Hello All,
My name is Carl Crittenden, I am the proud owner of a 61 Fleetwood named Phyllis. In all honesty I wanted a Buick. Being from Flint most of my family worked at Buick City. I thought a mid 50s Buick would be great. But while searching on Craigslist one day I came across this Cadillac and fell in love.
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The car was found in the basement of a barn south of lansing. It had been parked since 1976. The deal was I had to remove it. We had to cut down a section of trees that had grown in the old driveway to the basement. The barn was falling over so they had put support beams in the door opening to shore it up. this made the opening only 1 3/4 inch wider then the car. Tight fit coming out. Covered in dirt this car is actually blue.
Cleaned up and far away it looks pretty nice. But this was deceiving. It is covered in surface rust and had a total of 27 rust holes that needed to be fixed. Two doors needed replaced and half of a rocker.
I tried I honestly tried to get this engine to turn over. But it was locked solid. When you see later how much rust I blew out of it it makes perfect sense that it wasnt going anywhere.
Because I could not rotate the engine I could not access all of the bolts to separate the transmission. So I had to pull the engine and trans together. I then unbolted all of the pistons from the crank to be able to rotate the crank and access trans bolts.
Stripping makes it look like there is alot of progress. But not really. This is the free part. Stripping a Car the right way or the wrong way will get you the same result. But if done wrong will leave you with no good path to reassemble. Thousands of pictures and hundreds of labeled bags of parts.
I love the rotisserie but it is a large tool that only has one purpose. The good thing is the used selling price is only a couple of hundred less then new. So it holds its value when I need to unload it.
It took a while to be ready for blasting, and weather cooperating. But I did this on the day of my birthday. A little present to myself.
Wow, that's a LOT of work! Nice job.
Did you lay the plywood down in your 'blasting cabinet' so you could sweep up the sand and reload the blaster hopper? Just curious.
Yes. It was 600 pounds of silica sand that I bought. Also the boards helped to roll the rotisserie across the lawn.
I started with the frame. all new suspension.
My posts are not going through. I have tried my brakes one now 5 times.
Lets try Body work. I am not very good yet. But there is plenty to practice on.
Body
I had to replace one door from a series 62 for my series 60 door. To do this I had to cut out a section of the inner door panel and transfer from my old door.
Carl:
Welcome. You will find some familiar names here, and lots of good information!
My goal is to restore my interior myself. I built my own trim shop set up and am slowly working through all of the pieces to understand them.
There appeared to be two different colors to the painted interior. A green blue color on the cast parts and a light blue on the steel parts. I think that the cast parts paint discolored. I found a section of paint under the shifter ring that was not discolored. So it is all going to be painted with the light blue.
Interior
Hi Carl,
I am really happy to have you here. Great story and great pictures.
Thank you.
Welcome Carl,
That is really a great story on the car. A true barn find.
How long have you been working on it now? That's a lot work for a whole crew, let alone one man.
I'm in the middle of doing mine too, ( a '56 ), but I'm not nearly as far along as you are.
Keep up the good work and best of luck with it.
Rick
I have been working on it for 6 years. But I had to take the last year and a half off from the car to work on my barn. I thought I had a roof leak over my car that rusted my hood fender and a section of my firewall. But when I tore into it it was not a roof leak. It was racoons urine dripping down through my insulation panels. I gutted the barn, sealed it up, all new electrical, 6 inch wall insulation, 14 inch attic insulation, gas furnace, and I beam for a track lift. I still need a new concrete floor new doors and finish the interior walls.
Quote from: Clewisiii on January 21, 2020, 01:07:16 PM
..... I thought I had a roof leak over my car that rusted my hood fender and a section of my firewall. But when I tore into it it was not a roof leak. It was racoons urine dripping down through my insulation panels. ....
G'day Carl,
Boy, and I thought seagull poop was bad.
The Critters must have known you would be on their side, seeing as your name is Critte.n.den ;)
Bruce. >:D
Seats Continued
Dash paint
I still have thousands to spend to upgrade my work space. But I know I already have what could be considered dream conditions.
Never again will those racoons mess on my car.
I talked to the machine shop today. I will drop my engine off in two weeks. 7 weeks after that I will need to bring in my water pump, starter, fly wheel, carb, motor mounts, and exhaust manifolds. Then they will be able to run the motor on the Dyno.
I started reassembling my engine today to verify that I had everything. I took my water pump off before I started taking pictures. So it took me a minute to figure out all of those bolt locations. My driver side exhaust manifold was cracked so I will need to find another. I will have to check my parts car. I plan to send the water and fuel pump to Arthur Gould. Does anyone have a recommendation for the carb. Or does anyone have a good Driver exhaust manifold for 61 they would sell. It is winter so it might be a pain digging into the parts car out in the yard.
I am still missing 1 head bolt. 1 oil pan bolt, and a few that broke while removing. I still have another motor so I should be able to scavenge a few bolts here and there.
Nice workshop you have, thanks maybe to those little animals!
I suppose you are saving what will soon disappear as the other forum will close. You know, I'm comfortable here too!
Hello Carl, great that your here, always look forward to your post on your progress on the "61 Fleetwood" on the other forum, as there, great knowledge here, and experience! Which is an understatement!! As there, I look forward to your post and progress on "Phyllis"
Joe
Carl, Super job, what an inspiration. It's hard enough to do the work let alone posting your progress and great pictures. I'm going to stay tuned in. Harry
A partial order of my bumper parts came in. There is one more box stuck in Nebraska and another in Illinois. These are not show parts. But a lot better then driver. The imperfections that I found could not be picked up by my camera.
"Does anyone have a recommendation for the carb. "
I used Daytona Parts company and am still happy with the function 9 years later. Doing it again I would have them do the rebuild but not opt for the full restoration service.
https://daytonaparts.com/
(386) 427-7108
1191 Turnbull Bay Rd, New Smyrna Beach, FL 32168
Quote from: 6caddy2 on January 25, 2020, 09:55:14 AM
Hello Carl, great that your here, always look forward to your post on your progress on the "61 Fleetwood" on the other forum, as there, great knowledge here, and experience! Which is an understatement!! As there, I look forward to your post and progress on "Phyllis"
Joe
I am with Joe! Enjoying your posts.Dave
Rare color "York Blue" - nice to see for a change. Best of luck with the restoration.
Great progress so far! I love the upholstery work. Interior work is one of the things I really, really enjoy.
Box 2 of bumpers. I will need to paint the rear inserts.
The bumpers all together. They look great. But there was some shipping damage. One of the corners of the large rear center was chipped. It broke through the box.
I don't know how much to complain about it. There is no real solution other then to replated the entire piece. But I also do not want to be a jerk or ship this back to Washington. I have asked the seller if he has a proposed solution. I think I will start there.
He played the aluminum surrounds. Which I do not have a problem with. But one of the pieces must have been in shadow to the anode. The copper coat is visible through the nickel.
If I say there is damage I guess I have to show the damage.
My inventory of the rest of the chrome I need. Only a few of these are usable to me. But these are the hard to find items. I will need to have mine replated. This is not all of it either. I have not fully disassembled my doors and this does not include the chrome window frames.
I estimate $50 to $700 each piece for replaying here.
Quote from: Clewisiii on January 28, 2020, 05:03:53 PM
But one of the pieces must have been in shadow to the anode. The copper coat is visible through the nickel.
It's always difficult to have chrome at an inner surface. Usually an specific electrode is needed. Anyway, chrome is a difficult product: when I let chrome the grille from my 1:12 scale Mark II, the man said that it will probably not be good. Indeed, it was the case as grilles in general are difficult to plate. When I asked about nickel plating for that grille, he said that it's absolutely not a problem except that the "color" will not be the same. The chrome has a blue taint, nickel is towards yellow.
Arthur Gould turned around my water and fuel pump in one and a half days. Total cost plus shipping back to me was $276.
My water and fuel pump are back. I hope to drop off the engine for rebuild next week.
Before it can be put on the Dyno I need a few more things. The carb is being worked on. But I need the driver exhaust manifold. I have two that are cracked. And one on my parts car that will be slot of work before I can check to see if it is good.
Carl, did you ever get the engine unstuck? James
I completely tore it apart. I had to hammer out each piston. I am finally taking the block and two sets of heads to the machine shop Saturday to see what can be done.
Carl--- I owned a 61 Cadillac convertible, and as a young man, and I was not a mature driver. Purchased in '56 and lasted until '72. That engine and transmission, as well as the suspension endured a lot of post adolescent punishment, so I attest to the '61's durability --- rust was a problem, especially in the head light "eye lids" and I had several issues with chassis welds breaking-- but I was far from careful. I hope you have good news about the mechanicals--- how long did you say the car was left standing? James
Carl if you can't find a manifold opening the crack depending on where it is and filling it with a modern day epoxy would work. There was a way to fix the crack. First you drill a hole at one end of the crack. Thread and install a bolt. Drill the next hole so it overlaps the first hole and bolt. Thread and install another bolt and so on until the crack is done. I don't remember what type of bolt was used, matching expantion and contraction. A manufacturer can probably tell you.
Good luck with your project. Would love to do that to mine but not enough room or money. And i'd hate to not be able to drive it for that length of time! lol
I am still collecting the smalls for chrome reproduction parts. Again I want to collect everything before I go in for paint. I am a little worried as a few of these reproduction parts are getting harder to find. For the past year I have not seen the fender spear bezels. They use to be available.
In the mail today was another manifold. The guy who sold me the last one that I found a hole in, sent me a replacement. It looks great. Notice my original with the bad cracks. This was an early build and cracked in this bend. Notice the other two. They added a fillet in the casting to strengthen this area.
All, I have a question. Now that I have my manifold, and my Carb is in process, the only thing I need before the dyno is the distributor. I want to rebuild my distributor and add a pertronix ignition under the cap.
But for the time being I will need to have something until I rebuild mine. I have been thinking about purchasing this billet aluminum HEI distributor. It is cheap enough for temporary use. Any thoughts or problems with this approach. I have delayed working on mine because I have to drill out the pin holding on the gear.
Current distributor
I have been looking for and did find a 1961 fabric book. But I am a little disappointed. I wanted a Detroit book. This is another brand. I already knew my fabric was number 187. But I wanted to know what the vinyl and leather colors were. The fabrics are separated per vehicle. But every vinyl is lumped together. No leather shown. I am still happy to have the book. But I a m still going to look for the other.
Hi Carl,
You might consider asking the club members about the relative durability of the various soft goods by model years. I owned 2 '6l's during the mid and late 1960's, and I was disappointed about the materials in that they did not wear well or clean up well. Attempts at using liquid furniture cleaning detergents were not successful in my experience. I think asking for folks to provide you with their experiences may cause you to look at "other years." However, if you're looking toward authenticity, well then you go with what you can get, and hope that the new materials are produced with a longer life expectancy. As always, I look forward to you narratives and pictures. Happy day, James
This would be the bible for you to have. My wife got it for me for Christmas in 2013 (I'm keeping the book). Keep an eye out, one comes out of the woodwork every few years or so.
Ok quick question. The machine shop will dyno my engine after the rebuild. He asked me to bring in my starter and flywheel for that. But the flywheel is part of the fluid coupling. I think I will need to bring in the complete trans for the dyno.
Does anyone have an opinion or knowledge on this.
Dan,
What would be the proper name of that book. The 61 Cadillac Data Book is different.
Quote from: Clewisiii on February 13, 2020, 09:50:01 PM
Ok quick question. The machine shop will dyno my engine after the rebuild. He asked me to bring in my starter and flywheel for that. But the flywheel is part of the fluid coupling. I think I will need to bring in the complete trans for the dyno.
Unless to fabricate a device replicating the flywheel housing, I don't see another solution.
Yes, that is correct, the spline at the end of the crankshaft fits into the flex plate that is bolted on to the flywheel. By the way, carefully check the "ears" that form the mechanical connection points and have bolts that attach the flex plate. My '61 convertible had several broken, and it caused a shake and rattle when under torque... the splits on the ears are fairly easy to discern once you inspect carefully. Certainly, a dyno test can be done with the car assembled using the rear wheels, true? If the rebuilder doesn't have the machine to do it, it may be wise to have the test done somewhere else upon completion with a representative of the rebuilder in attendance to ensure that all is well. Hope this helps, James
Quote from: Clewisiii on February 13, 2020, 09:53:28 PM
Dan,
What would be the proper name of that book. The 61 Cadillac Data Book is different.
It is the 1961 Fleetwood upholstery selection guide.
Well my engine is finally at the machine shop. It will probably be a couple of months till it is finished. My carb is still at the shop. I should call for an update.
I think I will also be able to get the trans done in the next 4 months. The rear end was done a while ago. So that will leave the drive shaft as the last piece I need for the drive train.
I had been collecting these medallions to try to pick my best set. Well I just broke down and bought a reproduction set.
I had given myself a $5,000 per year budget for working on my car. With the engine rebuild and chrome bumpers I have already doubled that for the year and it is only February.
But I am going to still work on smalls. I sent my inside rear view mirror to The Mirror Lady. At $300 it is not that bad.
I also bought reproduction side mirrors. And interior handles.
The other smalls I would like to work on when I get the chance.
Exterior Handles $300
Dash restoration. Just Dashes $1500
Radiator ?
Maybe trans and drive shaft this year. It would be nice to have the drive train done.
I understand that and gave up on pushing the Fleetwood coating issue. It was not worth the fight to me.
Quote from: StevenTuck on February 27, 2020, 08:30:49 AM
I discovered that Lincoln used the same mirror through 1966. The mounting bracket was different but the mirror was the same.
They are not really easier to find!
The hoist for my garage came in. It looks great. 1 ton limit. Wireless remote controls lift up and down. And side to side travel along the beam.
But it is a hundred pounds. And I have to lift it 11 feet in the air and slide the drive wheels onto the beam tight to the ceiling. Not gonna be easy. So I ask for help and start getting things ready.
I set up some ladders and unbolted my end stop and festoon power cable system.
Then this stares me in the face. There is only a 2.5 inch gap between the mounting nuts and the beam lip. What is the drive wheel size.
4 inches. Dang. The drive trolly said how wide the beam needed to be. But not height. I need to mount a new taller 12ft beam to my ceiling. And that was not easy at all to get up there.
Bad luck! I hope that your ceiling can withstand the load!
There is a 2 inch steel pipe spanning seven trusses at a joint. Then there are axle hangers on them coming down through the ceiling to attach the I beam. To protect the integrity of the trusses I did not want any bolt holes in the actual truss. I should be fine for what I am doing.
The carb is back.
Who did the carb price and turn around time?
1month. $450 for plating parts rebuild and shipping. I will get back to you on who.
Custom Rebuilt Carbs
And my hoist is up. Works well. I need to add an additional hard stop to prevent it from hitting a ceiling fan. All of this garage remodel was due to the fact that my building conditions were actually causing damage to the car. The next big thing is replacing the erroding floor. It causes so much dust that it hurts my paint coats.
One other addition after my floor is poured is this paint spray booth I bought from work. It is an open face bench top model. It will help to keep overspray from small to medium parts traveling around my work area and landing on stuff. I already have some spray glue overspray that got on a door.
I pulled the band-aid and ordered my fabric, vinyl, and leather from SMS today. I will hope for the best in shipping. But if it is 6 months I am ok with that. I did ask for a pre-sewn headliner so that might slow it down.
Did you purchase trunk carpet from them as well? My '61 convertible could use some new trunk carpet, but I've read some decidedly mixed reviews from SMS.
I bought 6 yards of Interior Fabric, 5 yards of Vinyl, 4 yards of Trunk Liner, 1 Sewn Headliner, 2 yards of Headliner material. One note on the Fleetwood rear seat there is a border vinyl along the carpet that is a darker color then the standard listed vinyl. I sent them a picture of this and asked to purchase 2/3rds of a yard. Even if the color is not exact it is ok. The seat bottom and the door panel lower section by carpet are the only areas with that color.
Here is the other vinyl not regularly listed in the book. The rear seat lower and trim edge around the door panel carpet.
Quote from: Andrew Trout on April 23, 2020, 04:47:39 PM
Did you purchase trunk carpet from them as well? My '61 convertible could use some new trunk carpet, but I've read some decidedly mixed reviews from SMS.
Yep.
I just ordered a complete trunk kit from Jenkins Interiors
Well I do not have much in front of me to work on, so I thought I would just give a status update.
Engine
The engine is still at the machine shop. It has been 2.5 months. But due to the current situation I am not going to give them a hard time. I am not in a hurry. I called to ask if they needed another payment yet. I do not know if they have ordered the rebuild parts yet. But no answer yet.
Mirror
I got my review mirror back from the mirror lady. I already purchased a reproduction driver and passenger mirror. Sometime before painting I will need to drill the passenger door for the mirror. I have a replacement vanity mirror I bought from McVeys.
Dash
Just dashes called me yesterday and said they would pay for the shipping on my dash after giving me a restoration quote a while ago. So I shipped the dash and the Pillar lower filler pieces to them yesterday. I don't know how long that will take. But I do not care.
Fabric
I ordered the fabric, vinyl, leather, headliner, and trunk fabric from SMS 3 weeks ago. If it is 6 months I am ok with it. I still think I will need to call them with reminders or updates. I am wondering if monthly is appropriate. To begin with I may give them two months.
Seats
I had already made new foam pieces for the seating. But I am second guessing it. The original foam is latex foam. I made my replacements with high density foam. But I think I will redo them with latex foam. I will order from the Foam Factory here in Michigan. I will do it some time in the next few months.
Interior Boards
I will need to order the boards to replace the door panels, rear parcel shelf, sail panels, and lower kick panels. The original is a hard cardboard like material. Most of the upholstery guys I talk to suggest I use 1/8 inch thick ABS plastic panels for the replacement. No need to worry about water. I think I will buy both and test them and pick one.
With all of this interior work going on I started to get quotes for the chrome. Right now I think I will work with Reds Parts Attic from Texas. Another thought is on my steering wheel. I do not want to spend the money yet. But once I can work through the irons I currently have in the fire, I may start shopping around for that restoration.
Quote from: Clewisiii on May 05, 2020, 09:11:53 PM
Dash
Just dashes called me yesterday and said they would pay for the shipping on my dash after giving me a restoration quote a while ago. So I shipped the dash and the Pillar lower filler pieces to them yesterday.
That's unusual! Maybe they don't have enough orders for the moment...
I’m enjoying watching your restoration. York Blue is a rare color. I have a York Blue 1962 Coupe Deville and I haven’t run across another vintage Caddy in that color for years.
JohnE
Thank You,
From the 61 62 vehicle registry on the old 61-62 forum, 2 percent of the registered cars were york blue. But I have only seen 1 or 2 vehicles in that color since then.
My machine shop called. The 61's engine will be ready at the end of the month.
I will actually give them longer if necessary. These are weird times.
Total price for machining all new parts and assembly $4,600.
Just dashes received my dash on Monday. They said give them a week to give a final quote.
The original quote was for $1,500, but since they paid for shipping I am sure they will pad the final quote to reflect that.
Engine done
Carb done
Waterpump done
Starter Done
Generator done
Fuel Pump done
Power steering pump and gear done
I need
Distributor
Heater Core
Radiator
Trans
With those complete I should be able to test fire and run my engine.
I will still need the complete AC system restored. I do not think I will do that till next year.
And I need to figure out all the wiring and vacuum tubes. Mice or squirrels had eaten all the wiring and vacuum tubes in my Fleetwood. I bought my Series 62 parts car to use as a reference for all of the reassembly.
I will need to start asking for help or advice on the distributor. I want to convert to pertronix, but I still need to disassemble my current distributor, clean it and put back together. But I am not sure of the process in doing that. I know the pin holding on the gear needs to be drilled then tapped out. But what do I need to reassemble it?
A suggestion for the radiator; assuming your tanks are good, have them soldered to a modern 4-row core. It will look totally original, but make a huge difference in cooling. I did this on my ‘60, and even on a hot day with a/c on, I’m barely hitting the first mark on the temp gauge.
Yes I still need to find someone local who can do it. I have not really looked for anyone yet.
Carl I found an old timer with a distributor machine, who rebuilt 2 distributors for me. One he did with Pertronix, the other I asked that he leave it points and condenser, as a back up. I also brought him some spare parts, which he needed. Long story short he had to remove the pin as you described. What he did to replace the pin, was to press in an appropriately sized, (length and diameter), roll pin. I was advised that was a viable way to re-assemble that piece. Clay/Lexi
Thank You.
I think the distributor needs to be my next step. I will talk to the machine shop to see if they have a recommendation.
My Dad and I had our distributor rebuilt by Fusick. The cost was $279 back in 2014.
Another option for the dash pad that I did on mine was to recover in leather.
My upholstery shop recovered it with a very thin skin of leather in one piece. No stitched seam along the forward edge like on so many others. My original pad was I not cracked or damaged so the thin leather skin was able to lay smooth.
The end caps at the base of the a-pillars I had redyed.
The work was done back in early 1999 and still looks good....
My dash was perfect. Then a broom fell on it. And cracked a small section of the skin. I was sad. Then resigned to the fact that it needed to be done. At least I will get new foam out of it to.
Carl, this is 6caddy2 from the old 61/62 forum, I've followed your work since day 1!!! and love it, it is awesome to see all the progress that you have accomplished on the Fleetwood/ to your garage that houses that fine machine your restoring!!!
1-Radiator and heater core, as suggested I would have the radiator turned into a 4 core, your heater core is just a small radiator, any radiator shop worth there weight will be able to rerod and core that for you and save you $$$, had mine done locally 5years ago and not one leak!!
2- distributor, here is a link to what I'm running without one problem, not one, she fires right up, can't get off the key fast enough!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CADILLAC-1949-1962-390-365-331-BLACK-SMALL-FEMALE-CAP-ELECTRONIC-HEI-Distributor/324140490592?fits=Make%3ACadillac&hash=item4b78475f60:g:EjsAAOSwuhhenGQp
I did a complete nut and bolt all factory restoration to my caddy, including rebuilding the distributor, and you will need to go to a machine shop as I did, but no matter how long they have been in business and how well there reputation is, they will only be as good as the parts they can get, or you if you chose to rebuild yours, as I did, after 3GN awards under her belt and the car was driven to all of them, over 5,000 miles total, the rolled pin for the gear became lose and gave me fits, this is when I changed to the afore mentioned distributor, I fully understand and respect the "every nut and bolt all original" work that is put into our cars, but I want to drive mine everyday and I do w/ said distributor.
3-transmission, well you know and should remember from the other site how these trannys are and can be. You'll have to find a good shop that has a person with the knowledge of the internal problems with it and is knowledgeable in how to address them.
As far as the A/C system, I went with OLD AIR for a perfect restoration of my factory system 5yrs ago and still blows ice cold, and I live in the southwest desert area with "temps' over a 100 degrees range.
Just my 2cents worth, I love following your thread on your Fleetwood and your work is flawless!!! can't wait to see more of it!!
Joe
6caddy2 can you give me an idea what you paid for your restoration of the AC. And what parts you sent them. I know it would be different now but an idea would be good.
I went through and crated my AC parts last night and this morning.
Sorry for the delay Carl, I sent them the compressor, all lines, the STV, the dryer, the evaporator and the condenser. The compressor got a complete rebuild, all lines where redone with new rubber and the correct fittings as per model year and then pressure tested, the suction throttling valve was rebuilt as well as it's vacuum diaphragm, the evap was in great shape, it was hot tanked and pressure tested as well, my condenser was bad and needed to be hot tanked, rebrazed and it was pressure tested as well. you have the option to run r12 or r134a, I went r12 and works great, I have a gentlemen here who did my evacuation of the system once I installed it and added the PAG oil and gave her a charge of r12 which is still going great!! The dryer I was informed at the 2018 GN was not correct, took the points hit and moved on. It was supplied by OLD AIR and I can't fault them for this as this was all they had at the time and I was in a hurry to make the 2018 GN, that dryer is still in the system and it looks so close to factory I'm not going to mess with it.
I believe that I paid right around $750.00usd and that was with shipping. there work is second to none, it works so well, they really did a good job, plus they will replace the sticker on top of compressor for you and for a little more they will stamp the compressor with the "CAD OK"stamp in the correct yellow ink.
Thank You. Even at twice that price it is reasonable. I may have that done sooner then I thought.
Yes, I thought the pricing was spot on, they said 4 to 6 weeks lead time, but I think turn around time was 5 weeks, which I thought was great considering all that is involved in the process.
Just Dashes contacted me. My price for the dash and both end pieces will be just over $1500. I will need to call them tomorrow to pay. They said about 6 week lead time.
Sorry Pics or it didnt happen.
Tech Support!!!!!
Does anyone know why this thread is posting so wide.
