First I d like to say hello to everybody here. I am brand new to this forum, my name is Godi Drexler and I live in germany.
I need your help as I just bought a 1936 Cadillac convertible/roadster here in germany and this car comes without any paperwork or tags on the firewall. It is a true restauration projekt with the drivetrain missing. It was replaced by some 4 cylinder russian engine, gearbox and rear axle. WOW! :P
But anyhow I am glad that I found this beauty and I am willing to bring it back to its former look and back on the road where it belongs ... :)
First thing to help me is to know if cadillac used VIN Numbers on the frame at this time and if, where can I find it? I need to find out much more of this car - how it came to europe etc etc and at least if I am going to bring it back to road I ll need some identification numbers or other historical information.
I will try to post a few pictures the next days and I hope that you can help me with her. Maybe someone can identify her and knows the car? I will be happy to hear from you.
Thank you very much.
Godi
Frame number is on the top of the left hand side of the chassis Godi,(looking from above) around the steering box area. So glad you have saved this car, there are two 36 Cadillacs here in England, mine is a hard top coupe and there's a convertible owned by a famous pop star. Some pictures of your find would be good and perhaps we can work out what series it is. The correct drive train will be difficult to find, both the Cadillacs here do not have their original engines.
Steve
Hello Steve thank you very much for answering. As I dont have the car here at my place yet I have to be patient and cant take pictures and search for VIN Number. But I will pick it up on Monday (we have lot of snow here thats why it takes time) I will search for the VIN immediately then and I will inform you! Because of the wheelbase it seames to be a series 80 chassis/car? I hope there is the VIN somewhere this would help... : )
Ill get back to you as soon as the car is here at my place. Can I find pictures of your 36 here somewhere?
Thanks again.
Godi
email me Godi and Ill send you some pictures, also of the convertible coupe here.
Now that fellas is what you call a modified car, found in Romania, Godi tells me it has a 4 cylinder east European engine, some unknown drive train, virtually no interior, wrong headlights and in the wrong position, lots and lots of missing and wrong parts, but the interesting thing is it comes with a story about being a present from the mayor of New york in 1936 to the king of Romania for his wife! Another strange thing is he doesn't have a complete frame number, only the start digits of 3A 1, Could this story be true? and why only part the number.
Sadly there's so much missing of hard to get parts I have to agree with Godi that customizing it in some way will be this cars only salvation unless he can find a complete parts car, even then a sedan wont give up all the parts needed for this convertible. I wish him the best of luck and will do anything I can to help.
Interesting indeed. As to the story about the King of Romania, take it with a large grain of salt. In 1936 the King of Roumania (as it was spelled before the communist period) was Carol II and had long been divorced from his wife. He had a notorious public affair with Elena Lupescu, and abdicated in 1940 after Hitler and Stalin annexed large chunks of Roumania for Hungary and the Soviet Union. However, back to cars: Carol II was a noted car lover and one car of his that has survived is a spectacular 1937 Franay bodied Packard Super 8 in the Motor Museum of Riga in Latvia (I recommend it for its amazing collection of ZIS and ZIL limos, soviet copies of Buicks and Packards for the most part). From photos I have seen the official cars of the Royal Family of Roumania at that time seem to be mostly Lincoln Ks. Interestingly there is a link with the Mayor of New York and a Queen of Roumania: when Queen Marie (mother of Carol II) visited the US in 1926, she was greeted in New York by flamboyant mayor Jimmy Walker, who rode with her in a ticker tape parade (the car was a Packard...). I lived in Romania for two years (great country) but there is not much in the way of old cars....
Thomas McDonald
1937 Cadillac 7029
CLC #24747
Hello Thomas.
Thank you very much for your reply. I was almost to give up searching for the "truth". I sent an email to the official website of the royal family of romania. Carols son Michael of Romania is still alive and I hoped to get answer or information about cars belonging to the family this time. But unfortunately no reply at all... : (
Can you help and let me know where you found these photos of the familys cars?
