1950s 1956 front turn indicator lamps, exhaust noise

[Roger Zimmermann]

Yesterday was the first drive of the year with my '56 Biarritz. Next to another annoying issue (I may come later with it), I noticed that, when using the RH indicator lights, the front LH lamp blinked too, but not the rear one.
When using the LH turn signal lamps, the respective lamps went on as usual.
I thought at as bad ground, but it makes no sense as the wiring for the front indicator lamps are separated. Could the turn signal swith have a problem? I have no schematic how it's connected internally and I would avoid to remove the steering wheel if the issue is somewhere else.
Any idea?

Something completely different: last year, I installed the intake manifold gaskets closing the exhaust passage under the carb. When I'm driving with open window, it seems to me that the exhaust noise is now different, more like a 4 cylinder car. What is your experience?

[J. Gomez]

Yesterday was the first drive of the year with my '56 Biarritz. Next to another annoying issue (I may come later with it), I noticed that, when using the RH indicator lights, the front LH lamp blinked too, but not the rear one.
When using the LH turn signal lamps, the respective lamps went on as usual.
I thought at as bad ground, but it makes no sense as the wiring for the front indicator lamps are separated. Could the turn signal swith have a problem? I have no schematic how it's connected internally and I would avoid to remove the steering wheel if the issue is somewhere else.
Any idea?
 

@Roger,

Not sure if you had a chance to view the tech tip documents I posted last month here -> https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/index.php?topic=176729.0

I have a few diagrams embedded on the document high lining the front/dash instrument panel path when the turn signal in operating. I've also have a one file with all the wiring layouts for other circuits 6-way seats, trunk pull down, etc. just ping me via PM if you need a copy.

One question, are both dash/instrument panel turn signal indicators also flashing when your turn signal switch is place on the RH side?

Most likely your issue may be a lose/bad ground or one of the bulbs are the wrong type, possible either the RH or LH dash indicators or the LH front bulb.

When the RH is flashing is the front LH bright same intensity as the RH bulb?

The LH may be bleeding through the RH path picking up flashing via the dash/instrument panel bulb filaments and it will be a bit dimmed.

Hope this may help you. 

[Roger Zimmermann]

Ah, Jose, your nice work! I remember seeing it, but as I have no intention to convert some bulbs with LED ones, I did not pay too much attention!
The car is restores since a long time; last year I had no issue with the lamps and did not replace one.
I'm almost sure that only one pilot lamp is flashing for each activated side; I'll have to check it. It's also hard to say if the light intensity was the same LH and RH. I just remember that, when the car was restored, I added a ground wire at each side because the paint was too thick. I will have to check it.
Anyway, thanks for your comments and remembering your tech tip.

[J. Gomez]

Ah, Jose, your nice work! I remember seeing it, but as I have no intention to convert some bulbs with LED ones, I did not pay too much attention!
The car is restores since a long time; last year I had no issue with the lamps and did not replace one.
I'm almost sure that only one pilot lamp is flashing for each activated side; I'll have to check it. It's also hard to say if the light intensity was the same LH and RH. I just remember that, when the car was restored, I added a ground wire at each side because the paint was too thick. I will have to check it.
Anyway, thanks for your comments and remembering your tech tip.

@Roger,

No problem thanks!

Yes, that layout on the Cadillac the way they wired the front turn signal around the dash/instrument panel is a brain puzzle if one is trying to troubleshoot them. It took me a while drawing in a scratch piece of paper while tracing the wiring diagram and checking the turn signal path.   

Hope you can resolve your problem.   

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

I had similar issues with our 55. After a lot of head scratching, I determined it was corrosion in the bulb sockets.
Corrosion in the rear bulbs allowed just a bit of current to trickle between the terminals so when I hit the brake, I got a faint glow from the front parking lights and the signals had a bit of a cross connection too.
I cleaned the sockets out with scotchbrite and all work as they should.

[Roger Zimmermann]

To tell the truth, I'm still scratching my head. Yesterday, I took apart the RH fog lamp to check for a bad ground. All is looking like new. I checked the turn indicator with a remote ground wire, it was functioning as intended. Reassembled the lamp, put it again into the bumper. By testing, I had the same issue!
Took both front fog lamps at home to measure the resistance of each bulb. I got following data:

RH: turn signal: 0.8 Ohm; fog: 0.7 Ohm
LH: turn signal: 1.4 Ohm, fog: 0.6 Ohm

As those values are for a cold filament (or bulb), I cannot calculate the Watt value. (cp is an archaic value, telling nothing electrically). There is a notable difference between the RH and LH resistance value for the turn indicators; don't know if this has an influence. I still have two NOS bulbs from which I could check the resistance, but they are in my store room.

