1960s Steel wheels & lug nuts - 68 Coupe DeVille

[TJ Hopland]

On the safety rim thing I'm amazed at how much talk and photos there are on the subject but so far all the pics look the same to me.   What I'm surmising is we are talking about making sure there is a decent sized horizontal area directly below the tires bead?   Earlier designs there could have been a gap there so totally dependent on air pressure to keep the vertical surfaces together?

I would imagine this change also helped or was helped with disc brakes?  Still need the drop center to make it reasonable to mount them but that could be in the center where it was out of the way of a caliper?

[Cadman-iac]

  If you want to know if your wheels have that safety ridge or bead,  (or whatever the technical name is), just run your fingers over the inner and outer lips of the wheel and if it's got them you'll feel them as a small indentation or "groove" about an inch inside the edges. If the tire is removed, then it'll be a bump an inch from each edge on the tire's side of the wheel.
 It's meant to give the tire bead a little bit of resistance to coming back off if you lose pressure.

If you've ever messed with a 16.5" truck wheel, those are a perfect example of a wheel without the safety ridges. If you are running these wheels and have a nail or lose pressure for whatever reason, it's almost guaranteed that the tire beads will come away from the wheel edges, and most likely come right off the wheel. The only advantage to these is that it's super easy to get a new tire on it, you don't really need a tire machine to do it.
On other "half sized" wheels, like the 19.5, and the 22.5's, I don't know if those were made with the safety beads or not. I have a couple sets of the 19.5's, but haven't ever used them before, so I never paid attention to what they look like.
I can take a picture of what Bruce has mentioned a little later today when I get home.

  Rick

[TJ Hopland]

Was that maybe a thing on those half sizes because they tended to be stiffer heavy duty tires to begin with so they figured you would need every advantage to be able to mount them?   I have a trailer with 14.5's and if they loose pressure they are darn near impossible to get seated again.  The sidewalls are so stiff usual things like a winch strap don't work.  Ya need a bead blaster or some boom boom.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I questioned the dealer when buying our initial set of vehicles with 16.5" tyres, and was told that these sizes were made for heavy vehicles and the extra .5" made sure that people couldn't use these tyres on "normal" passenger vehicles.

Bruce.

[Cadman-iac]

I questioned the dealer when buying our initial set of vehicles with 16.5" tyres, and was told that these sizes were made for heavy vehicles and the extra .5" made sure that people couldn't use these tyres on "normal" passenger vehicles.

Bruce.

 I believe that to be true too, I've heard that same thing from others through the years.

 The wheels are definitely heavier, and I was wrong about them not having the safety ridges, at least on some anyway.
 I have probably 8 of them left, but only half have the ridges, the other half are smooth.
 This is a 16.5 without the ridges.



  TJ,
 When working with an old tire that's stiff, the "boom boom" is almost the only thing that will get one to seat the beads.
 I'm guessing that you are referring to starting fluid or something else flammable sprayed into the tire and lit.


 The 17.5, and 19.5 wheels I have do not have the ridges either.

 I have a few mid 60's Cadillac wheels that have just a ridge on the outside, nothing on the inside. Not sure why they did just the one.
 Here's a picture of it. I used the background to highlight the contour of the wheel, but the light was not optimal.



  This is a 70's Cadillac wheel. I'm pointing out the ridges.



 Rick

[chrisbutnut]

Chris,

  Where are you located?
  If I remember correctly, the 68 models were the first to have disc brakes, but I'm not sure if that was standard equipment for all or an option like it was for Chevrolet.
I know that the 69 model it was standard for all.

Along that line of thought, if it was an option, I'm wondering if those that still had drum brakes received the old-style drum wheels, or if all cars got the new wheels.
So I need to ask, does your car have drum or disc brakes?

If it has drums, you have a much larger range of years to get your wheels from.

Disc brake wheels will fit over drum brakes without a problem, however, drum brake wheels will not fit over disc brakes.

 I have a few sets, but I'm not sure of their condition. I picked through my collection to find 2 sets for my car trailer when the chrome wheels that were on it began to peel. One set on the ground and the other as spares. I went with the Cadillac wheels because I had 2 matching sets of hubcaps and they looked better than the chrome wheels did.

Good luck with finding a set, I hope this helps you narrow down your search some.

  Rick

I'm in Portland, Oregon.  My car has discs on the front, and drums on the back. 

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I believe that to be true too, I've heard that same thing from others through the years.

I have a few mid 60's Cadillac wheels that have just a ridge on the outside, nothing on the inside. Not sure why they did just the one.      Rick   

Rick,

The Factory only did what they had to do by law.   The initial Regulations only called for the outer bead, then a few years later, both inside and outside ones were mandated.   They are not going to spend money when they don't have to.

Bruce.

[Cadman-iac]

I'm in Portland, Oregon.  My car has discs on the front, and drums on the back. 

