Looks like the Celestiq is finally here

[TJ Hopland]

I didn't remember that we ever talked about this car but a quick search looks like we did, there is at least 4 threads spread over between 2020 and 2023.  Doesn't look like much if anything was said here in 24 but last month all the reviews came out and I have finally had some time to look at a few of them.   

Anyone that has been following this thing care to fill in those of us that haven't how close this came out to what they were talking about over the last 4+ years?

I don't remember what I said or thought before and I'm still not sure what to think.  Even at $350k seems like they may be loosing money on the project.  Is this really a test for a bunch of new tech?   Doesn't seem like there is anything to really learn about manufacturing since this isn't any sort of mass produced model.     

[Clewisiii]

To me Cadillac has not had an aspirational car in a long time. A car that is out of near everyones price range. But people who like to at least be in the same automotive family can buy a lower model and be happy about their purchase.

Mercedes has the Maybach. And if you cannot buy that maybe an S class or C class.

I was speaking with GM managment years ago and told them they should not think of this as a car to make money on. But instead it is a marketing vehicle to interest people in the other cars.

[James Landi]

Carl is correct. The extraordinary out of "reach" price for this halo car, its limited production rarity/scarcity value
, and uncompromising effort to reach new levels of technical perfection attracts mass media attention, and therefore, burnishes the brand.  I've read and watched recent reviews, and all sing the Celestiq's performance and design; therefore, my vintage Cadillacs will most assuredly yield future financial benefits when my children put them up for sale on Facebook Marketplace.  Happy day,
                                   James

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

https://www.cadillac.com/electric/celestiq

"MOVEMENT RADICALLY REIMAGINED"

Mike

[smokuspollutus]

Who's doing the first 500 swap?

[TJ Hopland]

I kinda like that names seem to be coming back vs the letters that have been the norm for the last 20+ years but whats with all the Q's?  Was IQ the basic concept so they are trying to figure out what names or words they can stuff IQ into?  CelestIQ. LyrIQ.  OptIQ. VistIQ.  Think they paid an outside company to come up with those or it was done internally?  Either way bet it was really expensive.   

[J. Skelly]

The money would have been better spent offering a variety of car body styles such as what BMW and Mercedes have done.

[tcom2027]

Just history repeating itself. Nothing has changed.

Witness the '57 and '58 Eldorado Broughams which lost money on every sale but built solely to compete with Lincoln.

Or how about the twelve and sixteen cylinder models of the classic era, designed, built and sold in the depths of the depression? Monstrous high powered sedans, dual cowl phaetons and coupes sold to potentates, celebrities, captains of industry and athletes.

THe more things appear to change the more they stay the same. 

Good on Cadillac to stay and compete in the production uber car market.

tony



 

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

Jay Leno's garage had an episode on it a couple months ago.
https://youtu.be/jWv2ew1bGtk?si=7OOlTObIhk5ETSq_

[TJ Hopland]

Does anyone know how close it came out to what they were originally saying it was gonna be?   I didn't look back to see how far back there was talk here about it but there were threads in 2020 about it.  I'm just curious how much it changed.

[Clewisiii]

I talked them out of the storage bins in flip up door arm rests. They wanted leather or suede inside and out. And they used an Audi for reference. But I showed them the Audi did not have leather inside. That enabled the hinge and mechanical parts to be molded directly to the bin. If they wanted leather the mechanical parts would need to be installed after the leather wrapping. I fought for months to get them to eliminate those bins. Then finally I calculated the costs for those 4 bins and mechanisms and other costs to enable them at $750 per vehicle. And they were so small you could not even put sun glasses in them. I argued that is not a high end classy vehicle feature. That is a minivan feature that they are going to overpay for due to volume, construction, and materials.

Finally when all that was laid out the eliminated it.

[Clewisiii]

I was the Primary Interior Surface Feasibility person when we were developing this car (Except for Seats). And I had several fights with GM about how we would make it.

But I feel my most important was this.

Gm wanted me to build this interior in my plant in Germany.
They said, "They are craftsman there, And that is what we want for our car."
I got mad. The only reason they think that is because they have not allowed local suppliers to do anything unique for decades.

I asked them if they thought they would actually get the care and attention they feel they deserve if we build this in Germany. Germany has been laughing at Cadillac for 40 years, and now they think they will go to Germany hat in hand and say, "Will you just do it for us?" They will still be laughing at you while they give you a hard time about it.

I told them they will get more care and pride if we build in Michigan. Cadillac is still one of the best selling Luxury vehicles in Michigan. And all the workers have parents, grandparents, or someone in their lives who Cadillac was special for and would want to be part of that legacy.

GM said, "Well we do not want our parts built in a building that also makes Ford or Chrysler."
I said do you really think that our customers in my German plant, McLaren, Bugatti, Ferrari want their parts made in a building with Cadillac. They do not care about you now, so You will not be special or treated as to tier.

I am happy to say that other then the seats, this interior is made in Port Huron Michigan. Unfortunately still not profitable for the supplier. But it is Michigan based workers sewing that leather, wrapping and working out those interior panels.