I have sent a message to see if we can get back to some sort of "Normality"
Bruce. >:D
It was the eBay link in Joe's post. I used a shorter version of it and modified his post.
Text doesn't wrap properly on hyperlinks, so when they get long, the text area gets wider and doesn't fit on the screen.
The Dash restoration is paid for. But they will not start the restoration until July. Then 6 weeks after that.
Fun observation. With all the work I have done on my shop it is now better insulated then my house. My shop does not even have interior walls yet but it is 66 and my house is 72 degrees.
It is great to have a nice place to work. I still need to get the new concrete floor this year. Due to all the rain in Michigan I had about half an inch of standing water across my floor. I actually was vacuuming up worms underneath my car. The new floor will be 4 inches higher so it should not be an issue anymore
Well I waited two months before I asked SMS for a status on my order. I think that was a generous amount of time before asking for the first time for an update.
I pick up my engine next week. I need to find the time between my work schedule.
My engine is finally home. And my hoist works great.
I have to go through the bolts that they used. I bagged and labeled every bolt with it's location. But they did not follow it. The water pump, headbolts, and thermostats bolts all holy down engine accessories and brackets. They did not put these parts on so they used whatever bolt would fit in there place.
SMS says my material order will ship out at the end of July. I do not believe them but I am not worried.
I need to start thinking about trans and drive shaft. I need a new drive shaft. Mine is very corroded. The trans might be great but I want it professionally gone through for safety sake.
Looks good Carl. I was following your journey on the old 61/62 page, glad you moved this thread here.
I am happy to be able to continue my restoration threads. It keeps me interested and helps to organize my planning.
I do miss the specificity of the 61 62 forum. It was great to see people working through the same issues right along side me. I was happy to give help whenever I could. And it helped others since my car was in pieces for 4 years. I could get to and photograph everything.
Carl,
Carefully check your flex plate that mounts on the fly wheel. I drove a 61 convertible for nearly a decade back in the 60-70's, and the car developed a weird vibration on torque loads... a tech found the flex plate "ears" had snapped in multiple places. His take was that the design created a weakness-- could be that as a young man, I more than tested its limits!. (he "fixed" the problem by spot wielding the breaks in place?). Thanks for posting your progress...it's engaging content, and always enjoyable to follow along. Happy day, James
I just realized that I never explained in this thread why my car was named Phyllis.
It was originally purchased by an older couple. They passed away leaving it to their daughter who was also an older widow at the time. She parked the car in the basement of her barn and there it sat. She eventually passed away and her estate was in probate for quite a while. Her son was finally able to sell the house and this was one of the last things on the property he had to sell. I did overpay for what it was but I do not care about that any more.
And I still did not explain. Phyllis was his mother's name.
Ok I have a problem. I was cleaning parts for reassembly and found that the under Carb "Spacer" is cracked.
What is the proper name for this part?
Are they available?
Is this repairable, I don't think so. I don't want to just JB weld it.
The crack in that position will not affect the running of the engine, as it hasn't compromised the actual Air/Fuel operation of the Carby.
If you cannot find a replacement, an Exhaust Cement will seal the exhaust gases from escaping as they pass over under the Carby base.
The part is called an Insulator.
Bruce. >:D
Thank You.
I am getting excited. I want to drive the car to the body shop for finishing and paint. It may still be a year till then. But it is very close in my mind.
First coat of engine paint tommorow. Then reassembly and finish coat.
I had to order a new complete engine gasket kit. Prepping for paint and some other reassembly, I had to destroy the valve cover, intake, water pump, and oil pan gaskets.
The new gasket set will be in in a week. So I will not be able to finish paint until then.
So I take it that you aren't going for the "Factory" look on your rebuild?
At the Factory, the engine was painted with everything that you took off, on it. Maybe not everything, but the engine was a complete unit from carby base to sump plug, and Exhaust Manifold/head flange to the opposite side.
Bruce. >:D
Yes the problem with painting it assembled means you do not get paint behind the water pump or between intake and valley cover. I did not want to leave those primer or raw.
So after assembly I am top coating it to cover all the bolts etc.
One quick point or question on authenticity. The power steering pulley. I have heard people argue both ways to paint it engine blue or black. I think it should be black to match the power steering pump. In production it would have to of been painted separately since it attaches to the black pump and not the blue engine bracket.
FWIW, on my original ‘61, the pulley is blue.
I have a question about the thermostat. I bought a new old stock thermostat that said it fit 61 in the listing. But the box said 56 to 58.
When I install it slightly hits a formation in the water pump that partially offsets the thermostat. Does anyone know if this is correct. Or should I just buy one from advance of rock auto.
I have never seen such a thermostat for 1956-58. I'm wondering if the box was mislabeled...The illustration in the 1956 shop manual is not very sharp, but the thermostat is not looking like the one you have.
By looking at the 1928 to 1936 parts list, the 1934 La Salle has a very similar thermostat!
Carl, You're right on target to be concerned: if the physical geometry is "off," and it is off set and, apparently, not resting in place, you should not experiment with using it, for once you torque it in place, the frame of the mechanism will likely bend it, and negatively affect its proper function. Hope this helps, James
All,. I have a gasket question. I received extra gaskets from my engine rebuild. I have identified most and separated out parts I need and do not need. Some I assume they got gaskets from multiple kits so extras.
But the ones in the picture below I cannot identify. Can you help. Was there a gasket under the distributor they may have missed?
I think the o rings are for valve seals. The big cork casket look like the one for the road draft tube on the valley pan.
Thanks for the thoughts. The draft tube was smaller. I assume the valve seals was one of the extra items. I.e. they came with the valves and with the engine gasket kit. I hope.
Sorry I hate saying anything withought adding a picture.
Is the 3 hole gasket for the oil fill tube?
No the oil fill neck has an offset base for the fuel pump rod to pass through.
There are a few gaskets I have identified as not needing. They included stuff for Tricarb system. I was wondering if any of these are for California emissions features on later versions
If the one with the three holes is very thin, then it could be the oil pump gasket, or the oil pickup gasket. I know that Cadillac changed the oil pump pickups after 1960 and went from the swinging pickup to the fixed.
Bruce. >:D
The paper gasket is for the oil pump to the block. The small felt washer is for the swinging oil pickup. As 1956 to 1962 engines are very similar with some changes (oil filter for example), it's more economical for the manufacturer to add some gaskets than to make kits for specific year(s).
Thank you all for your help and thoughts on this. I was going to go crazy in fear that something was not put back together correctly. I have another complete gasket set arriving some time today. Hopefully i can seal everything back up for the "final time" tonight.
The gasket set came in. I put the intake and water pump back on. I still need to redo the valve cover and oil pan gaskets.
But in the mean time I just wanted to put some pieces on to see the direction I am headed in. The nice thing is that the last show stopper expense is the paint. Everything else is a bunch of $50 or $300 bills. Small enough sums to chip away over time.
My air cleaner was dented at the inlet. I may look for a better condition on one of those.
A little bit of body filler and paint and that air cleaner would look great. I wouldn't bother trying to replace it.
Yes. I am going to blast it again and try to fit a mandrel into the opening and hammer a little more.
SMS sent me a sample of the leather the made for my order. It is a great match when compared to the selvage edge of my original leather and the painted metal and fabric.
They have bought themselves two more months before I bug them again. It has been 3 months but in comparison to what some have said I think I am doing good.
That engine looks gorgeous. Nice to see things coming along. Clay/Lexi
In working through my car I am doing as much to build and expand my tools equipment and workshop.
I plan do do my interior myself. Still waiting on the material order from SMS. But I now have a LARGE commercial sewing machine for the decorative stitching. I figure I will play with it doing a few cars then might just sell it. It was a pain getting it into my basement. The machine itself weighs 200 pounds and runs on 220 and air.
I am finally getting a new concrete floor in my barn. The old concrete was terrible. It never properly cured when it was originally poured. It was always erroding and dusty. Caused problems trying to paint. Also it was to low to the ground. The barn flooded every spring. That moisture was causing rust on my cars body and other stored car parts. The new floor will be much better. I hope to get a chance to epoxy coat before winter.
Well Carl, you've got the 2 most important things covered in your garage, heater for those long winter nights, and the flat screen mounted and wired in! Those sewing machines will serve you well for many years to come! Can't wait for the photos on your interior work! Should be as good as your engine work and your attention to detail of it! always looking forward to your next post on your progress!
Joe
It is very nice having a smooth flat floor. When I get my car back in here I will be able to get a set of wheel dollies to maneuver it around. The surface was to craggy before.
I am finishing patching in some insulation. I hope to epoxy coat before winter.
That's a nice place to work!
My thoughts exactly Roger. Lovely garage. Clay/Lexi
I don't know if I got brave or stupid. But I tore into my driver door panel to start cleaning everything and making patterns. I need to buy some panel boards and some strip edging.
I emailed SMS yesterday. They told me that they were waiting for me to confirm my leather sample. I reminded them that I confirmed in July and provided them a photograph of their sample next to my original material. They said sorry about the miscommunication and that they would submit my leather order. I asked about all the other material in my order that they said in June would be shipping out by the end of that week. They said they would get back with me.
You see I am conflicted. On the one hand I want to disassemble and reassemble just one door at a time. That way I do not mix up any of these pieces.
However I am worried about laying out the cut pieces on the 5 yards of vinyl I will be receiving. So I want to make a paper pattern of every piece of vinyl and lay it completely out on the roll of vinyl to make sure I use the material wisely.
I will just need to package and label everything separately to keep everything straight.
I just received an email from UPS that Just Dashes has shipped out my restored dash and end pieces. Took 5 months but it is delivering in the exact time they told me. So I will not complain about that.
Happy to get that back and check out the restored color.
No way, I just got an email from UPS that a shipment from SMS is on the way. It says it is 25 pounds so I do not think it is my complete order. But I am excited either way.
Can I say it is an early Christmas gift if I paid $4000 in total for this stuff. But my Just Dashes order came in today and an order for SMS.
I will go over just dashes first then check all the SMS order.
The dash looks great. But it does have a more gritty texture compared to the original. They sent a touch up paint bottle with it.
The SMS order is a partial order. I received the fabric, vinyl, trim vinyl. I did not receive the trunk lining, sewn headliner or extra headliner material.
I ordered 5 yards of vinyl. I received 5.5. But that .5 had cuts in it and along half the rest piping strips had been cut off.
The half yard of trim vinyl is not the correct color. But I cannot fault them for that as there was no reference material for the order. I may use it or buy something else locally.
I ordered 6 yards of fabric. This was one cut of 4.5 yards and two cuts of 1 yard. Some cuts in material and one with a hole in the center.
The pleats run length wise of the roll. There are 21 pleats in the rolled fabric. The seat bottoms have 24 pleats. So I will need to splice. But this is not SMSs issue.
All in all I am happy to have this material and start seriously planning how I am going to use it. But it is still hard to believe that that 3 pieces of cut fabric are $1000
So the one year goal is to use all of this stuff to redo my factory interior. And the cherry on top goal is to use the leftover material. Fabric, vinyl, wood veneer and make a custom floor console to match the car. I may need to build a casting set up to make some custom chrome pieces to match the look of the door panels etc.
A little french stitch sewing practice. I am getting a lot better.
French seam looks awesome Carl!!! everything else seems to be in order, been a minute or 2 since the 61/62 site, looking great!
I am a little worried about my amount of material ordered for vinyl.
I ordered 5 yards. Here is the usage on two yards of that. The complete front seat. And one door.
I still need the complete rear seat, 3 doors. B pillars c pillars along rear seats. And all of the piping.
The good thing is the rear seat uses a lot less vinyl. But I am still a lot tighter then I would like. Because of these cut pattern lay outs, that is why I want to disassemble all door components and make patterns to check on the material before I cut a thing. This will also leave no room for error. So I may need to order 2 more yards for safety.
I counted up just over 1000 inches of piping for the car. This needs to be cut from the vinyl. I think I will need to order 2 more yards of material.
Well I decided to measure up and cut all the piping. Since it was straight pieces I did not need to plan where to cut them from. I did not account for the yardage of piping. So this makes me low on vinyl.
I tried laying out my patterns on what was left. And seeing if I had enough. If I do not make one mistake cutting or sewing I should have enough. But I do not know if I can count on that. I should buy another yard or two.
I am still working through finishing my new shop for my car. When I originally added this up a few years ago I came up with $17,000 for the remodel. I don't know if that is what I actually spent. But I don't want to add it up. I have the wall board for a third of it. Another $700 for the rest. I am working in stages. Next year will be a new insulated roll up door with windows. I finally have conditions that will not harm my car. No more water or moisture intrusion.
I have half of the walls complete. But I bought all of the 3/4 inch panels local to me so I will need to wait for a resupply.
But with my last two days of vacation I decided to clean and assemble the open face bench spray booth that I bought used. I know this is extravagant but I really want to keep a clean work space. I have blue paint all over my ceiling fans from when I painted my engine. I also have a layer on my tool boxes. I want to limit all of that for when my cars body work gets farther along.
After nearly 2 years I am back to working on the body work of the car. I had to completely rebuild the front lip of the hood. So now it is going to be a chore to get these compound curve body lines nice and straight.
You know, I fear I will need to sandblast a good portion of my car again.
The reason I spent all the money and time fixing up my shop was because the conditions were actually harming my car. A family of racoons were in the attic two years ago and their urine running down rusted the back of my hood, part of the firewall, and a fender. But because of the low level of the floor, the barn would flood in the spring. Near an inch of water would cover the floor when the snow melted. It then made the shop very humid, making matters worse.
Trying to work through it all on a spot basis may be to risky. I think the roof is all good, and the rear fenders. So basically the body past the firewall should be fine. But I need to do all the doors front fenders and hood.
I rented the equipment and blasted at home last time. I think I can use my small sand blaster to do the firewall. Then I can just take all the other parts to a shop and have them blasted one at a time.
Bad luck to have to do the work twice. Sandblasting can sometimes do more harm than good; I suppose you know that.
I keep the material cool so I have had no issues of warping. There is oil canning in my hood but something was left on the engine when someone closed the hood and stretched/dented the metal up. I have been working in to shrink the area. I was very successful doing this on the Fleetwoods roof. It has been harder on the hood.
You know the excitement you get when you stick your hand in your pocket and pull out cash you didn't know you had.
I was going through one of my bags and found another owners manual that I did not know I had. I remember buying the one. I was upset with the discoloration on the plastic sleeve.
I have no idea where I got the clean one from. You would think that would be something you remember.
I received my SMS order of leather today. I only ordered half a hyde. I worried that it would not be enough. And it won't be enough. But I am happy I only ordered a half hyde. This is the work quality of leather I have ever worked with. It feels weak in your hand. It is covered in wrinkles and loose break. I will not use this in my car. The red and blue image below shows the surface quality of this leather next to a red leather that I had on hand. Again they feel completely different.
At least the color is good. I will cut this up and send it out to several companies to see about color matching in a better quality leather.
All. To any who have a 1960 to 64 bench seat with the fold down armrest I have a question.
When I first got my car the driver arm rest was locked right up. It was out about 2 inches and stuck there. I was not actually able to get it open until I disassembled the seat.
I cleaned, oiled, and bent back the mechanism. The legs individually worked in my hands.
Well after a year and a half stand still on my seat structure I am back to reassembling the seat for a test fit and reminder of assembly steps. But I notice the armrest is locking up again now that it is in place.
I think the mechanism overtravels and gets locked. I do not have the foam on the armrest yet. Maybe that foam thickness will prevent the overtravel.
So my question is this a problem others have observed? What are your thoughts on the issue?
Not a problem I have observed. Armrests on my '61 are a little stiff, or less sloppy (probably from lack of use since its a low mileage car) compared to other Cadillacs of this vintage that I'm acquainted with. Both with my '60 and my former '59, the driver's armrest could sometimes bind slightly at first, which I've always thought was due to wear/excessive play in the mechanism. But a gentle tug upward/outward seems to take care of the problem.
Cleaning up all of my bagged seat pieces and polishing screws. I need to find some time in the next couple of weeks to stop by the paint store and have the seat trim matched. There is a nice clean spot under the side chrome bezel.
I polished all of my track cover buttons. Then realised I only have 13 of the 14. A few years ago I robbed the track covers off my parts car and gave them to a guy in germany. I think I sent him all the buttons as well. I will need to look to see if I missed one.
Good news. I ended up with five spare buttons from my parts car.
It's nice to have a parts car and the space for it!
It has helped in several ways. The major reason I bought the parts car was that it was an AC car and all the wires and vacuum tubes were still in the engine bay. Mine were all eaten away by rodents. So I wanted the parts car as a template for reassembly.
I have robbed a few unneeded parts and sent to others. I took off the power steering pump to rebuild, I took the glove box door after I dropped mine and dented the corner.
I paid $400 for the car in Lansing Michigan. But I paid $600 in total getting it home.
The only reason I mention the buttons specifically was due to someone's comment a few years ago that they were missing a couple of buttons. They contacted a salvage yard and they told him $75 for two buttons. He asked why so much. And the guy said it is $50 for me to walk out to the yard and get them.
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on November 21, 2020, 09:08:58 AM
It's nice to have a parts car and the space for it!
Too true.
The '71 Eldo I stripped back in 2008 is still supplying me with a bounty of parts, and also helping others.
Bruce. >:D
Carl,
I have been watching the restoration of Phyllis. I use to be on the 61-62 board until that was gone. Great to see you here and that you are still continuing the great restoration. I love your new shop. I did my garage floors similar.
Keep at it .. I enjoy watching your progress. I have a few parts off a 61 but not those buttons. Sorry.
CJ
So in trying to learn the skills and do as much on my restoration myself as possible, I have been planning out what types of tools and equipment I need.
The major thing for the interior is the correct sewing machines. The material itself would be difficult to sew with just a normal sewing machine. But you could make the attempt. But this situation would be a show stopper. The fabric material across the seats have blind pleats. The fabric is folded sewn folded sewn etc. You need to be able to fit at least half the length of the seat into the throat of the sewing machine. For some of the parts you can try to roll up and cram as much in the throat as possible. But for the back panel it is sewn to a solid hard board. That board is not flexible and half of it will need to fit in the machine.
I checked the board and at the center you can see where the fold changes from one side to the other. So I need 25" minimum inside the machine. Well as luck would have it since I started working on my interior I have managed to aquire a large commercial machine with 27" inside. This is all really looking like if will come together as long as I keep practicing my skill before I start cutting and using the material I got from SMS.
Carl,
An alternative is to sew the pleats as you plan on to a fabric backing then glue the fabric to the card board.
You're wise to practice on scrap material. The most important part of sewing is to be able to achieve straight lines and smooth curves. That might sound simple but slight twisting or movement of the fabric while sewing make variations in stitch orientation obvious. Your eyes are drawn to it immediately.
Ok now I have a debate. I decided since I was not going to use the leather from the SMS order there was no harm cutting it up for some test sewing. The only leather parts are the 2 inch borders and a small section of each arm rest.
Well I sewed up a bolster border and it looks great. Now I feel I should get over my fears and just use this leather. I could get over the wrinkles and scars. But I still feel this is not durable for my taste. For durability you need full or top grain leather. A cow hide can actually be split in. Multiple layers and each have there own use. I think this is bottom split grain leather. Normally used for suede and not as durable.
Well I will continue to debate with myself.
Looks good!
I reached out to SMS to order 2 more yards of vinyl. I already cut all the vinyl for piping. I will not cut more vinyl until I have those other two yards in front of me. I still fear that if I cut the wrong piece in the wrong location I will not be able to nest all of the cut pieces in the roll I currently have. I tried to recreate the half round foam for these bolster edges. It was not easy so I decided to reuse the original foam bands. I am going to steam them and glue on a new muslin backing.
Trying to put in a little more forward progress, I started to clean up the metal parts on the front door panel.
I did not have a lot of sand for my blaster so I focused on removing the rust and ignored blasting off the old glue.
I will need to make new foam pads for the armrest. I do have a denser foam for this. But the block length is just to small so I will need to go corner to corner. I will only be able to get two per block.
The old panel was covered with a thin cotton batting. I have a similar material but to thick. I may try and used some thin foam that I have. It will just be difficult to fit the curves.
It looks like I will be able to make two arm rest pads per block.
I cut this one down to slightly oversized. After it is glued to the armrest I will sand it down to final shape.
New armrest foam filled in. Now I just need to ponder the cotton liner.
My machine does not like sewing the windlace. It would not feed properly and kept binding. Actually broke a needle.
This was a test material and maybe this surface finish would not slide well. In any case I will need to take care and feed my actual material carefully.
Well there is 12 ft of windlace for the body side door openings.
I need to make over 100ft of piping for the seats and doors. I only have piping core in 3/16. I need to order a roll of 1/8th.
Pics for a friend.
Thanks Carl!! Very much Appreciated!!
Just a reminder, here are some of my as found pics.
After a ton of cleaning
It is always nice to look back at what one started with, as it brings the restorations/work done into perspective.
Bruce. >:D
Yes. Giving myself a little boost of encouragement. I have been pushing on several fronts to do as much as I can without spending more money this year. But I need to spend at least $300 on materials to continue on my interior restoration. I need panel boards and 20 point chip board. I don't need that much but minimum order quantities dictate how much I have to spend.
I try not to spend more then $5000 per year on my car. I have already trippled that this year.
One comment. Years ago when I first reached out to SMS for the interior materials they said they would redo my door panels for $250 a piece. I asked them about the metal parts that needed restoration and cleaning. They said they would not touch them. After opening these door panels I can tell you there is not a chance SMS would have stuck to the $250 price after seeing the condition of my doors. And if they did I would not be satisfied with what I got back.
My SMS order for my headliner and extra yardage came in today.
It looks correct. But I want to pull out my old headliner and verify the measurements.
They folded the headliner and left in some substantial wrinkles. I will assume that these will relax out. Most likely it will be two years until I use this headliner. I will roll up the material and wrap for storage.
Lays out perfectly over the old. I hate rolling out that old headliner. It required a lot of cleanup on my work table. I need to sandblast and paint the bows and transfer to the new headliner.
Ok I am changing something from the original. I am testing to see if I can sew up and recover a sun visor. The original is mainly headliner material but has a leading edge of vinyl. The original was sewn at the edge leaving the raw edge of vinyl. I tried that and it was very hard to keep it straight. I think I will roll and sew as a deck seam. I think it makes a cleaner look anyway. I will spend a day or so testing the stitch spacing and offsets and try to wrap one of these up.
Yes it is going to be this one.
I realize pulling this tight to the visor to perimeter sew will actually be tough. Have to edge stitch while also pulling out the wrinkles. The headliner material does not hold up to a heat gun so I cannot heat out the wrinkles.
But then you find something like this. A skipped stitch. I think I can fix it though.
Finding these crimp on sun visor ends was actually kind of difficult. It was not a listing I found anytime before. Once I saw them I picked them up quick.
Good one. Nice to have a win.
Bruce. >:D
Ok replicating the method of sewing on these visors is difficult. I can see the top side so I can pull out wrinkles as I sew around the part. But the bottom is invisible. I can have a clean surface on one side and loose pockets on the other. There is another way to do this. I can perimeter sew to a 20 pt chip board with the material flat first. Then when the assembly is wrapped around the visor it will hold itself tight when I see the perimeter. I still need to order my chip board. But I might try that.
It would be interesting to know the method used at the factory...
They probably had a tension frame template. Mount to the visor mount on one side. Then grab the cover sandwich and pull tight passed the needle head.
They probably also used a roller foot machine. I have walking foot only.
MY wife has 40+ yrs as a seamstress, in her "garage" is 11 sewing machines, 7 are currently working and are used, ( the other 4 are awaiting minor repairs by me) but you are correct as it would be a "rolling foot" for the visors, she also commented on your sewing ability as being excellent, such as stitch length and type of thread etc..., also something about you can purchase a " wind lace" foot for a walking foot type machine, or with the machine you used, back off the thread tension a wee bit and foot pressure, and trust yourself and the machine and just feed it through, this should help as not to cause the wind lace to want to curl, and will settle in nicely as the interior ages. :o ::).
Just passing this along, this is why I stay in the garage doing the pinion seal on her Cadillac and looking for seat track covers and figuring out how to "fix" the door wiring conduits on the 62 until they are reproduced. Anyway things seem to be moving along quite nicely, I bet that garage is nice this time of year! Joe
I was just in the garage trimming out the doors this evening. This weekend will be another batch of 15 wall panels I hope. However I have a plot of trees I need to cut down and I think I might work through some of those while the ground is still dry. I have about 80 soft wood trees that are within reach of falling into neighbor's property. I have already paid to replace fencing for a few that fell. I am not looking forward to paying for repairs of three buildings that are at risk They were planted to close together in the 50s by my great grandfather. They grew very tall and skinny. But unfortunately they are weak. I tried contacting some mills to see if anyone wanted the timber. About 400 in total. But due to the size and location no takers. So I am just going to drop thrm and let them rot where they fall. But I still plan to work on my garage. And think about my sewing methodology some more. I have to pick up a binding attachment for the vinyl edging on the visors anyway.