Thank you very much. Kind regards.
Godi
Dear Godi
Indeed former King Michael is still alive and now lives again in Romania. He is 91 years old, and in my opinion a great and good man and it is a pity that Romania did not reestablish the constitutional monarchy after the fall of the communist regime. Michael is also a car enthusiast, and you should get a book that has recently been published in Romania "Masinile Regelui" (The King's Cars) written by his son in law Prince Radu. I have not yet got a copy but from what I can tell there are lots of interesting photos -- Buicks, Lincolns, Alfas, Jaguars and jeeps. On the pre-war side I think there is a photo of a 1938 Cadillac limousine (difficult to tell more based on the photos I have seen on the internet). I will order a copy though my office in Bucharest and let you know in more detail when I get it. In any case, it is of course possible that your car was a present by Carol II to his mistress Elena Lupescu, but this is probably going to be hard to establish and I doubt whether Prince Radu would have any information about this.
Can you send me some photos of your car? Where in Romania did you find it?
kind regards
Tom
Dear Godi
I have found on a Romanian site (Rezistanta Urbana) a very interesting photgraph dated 1941 of King Michael and Marshall Antonescu in a motorcade driving in a 1936 Cadillac (either a series 85, 75 or 70) Convertible Sedan. Antonescu was the effective ruler of the country after the abdication of Carol II the year before. Michael (Mihai) was only 20 at the time. The photograph was taken at the Arch of Triumph in Bucharest -- at the time Romania was allied with Hitler. The second car in the motorcade looks to me like a Horch.
I have tried to attach the photograph to this message. I suppose your car is a convertible coupe rather than a convertible sedan?
Tom
Hello Tom, great picture. This is phantastic, even if this is not my car!
Mine is a convertible coupe and, as I found out with the help of steve passmore, its a series 70. I did not find it in romania myself, I found it in germany. After a long time forward and back and up and down I could at last buy it. I was "restored" in romania - I gues in the 1980ties. It came to germany in the 1990ties and since then it was given from one hand to the other and noone ever tried to find out something about it. I was the first person to detect the frame number for example. Unfortunately there is not much left of the original cadillac stuff such as door handles and all the "little things". All the tags are gone and paperwork is lost as well.
It still has built in an romanian drivetrain (4 Cylinder ARO engine transmission and rear axle).
In my opinion the only chance to bring it back to the road is to "customize" it. I dont believe that anyone can find a good coupe for example to use the parts...
I will try to show a few pictures here.
Thanks for your information and help.
Godi
Here come some pictures.
Godi
Hello Godi
Welcome to the Cadillac & LaSalle Club.
Thank you for sharing your acquisition with us. It looks like a 1936 Cadillac 7067. This had a 346 cu. in. engine with a starting sequence of 3110001-3115248, 135hp 7 qat crankcase, cooling system 29 qt., two mufflers with a ride stabilizer and hydraulic brakes. The Fleetwood is 131 inch, shipping weight 4690lbs selling for $2695.00. Only 5248 70 and 75 Series automobiles were manufactured. This is not my era of expertise. I would also suggest that you go to the home page to join our national club and acquire an Authenticity Manual to guide your restoration.
There is one listed in our club directory. Please become a member of the Classic Cadillac Club in Germany. They are great guys
What a gorgeous car, dare I say it might be more intriguing to leave it with its Russian heart and wrong parts?
Interesting topic so far. If you want to find out where the car was sold, you can. It costs $50 & they will send you a copy of the original invoice showing colors & equipment & where it was sold.
Look on the CLC home page. There is a link to authenticate your car. Do what it asks.
HTH, Bob
There by hangs a problem Bob, Godi does not have the original engine which would have been the chassis number so he would know what number to give the GM archives, his car has virtually no chassis number so I don't know what the archives would make of that. I suspect they would take his money then say they cant find it.
I have never seen anything like it but he only has the start digits and not enough numbers, and there's absolutely no sign of the numbers ever being removed as I first suspected with it being East European.
