1950s 1956 front turn indicator lamps, exhaust noise

[Roger Zimmermann]

Yesterday was the first drive of the year with my '56 Biarritz. Next to another annoying issue (I may come later with it), I noticed that, when using the RH indicator lights, the front LH lamp blinked too, but not the rear one.
When using the LH turn signal lamps, the respective lamps went on as usual.
I thought at as bad ground, but it makes no sense as the wiring for the front indicator lamps are separated. Could the turn signal swith have a problem? I have no schematic how it's connected internally and I would avoid to remove the steering wheel if the issue is somewhere else.
Any idea?

Something completely different: last year, I installed the intake manifold gaskets closing the exhaust passage under the carb. When I'm driving with open window, it seems to me that the exhaust noise is now different, more like a 4 cylinder car. What is your experience?

[J. Gomez]

Yesterday was the first drive of the year with my '56 Biarritz. Next to another annoying issue (I may come later with it), I noticed that, when using the RH indicator lights, the front LH lamp blinked too, but not the rear one.
When using the LH turn signal lamps, the respective lamps went on as usual.
I thought at as bad ground, but it makes no sense as the wiring for the front indicator lamps are separated. Could the turn signal swith have a problem? I have no schematic how it's connected internally and I would avoid to remove the steering wheel if the issue is somewhere else.
Any idea?
 

@Roger,

Not sure if you had a chance to view the tech tip documents I posted last month here -> https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/index.php?topic=176729.0

I have a few diagrams embedded on the document high lining the front/dash instrument panel path when the turn signal in operating. I've also have a one file with all the wiring layouts for other circuits 6-way seats, trunk pull down, etc. just ping me via PM if you need a copy.

One question, are both dash/instrument panel turn signal indicators also flashing when your turn signal switch is place on the RH side?

Most likely your issue may be a lose/bad ground or one of the bulbs are the wrong type, possible either the RH or LH dash indicators or the LH front bulb.

When the RH is flashing is the front LH bright same intensity as the RH bulb?

The LH may be bleeding through the RH path picking up flashing via the dash/instrument panel bulb filaments and it will be a bit dimmed.

Hope this may help you. 

[Roger Zimmermann]

Ah, Jose, your nice work! I remember seeing it, but as I have no intention to convert some bulbs with LED ones, I did not pay too much attention!
The car is restores since a long time; last year I had no issue with the lamps and did not replace one.
I'm almost sure that only one pilot lamp is flashing for each activated side; I'll have to check it. It's also hard to say if the light intensity was the same LH and RH. I just remember that, when the car was restored, I added a ground wire at each side because the paint was too thick. I will have to check it.
Anyway, thanks for your comments and remembering your tech tip.

[J. Gomez]

Ah, Jose, your nice work! I remember seeing it, but as I have no intention to convert some bulbs with LED ones, I did not pay too much attention!
The car is restores since a long time; last year I had no issue with the lamps and did not replace one.
I'm almost sure that only one pilot lamp is flashing for each activated side; I'll have to check it. It's also hard to say if the light intensity was the same LH and RH. I just remember that, when the car was restored, I added a ground wire at each side because the paint was too thick. I will have to check it.
Anyway, thanks for your comments and remembering your tech tip.

@Roger,

No problem thanks!

Yes, that layout on the Cadillac the way they wired the front turn signal around the dash/instrument panel is a brain puzzle if one is trying to troubleshoot them. It took me a while drawing in a scratch piece of paper while tracing the wiring diagram and checking the turn signal path.   

Hope you can resolve your problem.   

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

I had similar issues with our 55. After a lot of head scratching, I determined it was corrosion in the bulb sockets.
Corrosion in the rear bulbs allowed just a bit of current to trickle between the terminals so when I hit the brake, I got a faint glow from the front parking lights and the signals had a bit of a cross connection too.
I cleaned the sockets out with scotchbrite and all work as they should.

[Roger Zimmermann]

To tell the truth, I'm still scratching my head. Yesterday, I took apart the RH fog lamp to check for a bad ground. All is looking like new. I checked the turn indicator with a remote ground wire, it was functioning as intended. Reassembled the lamp, put it again into the bumper. By testing, I had the same issue!
Took both front fog lamps at home to measure the resistance of each bulb. I got following data:

RH: turn signal: 0.8 Ohm; fog: 0.7 Ohm
LH: turn signal: 1.4 Ohm, fog: 0.6 Ohm

As those values are for a cold filament (or bulb), I cannot calculate the Watt value. (cp is an archaic value, telling nothing electrically). There is a notable difference between the RH and LH resistance value for the turn indicators; don't know if this has an influence. I still have two NOS bulbs from which I could check the resistance, but they are in my store room.

Yesterday, I noticed another strange behavior: trying to activate the LH turn indicators, there was...nothing. With a new tentative, the LH turn indicators worked as intended.
I also noticed that when the fog lamps are activated, I have no turn signal...
I slowly fear that I'm good to remove the steering wheel...

Jose, what do you think?