Ok one more thing I must consider. The original nap material on the visors had a non stretchable backing. The new nap material is very stretchy. I may need to pre glue the headliner material to a muslin fabric to make it not stretchable.
My original floor mats. Looking at these it is hard to believe that they were once blue. Some day I will need to see how far I can get cleaning them.
You can clean them, but they will never come back to blue. My '72 de Ville has green ones; I cleaned them at home into the bath tub; they are beginning to discolor. Age and sun are the culprit.
Ok. I have been thinking and that is dangerous.
Now that my floor is good I am going to pull the body back off and put it back on the rotisserie. I will install the engine trans driveshaft etc. I will get it running, paint the firewall while on the rotisserie then put the body back on permanently. I do not trust my skills to finish the paint and body work. So I will need to get the car running and driving. Even if it is just a lawn chair. The paint shop I talked to said they would rather work on a running car. I still do not know how far off the paint is. But these are steps I can take.
Walking the engine back to the barn. If I ever do this again I am going to get a new engine stand. Those flat steel wheels do not like to roll.
Distributor question. I know that my distributor was clocked wrong from my engine rebuild. From the shop manual it says the rotor should face to the direct back of the engine. In order to do this I need to rotate the shaft on my oil pump to have the flat spot face the rest of the engine. Any recommendations on how to do this.
I thought I could drop the pan and spin from below.
Or I could reinstall the distributor. Turn over the motor yo rotate. Pull the distributor. Turn engine back to TDC then reinstall the distributor. Any other thoughts.
Ok I think I have it all back together correct. However I am missing a screw for my vacuum advance. I know I have it. But with everything still packed up from my remodel I probably will not find it for a while.
I installed the distributor to use to rotate the oil pump shaft. I rotated watching the rotor to estimate the shaft flat position. Then removed and rotated back to TDC.
So I am an auto engineer. But most of the things I design I only work on in a digital state. I mostly pass off the designs for others to put in to production.
I am working on building up my own skills and competency. That is really what the goal is for doing this 61 Fleetwood. It will never be worth the money or effort I am puttinb into it.
FYI this is the first part I designed and developed. A seat back panel for chrysler. Actually there were 8 different versions of this panel I made for this vehicle over a year.
My first design had the edges of the lower carpet going all the way up into the lower curves. But for material utilization chrysler vetoed me and cut it straight. I think it makes it look incomplete.
I must ask a question because I am young and ignorant. And it has to do with the jack. I would never actually use the jack to lift the car. But I do want to make sure it works. I have some work to do cleaning this up. Straightening some metal parts etc. But I want to ask about the function.
If the tab is flipped to up then working the lever works the mechanism up the shaft. If the tab is switched back down the mech quickly slides down the shaft unhindered. Under weight of car this would be quick and dangerous. Am I missing a part of feature to control the down movement. Or is that the way it is. I know these were dangerous. But that dangerous?
G'day Carl,
Firstly, nothing wrong with these original jacks, as they are requires especially to lift the rear high enough to allow the rear axle to drop down low enough to allow for the removal of the rear wheel when at the roadside, with a flat tyre. Jacking up the rear of our cars, especially the ones with Wheel Spats, and low rear wheel arches, it is impossible to get a rear tyre off without raising the body.
Now, as you have found, the raising is a simple ratchet the lever downwards to lift the section that slides up the post to rice in increments.
To lower the car, the "loose" lever is flipped the other way, and then, with the wheel wrench in the lifting tube, push downward, so that the jack piece raises a bit, and in doing this, the internal Paul will "flip" out, away from the rack, and then, whilst still holding the vehicle's weight on the wheel wrench handle, slowly ease the pressure, letting the lever lift upwards, allowing the slider to descend the rack and lust before ending the travel of the wheel wrench, the Paul will catch in the rack. This allows you to raise the the wrench up a bit to gain a disconnection, and allow you to push it back down, to the bottom, and slightly raise the car a bit so that the Paul releases again, and continue the downward and upward movement, till the car is on the ground.
The secret of using these is to slightly position the jack under the Bumper Bar so that the base plate is slightly under the vehicle, with the upright at about a 5 Degree angle, up and away from the vertical.
Doing this pre-positioning, allows for the post to come to the vertical as the vehicle reaches the upward limit. Failure to do this can result in the jack top getting really close to the body, or lights of the car.
These types of jacks have been produced by the Millions, and I have never heard of a failure when used as per instructions.
Bruce. >:D
Thank you. I still feel worrisome about the mechanism. But I would not use it due to scratching/denting the bumper.
With the one for my '72 Eldo, I put a wool sleeve to protect the Bumper.
The thing about these Jacks is that the Factory made the Bumper Bars to accommodate the lifting piece. I will have to take a look under my car and see what it is like.
Don't forget that the Factory would not want the jack to damage the bar, as this would lead to lots of customer complaints, and warranty repairs to fix any damage.
The Owners Manual will give precise instructions on where it goes.
Bruce. >:D
Having owned Cadillacs all of my driving life, Carl, and I'm 75, I have, on occasion used "the jack." And yes, as reported above, they do work, but they are rather frightening to use. To a greater or lesser degree, you're lifting the car on one corner and that's a lot of its mass, and, as you know, the bumper and associated assemblies have to do this without bending and/or distorting any of the assemblies--older cars that have compromised rusted assemblies are not candidates for this kind of lifting. Also, the jack's "footing" must be on a surface that won't distort or sink, and the car must be on level ground. We're fortunate that modern tubeless tires are not so subject to flats! Thoroughly enjoying your work and narratives, Carl--- I owned a '61 convertible way back in the mid 60's when my parents' indulged me while I was in college...you can only imagine how much fun I had--- the 61 is a stellar model... Have fun, James
Thank you all again for the advise and direction with the jack. I put all the parts together and see how it works. But it is obvious that this jack dropped the car at some time. The side of the plate jaw is bent and does not hold the part well anymore.
At first I thought I was missing a part where the spring steel sits. Buy now I assume that that spring is just a detent to hold the jack bumper plate.
It is probably going to take some time to figure out how to straighten this without doing more damage. If I overheat to form I may weaken the metal. It would not matter to me since I will only be looking at the jack. But it might be needed by someone in the future.
So one note I do have my original wheel block. When I was dragging the car out of the barn this was sitting on the ground next go it. I did not know if it went with the car but I decided no one would care if I took it.
Carl,
That bent piece is toast, and I would not recommend using heat to straighten it. If it cannot be straightened cold, then toss it out and get another one. Heating will result in one hook being a different strength than the other.
Looking at the way it was bent, I would say that the damage occurred when the previous owner used it incorrectly, and the car slipped sideways, and "fell" off the jack.
I can only surmise how this happened, but if one jacks higher than it takes to replace the wheel, there is the possibility that the weight (grip) of the adjacent wheel with the ground became non-existent, and the car wasn't properly wheel-chocked at the front, allowing the vehicle to pirouette on the front wheel that was unrestrained.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: Clewisiii on December 08, 2020, 04:24:44 PM
So one note I do have my original wheel block. When I was dragging the car out of the barn this was sitting on the ground next go it. I did not know if it went with the car but I decided no one would care if I took it.
Those wheel blocks were used and were part or the original equipment for years. My '72 de Ville has one too!
The last of my wall is closed up. Funny even with the plastic lining as much as I could, and six inches of insulation, I could still feel cold air moving through the wall in the corner. Now that it is closed up, and trimmed, I should have a lot less air movement.
The last big shelf is put together. This is going to be for all the trim and chrome. However they were out of the wire shelf panels for the shelving. I ordered them but will not receive until early to mid January.
Well after 2 years my shop is as complete as it needs to be to continue.
It is time to strip this body again. I need to fix the surface rust that has popped up over the years from my poor shop conditions. But it should be much easier to clean up then it was the first time. The body has no issues other then the corner of the firewall from raccoon urine. Bi had spent a lot of time on the body work of the body itself.
The doors fenders and hood are another matter. They need to be stripped nearly entirely. I will be able to save the front lip of the hood. But not the upper surface.
I hope to get this back on the rotisserie by this weekend.
I will need to think of a creative way to properly hold these for doing the body work.
I think I need to put more of a curve on the passenger fender. Mounted on the top and bottom it seems to flat in the middle compared to the door.
looking good Carl! You can make a stand out of 1x or 2x to hold the fender will you get it in shape, body work, then spray them, can get cheap casters for them so as to move them around that kick ass garage. can do the same for the hood. wood is pretty cheap and you can burn it when done with it. Just a thought!
That actually went faster then I thought. 1.5 hours in total. I started lifting and realised I forgot one body mount. So it had to go back down. Working alone this is a little dangerous. I lifted both ends enough to put the rotisserie ends on. I then lifted the frame and put the rotisserie center bar in. I then took the wheels off on one side and slowly slide the frame out sideways. Only 1 inch of clearance so it was a lot of back and forth sliding. Now to clean all the dust and dirt.
I have to admit I nearly made a mistake. I started rotating the body before I realized I forgot to put nuts on the front mounts.
I don't know how it is possible. But another one of these fell out of my car.
I sand blasted everything. Spent hours with an extension on an air blower blowing out every body cavity I could find. I spun this thing in circles on the rotisserie last time over a hundred times to help shake everything out of the body. And the first time spinning upside down this time another one fell out.
It really bugs me how much clean up I am going to need to do because of the racoons. There are even areas of my ceramic painted frame along the firewall and front section that have rusted.
It still amazing to me that this car is sitting on the same tires from 1976 when it was parked. One of the tires is actually the original spare. I have not put air in them for two years.
When I went to look at the car originally I brought two tanks of air with me and asked the seller if I could try to air them up And look under the car. I came back a week later to pick it up and all but one tire was still holding air. That is the one I switched out with the original spare still in the trunk.
No matter how much we try to clean out, stuff will always appear from somewhere.
I had a car media-blasted at the request of the owner, and even the body was totally stripped, and cleaned out afterwards, many times, blown out, vacuumed out, and shaken, powder is still finding its' way out of crevices and onto the carpet.
I am still finding bugs nests in my car and boat that I imported back in 2008, even though they were thoroughly cleaned prior to departure, and in the case of the boat, totally stripped out and rebuilt with new timber and upholstery.
In the picture under the dash of my '72 Eldo, there were 3 nests, and I didn't see them till years later, and didn't notice them, even though I had been under there many times. One on the nut looks like a starter, the one next to it has proceeded a bit further in construction, then the one on the wiring loom was well on the way to a condominium.
Bruce. >:D
That original spare is beautiful though. I am really going to have to make sure I get original look tires.
I was sitting here looking at my car after I got the body back up in the air, and watched about three spiders drop down from the body to the floor.
I didn't have any bees nests. Originally it was all mouse and squirrel mess. The first time I had it in my garage we sat and watched three mice take a dive from the car and run across the floor. No telling how many dead ones I cleaned up. But this clean up after getting back in my shop included racoons crap in the trunk.
I am so thankful for my remodeled shop. Hopefully I can put an end to this mess.
I probably have six coats of paint on the bottom of this car now. I did two coats of grey epoxy originally. Then I did a full coat of red oxide to match the look of the original. But the red oxide primer I used did not like being a top coat. It was turning chalky. So I did a coat of black frame paint. Then went back to grey after I had to do another repair. I still want the red oxide look. I have tried others. I think I will just search for a red epoxy.
Rick Payton and I are in the middle of doing 2 '55 Eldorado's and a former Cadillac studio fellow doing his '57 Brougham gave us his paint color which matches the OE primer.
Per Glen, "about a gallon of PPG DP74LF red to a quart of DP90 LF black"
I can't get the photo uploader to work, is it me or is anyone else having issues?
David
My feeder attachment showed up for my flat sewing machine today. This attachment is for the folded vinyl edge around the sun visor s.
It was a pain to set up. The material did not want to feed at all. Kept jamming in the machine. I broke some needles and had to reset the machine timing.
I this this attachment was originally gaped for fabric. I tried prying it open a bit with the blade of some thin screwdrivers and it started feeding much better. But I still need to adjust the bottom plate to allow it to come closer to the needle.
Once I get my order of two more yards of vinyl from SMS I will feel much more comfortable cutting some more to try out those visors again.
Well my exterior chrome and door chrome is back out in the garage. I had been storing it in a spare bedroom. I am still fearful about having these clean rechromed parts in a working garage. But it is just me so I should be safe.
All of my IP chrome is still on a rack in my basement. And the windows are in the spare room. The IP parts can stay I am going to rebuild rebuild the complete IP in my basement trim shop. But I need to figure out a long term storage place in my garage for the windshields.
Carl,
With all of your magnificent expertise and, now, having repurposed the space to restore Phyllis, do you have any thoughts about taking on other projects when Phyllis is entirely resurrected, or am I asking this question at an inappropriate moment. Am enjoying from afar (in Maine) the wonderful progress you're making on one of my most favorite model and year of Cadillac cars. Gratefully, James
Yes. I am young. And learning on a somewhat undesirable car. With this experience and tool/ equipment collecting anything else should get easier. I still want a 50s buick roadmaster. That was my original goal.
Carl, say “I am young†proudly…..You’re gonna miss “young†when you get “oldâ€.
You should also be very proud of the shop you built and the work thus far. It all appears to be professional quality. I started in this hobby with a few friends in the 1960’s when we were twenty somethings. When everyone wanted muscle cars we tinkering in local garages with the “old guys†helping with their Model A’s, Packards, Lincoln Continentals and even a Stoddard Dayton. That’s how we learned. Many of my friends went into the mechanic, fabrication and body work trades and opened their own businesses. My home garages have always been clean storage or at most assembly type of work. I did the mechanical and dirty heavy work in their shops bartering by helping them with their cars or jobs, learning with each experience There’s no better way to learn something than the apprentice system of doing with someone there to explain the right and wrong of a task.
I’m curious about one thing. There is no one else in your shop pics. Do you have any helping hands to handle the heavy tasks? In my best days, 6’3†220 lbs, I needed help to hang or remove doors, hoods, bumpers and engines. Today I need someone flexible enough to work under a dash. Unfortunately there is no one interested in helping or learning. Young relatives and neighborhood teenagers have no interest cars or building/fixing things. They’ll never know the satisfaction of building something with their own hands. If they don’t start now, where will the next generation of doers come from? I was in graduate school about the time that the engineering disciplines were diversifying into the more esoteric, specialized and theoretical fields. My advisor, a hard boiled machine designer who made a fortune with his own company by “doing†, had an expression about the emphasis on PhD’s and DSc’s. It was “What would they do if they had to kill something to eat todayâ€. Professor Deutschman’s descriptions may be a bit crude by today’s standard but his observations were always wise.
Please keep us posted……
I work alone. Unfortunately. My dad is my neighbor. But I have never gotten him interested in working on this with me. The only issue I have had with that so far, is the body panels. I cannot adjust and tighten the bolts into place at the same time. Leading to the thought I will just pay for professional body work.
I have learned that I can do anything with the right planning. I actually lifted my parents house and put a new foundation under it with only sporadic help. I impressed myself getting that I beam for my hoist raised and bolted to my shops ceiling alone.
I am a degreed engineer. My actual degree is in Bio Engineering. I wanted to make artificial knees and surgical devices. But being in Mid Michigan becoming an auto engineer was to easy and the pay is good. I now have a patent for coverstock weakening for passenger airbag deployment. I am not willing to move for something else. What we used to say about the degrees when I was in college. B.S, M.S, PHD. Bull shit, more shit, Piled Higher and Deeper. The actual activities of my job do not need a degree. As a matter of fact initially I was the only professional engineer in my company. As we grew I kept pushing to promote and train people off of our plant floor to do my job. I thought it would have been a great thing for my company and morale. But new management says everyone in my position needs to be degreed engineers. Which really scares others who have been doing this job for five or more years with no degree.
Carl, Ralph,
I'm truly encouraged and affirmed by your personal observations in these two exchanges. I'm a "school man," having started my career in '67 (retired '17), in public, and switched to private- independent, and took my first appointment as a headmaster (aka head of school), in 86--- Hired hundreds of professionals, and "replaced" far too many who were convinced that their advanced degrees meant that kids (and their parents) would be engaged and beguiled by their credentials. Hard work, focus, persistence, trial and error, and egolessness are the ingredients for "moment to moment" success, and your restoration process validates and affirms this approach-- thus the appeal to my sensibilities and the respectfulness you engender with your narratives and pictures. All said, what you've accomplished and are accomplishing have far greater relevance then the project's end product- the physical restoration of a 1961 Cadillac. James
I too prefer to work alone, as one can get tasks done silently, except for the occasional cuss when something goes wrong, like hurting oneself, and I have managed the art of self-applying Band-Aids to stem the flow of the red stuff, and to keep the dirt out.
I have many objects that I have created to assist me in tasks, and not having to rely on assistance, I can, or actually, used to, work at odd hours, any time I liked. Plus, I didn't have to share my beer either, but don't drink alone. That would be selfish.
I have learnt that anything can be moved, raised or positioned with a lever, jack or rope, and when building my Garage/workshop, many a steel beam "fell" upwards and into place.
Bruce. >:D
Ok I may have been more lucky then I have the right to be.
I am on an auto Upholstery forum. And a shop about an hour from me listed a rack of leather hides for sale at $200 a hide. From the picture I could see a color poking out the bottom of the rack that could be close to my color. So today I decided to take a chance and drive out there to see what they had.
The color is very close. May be better then the hide I got from SMS on color. It is definitely better in quality compared to SMS. It was a Bridge of Weir hide. Which is a good brand.
Here is the hide. The rectangle is the vinyl for my car. The oblong piece is the SMS hide.
At $200 a hide this is cheaper then the vinyl from SMS. They have at least 10 more of this color. I could go an all leather interior for a good price if I wanted.
I had contacted other suppliers to try to special order a hide in better quality color matched for my car. $1000 a hide.
I bought a lottery ticket on my way home to press my luck.
Congratulations. Nothing like having a win once in a while, and wish you luck with the ticket.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: Clewisiii on January 04, 2021, 05:36:45 PM
At $200 a hide this is cheaper then the vinyl from SMS. They have at least 10 more of this color. I could go an all leather interior for a good price if I wanted.
Good catch! However, you will at the end be disturbed by the color difference between the leather and the vinyl. I would avoid to use leather and vinly like bolsters and seat's sides and go for all leather. I would use the vinyl only for places not direct next to the leather.
Of course, this has a price, especially if you already bought the vinyl; maybe the ticket will help!
Well that is if I recreate the original. The only parts that were leather were the top of door armrest and a 2 inch border around the seats.
If you are sewing the leather's bolster to the side of the sets, you may notice the color difference. As both surfaces are not at the same angle to the eye, this difference can be insignificant.
I had custom dyed leather for my '55 Eldo and it took 6 hides. With shipping and dying charges, it was just a little less than $3000. They matched the color perfectly to the sample...twice as I ended up being one hide short and had to get it after the other 5 were shipped.
If any one would want the supplier, send me a note.
David
I contacted SMS to ask about the rest of my order from last April. She said it will still be a while. I asked does that mean 6 months. Or truly unknown. I said I have it scheduled to check back every two months. She said just keep checking.
After six years of sitting on a cart my trans is now on a stand and ready to be cleaned and really looked over.
I opened my trans. A little dirt/sludge. But I did find one piece of metal.
Third picture down shows the metal piece pushed up the wall.
Well maybe it is nothing. I tested that chunk with a magnet and it is not metal. None of the fluid looked like it had shavings.
The 4th picture is showing a clean transmission. However, with the filter, there is maybe less sludge than with a screen as it was the rule till mid-1959.
If you don't know the story from your transmission, you should open it to replace the rubber seals and friction disks.
The piece of metal could be aluminum; there are several internal parts made with that metal; the cover for the front unit coupling, the accumulator, the valve body and the piston for the reverse clutch are made with aluminum. The part you found can be "nothing" but it must come from somewhere.
Nuts and bolts. Clean and inventory.
Going through all of my oily rusty bags of bolts as I removed them from my car. Cleaning and bead blasting them all.
Ok one thing I need is a foot pedal valve for by blaster. Right now my air blasts constantly as I work around the cabinet. That is overworking my air compressor. I do one bag at a time to keep them separate. I can do about six bags back to back before my compressor overheats and I have to let it cool down and hit the rest button.
So one thing then another.
I got my foot pedal air valve for my blasting cabinet. Much better. Far easier to control and only blasting on command now. I even put on a pressure regulator for control at the cabinet.
But I was running out of blasting media so I had to drive a couple of towns over to buy a 50 pound bucket. But in cleaning out the old material I broke the glass window on the cabinet. So now I need to go to a glass shop to get some good tempered glass cut for the blaster. I figure I will pick up at least three to have spares.
But for the hardware the blasting and cleaning has gone well. This has really helped me to inventory and understand where I need to replace hardware that I lost, is to rusty, or I had to cut to remove.
I am now into Jason Edge for about $250 in replacement bolts and hardware from his great work in having all of his collected hardware cleaned and recadmium coated. I at least want to have all good clean stuff for the under hood visible hardware.
Clean up. I got through a lot of my under hood nuts and bolts.
I switched over to cleaning the parts inside my doors. I started with the passenger front. My passenger front door was the worst area on my car for rust and rot. I replaced the door itself. But now I am going through all of the internals.
Most cleaned up nice. There are a lot of bolts I will need to replace. The main window motor cleaned up and is now working well. The vent window motor is another problem. Lots of corrosion in the motor. And I am surprised the motor torqued out do high and messed up the gear. I will need to look into. New motor.
I believe that it was an issue at that time, the pinion was eaten easily. There were once repro in brass.
Repro vent window gears are still available. I replaced my fronts recently; got them from OPGI.
It took more then half the day to bead blast this air cleaner lid. I kept having to stop to let my air compressor cool.
While I was waiting I did some hammering on the air cleaner itself. I had a heavy dent and kink. Took a little while to flatter back out. The elevated filter holder in the air cleaner made it difficult to hammer. I am going to sand the area to find the low spots to fine tune some more.
It won't be as perfect as fresh stamped steel. But it should be better then driver.
This air cleaner is right on the edge of being to big for my sand blasting cabinet. Hard to be able to move it and work around it to get all areas. It is going to take a while until I am ready for paint on this.
Just because pictures are fun.
For working on my under hood part restorations piece meal I have been using rattle cans for the paint.
Most of the black parts are called "Semi Gloss". But the sheen does not really match to what is semi gloss today.
Thanks to Dan LaBlancs suggestion I used VHT Gloss chassis roll bar paint.
For the actual gloss parts I have used Rust-oleum gloss engine enamel. Or Krylon Industrial gloss.
I say all that to say this. The air cleaner is being painted with Rust-oleum engine gloss. And I ran out after spraying the inside of the air cleaner. I went to three auto parts stores today looking for more and no one had any. So I ordered four cans from Amazon. I should be able to finish this next week.
I think the air cleaner turned out nice.
Carl, Do you know if you have the original carb on your engine? If you do think it is and if your car is an original A/C car, do you think you could snap me a picture of your choke cover plate, possibly a close up so I can get the proper part#. Mine car has a non-A/C choke cover and it has a crack in it.
thanks Scott
Rebuilt original carb with AC. The choke plate was replaced but I have the original. The only difference I see is the part number stamped on the new one.
thanks for the pictures, I should have thought to ask if you had a Carter AFB or a Rochester. Unfortunately I have the Carter AFB. Looks like they did a nice job on the plating. Thanks for the quick response
Ok one question. Here is my original air cleaner. notice the side the intake tube comes from. This is flipped from most all of them that i have seen on restored cars. What are your thoughts.
Carl,
The other GM car lines also used that type of air cleaner housing. It's possible that a previous owner acquired one if the original one was damaged or missing. That would account for the decal being in the wrong location.
Rick
Here is a picture of my original and un-restored 61 Fleetwood air cleaner as it was when I purchased the car
The above pic also corresponds to my original Fleetwood, which is in temporary storage storage while I remodel my garage.
Lost and found. I had been missing my Fleetwood chevrons for about a year. Someone had asked if anyone had any and it sent me on the search. I found them.
Another missing item I went in search of today was the spacer between the crank and trans. I did not know where it was after my engine rebuild. Found it. Also found my trans rubber mount.
In the beginning I used to quiz myself on the locations of all of my obscure items. I would sit in a chair think of something and then see if I could find it first try. After reorganizing and moving everything for my garage renovation I now am a little mixed up.
