Inherited a 1938 Cadillac 65, where do I begin?

[Bill Gauch]

Just got my grandparents 1938 Cadillac, series 6519, and intend to restore it. The car seems mostly complete. (Missing 3 hubcaps, all 4 door lock buttons, and the radio volume knob) There is 1 small dent in each of the front fenders and only surface rust on the rest of the body. I have done work on cars (brakes, fuel, maintenance, etc.) I am pretty handy and intend to do as much of the work as possible on the mechanical side of things. I have a 2 car garage, but can only reasonably expect my wife to allow me to use half of it. I would like to restore it to factory original, but due to my space limitations, I cant take the body off while I work on the internals. I have started to take pictures, intending to catch all angles of each piece and part as it originally sits, to document what I have done as well as aid in reassembly. Having never done anything of this scale, I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice for what the general order of restoration is. My current plan was as follows:

1. Remove the interior
2. Remove the removable body panels (fenders, doors, hood, etc.)
3. Remove the engine and transmission

After that, its a little hazy as to what to do next. I know I need to replace everything made of rubber. The car was in good running condition before it was put to bed. I know I need to look at every part and piece on the car. I also think it would be fun and rewarding to be able to drive it around the block before its "complete," but I realize that doing so would require it to be mechanically complete. Well, I guess thats enough rambling.

Thanks,
Bill Gauch.

BTW, I have lots of pictures. If anyone is interested, I can put up a page on my web site. Just let me know.

[Jack McClow CLC #15840]

Id like to see some pictures.  Plus, how long did your grandparents own the car?  Did they buy it new?  How long has it been sitting since it last was running?  What are your memories of the car?  Did you ride around in it when you young(er)?  Hope you dont think Im asking too many questions ..... I just find cars with a family history to be so much more interesting than cars with an unknown past.  I know for sure I would like to have a couple of the cars my one grandfather in particular had in his lifetime, and reminisced about to me when I was just a young sprout.

Jack.  

[Bill Gauch]

Here is the link with pictures.

http://www.therhodeislandreview.com/recreation/1938cadillac65/1938cadillac65.html TARGET=_blank>http://www.therhodeislandreview.com/recreation/1938cadillac65/1938cadillac65.html

I made the page fairly quickly so there is no text. Also, clicking on the pictures will load a larger shot, but you will have to use the back button to return to the index page.

This was the first car that my grandparents purchased together. From what i remember from my grandmother, they bought the car used from a gentleman who had a 38 and a 40 and was strapped for cash due to some bad investments. The car was their daily driver. My grandfather was the adventurous type who enjoyed the outdoors. As such, the back of the car was raised a bit to allow towing a camper trailer. They used the car to cross the US (with 3 daughters in tow as well), stopping at state and national parks along the way. My grandfather worked in California for some ammount of time. During this time they decided that black was not the correct color for a car in the southwest, so they had it painted silver. Eventually, they came back east to Rhode Island where the car became the transportation for my mother and her two sisters. Finally, it became an occasional driver for my grandfather. It was driven into the garage in 59 (probably in the late fall/early winter), never to leave again. A neighbor of my grandparents owned an autobody shop and he recommended that my grandfather run the car up to temp once a month. He probably did that until he came down with cancer some time in the 70s. I never saw the car move. In fact, for as long as I can remember (born in 74) there was an "antique" horsehair matress on top of it that my grandmother had always indended to have "re-haired." It finally left its home of 45 years, or so, when I brought it to its new home in my garage.

Bill Gauch.

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Gday Bill,

Now, you have asked the question "where do I begin"?

I hate to say it, but if you have to ask that question, then this restoration is going to take a LOT of time, and a LOT of money, and will probably never get finished.   Sorry to be so blunt.

But, all isnt lost.

Even though EVERYTHING on this wonderful car there is so much that will need expensive restoration, like the pitting of the chrome grille for example.   This might be just one of those cars that requires a general clean-up, make roadworthy, and enjoy the patina of originality.

I know, you can tell me to shut up, and you probably have by now, but I have seen too many cars started with enthusiasm, only to die with despair.   Someone then either snaps it up for a song, or it becomes a total money-pit.

As I said before, sorry to be so blunt.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

P.S.   I hope you do get it done to the level that you want, just to spite me.

[Michael Stamps 19507]

To continue on what Bruce said.  You can keep it driveable and do a section by section restoration.  You dont need to do a body of restoration to have a great looking car.  Here is what I suggest in order of steps:

1) Preserve the car.  Make sure that any rust or detoriating parts are saved from futher damage.