[J. Gomez]

@Roger,

To tell the truth, I'm still scratching my head. Yesterday, I took apart the RH fog lamp to check for a bad ground. All is looking like new. I checked the turn indicator with a remote ground wire, it was functioning as intended. Reassembled the lamp, put it again into the bumper. By testing, I had the same issue!
Took both front fog lamps at home to measure the resistance of each bulb. I got following data:

RH: turn signal: 0.8 Ohm; fog: 0.7 Ohm
LH: turn signal: 1.4 Ohm, fog: 0.6 Ohm

As those values are for a cold filament (or bulb), I cannot calculate the Watt value. (cp is an archaic value, telling nothing electrically). There is a notable difference between the RH and LH resistance value for the turn indicators; don't know if this has an influence. I still have two NOS bulbs from which I could check the resistance, but they are in my store room.

Although the resistance for the signal side on these bulbs are a bit different they should be ok to function as intended. Taking off the meter wires resistance of about 0.2 Ohms (give or take) still fine as they are as long as your thermostatic flasher can handle a higher resistance.

One quick check is to reverse the bulbs and see if the issue from the RH over to the LH.
 
In looking at your pictures all seems normal "HOWEVER" the extra ground wire you have at the aim adjustment bolt may not be making a good ground up to the sockets, especially the RP11 socket.   

I wire an extra ground on the mounting stud screw for the driving light bulb and solder the end at the 1044 bulb socket and then extend the ground up the hardness over to the same mounting screw on top of the radiator support same one screw as the headlight ground is attach (picture is how this was wire on one of my spare units).

Yesterday, I noticed another strange behavior: trying to activate the LH turn indicators, there was...nothing. With a new tentative, the LH turn indicators worked as intended.
I also noticed that when the fog lamps are activated, I have no turn signal...
I slowly fear that I'm good to remove the steering wheel...

These two symptoms I'm more inclined to guess you may not have a good ground at the 1044 socket, if you have a fog lights on (total different wiring to them) and you lose the turn signal somehow the fog lights maybe taking the weak ground and you lose if for the other side of the filament (turn signal side)

If you have everything back in the car without the lens you can clip a good ground source on the 1044 sockets and see if you issue goes away. I'm not a betting man but I'll bet 10 you will with the ground clip.   

Good luck..!

[Roger Zimmermann]

Jose, thanks for your comments! I will add that ground cable as illustrated in your picture. Just as a reminder: the car's restoration was finished in 2001, the last government verification was in 2019 and at that time, the turn indicators lamps were functionning as intended. However, I don't know when the issue began as I can rarely see what the front indicators are doing! It was more or less by accident that I noticed it last week.
somebody more clever than me said: most electrical issues are related to a bad ground!
The idea to switch the 1044 bulbs does not please me: those bulbs are so difficult to  R & R. I did years ago a tool to push the pins, releasing the pressure at the bulbs; I will have to search that tool...

[J. Gomez]

Jose, thanks for your comments! I will add that ground cable as illustrated in your picture. Just as a reminder: the car's restoration was finished in 2001, the last government verification was in 2019 and at that time, the turn indicators lamps were functionning as intended. However, I don't know when the issue began as I can rarely see what the front indicators are doing! It was more or less by accident that I noticed it last week.
somebody more clever than me said: most electrical issues are related to a bad ground!
The idea to switch the 1044 bulbs does not please me: those bulbs are so difficult to  R & R. I did years ago a tool to push the pins, releasing the pressure at the bulbs; I will have to search that tool...

Roger,

I totally agree they are a pain to install and they also very fragile if those are the old OEM ones, the glass globe tend to loosen from the base if you twist them too hard.

Fingers cross you get to resolve your issue.   

[Lexi]

They are a pain to remove. Wear thick gloves in case the glass breaks. I am in the process of swapping out my front bumper and I noted that the turn signals and fog lights began working oddly. Did some preliminary tests and seems to be bad grounds due to the bumper removal process. Clay/Lexi

[J. Gomez]

They are a pain to remove. Wear thick gloves in case the glass breaks. I am in the process of swapping out my front bumper and I noted that the turn signals and fog lights began working oddly. Did some preliminary tests and seems to be bad grounds due to the bumper removal process. Clay/Lexi

Clay,

It seems you also got caught with the "Ground gremlin" bug. 

When I did both of my front and tail lights (especially the one for the gas filler tube) I did not trust having the floating metal housing for these providing a good solid ground for the lights, so I added a separate ground wire to each socket mount run it through the same hardness and extended to a chassis/metal source just in case.

Like the old saying "work smarter not harder..!" best to do it when the housings are off the car then go back and redo everything over.   

