must be properly aligned of course.  Not sure how to determine and accomplish that.

Thank you

Bob R.

[Classic]

Suggestion:  Carefully record and mark the location of the pitman arm on the pitman shaft.  Moving it just one tooth either way of correct location can cause a loose steering feel.  Also be sure not to change the length of the drag link for the same reason.
Don't know what rebuilder you are planning to use but recommend Lares Corp. in Cambridge, MN.  Paul Lares is the president and an antique are enthusiast and at one time (and maybe still does) own a classic Cadillac. Lares Corp. is also the rebuilder of many of the steering gears sold by the local parts stores (NAPA, O'Reillys, Advance, etc.).
https://www.larescorp.com/
Good Luck.
Gene

[Tom Boehm]

WOW big job. I did a nut and bolt restoration of my 1940 Lasalle chassis many years ago. Here are some things off the top of my head to remember.

* As long as you do not change the length of the tie rod, the front end alignment will not be affected. In other words, the tie rod could be removed without changing the alignment. 
* You will need to disconnect the transmission control rods from the steering column but the adjustment will not be affected if you don't change the length.
*Protect the interior paint on the steering column during removal.
*Like Gene said above, use a dremel tool to mark the pitman arm and the shaft on the steering box so the pitman arm goes back on the shaft the exact same way. You will need a puller tool to remove the pitman arm. You can do this with the whole assembly on or off the car.

****An important  thing to pay attention to is the center link tube. There are a lot of small pieces inside this tube. The end plug must be backed off so the ball on the pitman arm will release from the socket inside the tube. In the 1940 shop manual there is a picture of what is inside the tube and instructions on how to adjust the end plug. There is a better exploded view of what is inside in the parts book. I will get a copy of this page to you if you do not have a parts book. You do not have to disassemble the whole thing just to disconnect and reconnect the ball on the pitman arm. However, this would be a good time to rebuild this part. Take it off, take everything out of the inside, soak it all in parts cleaner, re grease it all and reassemble. Basically, there are springs inside that cushion the steering system. There are some very thin metal pieces inside that are fragile. I think they seal in the grease. If they aren't torn you can bend them back into shape. Some of mine were toast so I raided a parts car for these parts. That was an option back then. I have never seen these offered reproduction, new, or NOS.

I think the whole assembly can be removed underneath by dropping down and forward. Moving the tie rod and the centerlink tube out of the way by removal or turning the left front tire will help make room.

Let me know if you have more questions.

[Tom Boehm]

I did all this during restoration without a body on the chassis. Actually I am not sure if it would be better to remove it through the bottom or through the interior. I know it would be a lot easier with a helper to ease it in and out. If taking out through the bottom, it might be necessary to raise the car on jacks or a lift.

I'm starting to wonder if the pitman arm could be removed from the shaft without removing the ball end from the centerlink tube?  Therefore, you would not have to open the centerlink tube at all if you did not want to. The end of the pitman arm is a ball and socket that allows movement.

If you take it out through the bottom, then you might need to remove the shifter handle.

[LaSalle5019]

Just curious - Are you rebuilding it due because of too much slop in the steering, leaking too much or some other reason?

[z3skybolt]

5019

Moderate slop in the steering. 20 degrees stop to stop.  Up to 40 mph it is O.K.  At speeds above that, especially highway speeds of 50/55 mph it wanders a bit more than I am comfortable with.  As for leaking.  Yes a bit.  But I understand that they leaked on the showroom floor when new!

Beginning to think that I may need a professional to remove/install it after all. 

Bob R.

[Tom Boehm]

Hopefully Brad Ipsen will chime in or you can PM him. He has restored several 1939/1940 Cadillacs and Lasalles. I'm sure he has done this with the body on. Don't make a decision until you talk to him.

The wandering you mention could be caused by wear in the steering box. I think it could also be caused by broken springs inside the centerlink tube. When I took mine apart there was at least one broken spring. I think at least one was broken in the parts car too. There are two stiff springs on each side of the four ball and socket joints in the center link tube. Extreme wear on the socket parts inside the tube could cause play also. Renewing the innerds of the center link tube is not easy but it is a whole lot easier than removing the steering column. The only downside to going inside the center link tube is a parts car may be the only source of replacement parts.

What about tie rod ends and the idler arm bushing? What condition are they in? Wear in these parts could also cause wandering. Those parts are probably available from Kanter.

[z3skybolt]

What about tie rod ends and the idler arm bushing? What condition are they in? Wear in these parts could also cause wandering. Those parts are probably available from Kanter.

Tom,

The tie rods, idler arm and all steering components are in excellent condition. Alignment is excellent. The car will track straight ahead solidly without input on straight stretches of road.

Your comments and those of others have convinced me not to tackle this job.  I am friends with an "old time" mechanic who has done much work on both of the LaSalle which I have owned.

Thanks so much to you and those whose input I value.


Bob R.

[Tom Boehm]

Hello Bob, when this job finished, post and let us know how it turned out. Did the rebuild solve the problem?

When I was restoring the chassis on my car I never gave it a thought to have the steering box rebuilt. I still don't have fenders on my car so I could still do it. However, I still don't want to remove the steering column to do it.

The only complaint I have is the steering box leaks. I am happy with the steering feel on my car.

[LaSalle5019]

5019

Moderate slop in the steering. 20 degrees stop to stop.  Up to 40 mph it is O.K.  At speeds above that, especially highway speeds of 50/55 mph it wanders a bit more than I am comfortable with.  As for leaking.  Yes a bit.  But I understand that they leaked on the showroom floor when new!

Beginning to think that I may need a professional to remove/install it after all. 

Bob R.

Got it. Mine drips a bit when sitting even with the 1200wt steering box semi-fluid lube I put in it. I assume you already tried tightening up the two gearbox lash adjustments?
Scott

[Brad Ipsen CLC #737]

You should verify that the slop is in the steering gear before you take things apart.  If the front suspension has not been done most likely there will be a little wear in all of the parts so just doing the steering gearbox will not necessarily fix it.  Contrary to what Tom thought I have never done a steering box removal from a complete car.  All have been done in conjunction with total restorations, but I think they can be removed with the car completely intact.  To send the gearbox out for rebuild it will have to be stripped of all of the attached parts.  The column cannot be separated from the gearbox so you should take off the steering wheel, shifting mechanism and hub while still in the car.  I think it can then be removed from the bottom of the car and maybe even from the top.  Lares has rebuilt these, and I have never heard anything bad about their work.  Not sure how they go about doing this.  One big problem is the pot metal eccentric sleeve in these.  Maybe 50% of these sleeves are destroyed in getting them out.  The pot metal expands with age locking them in.  As can be imagined this also makes them impossible to adjust.  Maybe Lares is making a new piece from aluminum to replace this.  I do have some parts for these but unless you have a complete second spare to get parts from, I would have Lares do this.  For the front suspension in general, I have most anything including the connecting link to the tie rods.  I have all of the cups and springs in it.  Have much of this in perfect condition.  One other comment, from memory I believe the pitman arm can only go on one way, but it never hurts to mark it just in case.  The spline has a blank in it to key its orientation.       

[Tom Boehm]

Hello Brad, are any parts in the centerlink tube available new, reproduction, or NOS? Are the only sources of these parts a parts car or you?

[Brad Ipsen CLC #737]

I think the cups may be available new someplace, but I don't know where.  Maybe Kanter.  Usually only a couple wear and the rest in the assembly are fine.  So, in dismantling parts cars I end up with many good ones plus springs and dirt shields etc.  If anyone needs them I have them and easy to ship and cheap.