2) Mechanically restore the car.  Get it the engine running and the other mechanical components in good working order.  At this time you have a drivable car to start enjoying.

3) Restore the body.  This may range from a good paint job to a full restoration of the chrome.  This is the point where you really have to decide how much money you want to put into it.

4) Restore the interior.  This is is pretty basic and can be done while driving around a beautiful and mechanically sound car.

This steps can be done over a couple of years or a decade.  Bruce is right about once a car is striped all the way down to nuts and bolts it is hard to get things going back together without lost interest or funds.  The main thing is to enjoy the car and that will keep you going in your little projects to make her better.

Stampie

[Joe Abernathy #17524]

I agree with Stampie.  Take care of the rusty/rotting things...check the floors under any carpet or mats, the trunk etc.  Then get the car road worthy and drive it.  You will get more enjoyment and a greater appreciation for the car by driving it than anything else.  Later  you can redo the interior and have the body and paint done when your time, budget and spouse allow it!!!

[Brian Rachlin]

Bill,

Begin slowly.  DO NOT remove the interior yet.  When you get that far into the project, your interior shop will be much better off if they start with an intact interior, plus, everything you take off of the car takes up lots of storage space, AND its nicer to work on the car, and get it running if you have a seat to sit on. If you take everything apart at the same time, you will be overwhelmed by the magnitude of the task very quickly.

If I were you, I would first make sure that the engine turns over, and if it is stuck, there are some basic procedures to get it unstuck.

If you want to completely rebuild the engine, clutch and trans, it will be easier to take the front end sheet metal off of the car, push it outside, powerwash the chassis and engine and get as much grease and grime off of the underside of the car as you can.

Make sure that you have a useable engine that is not rusted internally or has qny cracks in the block.  Plan on rebuilding the engine, re-coring the radiator, rebuilding the clutch, installing a new repro wiring harness, and get the car running.

If you take the body off of the frame, you will add lots of time to your project, and unless you are going for a total concours restoration, its not necessary.

Heres a link to a webpage showing a 1936 Packard that was a VERY rough car when I started, but I turned it into a National 1st place winner at Packard Club National meets:

http://www.hbgbmusic.com/resto.html TARGET=_blank>http://www.hbgbmusic.com/resto.html

This took 17 years to complete, and took a lot of cash to get it done, but it was worth it in the end.

Take your time, tag and bag everything you remove, take tons of digital pics, and make notes as you go.  Asking for help and suggestions was a good move.  There was no internet when I restored my Packard.  Just Hemmings, the Packard Club, and vendors at Hershey and Carlisle.  Take your time, do your research, start buying parts, and little by little, it will get done.  Car restoration is a wonderful hobby, can be a family activity, and can be very enjoyable if you approach it with the right attitude.

Good Luck,

Brian

[Jack McClow CLC #15840]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the history of your new project; the car has been in your family for a long time  ....... I think its great that you are planning to hold on to it and return it to the road.  And thanks for all the pictures.  I hope you have, or can find, some pictures of the car and your grandparents together from back in the cars younger days; as you make progress on the restoration, and take pictures along the way, itll be nice to have some original photos mixed in as well if they are available.

Youve been given good suggestions by those who have been where you are now ....... probably everyone has their own idea as to where to start ........ all I can add is what I did when I started my own restoration, which is still on-going ....... the very first thing I did was to order a set of four correct reproduction tires, with the proper whitewall width, for my 57 convertible which was in need of just about everything; I already had good wheelcovers so once I had the new tires mounted, I installed them on the car which instantly made me feel like I had accomplished something ....... plus, the car sat nice and level, the tire/wheel combination looked great, and the car actually looked like it might amount to something one day.  This might not be your idea of where to start, but for me it was the perfect place to begin and Id start there again without hesitation.  Then I went through the mechancials just like youve been advised ....... Im now to the stage where I can drive the car and enjoy it, although its not that pretty to look at ........ but people are basically pretty kind and pretend that it looks better than it does, so its not too embarrassing.  Now Im buying chrome pieces on e-Bay and looking for the perfect place to have the body/paint work done ...... Ive enjoyed doing the restoration in stages ....... I bet you will, too.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Jack.