[chrisntam]

Looks like a Dodge Magnum wagon.

Haven't seen/heard Jay in a while, he's starting to show his age.

[jwwseville60]

I think its a very, very good effort as a halo technology car.

I see some SAAB Aero and some old Citroen in the design. However, it's a nice design, not a stunningly beautiful one. At the end of the day people buy with their eyes and hearts.

The idea of very low maintenance is really nice.
Long wheelbase and its a sedan not an SUV...thats great.
Is it AWD?
In sunny hot climates I hope you like that huge sunroof. These can only be dimmed so much.
For me, no complicated screens at all would be a luxury.

Giant wheels.....well, it's tough to make the car ride nice.
The electrical tech is way out there, but this is taste of the future.
And yet for the price I would get an Escalade IQ and two vintage Caddys instead.

Still, Im glad they built it. Im a patriot and GM fan.

OK, brass tacks:  for $365K with taxes and tags....Id buy a used Rolls Royce Ghost AWD, or better yet a new Maybach 580e sedan thats AWD and has a 610 mile hybrid range. Both are better looking to me. Both are fast too. Both are around 5700 pounds.

As for darn heavy, tire-eating EVs in general... until there are charging stations absolutely everywhere with fast chargers that work, Im not sold on fire-prone EVs whatsoever. I want 400+ miles range guaranteed in all weather conditions. Im not waiting a 1/2 or a full hour for my car to charge (it happens). How much coffee and reading of newspapers/emails can a person take?

Want a Celestiq? Wait four years. It will be $50K. Im not joking. EV cars age like cream in the desert sun. They depreciate fast because the tech changes fast. Just like 1903, the USA charging network is a joke. Oil companies are dragging their feet. Rural Kansas is not Los Angeles.

For the last 15 years...Promises of miracle "new tech" batteries are always on the horizon, not in the cars. Always its more screens, more power, more software and complexity, more gadgets and unnecessary LED light gimmicks...not more RANGE.

Funny how the Leno video never talked about range...

It weighs 7000 pounds, BTW.

https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/celestiq

Still no range figures!

https://www.bayercadillac.com/2024-cadillac-celestiq-range/

[Bryan J Moran]

It's pretty cool but I don't see Cadillac building more than 100. I'm not a fan of the fastback flying buttress look. But I would think an owner would enjoy the car. 

To me, all GM and Ford halo cars are almost considered discontinued as soon as they are produced.   That should not be the point in my opinion. 

Cadillac was lucky to get runs of Allante XLR and other cars. They don't have a redesign in mind. So after the architecture is dated and to be replaced, they are discontinued. 

That will be the case here.  The Celestiq will be essentially the same for 3-4 years then discontinued quietly. 

Meanwhile Mercedes, BMW, Lexus etc will always have a few halo offerings. Wish Cadillac would prove me wrong but GM and Cadillac are no longer the Standard of the World.

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

I personally feel that today's lithium-ion battery technology has a long way to go to make it safe, reliable and easier to use in an everyday vehicle.  For this and other reasons, I'm not interested in a purchase of ANY electric vehicle, let alone one for $365k.

There is a new technology in development called "solid state batteries".  These have a solid core, unlike current lithium-ion batteries that are liquid making them safer, quicker charging and lower in weight.  This is the future.  Read more about it in this car and Driver article:

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a63306863/solid-state-batteries-evs-explained/

Mike

[billyoung]

I am aware that some years ago Cadillac announced that they were abandoning their traditional market. That said my best advice to Cadillac would be to build one car that appeals to the baby boomer market that does not look like a Kia look a like. Stellantis stopped building Chrysler 300, Charger and Challenger they sold like hot cakes in all their interesting colors. I go by several Dodge Chrysler Jeep lots in my journeys and their stock mostly just sits there. To a great degree I think people are bored to death with black, gray, silver and white SUV look a like crap with electric motors  for $ 60 to 100 thousand dollars. How many undersized 4 doors with no trunk room, bucket seats and console and can't tow anything generic conveyances do they think the market will absorb? I have not seen a Cadillac that made me flock to a Cadillac showroom in 30 years. This new Celestiq to me is just basically an astronomically priced version of the rest of their line with the offer of some choices in color.  One Mans Opinion.

[David King (kz78hy)]

I don't want to end up writing a dissertation about this, but I was on the car when it started off the CT6 (Omega) platform.  Lots of twists and turns.  Meet up w/me at GN during the Brougham bar session and ask questions and I can provide what I remember and how the thought process happens, at least at the worker bee level.

I am a Manufacturing Engineer for GM and was on Omega for its life in US.  Today I'm in advanced vehicle development, but I am cleared for approach to land and be free of employment.

[cadillacmike68]

If the Celestiq's launch is anything the Lyriq's, then it will be a disaster.

[James Landi]

David,

Your invite is certainly tempting. I, for one, truly enjoy the historical narratives about a new car's development, and sometimes the behind the scenes creative work,engineering discussions, as well as the corporate culture are far more interesting than what appears as the final product.  We're fortunate to have you and several other members who were 'in the room' at GM as new Cadillacs evolved and came to market. James