The best engine ever from GM: 472/500

[Porter 21919]

At least we have that claim to fame as Cadillac aficianados.

Corvette engines have always been highly prized and desirable, worth big money. Small wonder the SBC has taken over the street rod world of drivetrains.

Even the Northstar has developed a following, they use them in street rods and speed boats just to be different.

Dont let the proposed Modified Chapters guys get under your skin, none of them are taking a nice Cadillac and butchering it, usually just salvaging the drivetrain or upgrading the engine for more performance, typically saving a car from the crusher or just making it driveable.

We are all Cadillac guys, that is the common bond.

Porter

[Randall McGrew CLC # 17963]

Amen, Porter.  I would add my cars 425 cid to that list 500/472/425 cause they all came from that venerable 500.  As I keep saying, modification is the essence of keeping our cars on the road, at least for those of us on a very skimpy budget.    So far, though, I have only had to do a little.  But my gosh the reactions people give to seeing our cars on the road.

Today, some wonderful anonymous person left two 1977 wheel covers next to my car while I was visiting my mother in the nursing home.  The note read :

"Thought you might need extra hubcaps.  They are hard to find.  I miss my
Eldorado.  Its always fun to see yours - "  Anonymous

I was flabbergasted.  What a nice thing to do!!!  So you see.  We do effect people in a positive way just by using our old cars.  

Thank you, Anonymous, whereever you are!!!

[David #19063]

Wow Randall,

That is pretty cool of that person doing that for you.  

Too bad they didnt leave a name so you could give the a ride in youe 77 Eldorado.

David

[Porter 21919]

I could never understand how the 368 would be considered under powered,(the V8-6-4 gave it the bad rep) the system is back now.  My 90 SBC 350 has tons of power in my 90 G20 Van, not a big displacement engine but adequate power, the throttle body fuel injection has been 100percent trouble free, after the computer was replaced the first day I drove it. LOL

Cadillac engines were always considered to the best till the ill fated HT 4100, have never heard any real criticism of a Corvette engine yet though, although they suffered through the smog era like all Detroit engines.

The big misconception is smaller displacement equals better gas mileage, NOT under load. You need adequate power to drive a car safely.

[George Woodford clc21025]

It is my understanding that the 425 cid engine holds the mileage record of any engine built by Cadillac.  The figure I recall was 600K miles without rebuilt.

[Randall McGrew CLC # 17963]

Damn...I got a LONG way to go at 102,404.  or whatever it is now.  I call it new with only a little over 2000 on the clock.  LOL!  But I dont think she will make it to 600K cause she has a little, tiny pinging sound after she overheated on the 19th.  I may have to have the heads off to see whats up.

I had a 1969 Olds Cutlass sport with a 350 cid Rocket and it went like the clappers.  Nice car too if a bit plain.  Gotta love those Caddy engines!!!

[Rob Gerace #16100]

"I could never understand how the 368 would be considered under powered"

Porter,
   I dont mean to cut you down, but people consider the 368 underpowered because it was, very much so, underpowered.  The thing only had 140 horsepower, and was pulling a 2-ton car around.  And the carbureted version put out a neck-snapping 145 horsepower, I think.  Modern engines that are less than a third of its size are putting out much more power than that.  An 80-81 Cadillac with a 368 was a very slow, underpowered car.  I know, because I owned one.  It was my first car.  I was a good, reliable car.  But lets be honest now, the performance in that era was pretty crappy.  I think a lot of people just tend to see the past through rose-colored glasses.  Just my thought.

Rob
   

[Porter 21919]

Rob,

I never drove one, I just assumed with the displacement it should have adequate power. Apparently it was engineered to be a dog with good gas mileage.

[Rhino 21150]

There seem to be a whole lot of 500 "crate" engines running around these days. Is the General still building them for truck use or something? How do they relate to the 70s era monsters? I put a 72 500 (I think) in a 59 Eldo back around 89. What a brute!

[Denise 20352]

  Where are you seeing these?  I heard that someone was selling fake ones on Ebay.

-denise

[Rhino 21150]

type "crate engine" into Google. Im not looking to buy, Im curious about where they are coming from.

[Porter 21919]

http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/perfpartsjsp/partlist.jsp?section=ce&cat=9274 TARGET=_blank>http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/perfpartsjsp/partlist.jsp?section=ce&cat=9274

Not Cadillac engines but the good stuff nonetheless.

Heres a rebuilder.

http://rebuilt.com/Cadillac_Engines.htm TARGET=_blank>http://rebuilt.com/Cadillac_Engines.htm

[Mike #19861]

 I have had a fair bit of experience with these 368 engines. And they are indeed underpowered. Like the 307 and the HT4100 in these big cars.

 They also had atrocious fuel economy. Perhaps because they were working so hard. V-864 when it was working did not help much in this respect either.

 The 472 is a phenominal engine. In its original high compression version from 68-70 it made incredible, almost explosive power. It was smooth, quiet and refined when just tooling around. When tuned correctly it was also capable of some pretty decent fuel economy. And to top it off, they are absolutely bullet proof. They will simply never wear out if maintained and treated well. Im sure a 472 could easily hit the 600K mark as well.

  Mike

[Mike #19861]

 Maybe that is the one you see. Its a version of the big block Chev. 472s and 500s have been out of production for at least 25 years.

  Mike

[Porter 21919]

My buddy has a 502 in his 2004 Suburban 4x4, passes everything but the gas pump. Fully loaded,leather,onstar,onboard navigation, whatever. He prefers it to the Cadillac version with the 6.0L engine.

They have a marine version too.

[Mike #19861]

Actually, its a 496. It has a differant bore/stroke ratio than the 502. The 502 is not emissions certified, so you wont see it in a production vehicle. Although you do see them in customs and hot rodas of all sorts. The marine version is the 502 as well.

  Mike

[Denise 20352]

  OK, where are the prices on these crate engines?  

-denise

[Porter 21919]

Densie,

On that webpage you have to plug in your zip code if Im not mistaken to find your local distributor to get pricing, up here in Maine the dealer was a Chevy outfit in NH., I found all pricing that way some time ago.

Curiously they now show a Northstar crate engine on that page, in addition to many more engines then a few years ago.

The 350 Chevy engines are a decent buy $$$. The ZZ engines and the big blocks get pricey $$$.

Porter

[Denise 20352]

  We have the 350 TBI engine in our 92 truck, and I love it.  Its an amazing improvement over the 70s carbureted 350, like night and day, as far as power and gas mileage go.

  I also had the 425 in my Deville, and was not impressed with it whatsoever.  It had less power than even the old 350s did.  Im told that a better cam helps.

-densie

[Mike #19861]

 Gearing was probably to blame here. Most of these 425s were saddled with a 2.23:1 gear, making acceleration quite lethargic. Chances are your pickup has a 3.08 or 3.23 gear, and in a lighter package, will make acceleration more sprightly. The OD trans makes for leisurely cruising, just what the 2.23 in the deVille was supposed to accomplish in the pre OD era.

  Mike