Yesterday, I noticed another strange behavior: trying to activate the LH turn indicators, there was...nothing. With a new tentative, the LH turn indicators worked as intended.
I also noticed that when the fog lamps are activated, I have no turn signal...
I slowly fear that I'm good to remove the steering wheel...

Jose, what do you think?

[J. Gomez]

@Roger,

To tell the truth, I'm still scratching my head. Yesterday, I took apart the RH fog lamp to check for a bad ground. All is looking like new. I checked the turn indicator with a remote ground wire, it was functioning as intended. Reassembled the lamp, put it again into the bumper. By testing, I had the same issue!
Took both front fog lamps at home to measure the resistance of each bulb. I got following data:

RH: turn signal: 0.8 Ohm; fog: 0.7 Ohm
LH: turn signal: 1.4 Ohm, fog: 0.6 Ohm

As those values are for a cold filament (or bulb), I cannot calculate the Watt value. (cp is an archaic value, telling nothing electrically). There is a notable difference between the RH and LH resistance value for the turn indicators; don't know if this has an influence. I still have two NOS bulbs from which I could check the resistance, but they are in my store room.

Although the resistance for the signal side on these bulbs are a bit different they should be ok to function as intended. Taking off the meter wires resistance of about 0.2 Ohms (give or take) still fine as they are as long as your thermostatic flasher can handle a higher resistance.

One quick check is to reverse the bulbs and see if the issue from the RH over to the LH.
 
In looking at your pictures all seems normal "HOWEVER" the extra ground wire you have at the aim adjustment bolt may not be making a good ground up to the sockets, especially the RP11 socket.   

I wire an extra ground on the mounting stud screw for the driving light bulb and solder the end at the 1044 bulb socket and then extend the ground up the hardness over to the same mounting screw on top of the radiator support same one screw as the headlight ground is attach (picture is how this was wire on one of my spare units).

Yesterday, I noticed another strange behavior: trying to activate the LH turn indicators, there was...nothing. With a new tentative, the LH turn indicators worked as intended.
I also noticed that when the fog lamps are activated, I have no turn signal...
I slowly fear that I'm good to remove the steering wheel...

These two symptoms I'm more inclined to guess you may not have a good ground at the 1044 socket, if you have a fog lights on (total different wiring to them) and you lose the turn signal somehow the fog lights maybe taking the weak ground and you lose if for the other side of the filament (turn signal side)

If you have everything back in the car without the lens you can clip a good ground source on the 1044 sockets and see if you issue goes away. I'm not a betting man but I'll bet 10 you will with the ground clip.   

Good luck..!

[Roger Zimmermann]

Jose, thanks for your comments! I will add that ground cable as illustrated in your picture. Just as a reminder: the car's restoration was finished in 2001, the last government verification was in 2019 and at that time, the turn indicators lamps were functionning as intended. However, I don't know when the issue began as I can rarely see what the front indicators are doing! It was more or less by accident that I noticed it last week.
somebody more clever than me said: most electrical issues are related to a bad ground!
The idea to switch the 1044 bulbs does not please me: those bulbs are so difficult to  R & R. I did years ago a tool to push the pins, releasing the pressure at the bulbs; I will have to search that tool...

[J. Gomez]

Jose, thanks for your comments! I will add that ground cable as illustrated in your picture. Just as a reminder: the car's restoration was finished in 2001, the last government verification was in 2019 and at that time, the turn indicators lamps were functionning as intended. However, I don't know when the issue began as I can rarely see what the front indicators are doing! It was more or less by accident that I noticed it last week.
somebody more clever than me said: most electrical issues are related to a bad ground!
The idea to switch the 1044 bulbs does not please me: those bulbs are so difficult to  R & R. I did years ago a tool to push the pins, releasing the pressure at the bulbs; I will have to search that tool...

Roger,

I totally agree they are a pain to install and they also very fragile if those are the old OEM ones, the glass globe tend to loosen from the base if you twist them too hard.

Fingers cross you get to resolve your issue.   

[Lexi]

They are a pain to remove. Wear thick gloves in case the glass breaks. I am in the process of swapping out my front bumper and I noted that the turn signals and fog lights began working oddly. Did some preliminary tests and seems to be bad grounds due to the bumper removal process. Clay/Lexi

[J. Gomez]

They are a pain to remove. Wear thick gloves in case the glass breaks. I am in the process of swapping out my front bumper and I noted that the turn signals and fog lights began working oddly. Did some preliminary tests and seems to be bad grounds due to the bumper removal process. Clay/Lexi

Clay,

It seems you also got caught with the "Ground gremlin" bug. 

When I did both of my front and tail lights (especially the one for the gas filler tube) I did not trust having the floating metal housing for these providing a good solid ground for the lights, so I added a separate ground wire to each socket mount run it through the same hardness and extended to a chassis/metal source just in case.

Like the old saying "work smarter not harder..!" best to do it when the housings are off the car then go back and redo everything over.