He has just 3A1 or something as short as that, and that's all, when it should have at least 3 more digits behind it. the A would translate to 11 on the engine.
Godi was hoping that the 1 after the A designated it as the first off the production line, I'm more inclined to think it would have read 0001, but its a nice thought.
@ Nedeem: I even thought about this opportunity as well... But somehow the 4 Cylinder engine is undeserving for such a car. And you should see how everything is done here. Lacking good material there is everything used wahat was availlible, such as wooden bars plastic bottles, foam stuff foil and hundreds of different clothes to insulate the roof etc etc it is not really nice to look at.
I statred to dismantle it and steve had a good steering wheel for me (the one on the pictures didnt fit, was just fixed witha big nut - dangerous9 so that now I can move the car better.
I still dont know how to go on so I just wait for the weather to get better/warmer and meanwhile I hope to find out more about the cars history.
Thanks everybody for your engagement.
A few photos of the"status quo" attached. :)
Godi
Steve,
We need 7 numbers.
The 3
The A = 11
So... we need 4 more #'s. They have to be there. They may be faint & hard to see. There is some kind of acid that will bring out #'s. Cops use it for serial #'s on guns that have been filed off. I'm not sure how far Godi wants to take it.
HTH, Bob
I hear what your saying Bob and I know what numbers should be there, trouble is Iv studied the picture of where Godi has cleaned off the chassis and there really seems to never have been other numbers, and the number that are there look factory to me, there are no signs of any being removed, see what you think.
Steve,
I agree. Maybe it's a true export car & no frame # was assigned?? Can you verify any export cars in England & see how they were handled? Are you sure it's a 70 series car? Bob
Defiantly a 70 series Bob. Chassis number starting with 3, 131" wheelbase and the wider grill.
The only factory import here belongs to a famous pop star, it resides about 20 miles from here in a restoration shop for servicing and improvements the winter months and spends the summer months in France. I have helped with some aspects of the car in past years but its usually by invite only. I have no free access to it unless I'm passing by when it happens to be there.
I have pictures of a 36 coupe exactly like mine taken in the London area in the 60s but shes long gone now. I would guess the cars imported here were in single figures.
AS Godis car is a LHD, they may have had different numbers than the export RHD anyway, but all the RHD US cars Iv owned have never had a different Chassis number, at most they would have a E or something on the end.
Some US cars that were assembled here did have UK specific chassis numbers but Cadillac s were not one of those assembled here, at best they came "Knocked down" basically just with their wheels and some other components removed and placed in a big crate, that bypassed the import duties.
Steve,
Just checked the old 1942 MPB. It shows 36, 60,70 & 75 cars having the frame # stamped twice. I think I understand what the book said? Both on the LH frame. One just in front of the cowl & one opposite the battery. Maybe they forgot to stamp both.
Godi, I'm not sure what location you found, but I suggest you search both locations.
HTH, Bob
Bob, the location for the number I directed Godi to was on top the frame rail just behind the steering box in front of the cowl left hand side, the normal place for these numbers. Iv never heard of another but I guess that's worth checking if at all possible because the battery is under the drivers seat and very little of the frame can be seen there without removing the body?
Hello Bob, as Steve tells you I was searching for the VIN Number instantly. The Digits seem to be the correct ones (the design of letters) this means the number hasnt been changed or manipulated. No scratches or other signs of changing something on the frame in this area. I told Steve that I could try to check with several 4 digit options where the car is been delivered then. But it always will cost â,¬ 50.- with no assurance ...
I thought IF the story is true and the NEW YORK Mayor - a member of the government of the US in 1936 - really got the car to give it away as a "political present" could it be that Cadillac gave a VIN to the frame that was outside of the series/production Numbers? Or is it the first car of a series? Misterious anyway.
Steve says I should not give to much attention on the frame number but I believe even in 1936 factorys had a clear system about their productions...
Interesting story.