Congratulations on locating the lost pieces, or should I say, safely stored pieces.
I can relate to your putting things away and then not being able to find them.
Bruce. >:D
The amount of time that I've spent looking for a bolt, nut, washer, or tool that I just set down can be measured in months.
"It was right here!"
Notice that it is always going to be in the last place you look. But, surprising what can be found when continuing to look.
Bruce. >:D
Going back to working on my interior.
I made the chip board backing for the driver door uppers. I also tested the Blind pleat sewing again and I am getting happier with it.
I need to pick up the door panel hard board and cut some new ones.
Another thing I need to look at is the door panel metal edging. These have retainer spikes that grab the fabric around the edge, and have the door panel retainer nails.
I realized the driver side and passenger side are mirror opposites so before I see this I am going to make two more chip board pieces. One for passenger side and one spare.
My test sewing is going well. Now I just need to do it for real.
I do not want to cut any more vinyl until I get my last 3 yards of vinyl from SMS. So I cannot do the uppers yet.
So now I have to do a little math and understanding.
I was testing sewing a seam and noticed that my seam left a smaller center dark panel reveal then the original. I was worried that I was sewing wrong.
But I noticed that the ratio of the ribbon sizes between my original and new material was different. Due the the age evidence I am sure my new material is new old stock. But at some time in the past they changed the loom set up. On the original the ribbons are an even 1.5 inches.
On the new material the light ribbon is 1.75 and the dark ribbon is 1 1/8.
I will have to see if I need to adjust for that little discrepancy.
Sorry missed pictures.
The door panel material gets sewn to a chipboard. A heavy cardstock. It should never take any abuse but I want to tune my stitch per inch to keep this sewn seam from becoming an easy tear location.
Sewing cardboard is not a real trick, if you have the correct sewing machine. You have to remember that when these things were made, the manufacturer had multiple machines that did one task. We try to use the same machine, and sometimes it works, other times not.
When making thousands of the same thing, one can afford to buy specialised stuff, which in the case of manufacturing cars, can be used for dozens of years, so the cost is not high in the scheme of things. As they say, it is all about economies of scale.
I would love to see the machine that sewed the rubber strip to the top of the internal firewall insulation cardboard.
Bruce. >:D
Dang it. First pass and I destroyed this part. The machine jumped timing and did not know the stitching. I tried a second pass but by this point the chipboard was compromised enough it just tore apart. I will need to glue up another panel and try another day.
May I suggest a longer stitch, as in at least 1/4" or 3/8", or even longer?
It looks like your machine is actually too tight in the tension, and tearing the surrounding substrate.
The other thing that might help is to run a steam iron over the cardboard and sewing whilst warm.
I have had great performance with steaming cardboard when making glove boxes and once cold, the shape that I put into it stays. I found this out when I had to make a replacement glove box internal for a '59 Thunderbird I was converting, and it is surprising just how soft and pliable the board can get, and not lose its performance when cooled down.
Bruce. >:D
PS. I don't use the wifes' good steam iron. Bought her a new one so I could use her old one.
No it was just the timing issue. It did not knot on the first pass. So the second pass just doubled the perforations in the chipboard.
I need to figure out how to reprogram the EFKA controller. It is currently set to automatically do a triple back tack on the start of each seam. The bobbin tail got hung up during the initial back tack and jumped the timing. The machine has an automatic clutch that releases the bobbin hook when this happens to prevent damage or jambing.
G'day Carl,
Could the problem be that the machine you are using is actually too fancy for the task?
I would have thought that having full manual control would be better in this instance.
Bruce. >:D
I finished sewing that damaged panel. And the one thing that I learned is I will need to change the pattern due to that 1/8 inch difference in ribbon width.
It quickly got off of my foam pleat backing.
Hi Carl,
back on page 12 of this thread, is that gray rim from the spare the original rim color for the 1961 Series 60?
I'm looking to clean up and paint my rims before I get some new Coker Classics put on in the near future.
any info on original rim paint color from anyone who knows would be great.
my 61 is called Old Joe....maybe he an Phyllis can meet one day...lol
Thanks!
"Dove Grey" is the name of the color for the rims. I don't know the color code for that, someone more knowledgable might be able to help.
back on the old 61/62 site ford 8n gray was said to be a very close color for the wheels. Also you are missing some trim pieces.
Yes that is my original spare. I have bought both ford 8n light grey and Krylon Industrial Dove Grey 1605. They changed the name to Stone Grey but it is still 1605.
I think the Krylon Industrial is a lot closer. But Ford also had the old ford grey on the 2 n that was darker. I did not test that.
I just happen to have a ford fender for comparison
Quote from: Clewisiii on May 05, 2021, 03:38:05 PM
I just happen to have a ford fender for comparison
....."i just happen to have a ford fender"....is hilarious. Carl, you're awesome. thanks for the update and all your hard work on this restoration. it motivates me on my 61.
I have heard that Tractor Supply Carries that Ford Grey in a rattle can.. Might check if you have any stores near by.
CJ
Jack
Well back to this. I had completely stripped and rebuilt my front seat. I am still waiting on an order from SMS before I can start sewing the cover.
So I decided to strip the rear seat. I will not cut apart the cover yet. But I can rebuild the spring assembly and foam. This rear seat was not as bad as the front. So I am happy for that.
The foam is actually in great shape. Other then the horrible mouse mess smell. So I will not reuse it.
I should have worn a respirator. I can feel this filth all over me.
I will work on sandblasting and painting the frame. I have most of these springs new. But there are 4 in the assembly that are a different size. I will need to clean and reuse those.
I got the outer frame blasted and painted. I only got half way through the back frame before it became to dark. Hopefully I will be able to finish sandblasting on Thanksgiving.
My seat back upper assembly is sandblasted and painted. Working on reassembly but I do not like the spring rate of the new springs I bought. They are either 13-15 gauge. I think I need to search for 16-18 gauge. So I will take a break while I try to hunt for new supplies.
Well since I am going to have to take a break from the seats to shop for new springs. It is time to start cleaning up my cross car beam.
I started sand blasting and painting the brackets. I need to blast the main beam outside so I will need to wait for dry weather.
I also need to set my electroplating station back up for all the hardware. I have not used it for more then three years.
I cleaned up the cross car beam bolts and hardware.
I am ordering supplies to fix up my plating station. I am trying to find an integrated sealable plastic strainer and bucket combo for a muratic acid bath.
I need a new filter and circulation pump set up. Some parts are already ordered.
I am just going to continue to use the silicone strap heaters I already have. They wrap around the outside of the bucket, and I must heat to 160 degrees for electrolyte and 190 degrees for degreaser. I worry my heaters will melt the buckets.
I need to build an in electrolyte tumbling barrel to make it easier to do nuts and bolts. It is annoying to wire up each nut and bolt individually.
I was going to build a new frame table on wheels for my plating station. But I would want to powder coat the frame before I assemble it. But my powder coater normally takes a month to get things back. I may just spray paint it.
These marks are from 2 years of use on my player. The brown marks are only in the areas the foil tape covered the silicone.
It may actually be better to tape the entire silicone. I think I am turning my heater up to high because I am only getting heat transfer in the areas of tape.
How has you experience been doing the plating yourself? Guessing your using Caswell products. I decided to I wanted to make my own solutions and it definitely has taken some experimenting and I'm still not totally happy every time.
I will have an update on that soon. I bought my original set up 4 years ago. But I have not used it in 3 years. The new frame for the cell is at the powder coaters now. I am working on building a small barrel roller to make nuts and bolt plating easier.
Originally I really liked my results. But I was not filtering the electrolyte good enough. Over time it got very grainy.
Ok a break from big things and on to all the little pieces. These are the aluminum grill extension pieces between some headlights. This is making me appreciate what a puzzle it is going to be to clean and redo the entire grill.
Continuing smalls. I sandblasted and painted the trunk accessories. I am still waiting on getting my electroplating station set back up so I can zinc coat the jack mast.
I need to pick up some caustic soda to strip the aluminum anodized parts. I will make some extra tanks for my electroplating station to reannodize the aluminum trim parts
Reiterating an old story. When I bought my car I pulled it out of a basement of an old barn. It was in the center section with feed troughs on each side. Sitting on the ground next to it was the wooden block wedge. I picked it up and put it in the car not knowing if it was actually a part. I am happy I did since this was the original chock block.
My favorite trim paint. Krylon industrial Semi flat. Lays nice, dries fast, decent sheen, hard coat.
But it is $10 a can and is only sold in one place local to me.
And I just emptied my last can. I guess that is a night for me.
My parts car spare 7 blade fan is in better condition then my original. So I will switch out and use this one. I also decided to switch out the fan housing but it will not fit in my blasting cabinet.
Ditto on the Krylon paint. Awesome product. Clay/Lexi
I finally got my electroplating station set back up. It has been down 4 years. I am cycling parts that are hidden so not to important for my testing. I need to get the chemicals and the PH dialed in.
Here is the start to parts for my Instrument panel cross car beam.
Not a bright as I would like. So I ordered a bottle of brightener
Carl,
Speaking of chromed parts, back in the mid-60's, I owned at '61 convertible and, over time, I discovered that "spacer" between the hood and the windshield (where the wipers are mounted), had been "chromed." I knew the original owner, and he told me he had no idea that part came from the factory painted in white but chromed underneath. Still doesn't make sense to me... perhaps you have some insights? James
That cowl piece has a vent grill in it. The vent grill chrome was left exposed and the surrounding body was painted.
Very nice work on the plating. I might have to learn how to do that as well.
I cannot imagine how much it is going to cost to find a chrome shop willing to take on this piece.
Quote from: Clewisiii on January 17, 2022, 08:22:34 AM
I cannot imagine how much it is going to cost to find a chrome shop willing to take on this piece.
If I was faced with this situation: I would let the plater remove the chrome and nickel, leaving the copper. Then I would sand the copper with the hope that the pits are not deep. I did the process on some pot metal parts, but never on a grille.
I have used BL Plating for a few parts here in the metro Detroit area. Since my car is being done in WI and close to Minneapolis, a shop there has done most of it.
They should be able to do it, affording it might be another issue.
BL Plating
21363 Edom
Warren, MI 48089
586 778-9300
I think the cowl grill is painted with the edge of the fins showing chrome?
Blue chromate plating the wiper arm base. The shaft itself gets painted black. I am so happy this worked. I will start on the other one.
It just looks great.
I am very happy with these results. Now I just need to get my tumbler plater set up.
I have all the hardware and fasteners direct to my cross car beam redone. I am going to start working through all the dash components and hardware.
I am so happy to be able to restore this hardware. This cross car beam is looking beautiful.
Now that the cross car beam is ready. I need to start working through the rest of the dash parts. Some of these just need cleaning. The chrome plating will need to be sent out.
Showing off a bit I had two glove box inners re flocked. They are very nice.
The painted metal parts were painted in my excitement in the freezing cold a few years ago. I had some errors so these will be sanded and repainted.
Does anyone have a suggestion for someone to go through the heat and AC controls. I asked Bob's Speedometer shop and he said he could do cosmetic but could not guarantee function.
Contact Tim Groves. He's in the directory and on this board. He very knowledgeable about Climate Controls and AC systems. If he can't do it, he may know someone who will. You might consider finding better replacement pieces as they may be a more cost effective alternative
I don't want to be that guy complaining about the loss of USA Auto Parts. But there is a list of things for this IP I was planning on buying from them that I was just not ready for yet. But now I am.
Color coded vacuum tube set.
Lighters and bases
Dash light lense
AC duct hose
Clamp kit
Glovebox and ashtray bumpers.
I will just need to find others.
There's a guy on Ebay ("Chip's Cads" IIRC) who carries the glove box/ash tray bumpers.
Here's a link to an eBay vendor selling color coded vacuum hoses that might help.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/182747656981
Ames Pontiac has them in their catalog --- https://secure.amesperf.com/ Possibly Olds and Buick vendors have them as well as Corvette parts vendors.
Actually that only took an hour for one to clean up. This is mostly mechanical with two vacuum pots I couldn't really tough and two electrical switches.
Rubber the Right Way sells Steele rubber parts and there are several glove box, fuel door bumpers available. I used 1/8" thick ones on the '55 glove box.
I am not tearing into this radio myself. I just wanted to look at it. Funny thing is this was working when I took the car apart.
I am trying to make an order of operations and a part list to finish my IP
$1000 for dash wire harness
$600 for radio restoration
$1000 for various chrome
Maybe clock service. It was working
I can include $800 for steering wheel restoration there.
Curiosity question. Probably no real answer. This is about the lighter
1. How hot should they get
2. How long should they take to pop.
I never used one of these as a child.
I soaked a lighter assembly in a cleaning material over night, then I hooked it to a power supply to test it. After it popped it was at 800 degrees. I tried to light a piece of paper, but only casually and it didn't light. I don't know if pulling on a cigarette was necessary for these to light.
They only have to get hot enough to release the bimetallic retaining spring, and every one I have used, many years ago, the coil glowed, and sufficiently hot enough to light a cigarette whilst it is being sucked on. A cigar might take longer.
I just checked my '72 Eldo, and from cold, the lighter takes 14 Seconds to pop up.
Bruce. >:D
Restored and unrestored ash tray bracket. It was nice to be able to go into my shop just on my lunch break and get one of these done.
Seems like to much to pay someone $900 for this wire harness. But I guess it is a seller's market. I tried hunting down all the correct wire colors and fittings. It would not be cheap enough to remake it myself.
When you are doing yourself that wiring you will have to buy some material unless you can save some sockets or connectors, then you will realize that the asking price is justified!
Getting ready to reach out for steering wheel restoration again. I did not get any responses last time. The lighter blue is horribly yellowed and discolored. So we will just have to pick a color since there is nothing to match to. That paint will also need to be used to pain the plastic filler panels on the back of the steering wheel. Last time when I was asking for quotes I asked them to paint those parts at the same time.
Dennis Crooks at Quality Restorations did mine, perfect job. He also did the knobs. These are color cast like the original, not painted. Expensive, but quality always is. The grips will have the correct graining also.
https://qualityrestorations.com/
David
I told myself that I was not going to cut anymore of my vinyl until I got the rest of my order from SMS. But I decided to risk it and get some material cut to try to tackle my sun visors.
I got my join and top stitch done on my sun visors today. I did one thing differently then original. The original had a raw cut edge of vinyl exposed. I have the edge folded under to give a cleaner edge.
I need to move my electroplating parts out of my spray booth so I can glue a cotton batting to the back of these visor covers. I am at a conference this weekend so I might not do it till next week.
I do hope this turns out well, the only thing I am worried about now is sewing on the binding edge.
I am still worried about not having enough vinyl, I still do not have my last order of 2 yards from Nov 2020. Since SMS still hasn't shipped I may call and add a couple of yards to the order for safety.
Wow, I just got a look at where the weather-stripping prices have gotten to. it is going to be over $2000 for me. over $200 just for the rear vent window seals. if you count the rear vent divider bars about $400.
Quote from: Clewisiii on February 17, 2022, 09:14:58 PM
Wow, I just got a look at where the weather-stripping prices have gotten to. it is going to be over $2000 for me. over $200 just for the rear vent window seals. if you count the rear vent divider bars about $400.
I'm right there with you..
Johan
I am over 3k on the 55 Eldorado weather-strips/rubber components. Just the price to do high end cars.
Yes I already dropped over $600 on the body mounts, and I replaced all the bushings long ago. It would still be great to get the 61/62 door conduits. But they are still not reproduced.
These door strikers are available as reproduction. I planned to buy them so I felt there was no harm in trying to clean one up.
The acid dip was very reactive. But I think it cleaned up very nice. The only thing that didn't improve was the plastic.
Steven, Nylon is Plastic. Also goes by the PA for Polyamide.
I have looked into trying to get a CAD scan and reconstruct.
I have a lot of connections in rapid prototype. But it would be about $5000 minimum to get started. I have 100 pounds of pelletized Santoprene resin in my garage waiting for some day to be able to do it.
Quote from: Clewisiii on February 20, 2022, 11:17:35 AM
The only thing that didn't improve was the plastic.
Why bother? from the pictures, those parts are still good looking. They will travel more or less into the strikers, depending of their wear. Their function will be the same.
What are you using to clean the lighter and ash tray bracket?
The bracket itself wasn't "cleaned". I bead blasted it then electroplated the part with Zinc, then dipped in Yellow dichromate.
The light assembly was soaked in Rust rescue rust dissolver.
It cleaned up surface grime and internal rust that was a problem.
I had the need to spin my car on the rotisserie to take some photos. This car has been on the rotisserie since I sandblasted it in 2015. I have literally spun it completely around hundreds of times.
Acorns and mouse nest materials fell out commonly in the past. But I have been blowing out every cavity for so long I thought it was all gone. As I rotated today a small steam of sandblasting sand came out. Very odd. That hasn't happened in a long time. Then another acorn fell out. I guess something else broke loose.
I know the feeling.
It is the job that keeps on giving and giving when you thought it was all gone.
I sandblasted one of my cars, with the Blaster being 120 miles away. The Shell was vacuumed out, then put on a trailer for the tow home. Half way home, I rolled the car off the trailer and put it back on, the other way around, and continued on the trip. Boy, sand particles were constantly flying out as we went, and upon arriving home, there was still stuff in the nooks and crannies. This body shell had been primed as well, inside out, and yet, sand still got trapped.
Another car, we had Caustic Soda Blasted, and 10 years later, the owner is still finding remains in odd places.
Bruce. >:D
I needed to take a break from plating hardware. It is very slow and tedious.
I decided to work on the heater box.
Quick question. The bolts have a thin stamped T head. I think I will just need to buy some threaded rod and weld in my own thin T heads.
But before I do that does anyone know if these parts are available to buy?
Well I could not press them out. So I drilled them out. I will need to make some very flat spotwelds
Blasting, painting, and plating each piece.
Tomorrow I will weld new studs onto the case outer.
Why didn't I start cleaning parts with acid years ago. Makes sandblasting after much easier.
I welded in new studs, and sandblasted everything. Working through a paint coat now. Originally they didn't paint the inside. Which is odd since it is a high moisture area.
I have cleaned and painted all the hose clamps.
There are a few plastic pieces I need to work through. And I will need to buy new vacuum pots for the AC. I didn't buy them at $70. Now they are $110 each.
I kept the access panel seperate so that I can match up to the original paint.
From the color charts I have it is closest to SEM blue mist vinyl paint. But it is a little to dark.
Cleaning up my heater cable and it broke. Dang. A replacement shouldn't be hard to make.
Quote from: Clewisiii on March 05, 2022, 02:58:03 PM
I welded in new studs, and sandblasted everything. Working through a paint coat now. Originally they didn't paint the inside. Which is odd since it is a high moisture area.
One would be surprised what the factories didn't paint when building cars. These cars weren't designed to last forever.
These days with the immersion painting methods including E Coating, as in electronic painting, the paint gets everywhere.
I am recovering the seats in my '72 Eldorado Convertible, and none of the steel components that couldn't be seen, unless the seats were removed, were protected with any sort of paint or rust proofing.
Bruce. >:D
My in cab airbox has been cleaned up. I left the access panel alone in case I decided to match the original color and recoat.
I will have the heater core recored locally. The temp valve will be sent out.
I ordered all the gaskets. I need to order new duct hose. I need to replace one cable. My IP controls I did a few weeks ago.
Next is the underhood parts. The underhood box metal parts are riveted. I don't know if I am going to try to take apart and re-rivet. Or try to sandblast on the plastic. I don't really like that option.
I have not disassembled the AC yet.
So my current zinc anode are toast. I use two one on each side to get even plating. But each piece cost $20 from Caswell. They are very thin plate. I have bought 5 of those so far
I do not know how much more plating I have left. But for $50 I ordered a 6x12 inch 1/2 inch thick zinc bar for my next round. Should last me until I scrap all this. I might not play anything else for a few weeks until that shows up.
I received a shipping notification from SMS. I am waiting on 6 yards of trunk fabric from April 2020, and 5 yards of vinyl from an order in Nov 2020.
I don't know if it is one or both orders. But I will be happy to get that material order behind me. I decided i will not use the leather i ordered from SMS. The quality was terrible but it was not worth the fight to get then to take this back. I will have a hide custom dyed by someone else.
Carl (and all you others out there)
This thread is like the mother of all restoration threads?
I mean, more thorough and explanning wouldn't be possible, it's like the master shop manual for 61 Cad.
Love it!
Slava Ukraini!
Johan Lundgren / Sweden
My 6 yard fabric trunk liner order has arrived. In April it would have been 2 years since I ordered it.
I will happily complain about the time but I will also happily say it is a perfect match to my original spare tire cover.
I am still waiting on five yards of vinyl. That will be a 2 year wait come November
My new Zinc bar for my electroplating showed up today. About a week early. Here it is side by side with the Zinc plate I was buying for $20 each
This should last years.
I was so happy, I thought that the last of my order from SMS was arriving today and I would be done with them. The invoice on the shipper said 5 yards but it only measured 10 ft. So now I must work out with them that my order was short shipped that they marked as complete. I hope they accept that it is short.
The funny thing is when I ordered it in November 2020 they told be they would have to remake it. After a year and a half I get this partial roll of NOS. I just talked to her and she said they found this partial roll and if I wanted the other 1.5 yards I would have to wait for them to make more. My thoughts were what have I been waiting on this last year and a half. So they are giving me a refund.
No that I have extra material I am back to doing some sewing tests. This is my second sun visor test. Still not good enough so I will need to try again.
So Brazilian Rosewood is endangered and under import restrictions. So I have been searching for an alternative to restore my rosewood door panel inserts.
I have settled on Italian Palmwood. The grain and coloring is very close to the original. But compare the protected dark area under the grab handle, to the faded parts that were exposed. Here is a small sample of Palmwood with just a clear coat. It matched the faded area great. I am going to try some red stain to darken it up and make another sample.
I should have plenty for my four doors, plus sell a few sets to any other Fleetwood owners.
FYI, if you're willing to pay up, Brazilian Rosewood can be found. Musical Instrument building websites have legit legal pieces that can work if you can find it. I bought some in the US and I am waiting for some pieces from Spain.
That's an interesting observation by Steven. When I removed one of mine for refinishing, the part under the handle looked much darker than older pictures I've seen of these cars, or various guitars I'm familiar with.
I will accept it but question If it is true here since these are zinc and chromed. The chrome is inert.
For some reason I wanted to buy vintage luggage to match my cars interior to keep in the trunk. I am going to buy a matching travel make up case for tools and repair supplies.
Cutting new door cards is killing my wrist. And I need to buy new hole punches. I need some larger sizes and my old cheap set is not cutting well.
Ok next step. I need to find appropriate pop rivets to reinstall the top roll.
I need to redo the foam armrest top.
I need to order chipboard sheets as a base for the upper vinyl pieces.
I need to order new leather. I do not like the leather from SMS.
I will cut and glue on the lower carpet panels this weekend.
Testing different panel attachment fasteners.
The white birds beaks hold in the door panel much stronger. But they have very little tolerance in position and thickness. They also require bigger holes in the door panel.
The black Christmas tree style requires a smaller panel hole. And are not as critical for position.
I will not be able to reuse the original metal edge and nails. They are to deformed and rusted.
Checking the alignment of my panel attachment holes today. I had to make sure they were mirrored from LH to RH door.
They are. Now I need to transfer the holes.
I need to figure out the rivets for the upper roll.
The vinyl that binds the edge of the carpet is a darker color. I have bought a few samples. But I do not like anything I have yet. So I need to find 2 yards of vinyl so that I can make up the bottom carpet samples.
All attachment holes for front door have been transferred.
The lower carpet panels have been cut.
I must sew on the vinyl binding edge before I glue them to the panel. This is a darker vinyl compared to the rest. SMS did not have a reference for this. I have bought 4 different vinyls and I am still not happy. I will need to look some more.
Just curious but is that the same type of loop for the carpet? Looks slightly different.
My carpet is not loop. It is cut pile
Dang. I did not have any 1/8 inch washers to lock these pop rivets on the back.
I will need to pick some up on my way home tomorrow.
Took a minute to install those rivets. I could not quickly get washers with a small enough hole. So I had to hammer all of those with punches to bend them to lock to the washers
Back to this again. We will see if I can get the door panel upper sewn and wrapped tomorrow.
Over the last year I have made three test pieces of this blind pleat fabric insert.
Since the fabric is woven to reflect the pleats you have to be very good with your pattern and foam layout.
I t was a great success today. The pleats worked out well. Now I have to sew the pleated insert to the upper panel. Once I start it will go quick. But I am going to wait until my excitement that this is working go down so that I can focus.