[JIM CLC # 15000]

06-28-05
Bill, If I were you I would start with the Brakes, fix them first. Presure wash or just wash the car and vacuum out the dirt, it will make you feel better.
A brake kit can be had from "KANTER AUTO PRODUCTS", they have an on-line catalog.
The steering wheel can be re-casted, a new dash, after much work, can be had and there are still places that will re-plate the chrome and buff/polish the stainless-steel trim.
Start a collection of 800 numbers and parts catalogs. Go to the public libarery or buy a copy of the "Hemming Motor News",one copy per year is enought. Consider joining the Cadillac-La Salle Club, you can join on-line. Of all the money that you will spend, joining the CLC will be the best spent money. $35.00 to join and you will get loads of information.
Keep the board posted on your progress and keep the questions coming.
Good Luck, Jim

[Bill Sullivan]

What a lovely car and it is nice to have such a personal history with it.

All the suggestions made seem good to me.  All I would add is that the first thing to do is decide what you want the end result to be.  If you want a concours restoration like Brians, the first steps are different than if you want to clean up/fix up this car to make it roadworthy and usable.

If you go the concours route, dont count on any financial return from the project.  Cars like this one are never worth enough in concours condition to justify the expense.  But it can be a lot of fun to manage and participate in a concours restoration.  Brians Packard is a good example, looks like he had 17 years of fun with this project, and ended up with a beautiful car in the end.

If you do clean up fix up, start with a few limited goals.  Gather up shop manuals and literature about the car.  Get the brakes working.  Fix the suspension (probably needs new king pins and bushings).  Remove and rebuild the engine.  Replace the wiring. Avoid massive disassembly of the car, disassemble only what you are working on, and reassemble before going to the next step.

These steps can be done one at a time, and give you a chance to find help you need and learn whether you like this sort of work.  If there is a local CLC club or any old car club in your area, join it.  You will find friends there with plenty of experience and no shortage of suggestions.

Good luck and enjoy!

Bill.
Albuquerque, NM

[JIM CLC # 15000]

06-29-05
Bill, to continue my post of yesterday.
The glass in the Cadillac hood oreniment can be made of either glass or plastic. (lucite). A good glass shop can cut and polish the edges and have it tempered.
As I said in the first post, please keep the CLC board posted on your progess and questions.
Good Luch, Jim

[Bill Gauch]

Thanks to all for your advice. It is greatly appreciated. After reading a book and several web sites, I realize how monumental a do-it-yourself frame-off restoration is. After closely inspecting the underside of the car, I think that I could feel like I am making much more progress and stay motivated by working one thing at a time and save the frame-off part for later (much, much later). If I can get it running (and turning and stopping), I will be much happier over the course of the whole project, which is what truely matters. My wife has given me a deadline which I am sure I can stick to. She has told me that I have to have the car done by the time our kids we dont have yet get married. I figure that gives me at least 20 years.

Bill Gauch.

[Art#22010]

       All the comments offered are great and I can add nothing to it. Two things , both first to do on my list.
       1. You have contacted the club with members whose knowledge is almost boundless. If not a member and no one has mentioned, I sure I speak for all of us, join the CLC.
       2. You have decided to preserve it, this is most important.

       My 2cents.  Ist thing to do is to stop or neutralize any futher deterioration.     Good luck.  Art

[Alex Hattem]

and save your money and ESPECIALLY your marriage!

Alex

[JIM CLC # 15000]

07-02-05
Bill, you should be able to buy the door lock knobs/pulls at most any auto parts store. Just ask the clerk for them. make a few phone calls to save time and gas and money.
Good Luck, Jim

[Michael Stamps 19507]

I have to wonder if you either want to buy the car cheap or if you didnt control your own project enough so that your wife had a problem.  We arent here to tell others to give up.  We are here to give advice and help others in any way we can.

Stampie

[brian rachlin]

The original question stemmed from a new person to the hobby that also has an emotional attachment to the car.  He was looking for car advice, not marital advice.

Brian

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Yes, and Bill has said that he has a wonderful understanding wife.

That is truely an asset.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[Porter 21919]

Bill,

That is a huge undertaking, a resto shop will justifyingly charge you anywhere from 50 to 100 grand and fittingly so depending on how much work the car needs.

A frame off job is to create a truly restored car like factory new or actually better than with modern coatings, a trailer queen or a sparsely driven car only in dry weather.

Most likely you would never get your money back if you decide to ever sell it.

For most of us Cadillac resto is a hobby, not a business.

Granted we would all prefer a frame off full resto but it is not practical for the vast majority.

A car can be frame on restored and made driveable, that would be 90 some percent of most of us here.

Take your time and put together a game plan and a budget before you do anything.

Good luck,

Porter (66 & 67 CDVs)