Maybe we can find out more, I cant find a direct mail contact to Michael of romania, and the official bureau of the royal familyof romania is not answering. :(
Godi
Ps : By the way how do you like the "safety door lock" used to lock the trunk? ;D
Sorry guys, I posted this without checking that there were two more posts of you on the next side... :o
I will check for the VIN in the Batterybox area! Where exactly should I look for it?
Thanks Godi
I don't know where you can check Godi, I have just had a good look at my car and there's no top section of the chassis rail in sight through the battery hole. I do not remember any other numbers in that area when the body was off and I sand blasted the frame ???
Yes Steve thats what I wanted to ask you, you should have found something as you did a true frame off restoration...
I searched today but nothing found, I even checked the frame underneath the front floor panel which I can take out. :(
Anyway I am thankfull for any idea or tip that somebody may have.
Godi
Guys,
You might need a mirror to see the one near the battery. Godi, yes, the looks of those #'s are correct for the era. Unless we can determine all 7 #'s, you will be wasting money.
Steve, if your frame is clean, it may be easier for you to find those #'s. Wish I could be there in person to help both of you look.
HTH, Bob
My frame was sand blasted by myself Bob and painted, My blaster is very small, the chassis took me two days. I'm sure I would have seen any other numbers when I was doing these processes.
My numbers on the front stand out very well.
I don't think even a mirror would help if there are numbers near the battery because the underside of the floor near the battery is less than an inch above the chassis with all sorts of strengthening channels spot welded to the underside of the floor. You cant get your fingers in there let alone a mirror.
Best hop on a plane Bob and we'll go together ;D
Steve etc.,
Here's an interesting possibility:
Maybe, just maybe, this was exported as a rolling chassis and body with NO engine, hence the lack of the last numbers on the chassis and the strange engine?????
Otherwise it should certainly have had more numbers as you say.
Regards,
Hi John
Love to see new ideas here but the engine, gearbox, back axle and rear wheels are all from a early 80s Soviet 4x4 military vehicle so must have been swopped out during or later than that period.
We had many US cars imported during this era in chassis form as did you in Aus no doubt but I have never seen a single record that there were bare chassis imports, they all carried the running gear.
The body is pucker US convertible there's no doubt about that so I cant imagine anyone then importing the correct body separately to build this thing. Curiouser and Curiouser!
Hi Steve, Bob and Godi,
I am in the midst of restoring a 1940 75 series car and have the body off the chassis.
Brad Ipsen told me to look for the production number which is the same as the VIN but is located farther down the same left side rail that the VIN is on. After some searching before blasting I uncovered that number under the rust, indeed. It would, unfortunately, be difficult to see with the body on, as with the proposal about it being near the battery case.
I attach a picture of the bare frame, blasted and painted, with the VIN surrounded by a green stripe and the production number visible as a bright spot on the same side rail.
Maybe that could be an identifying possibility if Cadillac used to stamp the frames twice also in 1936.
Hilarius.
Wow, thanks to everybody!!
I am planning to take out the romanian engine the next days if I find the time to do so. The next step will be to seperate body and frame, then I will be able to check for other numbers better.
@Hilmar: Are you german? Your name sounds like that. Thanks for the picture - very helpful!
@ Bob: What is "MPB"? There you found the hint to the second frame nr.
Different question: I have a wooden "plate" mounted to the firewall of the car from the inside, doesnt look original, was possibly mounted to insulate the car against the cold in romania. But I am not quite shure if it s orig. or not. I want to take it out but maybe it belongs there? Its about 1,5 inch thick....
Attached a pic of the (wrong I know) installed wipermotor, but behind it you can see the firewall - I am talking about the orange stuff there...
And another interesting picture - just for your entertainment. The gas tank (wich wasnt the correct one anyway) was also wrapped in plastik foil and tied together with cable etc.. I guess insulation against the cold as well.
I believe the car was used as a daily driver in romania during the 1970ties and 80ties so it just had to work. It wasnt something special then loke for us nowadays - just an old car!