And I screwed up. I had an out of position stitch. I will take this back apart and see if I can adjust and save it.
I really admire you in that you set out to learn the upholstery work, procure equipment, and take on that work yourself. What I see in the photos so far looks great!
I didn't get much interest is sets of these veneers. So I am just hand cutting my own for now.
The first is a perfect fit. Maybe I will cut these. Then stain and finish this weekend
I will still need to rechrome my trim pieces before I use them.
Quote from: Clewisiii on May 19, 2022, 08:32:47 PM
I didn't get much interest is sets of these veneers. So I am just hand cutting my own for now.
The first is a perfect fit. Maybe I will cut these. Then stain and finish this weekend
I will still need to rechrome my trim pieces before I use them.
That looks good. I don't think it gets any better than that.
A set of six cut out by hand. Fall out of about another six.
Cleaned and sanded and started adding stain.
One more fall out that I cracked staining .I need to let these sit till tomorrow and I will start applying clear coat.
First coat of clear.
Pic
It is time to sand and flatten the finish. Then a few more coats.
I will need to have a very light hand so that I do not break one sanding like last time.
Another coat at 2 pm. And another at 6. After that I should be done. I ordered another set of the chrome frames for the veneer. Just to give me extras in case I have fall out during rechroming.
They are done. I am happy. Original in center for comparison. It was $430 in materials to make these. I have a lot of extra.
I may make a custom center console with all original interior materials including wood veneer. I will build a small foundry set up and make custom zinc trim to have chromed.
So the goal is not to have a finished car. The goal is to enjoy every little step along the way, and celebrate every little success you can.
I needed another color of vinyl for the border edge for the carpet panels, and the lower skirt around the rear seat. I asked SMS and they did not have any references to match up this material.
I went to a local auto upholstery shop, that has been in business for 105 years, to reach out and ask for advice on a few of the things I am trying to do. I keep trying to pay the lady who runs it for her time, but she refuses to take money. She said she is just happy someone is excited to learn. I showed her my carpet sample and told her what I needed. She said that is Adriatic blue, and she found a supplier that had some scraps. Buying scraps plus shipping cost me $100. But I have been looking for a vinyl to work here for 2 years. So this week, or weekend, I am going to get these carpet pieces on the doors.
I will also be working on the rear parcel shelf. I bout a blue from SEM that I hope is right to match this darker blue.
On to cutting the parcel shelf. I might space these speaker holes farther apart then original. When it turns to swiss cheese it gets very unstable.
As you so well have taught us through this process, it's all in the DETAILS. Applying today's design cues, hues, and colors will not yield the full effect of the 1961 Cadillac design. I was fortunate to own a '61 convertible back in 1965...I recall my mother's comment when she saw my car for the first time with its red leather interior. She said, "It reflects what I think an exclusive men's golf club interior might look like." I thought, at the time and now,that she nailed it. Cadillacs of that period were the most lavish representation and expression of our design and culture. THank you for including us on your journey. James
Speaker holes cut. I don't like how soft the material gets after cutting. Now I need to transfer the attachment clips.
I have been trying to decide how to reattach these clips for a while now.
They were originally punch crimped into the panel board.
Some aluminum rivets hammered flat works great.
Well they are all in and they fit. Put a coat of black paint on the rivet heads. They will be painted again after wrapping. I just have to decide if I want to use this vinyl screen material.
This is really cool Carl - Its inspiring me to take on bits of my interior myself... I think getting the guidance of an experienced shop like you've been doing is a huge advantage
So do any of you know about the electric car company Faraday Future. I started doing interior work for them back in 2015. They have gone bankrupt 3 or 4 times since then. But at one time we were making a panel wrapped in speaker fabric. After they went under I kept some extra leftover material.
This is a finer fabric then original. But it is a real speaker fabric. I am thinking about wrapping my parcel shelf with this. And may do two layers with the vinyl material.
Well my materials are ready. But I do not want to mix glue. Then clean out the glue spray equipment starting this late at night. I will have this ready to glue spray starting at 6 pm tomorrow
So now my debate, do I leave just the first layer of smooth fabric, or do I put on the heavy screen over it.
Yup I do like the heavier layer. Glued that down then started the paint.
So the original was sewn around the perimeter before it was painted. I wasn't going to do that. Just rely on the glue. But now I am worried that over time, and under sun load, the glue would release from the vinyl screen. So I am going to sew the perimeter tomorrow then recoat with paint. Then on the weekend sew the front vinyl edge.
did you get that heavier layer material from SMS? is that their equivalent of what was on there originally? my shelf covering is disintegrating.
No I did not get that from SMS. I got it from eBay.
Well it is done. Perimeter sewn, painted, forward vinyl binding edge, and foam cut for install in the car. Now to see how many years this will sit waiting for reassembly
Lower carpet panels and binding installed to my front door cards. Now I need to restart working on the upper portions.
Back to working on the door panel uppers. Last time I had two problems. I tried to sew the cover to the original upper. But the edge was warm and causing issues keeping a straight line. The other problem was I tried to sew the cover loose over the backer.
So I made new upper cards. And I am using a multi stretch upholstery foam. This will allow me to glue the vinyl over the card. I could not do that with the original cotton material.
I went ahead and sacrificed some more material to cut a new pattern. I did not want to risk trying to stretch past the stitches.
I went ahead and looked at other areas and I think I can cut either the seat armrests or more sun visors out of this wasted piece.
Well I must let some glue cure then I can see this door panel upper
I do have one issue. The fabric piece has tape residue on it from the roll that SMS sent me. Before I sew these together I will attempt to clean this residue. If I cannot I will make a new fabric piece. I have extra fabric so I am not to worried.
Well I will not finish this today. I am going to pick up the cleaner tomorrow. Memorial day I do not want to go anywhere.
Ok that is annoying selecting user actions to see the reply button that will allow photos. Then adding photos then upload photos. This update is not intuitive. I am an adult I do not need to add an emoji but I need to add photos for technical feedback.
But anyway. After dragging my feet for a week I got around to sewing the perimeter of my fabric insert. It is perfect. I can glue these to the door panel, wrap the edges, then work on the piping edge.
I still need to make the armrest but I do not like my leather. And I do not know when I will buy more. So the armrests may wait a long time.
Just need the leather to do the armrest, then chrome redone, stainless polished. And this is done.
So i have one washer bracket painted black. And i have one that I did Yellow dichromate on. I remember that i had seen a NOS bracket that was yellow, and on my parts car the bracket has areas that the dichromate was still noticeable. Since someone was asking about NOSrestoredcadillacs recently, i looked them up again. And here is the nos yellow washer bottle bracket.
Working on my AC restoration. I ordered a new set of Vacuum actuators.
Does anyone know where I can get the rubber grommets for the vacuum hose and cables. I cannot find any on Rubber the right way or Old Air products.
I did see something that looked right on a classic Chevy site. But I cannot find it anymore.
Just playing with a new photo editing program. I am going to make some exploded views of some assemblies.
Well now that I've spent the last three days making my way through this thread, I must say... Amazing work! The quality of work and time you've put in is top notch. Makes me want to start a restoration even more. Can't wait to see what is to come.
Korry
Ever since my shop remodel I have not done any more body work on my car. And this has been 2 years. I will not sand or paint in the shop anymore. So I need to push it outside. But it is dirt outside my door and I cannot push the body on rotisserie over it. So I am having a pad poured outside the barn to connect to my driveway. I am still working through quotes. And do not believe anything can be poured until October. So I still will not be able to do body work till next year. The first quote was for $22000. Enough to paint my car twice or more. But the pad is a long term thing that will help with these issues in the future.
Perhaps some larger wheels on the rotisserie and gravel pad would work in the near term.
Cheers,Pat MacPhail
I ordered a set of four door sills from McVeys. These are getting expensive. But I was happy to get a set and even get one with the correct Fleetwood logo.
Sorry I do not want to open the plastic yet
I just spent a Sunday afternoon reading your post. I enjoyed it and found so much information both interesting and informative. Although my 87 doesn't need as much work you have inspired me.
Quote from: robailey on September 25, 2022, 11:38:48 PMI just spent a Sunday afternoon reading your post. I enjoyed it and found so much information both interesting and informative. Although my 87 doesn't need as much work you have inspired me.
Thank You. I try to be detailed, and celebrate every success or activity. My hobby is not to own the car, but to restore the car. So I am comfortable making mistakes and seeing what is possible or what I am capable of.
$120 for this Fleetwood trunk emblem from OPGI and I still have to paint it.
It took a few months to get. I ordered all the emblems for my car other then the Fleetwood dash emblem. Not available.
Everything else is still on backorder. One of them is saying estimate sometime in 2024.
Well I am a little annoyed. My new map light lense I bought from McVeys is actually more amber then the original. I wanted to replicate the original. Not the original plus 30 years of Nicotine.
One leg of my new hood V is bent. Sticks up 1/8 inch on the hood. But it is real light gauge compared to the original. It can bend back easy but I hate bending chrome.
I am issuing myself a challenge. I am going to fire up my engine this year.
Engine rebuild is done
Carb is restored
Fuel pump done
Water pump done
Generator done
Starter is done
I ordered a rebuild kit for the transmission
I need to recore my radiator
I will cerokote the manifolds in advance.
I will need to buy an engine wire harness.
Let me know what else I am missing. It will be on frame with no body and no drive shaft attached. I will just run from a gas can.
How long has it been since the engine was last started, or built?
If it has been a while, before you do actually fire it up, remove the Distributor and insert an Oil Pump Drive adaptor and spin the drive to pre-lube the engine.
If you aren't going to do this, remove the Spark Plugs, and Ignition Coil Lead, put a couple of squirts of oil into the cylinders and spin the engine visa the Starter Motor to get oil through. Don't leave the plugs in or you will be putting too much strain on the bearings.
Bruce. >:D
The engine has not been started since it's rebuild in 2020. So starting fresh. IMG_20200718_202116285.jpg
Okay.
What I do is firstly place the crankshaft in TDC, in the correct firing order for No. 1 and remove the Distributor, insert my home-made priming tool, and place a mechanical Oil Pressure Gauge in the Oil Pressure Switch spot, and then turn it in the direction of the distributor rotation.
After gaining Oil Pressure, rotate the crankshaft 45 Degrees, and prime again. Rotate the Crankshaft another 45 degrees, and prime. Keep doing this till you have completed two turns of the Crankshaft, and gone back to the original BTDC mark, and replace the distributor. As the oil pump has been turned, you will have to manually position the pump using the priming tool so that the Distributor simply drops down and engages the pump, with the Rotor facing in the correct position for No. 1 and you should be right to go.
The idea of rotating the crankshaft this way is to ensure that all the areas of the engine has been provided with oil, especially the Hydraulic Lifters.
Don't forget that if the Cam and Followers are new, you will have to do the running-in procedure for these parts.
Bruce. >:D
PS. I made my primer out of a piece of tub, and created a copy of the Distributor end on one end, and put an old Socket on the other end to enable the use of a Speed Brace to rotate it. The roll pin is placed in the tube to stop the possibility of the tool from going too deep onto the shaft, and getting caught, lifting the shaft up as the tool is withdrawn.
Incredible Carl. Thanks for sharing!
Seals and clutches arrived for my trans today. IMG_20230306_173101074.jpg
Carl,
Beautiful engine!
To add to what Bruce has written.
You might need to put the driveshaft yoke in the back of the trans to keep the fluid from coming out.
Use good break in oil such as Lucas or Brad Penn.
You want to have the engine fire immediately and keep the RPM at around 2000 for 30 minutes for cam break in.
Cheers,Pat MacPhail
Well I am dropping the trans off at a rebuilder next Wednesday.
I plan to drop off my manifolds for ceramic coating the same day.
Well it is in the back of the truck. Drop it off tomorrow morning. We will see if the 2-3 week timing holds IMG_20230314_182036392.jpgIMG_20230314_182036392.jpg
Managed to drop the trans off and drive out to West Michigan Cerokote to
Have my exhaust manifolds ceramic coated.
I am going to pull out my Radiator to get it ready to recore. And I may disassemble my frame again and have it powder coated. It has been sitting 7 years since I painted it and it is rusting again in spots.
Thank you Carl for sharing your "journey" with us. I am especially impressed that you're not cutting corners, specficially regarding those "areas" that might come back and haunt you when the car is all assembled. Recoring the original radiator is truly a great choice. I've had bad experiences with aluminum replacements that, in my optinion, don't have the necessary design and build quality to hold up under load, with a/c on, in the summer heat. James
I also reached out for a powder coat quote. I have a couple of areas on my frame that rust has come up through epoxy primer and supposed ceramic paint. But it has been sitting for 7 years.
So I will see if I can swing the price this summer.
image.pngimage (1).png
My quote for powder coating my Frame was just $1200. I was expecting a lot more.
So what do you think about the need, or desire, to replicate the markings on the radiator. IMG_20230316_200450605.jpg
Inline tube quote for stainless, brake lines, fuel lines, trans cooler, vacuum advance, choke tube, pump to carb line.
$575IMG_20230317_125951902.jpg
Now to decide how rich I am. Having my Radiator re-cord and looking at the radiator mount insulators.
I have cleaned my originals. They are still very rubbery, playable, and are complete. They just have some staining that will not come off.
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Now to buy new they are $34 a piece. I don't think $150 is worth replacing parts that are still good.
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THe price seems to me to be "a rounding error" considering all of the personal resources you've expended to date. I wonder if they're selling old new stock, in that case, the flexible parts may well be beyond their expected service life. If it's a choice, my vote is to get that GM radiator professionally serviced--- and with a thoroughly clean coolant passages, you'll not be hounded by over heating the engine, or "damaging hot spots" in the cooling circuits. Thank you for keep us in "your loop." James
Well my trans internals were rusty. We will see what it looks like after cleaning.
I didn't expect perfect after sitting for 45 years.20230322_132443.jpg20230322_130324.jpg20230322_125833.jpg
This was some of the rust out of the engine block when I took that apart.
FB_IMG_1580473028745.jpg
I bet these will work for my Fleetwood rear window drains. Found in a parts catalog for Impala. IMG_20230323_120153512.jpg
Those will work just fine for your drains. I inherited my parents 55,56,57 Chevrolet parts business when they passed, and I went through everything to see what if anything could be used on my 56 Cadillac.
Those drain hoses were just one thing that I was able to use, for both the front and back windows, but also for the AC duct drains on the fresh air intake hoses.
There are a lot of parts that cross over among the divisions of GM.
Unfortunately, there's a lot that are specific to Cadillac as well.
One thing that is universal are the screws that are used on the inside trim pieces. So I ended up with all new screws for that.
Having worked in parts for most of my career, I learned that if you just look around at the other brands, you can find many things cheaper than what is listed for a Cadillac, and even things only listed for other brands that are just the same as the one for a Cadillac but not listed or offered anywhere.
HTH, Rick
Heard from the Trans rebuilder. Everything cleaned up well in the thermo cleaning. So he is continuing with the rebuild. He has suggested I get a new Torus shell due to pitting on the seal surface of the shaft. No problem. 20230323_121205 (1).jpg
Does anyone have any personal Stainless Steel opinions. Speaking of brakes, fuel coolant lines. And Gas tank. Honestly the cost difference for all these in Stainless is minimal. And I am not worried about judging.
I think I decided I do not want stainless exhaust due to the sound difference. But I don't think there would be a functional difference for these other parts.
I won't use Stainless Steel for Brake Lines, simply as I make my own, and I don't want to wreck my dies with hard Stainless.
Plus, Stainless work-hardens when in flex and I don't want my brake lines to crack. When I do need Stainless Steel for Brake Lines, as in Marine use (for my boat trailer) I use Braided Brake hose and fittings.
As for Exhaust, I use Stainless Steel, but heavy wall stuff, like 2mm. Bends without crimping, unlike the thin stuff, and not as noisy.
With regards to Gas Tanks, only if I have to construct a new one.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: StevenTuck on March 26, 2023, 08:05:51 AMCarl, I too have gone to other GM suppliers for parts. It seems other marques are in higher demand therefore parts are more readily available. For instance, I needed the clips that hold the radiator overflow tube. I found the exact ones used by Cadillac through a Pontiac supplier. Two clips are required and attach to the right side of the radiator. There are places on the radiator where they attach.
Steven that would be great if you can tell me where you got them. I have been looking for those as well.
A lot of these "universal" or "standard parts", as GM refers to them, are also available through an outfit called Danchuk manufacturing. They make and sell stuff for the 55,56,57 Chevrolets.
What I've found is that generally one company will make a part, and then they sell it through several outlets, Year One, Danchuk, Old 55, Brothers Truck parts, Etc.. Just like Delco makes parts for Cadillac, they also supply Chevrolet, Buick, and GMC, and formerly Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and Saturn. You just have to do a little research.
Having worked in both aftermarket and for GM dealers, I've seen lots of examples of this.
Do you see any issue with Flex Plate surface rust.
I don't think there are any issues with it. But I would at least like to clean it up without causing more rust.
IMG_20230328_192649099.jpg
Looks perfectly good to me.
Bruce. >:D
Carl--- look very very carefully at those bolt-on "ears." About 50 years ago, my '61 had two ears that had split and caused a vibration on accerelation. Fortunately, I found a mechanic who spot welded the ears to the fly wheel. using the bottom bell housing entry as a easy way "in." (The car was "running on reputation" at that point, so removing the transmission or engine or both was not in the cards). James
So I picked up my Trans today. He had it for 2 1/2 weeks in total.
I paid
$1500 labor
$400 rebuild kit from Autotran.us
$80 for trans filter and a pair of better seals from Fatsco
$150 to the rebuilder for a Torus cover will a less pitted sealing surface.
The kit from Autotrans.us was missing one clutch plate. The rebuilder said the original was fine enough to reuse. If I did it again I would probably order the whole kit from Fatsco.
The goal is still to start this thing in June. I hope to have the frame powder coated at the end of April.
Radiator is the biggest thing actually holding it back right now. But I also might want to have a professional go through my distributor.
Carl, You likely know this well, but I'd make certain that your radiator is in excellent repair, and your cooling system is free of rust and debris. Back in 1966, I had my '61 Cadillac convertible engine flushed with a high pressure water tool at a local service station. I don't think any mechanic uses this approach now, but he took out the thermostat, and connected this high pressure water/compressed air device to the upper radiator hose and blasted away... I was shocked to see the junk that blew out of the top of the radiator of my 5 year old engine...I have noted that aftermarket cooling system filters are available, and one of those might serve well to capture junk before it enters a well cleaned radiator and a heater core. Hope this helps, James
And up here I was told by a radiator shop that they had to amend how they flush rads and use less aggresive chemistry. What I have noted is that now they don't get all the crud out. The greenies strike again. Clay/Lexi
Making room around this thing to start tearing it apart again. I think I will call the powder coater tomorrow to get on their schedule. He said call two the three weeks in advance.
My dog did not like me not giving him enough attention. Kept jumping up on me and clunked himself into the frame, fender, trans, and using a flat cardboard box as a surf board. IMG_20230403_200828058.jpg
I can tell by the sad look in his eyes that you aren't paying him enough attention.
Bruce. >:D
Bill's Collision in Highland is an old school radiator repair shop. I've had many recored there and it would kind of close to you.
Ok I have requested next Friday off and contacted the sandblaster to confirm the drop off of my frame and components. I will drive out to West Michigan Cerokote to pick up my exhaust manifolds that day to. I find it funny that my trans rebuild with ordering parts was done a week and a half quicker then coating my exhaust manifolds. I don't really care about the time it was just funny to me
There is a Cerokote source in Fenton I've used for 2 pair of exhaust manifolds and he did a great job.
https://www.cerakote.com/applicators/81545/cerakote-specialties
Coming back apart for powder coating. And the smell of Racoon piss is coming off on my hands.
Th whole reason I did the two year remodel of my shop was due to a family of six racoons who took up residence in the attic of my shop and Racoon piss dripping down rusted my recent body work and some frame rails. So taking care of that to give myself the best conditions to finish and store this car took a total of three years added to my build.
But I take all this to the media blaster next Friday. Hope to have it all back from powder coating by mid may. Engine on frame and started by end of June IMG_20230407_112419026.jpg
Has anyone found a better way to compress the front springs. A 5/8 rod through the shock mount is the best I have found. IMG_20230407_161839647.jpg
So the front springs are off. This was a new set of upper bumpers 6 years ago. Look at what sitting with no weight has done to them.
Looking at driver to passenger side, I think the pass spring was not seated properly. It was under more force then the driver side.
I just have to press out all the bushings and ball joints. I am not hopeful that I will be able to reuse them.
IMG_20230407_170618242.jpgIMG_20230407_170613383.jpgIMG_20230407_170623497.jpg
Well that is all stripped. I will start pushing out bushings tomorrow.
One of the upper A arm bolts decided to strip all threads rather then come loose. That was a little fun.
IMG_20230407_183504953.jpgIMG_20230407_183526675.jpg
Looks like I will be able to reuse most the bushings and ball joints if I choose to.
The only ones I will not be able to use are upper A Arm. The bushings get damaged with the way you must press them out. And the ball joint has an anti rotation flange on it that prevents me from fixturing it to press out. I may have to cut the tops to press them out. Still a success in my book however.
IMG_20230408_164022010.jpgIMG_20230408_164027558.jpgIMG_20230408_164047473.jpgIMG_20230408_164103987.jpg
Quote from: Clewisiii on April 07, 2023, 04:21:01 PMHas anyone found a better way to compress the front springs. A 5/8 rod through the shock mount is the best I have found. IMG_20230407_161839647.jpg
There is an actual spring compressor made specifically for these coil springs. It's got twin hooks on both ends that are unequal in length so that the center piece can sit level. Then the threaded shaft passes through the bottom one and threads into the top one.
If you use one, just be sure to keep the threads clean and lubricated. Also you should place the hooks as close to the ends of the springs as possible in order to have enough thread to compress the spring far enough, and have the hooks offset by 90 degrees to keep the spring from bowing out to the side. If you need it, I can post a picture of mine for an example.
The problem with using a piece of all-thread is the strength of it. I don't believe that you can get a piece that is a grade 8. From what I've heard, most all-thread is only a grade 2, much too weak for this. I guess if you use a big enough diameter, it might not be as bad, but you're limited by the hole size in the frame for your shock.
Rick
Quote from: Cadman-iac on April 08, 2023, 06:35:44 PMThere is an actual spring compressor made specifically for these coil springs. It's got twin hooks on both ends that are unequal in length so that the center piece can sit level. Then the threaded shaft passes through the bottom one and threads into the top one.
If you use one, just be sure to keep the threads clean and lubricated. Also you should place the hooks as close to the ends of the springs as possible in order to have enough thread to compress the spring far enough, and have the hooks offset by 90 degrees to keep the spring from bowing out to the side. If you need it, I can post a picture of mine for an example.
The problem with using a piece of all-thread is the strength of it. I don't believe that you can get a piece that is a grade 8. From what I've heard, most all-thread is only a grade 2, much too weak for this. I guess if you use a big enough diameter, it might not be as bad, but you're limited by the hole size in the frame for your shock.
Rick
I have a set of those. But due to the cavity the spring sits in not enough coil links are exposed to compress it.
Only like 3 or 4 coils are visible.
IMG_20230407_100504194.jpg
That's true for most vehicles. What I've had to do is dismantle the tool and fish the top hook set up through the spring, then position it on the highest loop of coil possible, then fish the lower hook set up into place, positioning it on the lowest loop of coil as possible, and then run the threaded shaft up through the bottom hook set and thread it into the upper hook set. Just be sure that the hook sets are offset by 90 degrees so your spring doesn't want to bow outward.
(I've had to use a screwdriver to push the hooks into place on the coil loops because there's just no other way to reach into the area you're working in. You also don't want to put the hooks too far apart because you only have so much threaded shaft to work with. If you're trying to remove the spring that's still in the suspension and under load,remember that you will have to have enough thread left once the spring is removed to be able to unload the tension on the spring in order to get the tool out and use it on the other side. If you position the hooks too far apart before you put the shaft in, you've got to remember that the unloaded spring will be a lot longer than the installed length, and you don't want to run out of threads before the spring runs out of load, or it's gonna go flying. Where the hooks usually end up is around two to three loops from the top due to clearance issues with the frame, and about the same on the bottom with clearance around the lower control arm).
Here's the tool I've got just for reference.
The hook set near the hex drive end is not threaded so that the shaft can be run through to the other set and threaded. If you've got one, then you already know that though. I mentioned it for anyone else that has not had the headache of using one of these before.
Rick
P.S. For those of you who don't have one or these, are looking to buy one, or are going to rent one for this job, please make sure that you are getting one made in the USA. The brands I've got are KD Tools, (which I believe to be the best one), and a Cal Tool unit, both made in the USA. The Chinese ones I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw it.