 You'll have to narrow down your search some then. If you were closer you could get some from me, but the freight would be outrageous.
  I would think that there's a salvage yard near you that would have some yet.
 It would be nice if they would spin them to check the runout on them before you buy them.
  I don't have any way to spin one for runout except by mounting it on the rear axle and putting the vehicle in gear. I do have a tire machine which is handy.

 I wish you the best in finding a set.

  Rick

[Cadman-iac]

Rick,

The Factory only did what they had to do by law.   The initial Regulations only called for the outer bead, then a few years later, both inside and outside ones were mandated.   They are not going to spend money when they don't have to.

Bruce.

 Good point!!

[TJ Hopland]

Finally we got some good pics and I can see what this safety thing is all about...  cool...

So now we know that aspect isn't a direct factor for fit on the car or hubcap but could be an indirect issue since it seemed to be getting popular when discs got popular so would have forced the makers to do some design changes and if you are being forced to a new design why not change more stuff while you are at it.

I think we are pretty sure fitting on the car isn't going to be an issue for 70's-90's wheels so its just the hubcap.   Got a spare hubcap?  Do we know if there are any differences in those bead grip style caps?   IF I have say a 78 Eldo cap and a 92 pickup would a test fit there say that his 68 should also fit 92 pickup wheels?   78 Eldo I think is as late as they used that design?  Or if you got any of the 'tin' caps in the 70's did you still get that design?  ANd it was when the wire caps that started gripping further in?

I do have a 78 Eldo cap laying around but don't know for sure that I can easily lay my hands on a 92 pickup so at least for me its just an example of how we could maybe figure this out. 

[Cadman-iac]

  TJ,

 Here's a 72 Eldorado wheel. It doesn't have the safety ridges on it.
 I'm not sure if it's a 72 wheel or not, but it came with the car.



 I don't believe Chevrolet ever used wheels with the wider outer lip for the edge-grip hubcaps. The trucks rarely got a full size hubcap anyway, and from what I remember of the ones I've had before, they gripped the wheel under the tire bead area leaving a bit of the wheel's outer edge visible.
 The Cadillac caps covered everything except for the very edge of the lip, so you really couldn't see the wheel.

 I'll try to remember to get a picture of one of mine to show what I mean.

 Rick
 

[TJ Hopland]

In that Eldo wheel photo it kinda looks like there is a ridge on the right side in the photo.  Or is that just something I'm seeing in the photo that isn't there?

In the case of the trucks I'm thinking their style for several decades was some sort of center cap that just covered the nuts and if you got the extra fancy package I think they called it a beauty ring that just covered the bead area which would include the weights.  The 70's ones I remember and the 90's I actually still have do cover pretty much right to the tire but grip further in where the typical caps grip.

I want to say there were periods where other brands and cars did that too, think of around 1970 Chev like a Cheville or Vette.  The GM trucks just held onto that style for much longer.  I have not looked but that may still be the style if you get the super rare steel wheel option.     

[TJ Hopland]

Hmmm.... this now has me questioning my memory.  This sure looks like its gripping the same as what we are talking about.  IF that is the case that may be good news since those wheels are readily available new.

[Cadman-iac]

In that Eldo wheel photo it kinda looks like there is a ridge on the right side in the photo.  Or is that just something I'm seeing in the photo that isn't there?

In the case of the trucks I'm thinking their style for several decades was some sort of center cap that just covered the nuts and if you got the extra fancy package I think they called it a beauty ring that just covered the bead area which would include the weights.  The 70's ones I remember and the 90's I actually still have do cover pretty much right to the tire but grip further in where the typical caps grip.

I want to say there were periods where other brands and cars did that too, think of around 1970 Chev like a Cheville or Vette.  The GM trucks just held onto that style for much longer.  I have not looked but that may still be the style if you get the super rare steel wheel option.   

I think you're seeing things that aren't there. I took a couple more pictures of it with better lighting and a piece of cardboard behind it so it shows up better after I made sure you actually weren't seeing something I missed.







Rick

[colorado4x4]

There is a boneyard here in the colorado front range that I frequent that has a number of late 60's to mid 70's Cadillacs. Lots of wheels still on these cars, grey and black.

[Cadman-iac]

Hmmm.... this now has me questioning my memory.  This sure looks like its gripping the same as what we are talking about.  IF that is the case that may be good news since those wheels are readily available new.

As for these, if you look closely at the trim ring, you can see the "fingers" are not near the outer edge but farther inboard of it.

These are the same wheels and rings that are on my wife's Corvette. I replaced all the wheels because they were out of round from many years of being put on old-style tire machines.

Here's a closeup of the old ones since I've still got them.







As for the truck wheels and trim rings, here's what I've got on the half-ton Suburban.



This is an old one I've replaced but kept. Note where the fingers are.




Here's a shot of my small wheel collection. This is just what's loose, the rest are keeping vehicles out of the dirt.

[TJ Hopland]

On those closer eldo pics I can now see that its just a combination of that rust line and lighting that looked like a ridge.