Now thats what I call a cars history! ;)
Godi
Godi,
Yes, Hilmar is in the same country as you, maybe you can get together some day.
MPB is Master Parts Book.
No, the wooden plate is not correct, its supposed to be a thick fiber firewall insulator with another fiber board painted surface facing the interior, usually black or brown, quite flexible compared to solid wood. Most rotted away and I guess wood seemed the next best thing to the Romanians. Hard to work and get into place I imagine.
Very interesting seeing the second number on Hilmars frame, that gives you another possibility there Godi, weird if it was also the short number eh?
Godi, after what Bob said about the second number and the picture that Hilmar posted I decided to take another look at my car, I removed the seat and battery, got a good light and some 80 grit paper and using the position on the frame shown in Hilmars picture got my hand down under the floor at that position and rubbed furiously then got my head into the battery cage, and there it was, so very faint I missed it when blasting, in fact the top half of all the numbers didn't get stamped properly but it was there, on top of the outside frame rail midway of the battery cage. You don't need to remove the body.
So faint are these number though that if I didn't have the front numbers I would have trouble reading what they were.
Go for it and see what you can find.
Wowsa! Steve! I already looked carefully but now I know what to do tomorrow! : ) Take a even better look! I can imagine you rubbing furiously. : )
Thank you guys you re all so great!
I will let you know if I can find something tomorrow! For sure!
So exciting! I love it!
Godi
Steve & Hilmar,
Thanks for the input. We may be able to get the full frame # yet.
Godi,
I would suggest you NOT pull the body until you have a restoration plan in mind. Here's my suggestion. Find a solid 1936 70 series sedan donor car. I think one could be located for a reasonable price at this time. Use it to restore your car to stock. Your car s so rare that it would be a shame to make a custom out of it. Keep us posted. I think Steve indicated that you can find that other # without pulling the body.
Bob
Quote from: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on April 05, 2013, 03:38:30 PM
Steve & Hilmar,
Here's my suggestion. Find a solid 1936 70 series sedan donor car. I think one could be located for a reasonable price at this time.
Bob
My sentiments exactly Bob, and Godi and I have discussed this at some length, If it were mine its what I'd do but the problem for me would be the time frame waiting for a good donor car to come along, how long have I got left? Cant say Iv ever seen a 70 series sedan that needed restoring since Iv had mine, that's what I was hoping for when I bought it, would have saved me 10 years,. I appreciate we cant get to hear about every one for sale in the US living so far away, and at what price a 36 anyway?
There was a barn find 60 series recently which would have donated very little as most of it is wildly different so it really must be a 70, even then none of the interior trim would be any good or body panels.
Ideally would be a donor sport coupe but I think the price of even an un- restored one would be prohibitive.
Spares for these cars are incredibly hard to find, I have been looking for parts for my car for the past 12 years and even now still have some bits missing having had a lot of it made as bits just never came up. Many, Many things are peculiar to just this one year, door handle, wheels etc.
We had (dare I say it) even considered a body swop with my coupe to save the convertible but by my reckoning there are 5 coupes known and 5 convertibles also, so they are equally as rare and I just couldn't justify the benefits.
Steve, Bob, Hilmar, everybody! Just came in from searching for the second, the "battery -vin", like I call it from now on.
And what can I say? I ve found it!!!!!! Attached picture - upside down for better reading- shows it exactly.
And if you believe it or not, its the well known 3A 1. : ) :o 8)
So, no mistakes, no forgotten digits, no manipulation, no drunken cadillac worker here, this is the correct frame number of my car.
Lets think of my following ideas: Talking about the FRAME Numbers, not the enginenr or VIN, I believe this is the first produced frame in 1936. dont get me wrong, I dont care to be the first, just to understand the system at cadillacs in the 30ties.
I believe they just stamped one produced frame after the other starting with 1 up to (besides the 3A) four digits 5985 or whatsoever.
Tell you why I believe this: Steves car has a (again beside the 3A) 3 digit Number on its frame - undepending what his official VIN might say! His frame should have a zero put in somewhere to always get 4 digits...