Thinking about how soon it will be until I can test fire my engine. A few things I want to get.
AMS oil for break in
Timing light
Voltage regulator
Condensers
Radiator needs to get finished soon
I know nothing about the distributor, I need someone to go through it or a really good tutorial.
The plan is to start it the week of June 19th. My Birthday. I know a few of you will be at Grand National that week so I will need to collect my materials and questions in advance
The last thing to separate are the upper A arm ball joints. I really think I will need to cut off the anti rotation flanges to push them out. I will need to cut off and replace these bumpers as well.
IMG_20230409_113757741.jpg
All the rest of the parts are ready for blaster. I will load up my trailer Thursday and drop off on Friday.
IMG_20230409_113818666.jpg
Then I need to start cleaning and organizing all the little pieces I am not shipping out.
IMG_20230409_113832215.jpg
Quote from: Clewisiii on April 09, 2023, 09:16:31 AMThinking about how soon it will be until I can test fire my engine. A few things I want to get.........
The plan is to start it the week of June 19th. My Birthday. I know a few of you will be at Grand National that week so I will need to collect my materials and questions in advance
I would not be advising the test starting of any engine that has been rebuilt, just to see and hear it running, and then put it aside for possibly years.
Running it without getting it up to proper operating temperature, and performing all the running-in procedures will not allow the Cylinder Heads to settle in and completely perform their capacity to seal, and stay sealed.
I rebuilt a '59 Thunderbird years ago, and did just that. Fired it up, and ran it for a short time. Then the owner wanted a complete nut and bolt restoration on the car, so the engine sat around. When I finally got it going, it wasn't long before the head gaskets failed, and water got into the cylinders.
When I removed the Heads, they simply fell off, unlike normal heads that need a bit of levering because the gaskets had worked and completed their intended sealing.
An easy fix, BUT, not in a completely repainted, rebuilt car where one had to lean over the fresh paint on the Fenders.
Bruce. >:D
Well once I know the engine is running the body is getting the firewall painted and going back on the frame perminently. The paint shop wants the car drivable so I must get it to that point. It will be 2 years for me to save the money for paint. But I will be able to get a seat in it and the steering column from my parts car.
The truck and trailer is loaded up to take this to the sand blaster and powdercoater.
IMG_20230413_191854904.jpgIMG_20230413_190606332.jpgIMG_20230413_190055008.jpgIMG_20230413_185831662.jpgIMG_20230413_185626277.jpgIMG_20230413_185626277.jpgIMG_20230413_185511101.jpgIMG_20230413_185418186.jpgIMG_20230413_185256068.jpg
One matter to remember when reassembling the chassis is that the Powder Coating will slightly decrease the diameter of the holes, and vice verca the OD of the shafts, making the pressings-in of the bushes just that little bit tighter. Not much, but a little.
Bruce. >:D
The only ones I am worried about are the trailing arms and yoke over rear end. Those ones flex the most during pressing
You are using the inserts to stop the flexing?
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on April 14, 2023, 02:33:14 AMYou are using the inserts to stop the flexing?
Bruce. >:D
Well I have been using sockets as inserts. I have more sizes there.
I picked up my exhaust manifolds from West Michigan Cerokote.
They look nice. Now I need to buy new bolts to install. The originals did not survive disassembly
IMG_20230414_150648747.jpg
Notice the web in this LH manifold. This is a replacement I bought. The part number is the same for 61-64 but the early ones did not have this web. And they cracked in this location. So all is 61-62 people are buying up the parts from 63-64.
IMG_20230414_150652186.jpg
Here is my original.
IMG_20230414_150730033.jpgIMG_20230414_150733566.jpg
I decided to remove my rear disc brake conversion and go back to drums. Opening up the original cylinders and a mess falls out. I will have to decide if these will be rebuildable. IMG_20230414_161531933.jpg
If you cannot purchase new ones, then they can be rebuilt by a good engineering shop. They will bore out and insert Stainless Steel Sleeves.
As for pressing in the bushings, the sockets can be used for the outside pressing Mandrel, but you need to support the area that is between the two sides. Here, "U" Shaped steel pieces need to be used to stop the crushing.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: Clewisiii on April 14, 2023, 03:15:34 PMNow I need to buy new bolts to install. The originals did not survive disassembly
I have new, correct bolts with undersize heads, let me know if want a set.
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on April 14, 2023, 09:37:12 PMIf you cannot purchase new ones, then they can be rebuilt by a good engineering shop. They will bore out and insert Stainless Steel Sleeves.
As for pressing in the bushings, the sockets can be used for the outside pressing Mandrel, but you need to support the area that is between the two sides. Here, "U" Shaped steel pieces need to be used to stop the crushing.
Bruce. >:D
Tassie that is what I have been doing. Four sockets around the bushing on the inside. I have gathered up from my boxes various brands to find the right height for each cavity
Quote from: David King (kz78hy) on April 15, 2023, 08:48:16 AMI have new, correct bolts with undersize heads, let me know if want a set.
Yes. Can you share a picture
Carl, Here is the link. I can deliver them today if you like. I need to wake up a car anyway and 30 mile trip might be perfect.
http://www.keepemrunningautomotive.com/engine.html
David
Quote from: Clewisiii on April 15, 2023, 08:50:39 AMTassie that is what I have been doing. Four sockets around the bushing on the inside. I have gathered up from my boxes various brands to find the right height for each cavity
That is a different way of doing it.
Bruce. >:D
First time using POR15. It is a hard glossy finish. But it pulled back from the metal edges.
I am painting the brake line and exhaust hanger brackets. Did not send those out for powdercoat.
IMG_20230419_185437694.jpgIMG_20230419_185447432.jpg
Preparing parts that will not be powdercoated for painting. I am going to spray POR15 so I am waiting on a quart of POR15 solvent for thinning. IMG_20230430_111608706.jpg
Most masking tapes on the hardware shelf are 3/4 inch wide. I remember people in the past talking about cutting it down to 1/2 inch for retaping the body mounts in place. Well good thing for Amazon I can order the exact size I need. Screenshot_20230501-112912.png
I got the call today. My frame and other components are moving to the powder coater.
I never like asking prices on things. I feel its noone elses business. But what is the ballpark for sandblasting frame, and powder coating. In the same boat with my 1960. If you don't want to indulge that info., No offense taken. Keep up the good work man, Looking really good.
Quote from: Chicken Coupe on May 03, 2023, 10:04:26 AMI never like asking prices on things. I feel its noone elses business. But what is the ballpark for sandblasting frame, and powder coating. In the same boat with my 1960. If you don't want to indulge that info., No offense taken. Keep up the good work man, Looking really good.
No problem. I will tell anyone any price I received. It only helps people I feel.
The sandblaster told me $450. I thought that was cheap. I paid him an extra $50 to take it to the powder coater.
The quote for powder coat which is epoxy first then top coat was $1200. I don't know yet if that will be the final price. That is frame and 17 various bracket pieces.
This is what I provided to the powder coater so I hope their quote is good.
But sometimes I am to detailed and it scares people off. Two steering wheel restoration guys would not return my calls after I gave them a presentation with photos and diagrams of my wheel defining all the cracks and repair needed.
image (3).pngimage (4).pngimage (5).png
It waited a couple of days longer then I wanted. But frame brackets are ready. I need to order the replacement bushings to reassemble the frame when it gets back from powdercoater.
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Waiting for the call from the powdercoater to schedule picking up my frame. Excited to get the engine and trans installed to frame in June.
I ordered the new upper A Arm bumpers. I remember how much of a fight it was installing these last time. After 6 years in place with no weight on the frame the other set were destroyed. IMG_20230513_155027617.jpg
Could someone tell me about the differential. Last time I opened it, cleaned it, installed new axle bearings, and a new pinion seal. But I think I deformed the pinion seal. The new style are very thin compared to original.
I may pay a shop to replace the seal and just look over my work. Can the pinion itself be replaced. I am going to have a new drive shaft cut. I wonder if that shop should look at the diff as well.
Carl,
I recommend Warren Gear & Axle. https://warrengearmi.com
They put together my 55 Eldorado rear end that was completely taken apart by the previous owner.
David
You cannot replace a pinion on its' own. The Crown Wheel and Pinion come as a matched set.
Bruce. >:D
Radiator just dropped off for recoring. He was almost apologetic that it would take 5 days. That is nothing.
Waldron's says it is a 8-10 week lead time for an exhaust. I would like to get one before I try to fire up the engine. I may buy something for temporary use.
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I have a question about battery cables.
The listing said not original spring connectors.
I have not checked my Fleetwood but this has the same connectors as my parts car.
Maybe my parts car wires had been replaced. Or maybe the spring connectors stopped earlier then they have listed.
What are your thoughts or opinions.
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Dug out my original. No big difference to me.
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The spring clamps are correct, but they are also annoying (get loose and sloppy). I'd go with the bolt- ons. And maybe go oversize while you're at it.
I have to say I am getting very excited about being able to start my engine soon. I feel like that will also be a big psychological hurdle.
I keep saying the the next step was just to expensive to get past. But after this I have a series of sub $1000 hurdles. The next big expense is paint and interior chrome. But I can work on the remaining chrome over time.
I am happy.
"I am happy." As are many of us who are following your extensive and lengthy restoration Carl. Impressive accomplishments,expertise, and determination. Happy day, James
I got the phone call. My frame is ready. Last week she said it was scheduled to start on the 25th now it is done on the 22nd. I think I am taking a short day at work on Wednesday to go and pick it up.
The radiator should also be done by then
I don't know how to interpret the difference between the bushings I bought 5 years ago. And the new set I have to reassemble my frame.
I like the way the rubber is molded in the new ones. But the previous drawn metal casing seems smoother. But I think it may also be weaker. The upper flange was bending quite a bit when I was pressing the old ones in. IMG_20230522_204135467.jpg
Can someone tell me about these. Because I do not remember taking them off. Screenshot_20230522-214458.png
Could they be the locking tabs for locking the rear Universal Joint to the Diff Pinion Flange?
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on May 23, 2023, 02:05:05 AMCould they be the locking tabs for locking the rear Universal Joint to the Diff Pinion Flange?
Exactly. Were used from 1957 to 1962 and 63-65 on 75, CC.
I picked up my frame and brackets from the powdercoater. Hard to get that off my trailer alone without scraping it. I will unpackaged all the little bits and work on getting it back together this weekend.
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Another pic in the garage .
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I picked up my freshly recored radiator today. I had told them don't worry about painting it. I will do that myself. I am glad I did.
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First thing I noticed that the new copper side plats were solid and smooth. I asked him about the holes for the radiator overflow tube clips. He said in 30 years he has never had anyone ask about that. He said I can cut holes in the plate as long as I do not go deep.
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I loaded it in my trunk and was a mile down the road until I noticed something in my memory. The overflow tube coming out of the fill neck was pointed in the wrong direction. It was pointing forward. I pulled into a strip club parking lot and checked my trunk. Yup it is backwards. I turned around and went back. He looked at it and I showed him a picture. He called a guy up and asked him to take it off and resolder. I showed him the picture were it is to the back angled to the outside edge. I talked to the guy at the counter for a while and he came back with the tank. Tube angled to the back middle of the tank. Well third time is the charm. He went back and fixed it.
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I know things happen. And no one is perfect. And how were they supposed to know what angle the tube needed on a 61 Cadillac. But that only explains the first mistake. Not the second. I am going to go measure everything to make sure the overall dimensions are correct. It would suck to find out the new core is 1/2 inch taller or shorter and will not fit in place.
Installing these upper A Arm bumpers was much easier this time. No fighting at all. They pulled right through IMG_20230525_185135488.jpg
I was worried about buying these because they were from a generic listing that did not say application or size. I almost feel I lucked out on a perfect fit
When I have to fit tight rubber parts, a dab of Rubber Grease works well.
Bruce. >:D
PS. Don't forget that having previously done the same task, the second time around is usually easier, as you know just how much the parts will take to get them in.
I got the ignition wire harness from Electric Limited today. Just getting the stuff needed for starting the car for now.
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But I have some problems with the Bushing/Ball joint kit I bought from A Resto Parts. They are just slightly off.
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The new pins are shorter then the old set from Rare Parts.
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The new A Arm bushings are to small. They can slide in by hand. So I will need to order a new pair of these bushings. I don't know about the lower yet.
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Every little success or step forward should be celebrated.
And any step back is just another opportunity for a different step forward.
The goal should be the act of doing. Not the end product.
Otherwise you may go insane.
I realized my parts car has the trans linkage shield in place. I hope it is covered with enough oil to have survived intact.
Found the locks.
Some reason I was thinking they would be larger.
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And still reuseable. Only one each of the locking tabs has been bent.
Bruce. >:D
It has been in the 90s this week. I decided I did not want to work out in the barn after work. But it has only gotten up to 74 in the barn so I could have done something.
I bought a new set of press collars and tools. And some sheet rubber to protect the parts during pressing.
I have been very happy with the restored fasteners I have gotten from Jason Edge. But I have to be careful with the dog. These are expensive bolts and if I put one down he takes off with it.
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Pressing in those upper A Arm bushings sucks. They do not fixture or support well. And the support damaged my fresh powdercoating. But I can touch up the scrapes with some POR15.
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I had NOT forgotten how much of a pain it is to install and align the bolts for this rear yoke.
But this was easier then the first time. Able to fit it with a lot less beating.
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I could not find a set of ground straps for the upper AArms. So I decided to make a set. Less then $30 and I have enough to make 50.
Now I just need to find an appropriate screw for the attachment to the AArm
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@Clewisiii Where did you get this set?
Quote from: 6262 on June 06, 2023, 12:29:55 AM@Clewisiii Where did you get this set?
I bought the material on Amazon and crimped my own.
In the interest of continuity, you may want to solder your terminals in addition to the crimp just to be sure you have a good connection.
I solder every terminal myself to ensure there are no problems.
I realize that these are just ground straps, but the solder would help keep the strap from pulling out of your terminals if there were any stress on them for some reason.
Rick
My front springs are ready to reinstall. But man I hate it. These seem to compress by half just for install.
I may wait until the engine and trans is in place just so that the front springs have some type of weight on them while sitting.
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Yeah, the problem with no weight on your suspension is that the bumper stops are squashed, unless you leave them out until after there's enough weight on the frame so you can install them without any pressure on them then.
Your frame looks great though.
Rick
G'day Carl,
The best method is to cut some pieces of hardwood to the desired height, and simply put them in place of the coil springs. Complete the car build, and when there is sufficient mass on the front end, then use the vehicles weight to aid in fitting the actual springs.
Bruce. >:D
It is a little nerve racking cutting the holes for the radiator overflow clips. Every little slip drilling the corner holes was scary. But I think I did fine. I don't think that I actually touched the inner tubes and they seem to be as tough as this outer plate which took a bit to actually drill through.
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I ordered my exhaust from Waldron's today. I got stainless steel. I also ordered the heat riser spacer from Caddy Daddy with a few other odds and ends.
My distributor is boxed up in my car. Waiting for me to drop off at the post office.
Waiting to hear about my trans cooler lines. They should be done this week or early next week
So I am excited. Feeling motivated.
Light dusting on the core. I will get a couple of coats on the tanks.
I ordered the overflow clips. I ordered the radiator hoses. And I have a set of NOS hose clamps.
I still hope to set the motor next week.
But I don't believe I will start it till October.
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What are your thoughts on radiator caps and originality.
I think the authenticity manual says they are gloss black. I have my original but I assume the temp spring is probably inaccurate now.
Would you just pick one up at the parts store. Or is there a more appropriate option.
Heat Riser Spacer. $100
There is a steel shop and a laser cutter around the corner from me. I should try to make some money.
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Well I managed to get this ball joint for $140. Still expensive
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Looking at my parts car, and the bracket on the rh manifold. I remember the bolt on the front. But I do not remember the rear
The parts car was already apart and a few things switched out. What goes to the rear of this bracket on a 61 with AC.
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The bracket on the exhaust manifold looks to be the generator bracket
Definitely looks like a generator bracket.
Quote from: David Greenburg on June 19, 2023, 01:44:40 AMDefinitely looks like a generator bracket.
Yes I remember using the front side of this bracket
But I cannot remember how the back engaged. I will find out in a couple of weeks
Very surprising what a quick trip through an acid bath can do to clean up these brackets. Anyone else a a surprising acid trip?
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Tedious. Beyond tedious. Jason does not have all the restored fasteners I will need for my 61. And some parts are too big for my small plating set up. So this batch is going to a yellow zinc plater to be barrel plated.
Bead blasting out every thread. I have worn through the gloves in my blasting cabinet.
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Thank you
@StevenTuck for guinea pigging the Corvette door conduits. My set showed up today.
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As for the generator bracket, doesn't that bolt on the rear simply go through the bottom mounting hole on the generator case?
Quote from: StevenTuck on June 20, 2023, 06:54:52 AMYour welcome.
I ended up using one screw on the back side of the body mount end. It was sticking out a bit when the door is closed. Also the door side tends to bunch up because the door hole is smaller than the conduit. I placed the bunched side on the back at the door. I guess you could cut out a section and let it overlap but I was a bit leery of doing that. My thoughts are that cut a section would cause the conduit to split all the way over time. I also thought about using the original conduit bracket. It too was smaller than the opening thus causing the same bunching. I am just happy to get something that works at all.
I still don't understand why Steele Rubber hasn't reproduced one for sale. They would make money with all the Cadillacs sold between the two years. I spoke to someone at Steele and he indicated that it was complex to produce a reproduction.
I worked in automotive plastics and went to one of my prototype molding suppliers. To have an aluminum tool cut would have been $5000 at that time. Then the effort of modeling the boot in CAD. Then the machine time and material to run them off. Looking at $10000 investment for me to do it myself. I would need to sell a hundred to break even.
I dropped the bins of hardware off at the platers. Only $200. Should have them back in a week. Then discover how many important small bits were lost in the tanks.
Quote from: Clewisiii on June 20, 2023, 10:55:53 AMI dropped the bins of hardware off at the platers. Only $200. Should have them back in a week. Then discover how many important small bits were lost in the tanks.
LOL Think positive Carl ! Maybe a long lost Cadillac hood ornament hiding in those tanks will be in your batch.
Mike
I think I have cleaned this jar now 4 times. Could still use another pass.
I had one bracket painted black and one yellow chromate. I decided to plate both back to yellow chromate. I can always paint one later if I decide to. This jar was hard to fight back out of that bracket.
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Today will be another coat of paint on the engine and trans. The engine is currently Bill Hirsch, the trans is Eastwood Cadillac Blue.
Honestly I like the finish of the Eastwood much better. But the bill Hirsch is a better color.
In the future the valve covers will need to be replaced or some serious body work. They were very pitted. I was going to try to spend a lot of time on my parts car valve covers but the flange is bent and warped. So those are a no go.
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Sorry to be what might seem to be a downer, but it like you will have your work cut out in trying to cover up all that rustification/corrosion on the Rocker Cover.
The trouble you might encounter is with the heat of the engine creating problems with the filler required to fill the depressions.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on June 21, 2023, 07:23:06 AMSorry to be what might seem to be a downer, but it like you will have your work cut out in trying to cover up all that rustification/corrosion on the Rocker Cover.
The trouble you might encounter is with the heat of the engine creating problems with the filler required to fill the depressions.
Bruce. >:D
I will sand away half. And fill the rest with high heat lab metal.
Bill Hirsch is slow drying. Says so right on the label when warning about reducers. Last time took over a day to dry. Especially on bolt heads.
Which is really annoying since they decided to paint the power steering pump pulley blue. That does not directly attach to the engine. I am going to have to wait a day to flip this over and paint the other side.
But I started early and it will be 87 today. So I hope it helps to "bake" in the paint.
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Finally, the whole reason I built this contraption is going to pay off.
I need to stop by harbor freight to see if they have a lifting plate or balancer bar.
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Looking forward to seeing the finsihed results. Clay/Lexi
When I first pulled apart the motor everyone warned me not to lose this part. That it often goes to the machine shop and gets lost in cleaning tanks.
Well after years of floating around in my garage labeled simply as "You Know What This Is" it will be reinstalled this weekend.
Can anyone actually confirm the function. Does it just act as a spacer or like a thrust bearing?
Why didn't the just not machine the crank as deep to eliminate the need. IMG_20230621_145400226.jpg
Quick note. Soon I am going to ask for info on the complete stack up of gaskets and materials for the carb. I know about a year ago there was an article in the Quick Starter. But I think that was mostly about the Carter and not the Rochester.
Thanks in advance.
9 years ago I bought these spark plugs the day before I actually picked up my car. When I naively Thought I could break it free and tune it up to run. In that time they have only been used for dust plugs. I need a new set now. IMG_20230621_165202797.jpg
I love Bill Hirsch paint....its always spot on. Nothing upsets me more than seeing a beautiful Cadillac with the wrong color engine paint.
G'day Carl,
What is wrong with simply cleaning off the paint from the plugs. Simple to do with a wire wheel.
Plus, before using your nice new electric hoist, check to see just how slow, or fast, the weight is raised or lowered when you press the correct button. If it is fast, then you will have to be careful when lowering the engine into its position, as it will be difficult to move it slowly to where it has to go, and clear stuff.
If it is fast, you can slow it down by using a couple of extra pullies in the cable to really slow it down. Turning it into a three or four pulley system will make using it a dream.
This is one reason why I like using either a chain haul, or my mechanical jack with my own crane, as those Hydraulic lifts can get too jerky when critically lowering.
Bruce. >:D
Thanks Bruce. It is slow. I already have it double pulled.
What is it Wednesday
Going through boxes and bags finding all the little pieces I need to build up the engine. Came across this bag. This stuff has been in there maybe 7 years.
Top of gas tank pad to body
A Arm ground strap
Wiper motor broken ground strap
E Brake cable to trailing arm clamp
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I just wanted to see what it looked like with the manifolds on.
It is true two bolts are shorter then the rest. By about 1/2 an inch. I will work on that.
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In making a rod to prime the oil with a drill, do I remove the existing rod and go right down to the oil pump itself. If I remember right that is just a slotted rod. Where the top of the existing rod to distributor is round with a flat spot on one side.
Here is the one I made.
I put a roll pin in it so that there was no chance of it grabbing the oil pump drive and thereby lifting it out of the oil pump.
I drove a 5/8" socket on the other end to enable be to turn the pump with a Speed Brace in the Counter Clockwise direction.
At the time I made this, I didn't have a reversible drill to drive it backwards.
Bruce. >:D
PS. I made the drive before assembling the engine, and used the oil pump intermediate shaft to hammer the correct shape to duplicate what was at the bottom of the Distributor.
Cutting down two bolts. Still plenty of thread to engage.
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I put the front springs back in. I am going to put the steering back in place before I drop in the motor. Just want the access.
I had to use the 5/8 rod through the shock mount again. I have purchased two differentsets of internal spring compressors but I could not get them to work. Access, sliding, and not having enough travel to close up the springs enough to install.
The rod was slow. But safer.
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Detour
I got the call. I dropped these off on Tuesday morning and they are ready Thursday afternoon.
I have hit gold.
No I need to separate this all out. I actually need a few for the immediate reassembly.
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What a pleasant surprise.
Bruce. >:D
Not quite, but I'm channeling "The Solid Gold Cadillac" based on your extraordinary effort, workmanship, and now "gold" parts! Happy day, James
WOW !! Jackpot !! 8)
Mike
Well I had to do some careful light blasting on my steering components before paint. This is all new. But had been sitting for years.
The goal is still to get this in to night. And the engine and trans on over the weekend.
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From the two front end sets I have purchased, I have two different lengths of sway bar links.
Does length not matter that much? Or does someone know the correct length.
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Other then the decision on the stabilizer links. Everything is back in place. Nothing tightened, and of course it will need an alignment once everything is all back together.
I am ready to place the engine in place tomorrow.
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It's looking absolutely fabulous!
Great job.
So a little set back. There are some bolts I cannot find. The trans mount bolts. For mount cover and mount itself. I remember the mount cover bolts were painted. I never sandblasted or repainted those. But in searching my bolt boxes I cannot find them.
My issue in trying to use a replacement bolt I am finding nothing that fits. It feels like the threads are stripped. I am either going to have to find the original bolts to see if there was something different about the threads. Or tap bigger or helicoil. This may hold me up to reinstall till next weekend.
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Shims for trans and carrier bearing.
I have three shims in total, and judging by slight spacing difference, one is for carrier and two for trans.
I remember reaching in and pulling out a spacer on the carrier bearing. But the trans spacers confuse me. The mount rubber goes through the frame. So really this is just acting as a washer on the bottom side, and cannot be acting as a shim.