[Lexi]

Yes I did Jose, but I think I scared them off. I ran a jumper ground/alligator clip from the turn signal bucket to a ground on the car when the front bumper was removed. Both then worked properly when tested like this. I finished installing my re-chromed front bumper today, and made sure everything was clean. Turn signals, parking lights and fog lights back to normal operation. Yes, I thought of adding additional grounds as someone once said you can never have too many, but ran out of time . Clay/Lexi

[Roger Zimmermann]

Lot of work, but no result. As recommended by Jose, I added a ground wire (see picture);



When one assembly was done, I checked the electrical resistance. It was one Ohm less on the RH assembly for the turn indicator and fog bulb. When I checked the LH assembly, I had strange result for one element.
Years ago, I did a tool to push the pins to facilitate the R&R 1044 bulb. As I did not find it, I did something else for the same purpose. Removed the bulb and one contact in the socket was black. AH! that must be the gremlin! Cleaned the contact and reassembled the bulb. The resistance values were the same as the RH side.
This afternoon, I went to the garage to install the assemblies.
All that for nothing: by using the RH blinker, the LK is blinking too. When the fog lamps are on, no blinker.
Then, I disconnect the RH wire for the fog lamp: all is working as intended with, of course, no fog lamp on the RH side. By connecting the RH fog lamp and disconnecting the LH one, there was no blinker and the green indicators were on when the fog lamp was activated. Without for lamp on, the RH and LH blinkers were on for a RH activation.
To tell the truth, I have enough: the fog lamps are now disconnected, and basta.
If I have nothing else to do after the driving season, I will check the turn indicator switch, and check the ground at the rear lamps.

[J. Gomez]

Roger,

Sorry to hear you still having issues.

I know trouble shooting electrical problems can be extremely frustrated must of the times, one can try 100 different solution and can get it on the first one but other times it may take all the way to 100 to get it resolved.

I have my share of electrical problems and had learned and used multiple languages colorful words while trouble shooting them.   

While reading your post it seems the issue is "only" present when you have both fog lights connected and when you remove both the wires (purple/violet) wires everything works as designed. Since the 1044 bulb is shared with a common ground between the fog and turn signal filaments and the circuits for these are independent from each other, something may be feeding back over to the purple/violet wire(s).     

If you disconnected these wires at the main connector (on top of the radiator support) and you have a test probe light (or maybe rig one with a spare 1073 or similar bulb) and connect one side to ground and the other to the purple/violet wire at the hardness going to the lamp. If the test probe flashes somehow on either side or you get the same issues as before then something is wrong on that side. If however everything works normal with the turn signal lights when you have the probe light connect to either side, then that side is ok.

You can also try connecting a clip wire to a +12V source at the same connector to either side on the fog lights hardness and check if you get the same issues with the turn signal. If you get the same issue that maybe and indicator the 1044 bulb(s) or the terminal where they make at the sockets could be crossing each other.     

[Roger Zimmermann]

Jose, thanks for your suggestions. That's something I can do but don't have too much hope. It could be something stupid which happened over the time as when the car was restored, I checked the lights. That's the reason why I added the ground wires at the adjusting bolt because something was not right. Since that time, I never touched the 1044 bulbs, therefore there cannot be something crossed here. However, who knows...

[Roger Zimmermann]

Most probably I found the fault. By following the hint from Jose, when using the RH directional signal, a test lamp connected to the fog wire blinked too. On the LH, the test lamp gave no light. By checking the resistance between fog  and directional wires at the main connector, I got some value at the LH side, and on the RH side, there is a short. Don't ask why I did not those tests first!
I'm good to remove the RH pod and do a serious check at the wiring.

[J. Gomez]

Most probably I found the fault. By following the hint from Jose, when using the RH directional signal, a test lamp connected to the fog wire blinked too. On the LH, the test lamp gave no light. By checking the resistance between fog  and directional wires at the main connector, I got some value at the LH side, and on the RH side, there is a short. Don't ask why I did not those tests first!
I'm good to remove the RH pod and do a serious check at the wiring.

Roger,

Glad to hear you are making good progress with your electrical issue, just small steps to reach the final goal.

Good luck.

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

Most probably I found the fault. By following the hint from Jose, when using the RH directional signal, a test lamp connected to the fog wire blinked too. On the LH, the test lamp gave no light. By checking the resistance between fog  and directional wires at the main connector, I got some value at the LH side, and on the RH side, there is a short. Don't ask why I did not those tests first!
I'm good to remove the RH pod and do a serious check at the wiring.

That's very similar to what I had. It was corrosion in the bulb sockets, and on the base of the bulbs themselves. The corrosion allowed a path for just a bit of current to flow from 1 post to the other. I dont have fog lamps, but in my case it backfed from the rear parking lights to the brake light post and I noticed a faint glow in the front signal light bulb when the parking lights were on.  Would not have found it if I wasn't looking in a dark garage.
Clean all the sockets and push the wire ends thru the back and clean them too.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Most probably I found the issue. I removed the pod from the car, took it home; I still had a short(or continuity) by connecting an Ohmmeter between the violet and blue wires. Was the short at the wiring or at the bulb? Removed the bulb and rechecked the resistance between both wire: it was now open, as it should. The resistance between both poles from the bulb was correct. By looking at those poles, I saw that one was marked just on the side. Most probably the contact into the socket was pushed and contacted the second one after some years.
After building a better tool to insert the bulb, I reassembled it, just to see that now there was some resistance value between both wires.
I'm attaching a picture from the tool; the bores at the soldered rods engage into the pins, allowing to control better the installation of the bulb.
Jose mentioned that this issue may be what I experienced; at first I did not think he was right...but I was wrong! Thanks Jose!

[Lexi]

One Cadillac God disagreeing with another? Scandalous! Clay/Lexi