They couldnt know how much they are going produce this year, so they started with 1. Makes sence to me.
So the next logic step for me is to try this VIN check you were talking about, tiping in the "311 0001" and see what happens.
Let me hear about your suggestions! Can somebody send a link to that?
The other theme how to go on with this car: Hard to tell, if anyone knows a coupe (maybe different year or lasalle like vinnar foud it) I am thinking about to swap or pay difference because I personally prefer hardtops then convertibles but I dont have a better idea what to do yet.
Cant stop to thank everybody for this phantastic support, this should be reason enough to keep her.
Godi
I have to concede Godi, seems like you could be right from the start.
Tread carefully swopping bodies as the smaller series frames are shorter and narrower.
The company for the build sheet is Allied Vaughn, and their site is
www.gmmediaarchive.com/?page=2
Godi,
That's a very interesting theory. So... it's going to cost you $50 to submit that #. Let us know what the invoice says. In the mean time, unless you have a plan... don't take anything apart. It sounds like you are somewhat undecided on what you really want. Keep it together as a roller. Much easier to sell or trade.
Bob
Dear Godi
I have now received the new book Masinile Regelui (The King's Cars) about the cars of King Michael of Romania and as expected there is no reference to your car. There is only one Cadillac photograph -- a splendid 1940 V-16 limousine.
However I have found out something about the history of your car. It has featured in two Romanian films: Facerea lumii (1971) and Oglinda (1993). You can look them up on the web sites Imcdb.org and Imdb.com. I am almost certain that it is your car, particularly given the incorrect headlights. In the earlier film (made in Communist times) it seems to have been painted red. In the 1993 film it has its current colour. You will note that someone who appears to be in the know has commented that the car has lost its original engine and is languishing in a derelict state in Germany. I attach a photo of your car from a clip from the film Oglinda.
Tom
Tom!
Phantastic. Cant believe it, its defiantly my car! She was complete then, still wearing the hood and hood ornament -seems this was all stolen later! Got to go to those websites now!
Thank you so much!
Godi
Just watched the film right through, not that I understood a word of it. Plenty of US cars in there and sure enough that's Godis.
When its being driven down the road it looks as if the front left wheel has a mind of its own :o nor surprising considering the condition of everything else.
The 38 Buick and 36 Chrysler is in much better shape.
Me again, no doubt about it in both cases its my car. I could cry because she looked so much better then... so I wasnt that wrong to believe that she came to germany in the early 1990ties. Too bad that the hood and other parts were possibly stolen in germany. Maybe the parts are still somewhere around? Who needs a 36 hood? Anyway I ve found one meanwhile. : )
I filled out the Allied Vaugn form to ask for the possible VIN.
Will let you know whats happening.
Thank you Tom.
Godi
Godi
Regarding your point about the car being a gift from the Mayor of New York -- that is almost certainly not true. The Mayor of New York in 1936 was Fiorello LaGuardia, a famous reformer and principled anti-corruption politician. There is no credible reason for him or the city of New York to make such a gift to the King of Romania, who was having a notorious and policitally damaging public affair with Elena Lupescu. If there is a royal connection for this car, it is much more likely to have been a special order from the King, perhaps as a present for Mme Lupescu. In any case I do not think that you will get any information from King Michael or Prince Radu on this.
Tom
Tom,
Maybe Prince Nicolas bought it after he got tired of his Duesenberg?
Bob
Steve,
I know you like a good plot so, back on the missing chassis numbers, here I go again....
My 1937 75 series (and all those I have seen here in Oz) has no chassis number stamped in the chassis rails in the usual or any other location. My chassis has been completely "pulled" from the car and chemically stripped back to bright steel so there is NO chance I have missed it. Here is my theory and the reason why I won't give up on my other theory on Godi's car .......just yet!