So why are there 2.
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Found them. I did plate them. I photographed that they went together. But I forgot to photograph the old bag label.
Still do not understand the shims yet.
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Well nevermind the rubber mount does not pass through the frame like I thought. It sits on top. You can just see the markings from the round mount pads.
Well I can move forward. Planning to reinstall tomorrow now.
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I still have not decided what length of stabilizer link to install. But I do think they will be easier to install with engine weight.
Right now the angle is preventing the bolts with bushings to fully pass through the bottom bushing.
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I am sitting here trying to figure out which one I should install first. The motor mounts and single trans mount are on opposite ends. So either one needs to be supported while I try to install the other. Trans is lighter so I assume I should do that second to be easier to maneuver.
Well it was the motor first. I supported the back end with bucket and blocks on roller
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But I had my motor mounts on backwards. The flanges go to different sides from one side of the engine to the other. I had to order flipped so the motor was slightly crooked.
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It was a little fight getting the trans aligned. With bell housing bolts and flex plate nuts.
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I still need to go through and torque everything down. But it is all there. Now I can get these engine stands out of my shop. The one the motor was on is going to the road. It has been a pain to move for the last 8 years.
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I aired up the tires of my parts car, and dragged it out of its hole. I realized it has a trans linkage cover. I don't know what shape. My only hope is that it is covered in grease and oil and has been protected.
I also thought the exhaust was completely missing. But it is still hanging there. This will give me a chance to take a good look at the hangers that are missing in my car.
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Lovely new garden bed in front of the car. ;) ;)
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on June 25, 2023, 01:35:11 AMLovely new garden bed in front of the car. ;) ;)
Bruce. >:D
High iron content.
I need smaller hands. Big washer split washer and nut upside down with limited access.
I don't know why they could not put a motor mount access hole directly under.
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Well I got one side on. A fight with this side. I have used a pair of clamps to try to compress the stack enough to get some threads exposed for the nut.
But I am now sweating and it is lunch time.
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Now that I am on to reassembly, I need to buy a couple of new torque wrenches. I do not want to pass by anything until I know it is correct.
One other benefit to getting these bolts in place, the bags and boxes are emptying and going away.
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Just setting things in place and verifying all nuts and bolts.
I think I am going to replate tfd generator fan and pulley. They have been sitting for 6 years and I don't think I had a good coating on them originally.
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Remembering what I started with. Unfortunately I was so excited in the beginning, when I thought I could break the engine free, that I did not take a lot of pictures of all the things on the front of the engine. THis is really the only shot I have. And it does not show much.
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The rest of my pictures all start here.
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I guess it is time to remove the disc brakes and clean this up again. I replaced the bearings and pinion seal years ago. But I think I dented the seal so I worry it will leak. I think I will bring this to a shop to go over it and make sure everything is perfect.
I decided I am going to keep the drums on the rear. So I need to go through all those components. The disk kit fits the original wheels but they push them out 3/4 on each side so the gap to the fender skirts is to small for me.
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I will need a new drive shaft cut.
I know the original has one side with an inner and outer with a rubber between them. I assume this resists vibration in driving.
I am told a new cut one will not have this type.
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You are correct. The original rear shaft consisted of two tubes, with a rubber sleeve keeping the two apart. The pictured one used 4 sleeves. This is usually found on upmarket, and long wheelbase cars where the actual driving feel is really quietened.
This sleeve never wears out, and without the proper tools, is impossible to replicate. The assembly is similar to that of a harmonic balancer, where the rubber separates the hub from the outer ring.
I have had a couple of these apart, just to see what is there, and I would hate to try and imagine the pressures required to assemble them.
Bruce. >:D
My distributor has been rebuilt and recurved on its way back to me.
That should be in soon.
I will be asking certain questions about setting the timing soon.
Laying out parts I am hoping to have sand blasted over the next few weeks.
I will need to do metal work on a few parts. Then they will be powder coated.
The sandblaster has recommended I try to burn off all the undercoating before they blast.
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I finally managed to get the nut on the top of this link. Only took three tries.
I will still need to torque it eventually
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Took a minute to press that hub out. At first I thought I was doing something wrong.
I will not need the front drums with the hubs. But I decided I might as well restore the parts. The drums are common with rear anyway so I will have spares.
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Well I got a few lines from Inline tube. They appear to be mostly correct. Only a couple of bends I need to manipulate.
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However the vacuum advance line was very wrong. I will need to deal with that.
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Does anyone know if the choke tube into the intake should be tight. Because this one is loose fitting
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I just need to find my pictures on which goes top and bottom.
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Then put a slight bend on this side.
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I think there is a clamp to I have to locate.
I've ordered from Inline before and had to modify both pieces. I have a feeling they're about 80% accurate with their bends.
Well here is how the tubes come out from under the engine.
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And here is the location of the clamp.
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The clamp is a pass through hole, and the only bolt I know of near that location would be an oil pan bolt. But I do not think that is right. I will need to jack up my parts car to get a look.
Really the only spot that looks correct would be an oil pan bolt.
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I was missing one when I tore down the engine. Maybe I had removed one when I took off this bracket.
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If the attachment is an oil pan bolt that would make sense that this has a non threaded pass through bolt. It acts as a spacer to get around the lip of the oil pan. IMG_20230628_200804923.jpg
My passion is always in the details. These random little things I often find more pleasure in them the big stuff. A simple AC hose bracket.
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Somewhere I have the radiator support brackets. I have already sandblasted and painted them. But now I cannot find what box they are in. I think some sorting and organizing of what is left will be necessary this weekend.
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So the wires on this coil seem to be completely wrong. Total of 5 wires going to the coil here. So I don't know what is going on.
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Picked up a correct Vacuum advance tube from inline tube on my lunch break today.
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Great attention to detail and parts restoration. Clay/Lexi
My distributor is back. Now a question. Do I paint it blue or leave it black as they painted it.
I remember mine had some blue. I still have the tag and it has blue on it.
But I assume the distributor would have been painted before it was assembled to the engine.
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At the request of my sandblaster I torched as much of the undercoating off of my inner fenders as possible.
Not my favorite thing to do in 90 degree heat. And the fumes have probably shortened my life.
But I have to say I am very thankful the original owner paid for the undercoating.
My 61 parts car came from the same town. And that had a lot of rot.
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The parts made it to the sand blaster today. 4 drums and 16 under hood metal pieces I should have back next week. I forgot to bring one behind headlight panel. I will need to blast that myself.
Found them. My radiator support brackets. And I have emptied 5 totes do far in cleaning. I filling out label information for the other totes. I may spend the rest of next week just cleaning and organizing storage.
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Successful cleaning day. Emptied 5 totes. Collected 3 totes of obsolete parts I will not toss until I am completely done. Sorted and labeled by area. Collected a few more pieces that I will have powdercoated.
But best of all opened up a lot of tabletop space to work through my next batch of parts.
One thing I am thinking about is the firewall insulation panel. I think a plastic reproduction was made. Has anyone purchased or used one for 61-62. I remember random screws across the panel. My original was completely rotted
I clean up my fuel filter housing. And a spare. I am waiting for my tanks to warm up and I will begin playing these.
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I also have all the brass. Each time I try to clean them it seems I just burn the surface. I will need to think of another method and try again.
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They look nice. The retainer is in now.
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I guess once I start this engine I should start looking at restoration insurance. IMG_20230702_123216337.jpg
Looks like jewelry. All of this still needs to be properly installed. But I am going to take my time. IMG_20230702_130206702.jpg
Thank God for the massive oil leak that my parts cars previous owner obviously had.
Other then a 1/4 inch of oily mud this looks perfect. IMG_20230704_145554207.jpg
To say that I am both surprised and pleased is an understatement.
Most of the paint is still on it.
No pitting.
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I will need to make a drawing of this exhaust hanger. Grant in New Zealand may be able to make it and pair it with his other hangers to complete a set for 61
I may have to wait until I install my exhaust to my frame to confirm the cut runner length.
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I sent some measurements to Grant to see if he can make this unique bracket for 61. I believe most of the rest are the same for his set from 59. So maybe he will be able to put together a set for 61.
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Grant said he can make that exhaust hanger. So maybe he will be able to start selling a set for 1961
I come home with a car full of freshly sandblasted parts. And it starts raining. I guess they will have to wait.
The drums are getting POR15 today or tomorrow. The rest will be powder coated.
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The powdercoater will most likely sandblast again. But I wanted a clean surface so that I can address visible pitting.
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Some I may be able to sand out. The others I will use a high temp filler capable of being powder coated. I just need to figure a way to heat the moisture out of it. Or ask my powder coater to run it through the oven before he coats it.
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Well I supposedly purchased a reproduction coil. But it does not fit in the bracket. IMG_20230708_130400240.jpg
Someone tell me a story about staples.
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I know that sellers sell these staples. But you have to install them by hand. Has anyone done this for the rubber shields.
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Was it a tedious pain, or was it exciting because it was probably one of the last steps. IMG_20230708_143331099.jpg
Quote from: Clewisiii on July 08, 2023, 02:38:09 PMSomeone tell me a story about staples.
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I know that sellers sell these staples. But you have to install them by hand. Has anyone done this for the rubber shields.
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Was it a tedious pain, or was it exciting because it was probably one of the last steps. IMG_20230708_143331099.jpg
I've done some of these for one of my trucks, a 64, and it uses the same size as my 56 Cadillac does.
I found that the staples that Danchuk supplies for the tri-five Chevys are the same ones. The only thing is that you do have to install them all by hand.
A really good pair of needle nose pliers is a must in order to get the bend to look proper. Unless someone else has found a better way of course.
I'm not looking forward to doing all that on my car, especially the ones around the inner fender wells where you can't take it apart for access.
Hope this is helpful, and good luck with your efforts. You've got a great looking car there.
Rick
As for your coil mount bracket, you can use a longer screw to retain the coil, as long as the spread between the two mounting holes isn't too wide to mount it on the manifold or wherever it goes.
I've ran into this problem as well on another vehicle.
Rick
The insides are done. Still need to rotate these then a second coat and they will be done. I decided in the future I am only buying por15 in 8 ounce cans not quarts. After just two uses I had to destroy the lid to get it off.
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I did the inner shields on my '60. I installed the staples by hand. Pretty tedious. It helps to have a pair of "micro" needle noses.IIRC the replacement staples were slightly larger than the originals.
Quote from: Clewisiii on July 08, 2023, 04:41:33 PMThe insides are done. Still need to rotate these then a second coat and they will be done. I decided in the future I am only buying por15 in 8 ounce cans not quarts. After just two uses I had to destroy the lid to get it off.
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The trick to the POR-15 is to keep the can upside down when you close it. That's supposed to keep the stuff from drying up in the groove and gluing the lid on. And another tip I've heard is to use a piece of plastic, like half of a baggie and put it over the top of the can before you put the lid back on.
The stuff begins to dry once it's exposed to air, so if the can is upside down, then the only place it drys is on the "bottom" of the can. And it also depends on how much air there is too. An almost full can won't be as likely to do that as one that's half empty.
My dad used to be a distributor for this stuff so I've got a bit left from after he passed, and I'm still using it. The one's that I forgot to turn upside down or cover first did glue themselves shut and I had to toss them.
One other thing, if you have just a small amount left, it's probably going to dry in the can regardless of what you do.
Rick
Trust that the paint on the drums is really thin, as in actual fact, the drums should not be painted, as when left bare, they dissipate heat far better than painted.
As for staples, I have made my own when required by using thin welding wire, and with a pair of pliers bend the wire into the correct "U" shape, and cut off the excess. Push the ends through the rubber, and simply bend over the points. Getting the exact factory shape at the bend will require a formed die to create the visible arch.
Bruce. >:D
What size of welding wire are you using Bruce? I've got .023 and .035, but even the .035 seems like it's too small to me. Although it is easier to get it to go through the rubber and easier to bend than the original size wire staples.
Rick
Not sure the size, but it is the wire I use for Oxy Welding. Don't use Mig wire, that's' for sure. Next time I am in the garage, I will measure it.
Bruce. >:D
1.5 mm Welding wire. Or 0.059 Inch.
It is virtually the same thickness as the factory staples.
Bruce. >:D
Wow. I haven't heard anyone Oxy welding in a while.
I used the staples that came w/the the rubber dust shields/flaps. I had to open up the holes a little to fit the staples through and then bend over with needle nose pliers and sometimes hammer flat. It takes forever to reinstall all the dust shields. I made a quick note in my thread #99. https://www.autocityclassic.com/1957-1958-cadillac-convertible-series-62-jobs-6267-x-sx/1957-1958-buick/cadillac-2-door-hardtop-and-convertible-windshield-w523/
I am not going to fill every pit. But there are a few I will try.
The panel behind the battery, the top of radiator core support air cleaner lid.
If he sandblasts again he may remove some of this. But I will sand them well and let him know which ones have filler before powdercoating
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Can this vacuum pot be replaced or rebuilt. I have tested it and it does not hold vacuum.
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Believe EGGE Machine does them.
Quote from: Clewisiii on July 09, 2023, 07:24:53 AMWow. I haven't heard anyone Oxy welding in a while.
I do it all the time. Better than Mig Welding on panel steel and when making exhausts and headers.
Bruce. >:D
I have a flex plate nuts question. I was trying to torque these to 20 ft pounds and realized that these nuts are only threaded on the split face end.
I could not get enough thread engagement to tighten these.
Can I just get new nuts. Do I need this same type. Or may something else be wrong IMG_20230712_193043405.jpgIMG_20230712_193342716.jpg
Those nuts have been stripped by a previous "mechanic". And are now only good for sinkers.
I wonder if he tried to use a washer under the nut, thereby lessening the amount of thread to catch.
These were not meant to have lock washers, as the nut end does that.
Bruce. >:D
Hi Carl,
I don't think those are supposed to have threads in just the top half. From looking at your picture it appears that they were stripped before they were threaded on all the way, leaving just the top portion with threads.
If you attempt to torque those, you may end up stripping the rest of the threads.
Rick
Well flex lock seem to be harder to get so I might switch these out with stover
You may want to take another look at the bolts that those go on too, just to be sure that the threads haven't been damaged from the stripped nuts being run back down onto them.
Rick
Quote from: Cadman-iac on July 13, 2023, 04:23:04 AMYou may want to take another look at the bolts that those go on too, just to be sure that the threads haven't been damaged from the stripped nuts being run back down onto them.
Rick
I looked at the bolt threads and they are fine
I got my flex plate nuts installed. Calls for 20 ft pounds but that seems light.
I am getting ready to install the inspection covers. But I have a quick question.
There is a bent tab with a whole below the starter mount. There is no corresponding hole in the bell housing. Does anyone know what uses this hole as an attachment. I assume it would need a j nut.
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I bought my ground strap from Caddy Daddy. Neither hole is large enough for the starter or frame hole. Now I question if the length is right. It has difficulty going around the oil filter.
I may buy another ground strap and test my luck if it turns out to be the same.
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I think I remember the starter ground going to the upper starter bolt. And Jason confirmed the 63 and 64 uses the upper starter bolt.
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But this ground strap lays over the lower starter bolt hole in a much better profile. You will have to trust me on that. I did not drill out the hole on the ground strap there yet.
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Stepping back from the ground strap for now. Time to lay out and actually install the carb.
I have non hardening fuel resistant gasket sealant. Gasket for above and below insulator. IMG_20230715_103436785.jpg
The 61 manual has no diagram for install, only text. But the self starter has an image from 59 with diagram.
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I question the gaskets. They have an opening between the two forward holes. So that will create a cavity above and below the insulator that is solid in this area. Don't know if that will cause a problem.
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So any pointers for installing the carb. Or questions about the gaskets please share.
This is just a wix filter to get me through break in. I think the original PF24 I will get eventually is narrower so I should have more clearance for the ground strap. I had to drill out both sides of the ground strap go mount. Then sand down a contact area below the connection.
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I just love pictures. Waiting on a rear trans coolant tube bracket from Jason Edge. I got the front in place and an appropriate bend in that area.
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Carb gooped up and bolted down. Vac lines all in place. May need to finally tighten later.
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I need to buy a stainless steel tumbling media to clean up the brass fittings for the fuel lines.
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The parts store coil fits. The Caddy Reproductions coil did not.
I can start laying out my wiring now. I ordered a date coded set of spark plug wires from Lectric Limited.
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If the fenders were on these wire connections would be very hard to make. I do not have a lift to easily go underneath.
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And when the time comes this side exhaust pipe might be difficult to position. Does not leave a lot of room around the coolant lines.
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G'day Carl,
I question the need for any gasket cement on or under the Carburettor Gaskets.
If ever you need to remove the Carby for any reason, it will eventuate in destroying the non-ferous spacer/insulator when trying to get things apart.
In all my years, I have never read where any gasket cement is required, nor had any problems in removing any carby for service. Some paper gaskets will tear, but the metal ones in most cases can be reused.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on July 15, 2023, 09:07:38 PMG'day Carl,
I question the need for any gasket cement on or under the Carburettor Gaskets.
If ever you need to remove the Carby for any reason, it will eventuate in destroying the non-ferous spacer/insulator when trying to get things apart.
In all my years, I have never read where any gasket cement is required, nor had any problems in removing any carby for service. Some paper gaskets will tear, but the metal ones in most cases can be reused.
Bruce. >:D
It is not cement. It is a non hardening sealant made for this purpose. The intake surface was pitted and shown evidence that is was leaking under the base of the insulator when I took it apart originally. I wanted something to close it up and help seal those pits.
I use long grain wheel bearing grease on both sides of the gasket. Never had a vacuum leak.
Ciao,
Mario Caimotto
Quote from: Clewisiii on July 15, 2023, 09:18:56 PMIt is not cement. It is a non hardening sealant made for this purpose. The intake surface was pitted and shown evidence that is was leaking under the base of the insulator when I took it apart originally. I wanted something to close it up and help seal those pits.
Carl, what is the name of the product?
I will need to buy a new voltage regulator. But i tried cleaning up and painting the cover of my old one to keep the Delco Remy embossing.
It is to far gone. To many pits.
Quote from: StevenTuck on July 17, 2023, 05:56:16 AMThere just aren't replacements for the internal baffle.
Which can be done twisting a stainless steel band.
Jason Edge came through with a rear trans coolant line clamp. I love the details. I will install it after work today. IMG_20230717_123631476.jpgIMG_20230715_115213168.jpgIMG_20230715_114037498.jpg
I received my radiator hoses from Caddy Daddy today. I also dropped off my radiator core support and other parts at the powdercoater today.
I will need to find a way to mount the radiator without the body for the rear attachment.
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I also got a top of core support battery cable clip. But it is terrible quality. It is an SLA which is very brittle and has a texture like sandpaper. At $40 for the clip I am a little disappointed. I had a perfect condition but yellowed original. But it was lost when I sent it to someone who wanted to reproduce them. I have always suspected he just kept it. But oh well
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Well that is in. IMG_20230717_210054203.jpgIMG_20230717_210104796.jpg
Just putting on the tower clamps so I could look at them.
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And just realized I had completely forgotten about the oil pressure sensor. I will need to pick one up. IMG_20230718_191418655.jpg
@Clewisiii Carl, what is your source for the tower clamps?
Quote from: Clewisiii on July 18, 2023, 07:18:17 PMJust putting on the tower clamps so I could look at them.
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And just realized I had completely forgotten about the oil pressure sensor. I will need to pick one up. IMG_20230718_191418655.jpg
@6262. I think it was McVeys
Of course they are not really installed. But my wires are here.
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I also got the body ground straps but I will need to clean some paint to give them a good connection.IMG_20230719_185714184.jpg
You know. Looking at my under radiator shield. I think I can repair this. The only real damage is in the flatter area. I think all I would need is a bead roller to make a patch for this area.
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I agree. Shouldn't be difficult to create the replacement piece and weld it into the original panel.
Even if you create a complete new piece, and cut out the awkwardly pressed parts, and weld them into the new piece. A lot less welding involved in going down this route.
Looking at the pictures, it looks like there is a large area with small holes than just the heavily ventilated edge.
Bruce. >:D
If you are a bit creative with simple tools, you will be able to recreate the outer edge. Sure, I'm thinking like doing a part for a scale model but the same "technique" can be applied to real cars. Take some more time than a bead roller...Either you spend the money or the time!
Sitting here thinking about gaping my spark plugs and resetting the distributor. But I will need to pull it again to prime the oil before I start it in October.
So I don't think I want to be in the shop doing that on a hot day today. But I did lay out the plug wires. IMG_20230722_104344279_HDR.jpgIMG_20230722_104332681_HDR.jpgIMG_20230722_104327445_HDR.jpg
Haggerty Insurance quote for $30,000 agreed value was $632 a year. If I insure now I should actually get build insurance. But I was curious what the quote would be.
I picked up my first batch of powder coated under hood components today. This batch of Semi Gloss was not as shiny as the semigloss from the frame powder coater. I wish it would have been a little glossier to better match original. But I will be happy as long as they all are the same.
This batch is everything needed to mount the radiator. Which I will need to start the engine. I just really hope the paint shop works to protect all this detailed engine bay work.
I will have another batch for brackets, grill support and headlight bumper supports. But that can all be later
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I am missing one bolt on my radiator fan shroud. Looking at my old fastener photos it looks like I only had three bagged. This is a size I have not purchased from Jason Edge so I do not have spares.
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I will figure it out later. But there are two more holes that would require a J nut to install a bolt. But I have no idea what might go there. Does anyone have an idea?
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The bottom of the radiator core support is secured by a single central body mount. This is the only attachment to frame for everything forward of the body. IMG_20230724_192411542.jpg
I have heard people try to claim that the IIHS crash test between a 59 Malibu and a 2009 Malibu was fake. Claiming they removed the fender bolts. Well I have talked to the people who crashed that car. And I have seen it. There was no trick. Honestly they said they were surprised by the results as well. Only one point secures all that front end and fenders.
Well the next batch of parts being powder coated, I must remember the AC Condenser brackets.
It is so enjoyable just assembling things. But I will need to build some type of fixture to hold the core support before I get the body on the frame.
And the next batch being plated, I must remember the headlight harness bracket to core support.
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If anyone happens to have a rubber grommet for the AC generator air hose at core support. I will be your best friend if you are willing to sell it.
I have been looking for similar fittings to see if I can make something work. I found one close but it is hard plastic.
Man these body mounts were expensive when I bought them. More then $600.
Laying everything out I am missing three bolts and seven square shims if I expect to have one on every body mount. I will need to make a new list and get with Jason Edge.
I am actually surprised this many survived. I cut a few bolts to remove the body. And a few of those washers and shims were very far gone.
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I had ordered a supposed complete body mount set from Caddy Daddy. But they did not pair the right size square mounts with round mounts in the set. I made them a chart showing what each Cadillac Model used then defined the mount combinations. No mount used the combination caddy daddy sent. There are a few sizes not available. so four mounts need to be modified.
Body mount 1.jpgBody Mount 2.jpgBody Mount 3.jpgBody Mount 4.jpg
So I am looking into how much wiring I will be able to buy. And how much I will need to build.
Lectric Limited lists two Forward headlight harnesses. One from firewall to core support. One from core support to headlights.
The firewall one says I must provide the bulkhead connector. Well the AC and other wires direct connect into the bulkhead connector. That branch on my car was completely eaten by rodents. I will need to call Lectric Limited to ask if that branch is included.
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typically, they just need to reuse the old components/connectors.
It is hot and humid in my shop. I need to get a mini split to at least keep the humidity down.
But this has caused a slight return of the barn fresh odor that this car came with 9 years ago. I think it is either an internal body panel. Or the original trunk carpet I had stored away.
Either way thd humidity has got to go to prevent future rust and rot
I finally got the radiator clips I ordered from Yearone in the middle of June.
One fit perfect in the hole I cut. I will need to take a die grinder to open up the other hole a 1/16 to get it to fit. A better problem to have then them falling out.
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Grant in New Zealand has reached out. He is almost done with the exhaust hanger set for 61.
When I get them of course I will let you know how they fit. From the muffler i believe the parts are the same as the 59 set he makes. I gave him measurements for the hanger at the muffler. We will see how good my measurements were.
I don't mind being the test case. Hopefully he can make a new kit for 61. I assume it is the same on 62 as well.
It has been a week since I have done anything with my car. There are a few little things I could be doing while waiting for my exhaust from Waldron's. But holding onto cash right now since my property taxes are due in a couple of weeks. But here is a list.
I need at least one belt hooked up to run the fan when I start the car.
So Power steering lines need to be ordered so I can put fluid in the pump to allow it to run while engine is running.