All twenty of the 1937 75 series cars that came to Oz (commencing, as it happens, in late 1936) were actually Fleetwoods in CKD (as in complete, knocked down) form. As Mat Larson very kindly found out for me some few years ago, these CKD "kits" were boxed without engines (and a number of other bits that Holden figured they could do better/cheaper). The engines were sent separately.
As I understand the process for cars built in the US, the numbers were FINALLY allocated to a particular car at the moment that the engine, by this stage allocated with a full engine number, was mated with a chassis. The chassis number was then applied to match the engine number.
Hence the fact, in my view, that the Oz cars never had chassis numbers - the engines were added once the kit was assembled here by Holden and engine and chassis never got together at any time prior to that.
Mat's research threw up an even stranger bit of information - the original engines intended for six of the Oz cars (including mine) were never installed! Six (6) of them were dropped during loading on the dock in New York and damaged so much they were replaced after six new engines were subsequently (and separately) shipped here. If any engine number had EVER been applied to the chassis of these six cars, they would have been wrong anyway because Cadillac subsequently sent another six engines (I have the "Build Sheets" and the engine numbers at home somewhere - the Build Sheets are noted as being replacement engines).
Importantly, the six new engines had six new (as in different to the original six) engine numbers.
BTW, Mat has correctly pointed out that this meant that the total production of 1937 75 series cars has been overstated by six for all these years.
Never say Never!
That's really interesting John, Does this apply do you know to all the Cadillacs that entered Aus or just the 75 series?
I can sort of understand it happening in your continent with a big Auto industry like Holden, but it makes me wonder just where that would have taken place in Europe, what auto facility would have taken on such a task with Godis car?
You still have the issue that Godis car DOES have some numbers, why would they bother with any?
If he had none, I might be inclined to agree, and again would the history of this "Export" not come up in Mat Larsens research same as your cars?
Steve,
All Cadillacs (60 and 75 series) for 1937 - Holden only "built" them in 1930 (1) and 1937 and all 75 series cars and all La Salles for 1937 (at least) came here CKD. The La Salles for sure and maybe the 60 series '37's came here without the turret/body rearward of the firewall but with front and rear fenders and hood included (Holden couldn't make a fender for another 11 years). Holden "shut" these CKD components to one of the bodies from their 'A', 'B', 'C' type bodies that they used for a whole range of brands from Vauxhalls to Chevs, Pontiacs, Buicks etc. etc.
I always insist when I see, for example, a 1938 Fisher La Salle up against a Holden version that the Holden has some visual problems of "line" along the waist beginning at the firewall and running rearward because something seems to have been "pinched" to fit there.
Not sure whether the smaller series cars came CKD with their engines separate or not but Mat proved for sure that the 20 75 series cars did.
I know it's a very long shot but.....
Mat spent ages researching the 1937 75 series Build Sheets to sort out the 20 that referred to Oz destination cars for the six 7513 cars (that's 6 out of some 3,500 + Build Sheets) that I was interested in so I suppose he or someone could repeat the exercise if they were of a mind to.
Dear Godi
With reference to your post of 6 April about chassis numbers, I believe that your theory is supported by the statement by Carl Steig (Engine Serial Numbers 1902-1942) on page 44 of the 2013 International Membership Directory: "...In 1936-'37, a letter ("A" in '36, and "B" in '37) replaces the second and third digits and immediately following zeros of the engine number (e.g., in 1937, eng #3130004 has frame #3B4." So, as you surmise, this would indicated that your engine number should indeed be 3110001.
Tom
Hello Everybody! Just want to "update" you and inform all of you helpful people about the status quo of the research to my 1936 Convertible.
I got answer from the GM Archieves and they sent me a copy of the factory sales report. And BINGO its my car! Now its prooved that this car was the first car produced of the series 70 in 1936.
Frame number is 3A 1, Engine Number was 3A 6, and official VIN is 311 0001. Body Number is 1.
Next important information is that this car was intended to be sent to Europe to the 1936 Paris Auto Show! It was shipped via Antwerp/Belgium to Europe and equipped with a lot of extra parts that were only used on Export Models. Presented among a bunch of extraordinary cars like a Mercedes Kompressor Model, Bugatti, Maybach etc etc...
Now I know the color of wheels, body and tan leather interieur.
Fascinating!
The "Romanian King Theory" I guess can be left behind now, but maybe we can find out who bought this car at the Paris Show or however it came to romania.
On the other hand Tom Mcdonald researched in romania and found a person who knows a lot of the car and also has pictures of her taking part at vintage carshows in romania. Great informations there!
Now I am getting in trouble more and more because as you all know I wanted to save her by making a custom car out of it - BUT the more I know about her and the fact that its the FIRST car built and went to the Paris Car Show - I must confess this one has to be restored back to its original beauty - its nearly impossible to "cut down" this extraordinary one!
As I dont have the patience, time and money to restore it back to original I am thinking about selling it to someone who is willing to do so. Maybe I am not the right person to own this true piece of history. So - If someone might be out there, willing and able to save her, contact me.
Well... I never was so full of doubts about a car than with this one. : )
Again thanks to everybody who was - and still is - helping me to discover the cars history with all this enthusiasm and energy!
Kind Regards!
Godi
Ps: Attached the copy of the sales report from 1936 for you.
Hello Godi,
Just had to send you this photo of what to do when you get tired of the restoration costs.
Ty Stinson
CLC22330
:) Very good idea! :)
Thats why they are so rare today!
Thanks for this document.
Godi
working from somewhat faded memory, I think the serial number is stamped in two different places on the frame, one where it is visible with the body installed, and a second time underneath the body somewhere - as I said, this is a fading memory, I pulled the body off my series 60 a long time ago and sand blasted the frame, but at that time I didn't take many photos.
Somewhere back in Godis thread this has already been found Bill, The second number is on the frame visible through the battery opening under the seat.
Dear Godi,
What I have found in my old papers certainly can interest you. I was collecting all what I can find about US cars and got them in a record, it was very intensively before my marriage in 1979, and not so much during the 10 next years because my wife does not like them like me. So the doc I am annexing comes from a magazine where I cut what is interesting US cars: it is a meeting in Romania where you can see a Cadillac like yours, it has a plate on it...
Look, enjoy and comment,
Philippe L. Hulet de Limal
Florenville
Belgium
Not a Cadillac 'LIKE' Godies car Phillippe. but the very same car, academic now as the car has been long since sold.
Have you seen the age of this thread?
When I was gone to see the Keyaerts sisters in their castle of Planchoury for the inauguration of the Cadillac museum in honor of their father, I already had it. I think the ad was issued in the years near 1985.
Steve / Bob - is there another chassis number stamped further along the frame as there are on other years such as 1939? Ross.
Yes Ross, on the top of the chassis rail viewed through the battery box hole under the seat.
Quote from: S Passmore on February 26, 2014, 06:25:39 PM
Not a Cadillac 'LIKE' Godies car Phillippe. but the very same car, academic now as the car has been long since sold.
Have you seen the age of this thread?
Any idea where the car is now, Steve? What a great story/thread - I really enjoyed following the story as it unfolded! Grant
The car was sold to someone else in Germany Grant, Godi passed on my name to the new owner and told him that I have an engine for the 36, plus I told him when a decent parts car came up on ebay and Godi passed that on but there was no response, so we can only assume it will be rodded with all modern running gear.
Hello Everybody, I am still here. :)
The car is sold to a very good friend of mine in Austria. This guy is a cadillac freak and owns a few rare cadilac cars such as a 1930 Coupe etc. I believe he is the right one and - some day - get her back on the road. You were all so helpfull finding out something about the car and it is still thrilling and exciting for me to be close to such an extraordinary car. Meanwhile another friend told us he has seen this car many years ago beeing part of a collection from a wellknown and excentric person !
So the cars history is beeing put together piece by piece like a puzzle!
Kind regards to everyone.
Godi
Be great to see the car returned to it's former glory - at least as much as it can be, anyway. Here's hoping! Grant