So
Power steering lines
Fan Belts
Voltage Regulator
Trans Fluid
Drive shaft rebuild
Fan Clutch
Oil Pressure sensor
Heater Hoses
Temporary battery
The only unknown for me right now is the drive shaft timing and costs.
Will your exhaust hanger set include the one that's more like a bulkhead in the center of the x frame? I think mines bad, but I can't see it. Do you have any pictures or diagrams?
That is the one that is really just a square piece of sheet rubber. It should. Grant asked me about the size and hole orientation. But I will still confirm with him again before he ships anything.IMG_20230620_115420575.jpg
Grant currently makes the 10 piece hanger set for 59/60. The 61 hangers are a 4 piece set. 3 are the same as the 59 set. One is different. The 61 does not need 5 on one side like the 59 because the cross over pipe is self supporting in that area.
Yes; that's it. I guess it is just a rectangular sheet of rubber. Next time the car is on a lift I'll have to take a look at just what is happening in there.
Quick Question.
Does anyone know if anyone remade the colored rubber floor mats. These were originally light blue. I had embroidered carpet floor mats made. But I would like a rubber set if I can get them.
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Carl,
FYI: https://www.caddydaddy.com/shop-parts/accessories/floor-mats.html?prod_year=495
Thanks. I will have to call them to see if they have any other options for color. Their blue is to dark. They are all special order anyway.
Original Parts Group (https://www.opgi.com/interior-accessories/carpet-flooring/original-style-rubber-floor-mats2/ce16213.html) has them for much less than Caddy Daddy. Most likely they're both buying from the same supplier.
I called Waldrons today. They will have my exhaust done at the end of the month. So I will drive down to pick it up.
I also talked to Grant in New Zealand. He has the metal ready for a 61 exhaust hanger set. He sent the parts off for plating. Then he will rivet on the rubber.
I am a little worried about the rubber dimension I gave him for the new bracket he is making. But the rubber is easy to modify later. He gave me a price that I thought was great for the set. But we will find out how much that cost becomes after shipping.
I was looking at ordering the power steering lines but have a quick question. What type of clamp was on the low pressure line.
Well just to have something to do, I gapped my spark plugs and applied dielectric to all the boots.
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I ordered a generator wire harness from Lectric Limited. I will also need a voltage regulator eventually.
I need to get a larger woodruff key assortment. IMG_20230819_203751514.jpg
I have to remove the valve cover to check that my TDC and distributor position on one is the compression stroke don't I.
Is there a way to do this without removing the valve cover?
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Yes. Put your finger over the spark plug hole and wind the engine over. As soon as your finger is blown off the plug hole, that is where the closest position for TDC Compression Stroke.
Then look at the timing pointer and the Crank Pulley and move the crank till the points line up. Set at say 8 Degrees before TDC, and the Distributor should be opening to create the firing position for the corresponding plug lead.
Bruce. >:D
I was turning over by hand. And since the hole is so deep I had to put the tip of my finger in. It did not seal well on my finger nail. But I think I got it correct.
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In response to your question from a couple of days ago, here's are pictures of the low pressure PS hose clamp on my '61. If it looks out of position, it is. I'm waiting for my water pump to come back from rebuilders.
As of tomorrow I will have owned my Cadillac for 9 years. I bought it 1.5 years after I graduated from College. I guess at the time I was bored only having to go to work every day. For the first two years I did not live in the same place I had the car stored. So I only messed with it on weekends. It took me 4 months of thinking about it before I took the first parts off to work on them.
I took the nuts and bts back to my apartment during the week to soak in vinegar to remove rust. The bead blaster is much better then that.
Carl,
You're a living example of patience and perseverance as significant virtues. I think I'm correct in recalling that this initiative was originally all about the "journey" and less so about wanting a perfectly restored 1961 Fleetwood Cadillac. Am I accurate? Happy day, James
Quote from: James Landi on August 22, 2023, 10:08:19 AMCarl,
You're a living example of patience and perseverance as significant virtues. I think I'm correct in recalling that this initiative was originally all about the "journey" and less so about wanting a perfectly restored 1961 Fleetwood Cadillac. Am I accurate? Happy day, James
To this day I have never driven a classic car. Unless you count moving my Buick into my garage. I bought a 52 Buick that will sit until the Cadillac is done. I originally wanted a Buick but the Cadillac became available first.
Waldrons emailed me to say my exhaust is ready. I still cannot pick it up until next Thursday. But it still makes me happy.
My generator wire harness showed up. But I need new nuts for the studs on the generator. It needs to be a stacked set since the bottom nut secures the stud to the generator. I cannot believe that I did not have more of that size. I have just above and just below in size.
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From what I remember, these threads are a special size. A bit like those of the Coil.
Bruce. >:D
Well then I wonder. I have a spare coil. I will check the nuts tomorrow
It has now been 9 years since I got this home and it's first bath. It does stink that I could not get it turned over and started then.
But I think I have had more enjoyment in all the work I have done since then, then what would have happened if it actually started. FB_IMG_1693073388469.jpg
A little sanding on a woodruff key I had, and I was able to press it in place.
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I will not reinstall the pump until I verify my timing and maybe prime the oil.
For those who would like to know. The threads for the generator studs are 12-24
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The correct yellow sticker. Not the round red one.
I think I have even seen a picture where this is the sticker on the 59 Gagnon death car.IMG_20230829_201244972_HDR.jpg
6 hour round trip to visit Waldrons today and pick up my exhaust. Next will be hearing back from Grant on the exhaust hanger set.
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Waldrons really is a small shop in the middle of nowhere Amish country. It was a 45 minute drive at 55 miles an hour back roads off of the freeway. I do not think they get many non local customer visits. The door was locked and they only have three parking spaces. But the people who work there were great. Very friendly and helpful.IMG_20230831_100148020.jpg
Here are the antique patterns he uses to make the exhausts. The building was full but it wasn't customer orders. It was all the master patterns they collected at swap meets and car shows over the years.
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The new owner worked for Burt Waldron since he was 13 years old. Very friendly guy. It seems the local customers know to come to the back door to get him to help them with small projects. While he was off helping an Amish man with a piece of metal I took a picture of his pipe bender. If you have had a Waldrons Exhaust it was made right here IMG_20230831_095212962.jpg
Thanks for the pictures and explanation! As I'm ordering parts from time to time, it's very interesting to know how they operate. Did you met Ruth (the woman responding to each email) and Beth, the "finance manager"?
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on September 01, 2023, 03:44:59 AMThanks for the pictures and explanation! As I'm ordering parts from time to time, it's very interesting to know how they operate. Did you met Ruth (the woman responding to each email) and Beth, the "finance manager"?
Yes they sit at two old dusty desks facing each other in the front section. The building used to be a car dealership in the teens and twenties. You can still see the art deco ceiling from the main show room that only holds 2 cars. There was an 8 ft table between them filled with old car parts catalogs.
Well I did nothing else on my car this weekend. I did not install any of those pipes.
I think the studs on the RH manifold are to long. I put the same length on both sides but the RH does not have the required extra length for the exhaust gas bypass valve. I will need to reach out to Grant to see when he will be able to ship the exhaust hangers. I think it will be easier to hang and seal up these pipes with the correct hangers.
I started working through my list of needed to have things for starting. I have a new:
Thermal fan clutch
Power steering belt
Generator belt
Power steering hoses
And I dropped of my drive shaft to have it gone through
I still need
Fluids. AMS transmission fluid. Power steering fluid.
I talked with Dave and I am going to buy a voltage regulator from him
An auxiliary oil pressure gauge.
And a temporary battery.
The plan is still to start my engine in the last week of October. If that works I will work on painting the firewall and get the body on the frame over winter. Steering column and rear end and I will be able to drive it to the body shop for paint. But that might still be a while until I can pay for that. All in all I am happy and encouraged.
The first chrome work that I need done is the door window frames. Then I can install the door internals and glass. After that I would consider everything else weekend projects.
I pulled the studs out of my RH manifold. I had used 2 3/8 studs. I need to switch these out with 2 inch. I also need to order one more 2 inch stainless exhaust clamp.
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So I do not remember how I got the springs off of my hinges. But I remember thinking it was easy. But now that I do not want to scratch anything, I need to think of a good way to install them.
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And the power steering lines from Caddy Daddy are about 5 inches longer then original. I hope it is not an issue.
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And the Auto parts store fan clutch will not work. The base is to big. I cannot install the fan.
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What I did was get a bit of 3/8" square bar, and grind some grooves in each end to hook into the spring. It doesn't need to be expanding the spring too much. The length of this one was to suit the '72 Eldorado.
To refit the hinge springs, all you need to do is to put a ring in a vice to clip the end of the spring, then with a piece of rope, pull on the other end to expand it a bit, and then insert the previously-made steel bar.
Bruce. >:D
I realized that the Caddy Daddy 1961 power steering return hose has a 90 degree bent end. Both my 61 return hoses are straight. I will need to decide if I will buy a new one or bend this one. IMG_20230908_184627941.jpgIMG_20230908_184009521.jpg
I also had bad luck with a power steering hose from Caddydaddy for my '59. It had the bent end pointing the wrong way, so I just could not install it.
Caddydaddy insisted theirs was right. They "knew what they are doing" after being so long in business.
Ended up buying a hose from another vendor, that was right.
Quote from: StevenTuck on September 09, 2023, 12:07:20 PMMcVey has the correct hoses.
You're right; that's where I bought the right hoses.
I had need to pull my bumper out today. This has been sitting on a shelf for years.
Pulling off all the brackets that will go for powder coating.
Then the hardware that can be saved will be plated. IMG_20230909_193640474.jpgIMG_20230909_193646337.jpgIMG_20230909_193924335.jpgIMG_20230909_193706572.jpg
I looked up McVeys. They have the high pressure line on their website. Looks much better then Caddy Daddy. They don't show the low pressure side. But I know they do not list everything online. I will need to call them.
If some of your rear lenses are no more good, I have some NOS.
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Roger, that would all depend on price. The NOS lense price has gotten to a point that I am happy with reproduction. This Fleetwood will never be valuable so I can only put money where it is important.
I got my shorter exhaust studs today so I am test fitting the cross over pipe. There is no gaskets or sealant in here yet.
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First I must say that I am happily surprised with how well the ends matched up to the manifolds. I was expecting some fighting or bending. Just due to any warp from the welding.
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But I do have one concern. The pipe comes very close. Nearly touching a tie rod. This might move when everything is tightened up. And I have not adjusted the steering yet anyway. I will need to turn the wheels side to side to see what happens. IMG_20230910_182533630.jpg
One question. Gasket sealant on exhaust gaskets. I have it. But it is going to be very difficult working alone to line up and install all this stuff with sealant between the layers.
I don't mind the fight since it will only be done once. But how important is sealant on these gaskets especially around the exhaust bypass spacer.
Man this stuff just lays right in place. I need to reach out to Grant again to check on the exhaust hangers.
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Very nice!
Pay attention to the clearance between exhaust pipe and emergency brake lever also.
At my '59 that lever is sometimes rattling against the exhaust pipe. Unfortunately I have been unable to correct this; once the pipe clamps have been tightened it seems impossible to move or turn the pipes because they have been cramped by the clamps.
But I also must say your exhaust fits far better than mine did.
Can anyone tell me about the electrical connection for the front lower lights.
Can this wiring come off?
Does the wire stay connected to the housing and a plug on the other end?
Trying to figure out how far I can go cleaning these up.
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Looks like the lamp holder is secured to the housing via a crimping of the inside ring.
I wouldn't be surprised if the wiring can be pushed through the base to allow checking and cleaning, but carefully pulling back on the rubber shield, you might be able to see more. I notice that there is a tiny depression of the surround, indicating to me that the insulated part is not removeable.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on September 11, 2023, 07:22:41 PMLooks like the lamp holder is secured to the housing via a crimping of the inside ring.
I wouldn't be surprised if the wiring can be pushed through the base to allow checking and cleaning, but carefully pulling back on the rubber shield, you might be able to see more. I notice that there is a tiny depression of the surround, indicating to me that the insulated part is not removeable.
Bruce. >:D
Thank You Tassie. I have 4 of these but they all have very dry wiring.
Well the exhaust is all suspended. Still not clamped or installed to manifolds yet.
Three of those original hangers actually hold the pipes off to the side so I cannot suspend directly from the upper mounts.
But my floor looks nicer.
I need to call the shop to ask about my driveshaft that is being rebuilt. But I cannot pay for it until Friday so I am letting it go for now. I will take the rear end to the shop to have it looked over at the beginning of October.
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Quote from: Clewisiii on September 10, 2023, 06:30:03 PMRoger, that would all depend on price. The NOS lense price has gotten to a point that I am happy with reproduction. This Fleetwood will never be valuable so I can only put money where it is important.
I'll take contact with you when I'm back home. I have those lenses for such a long time that I'm ready to make a good offer for you.
My Car Show tools and supplies boxes will be vintage luggage I can keep in the trunk.
This box will be electrical.
Coil
Condensers
Points
Plugs
Wire repair tools.
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I have another make up case for
Fuel Pump
Gaskets
Belts
Fuses
Small fluids.
Then I have bigger luggage for show set up supplies
Now that things are going together I am happy to I be putting my extras away in their boxes.
I like that idea. Very unique actually. Disguise your parts and tools. Cool!!
Well gee. I need to buy a battery soon. I am so excited with how close a running engine and finished chassis and suspension is.
I have identified a couple of points I am going to address on the body before I put it back on the frame. And a fresh coat of paint on underbody and paint the firewall.
The body could be on a running frame by spring. Then it is saving money for paint. Unfortunately my new job does not have bonuses so I cannot rely on helpful lump sums of cash to add to the painting budget.
I have a new fan clutch. So I can I stall the radiator this weekend.
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I contacted McVeys. They sell a perfect high pressure power steering hose. They only sell low pressure by the IMG_20230915_185643359.jpgfoot no fittings. They sell clamps for $12 a piece that are almost correct except hex head nut instead of plain flat head. I am going to buy the new and include my original in the next batch of parts to plate.
I may reuse this low pressure nipple. But it is a little rusty. I may have a new one made locally but they would need to install the raised interference edge.
After watching the Holub project on YouTube and the difficulty he has had priming his 61 engine, I decided to jump in and make a rod to prime my engine.
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But I started with copper and slightly to large. I could flatten it enough to work at first. But it would eventually stretch and spin. So tomorrow I am going to go to the hardware store and find a more appropriately sized pipe to fit to the oil pump drive shaft.
What a tedious install. Only about a 1/2 turn per bolt at a time.
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I need to build a fixture to hold this radiator firmly in the proper position.
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Installing the inner fenders and supporting at the rear will probably be the easiest. IMG_20230915_205153728.jpgIMG_20230915_205204940.jpg
This has just been so much fun. There is no reason this should not be started by the end of October. Unless something catastrophic goes wrong.
Right now I cannot really fit the lower radiator hose until the core support is sitting more firm
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G'day Carl,
Not sure if I showed you the drive that I made to prime the 390 in my '60 CDV.
As I didn't have a reversible drill, I used an old socket on the end so I could use my Speed Brace to turn it.
The roll pin in the end is to stop the oil pump intermediate shaft from jamming in the tool which could accidentally lift it from the pump as I pulled the primer out.
Before I assembled the engine, I used the intermediate shaft to act as a mandrel so I could shape the end of the primer to fit. And ne slightly loose, so, again, it couldn't grab it as I pulled it out.
Bruce. >:D
Well having issues with photos. Tried three different photos on two different threads and it will not upload right now.
But. I made a drive rod. I had to use 3/8 black pipe since I could not find the right size steel pipe. Drive on an old deep well socket and ran it up. I went until oil dropped from every lifter on the driver side, and oil was leaking from the passenger side valve cover.
I have a question. Should I clean up and seal down the valve covers now. Or wait and do this again closer to my start. I know everything is working now. And oil has traveled to where it needs to go.
Oil is primed tried for hours to upload pictures. Even leaked out of the valve cover I did not remove.
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With the oil coming out of the Rocker Shaft and oiling the Rocker Arms, that is good.
But, what I do when priming any engine that hasn't run before is to spin the oil upmp to bring up pressure, rotate the crankshaft 90 degrees, and spin the pump again, and turn the crank another 90 degrees, spin pump, and continue the 90 degree turning of the crank and spinning the pump, until you have completed 2 full turns of the crankshaft.
This way, you have made sure that all points of the engine, has received oil, as it would during a working cycle, as this oil only gets to some points, like the underside of the pistons and cylinder walls when the crankshaft and connecting rods are in certain positions. Also the cam followers, as they go up and down, opening the oil galleries to them.
As for sealing up the rocker covers, yes. Less messy in case you forget.
Bruce. >:D
I am ordering the power steering hoses from McVeys. I don't like these Caddy Daddy ones.
In two weeks I am going to have to contact the local Amsoil rep and order up a bunch of fluids. And dang the pictures stopped loading again. I know it is not me. I probably upload more pictures then anybody.
It is annoying that I bought belts from the same store. They had to order them in. And they don't match. But not to bad for now.
I still need to connect my lower radiator hose. And make the trans coolant connections. No I would like to have a lift. But I do not have the space for it.
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A question to the 6162 owners. Does the negative battery cable come out in front of the core support or behind it.
I think only the positive cable passes over the core support. IMG_20230917_103527457.jpg
On the subject of battery. My original battery hold down was rubber coated. It looks like a the ends were dunked in z thick plastidip. The new one is just painted metal. IMG_20230917_104521217.jpg
Finally able to upload a picture again. The first photo was loading the entire time I was writing this post
See if my luck holds.
No pictures are not loading again.
In order to install the lower radiator hose I had to unbolt the radiator fan shroud. There was not enough room for the rubber to press on with the shroud there.
For the trans coolant hoses I will need to bend the hard lines around a bit. I think the new flex lines are a little longer then original. I need to pull the ends of the hard lines back to make sure there is enough room for the extra long flex lines.
For the engine start can I use my actual ignition key and wiring. Or would I need to also hook up the neutral safety switch to make that work.
This post let me add pictures so I did as many as I could before they stopped uploading.
Battery cables and hold down. The negative I believe needs to be moved in front. The hold down should be plastidipped
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Ignition wiring. I was debating just starting with the key. But I think I will need to hot wire. IMG_20230917_104240365_HDR.jpg
Lower radiator hose. I had to loosen the shroud to install. IMG_20230917_103141023.jpgIMG_20230917_102617953.jpgIMG_20230917_103129474.jpg
I need to wiggle around the hard lines. IMG_20230917_102608333.jpg
I decided to remove the brackets for rear disc brakes. I am going back to drums. At the sand time I am going to have a professional go through my rear end.
I am worried about the crush sleeve. And I think one axle bearing is 1/8 inch from being fully set. I do not need to have to have the rear end done to restart the engine. But if I can swing it in my time frame why not.
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Quote from: StevenTuck on September 18, 2023, 06:11:25 AMCarl, several years ago I was at a show where a guy had an original unrestored 1961 Fleetwood. He showed me an original paint drip running across the radiator support. He said that was due to how they painted it. They hung it vertically and sometimes the paint would run, leaving an odd-looking drip down the top of the radiator support.
Yes they did. I tried to save mine for a while. The first time I sand blasted my core support the paint runs were thicker. Once only the run remained I stopped sandblasting. My fresh paint was over the run so you could see it. But then I decided I do not care that much. I have way to many painted over pits in the metal to worry about keeping a run.
I sealed down the valve covers today. I will torque them tomorrow.
Man working around that AC bracket is a pain. In order to clear the upper stud I had to lift the bracket and valve cover at the same time. IMG_20230918_192407769.jpgIMG_20230918_194724962.jpg
Those axles will be out for a while. The gear lube smell has already stunk up my shop.
Can you tell me how this adjustment screw functions between the chock and throttle. IMG_20230918_202134938.jpgIMG_20230918_202140857.jpgIMG_20230918_202148455.jpg
This one if I was not clear.
Since we were talking about it in another thread. I decided I should pick up and install a splash apron set since I am in that area. Screenshot_20230918-203112.png
That screw is to adjust the fast idle when the choke is in any position, than fully open.
When fully open, the screw sits in the gap at the end of the choke lever. You will notice that the lever is graduated so that as the choke is opening from closed, the throttle is moving with it. Like a ramp.
Bruce. >:D
Man o man, I would give anything to have the skills to do a project like this.
I recommend a vintage alternator...it looks original.
Some where on their forum is my emergency trunk tool and parts list.
I keep everything in vintage bags from eBay.
Quote from: jwwseville60 on September 19, 2023, 12:34:12 PMMan o man, I would give anything to have the skills to do a project like this.
I recommend a vintage alternator...it looks original.
Some where on their forum is my emergency trunk tool and parts list.
I keep everything in vintage bags from eBay.
I don't know if it is skills. I have more time then money. Which is why it has been 9 years. I spend more time thinking about what I will do then actually doing anything.
Again. I have never driven this car. I have never even driven a car with a carburetor. And though it sometimes hurts to say I do not care about this car on an emotional level. If I screw it up I do not care. So I am willing to try.
I am not going to try to save most of these bumper bolts. It is not worth the effort of sandblasting them all. It is even a pain taking this all apart. It has had penetrating oil soaking for 2 weeks. They are coming apart but with a lot of effort. Two carriage head bolts have decided to spin. So those will need to be cut off. IMG_20230919_170458418.jpg
The High Pressure power steering hose from McVeys is much better then the hose from Caddy Daddy. The low pressure hose they sent might be to narrow though. IMG_20230920_193037331.jpg
So I have my splash shields from Rubber the Right way. I will need your help identifying where they go. Someone had said the kit comes with a sheet showing the locations. I did not have that. IMG_20230921_183023300.jpg
I believe some of these sheets install with bolts and washers. But j am not sure the holes are cut for the bolts.
Back to power steering.
The McVeys high pressure hose was great.
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But the low pressure hose that McVeys sent was to narrow of diameter. IMG_20230923_094507863.jpg
The McVeys hose fit my radiator overflow very well.
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I cut the end of the Caddy Daddy return hose. It was the correct diameter to fit in. IMG_20230923_100617164.jpg
So other then the Caddy Daddy high pressure hose that is a waste. I have at least been able to use most of what I bought.
Ok placing and laying out the splash shields. I have figured out the three for The wheel well. It looks like the center shingles over the side pieces. The rear rubber covers two pieces bolted together then bolts secure the rubber on the second piece. IMG_20230923_105413745_HDR.jpgIMG_20230923_105421642.jpgIMG_20230923_105418736.jpg
I still question the small pieces. Mostly just final alignment. The sickle shaped one just kind of sits over the part. I still need to take the small pieces of metal in for powdercoat. So I cannot install them yet.
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That leaves two pieces unaccounted for. Which may not be needed.
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I will tape the sheets in what I believe to be the correct spot. IMG_20230923_110806266.jpg
I will clamp a board flat across the stapled area.
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Now he I flip it over I should be able to drill through the metal into the rubber and board for good clean hole locations.
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The flat of the staples comes from the rubber side and the ends are curled on the metal side.
One side done. Except for the bumper ends. IMG_20230923_131637762_HDR.jpgIMG_20230923_131645311_HDR.jpgIMG_20230923_132147784_HDR.jpg
I still need to figure out a good way to support these inner fenders while I work around them
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Not a job I would want to do on car. But less then half a casual day to get these ones installed at least.
I have the 4 small stamped parts to do next after powdercoating. IMG_20230923_161137570_HDR.jpg
With the outer wheel well metal liner in place, I have a screw hole I can mount a block to securely hold the core support and wheel liners in place. This will work much better for supporting for my engine start at the end of October.
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I was hoping to wait to install the Y pipe to the headers until the rest of my exhaust hangers arrived. But this might be what I accomplish this next week.
With the rest of the pipes in place it has changed the angle so that I have some more room to that tie rod I was worried about. IMG_20230924_102825705.jpgIMG_20230924_102847932.jpg
Having had a better look at the rear axles the bearings are fully seated. I was worried that one was an 1/8 off. The first time I painted these I did not even clean the old grease off first. IMG_20230924_135830885.jpgIMG_20230924_135838307.jpg
So cleaning the up and a coat of POR 15. But my quart can has finally hardened. I will only buy pints going forward.
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I had to turn on my plating tanks to do the retaining bolts. These were not sent in the big batch.
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I have been thinking about the lug studs. They seem fine. But should I press them out and replace them?.
Sometimes it is the little things that bug you.
This little cap was on one of the bolt threads on the passenger side inner fender. I don't know if it was to protect the AC line passing over there. Or if there were multiple and I only have this one.
But anyway the annoyance. I had sprayed this with epoxy primer. Now I cannot get it off.
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Quote from: Clewisiii on September 24, 2023, 02:06:00 PMHaving had a better look at the rear axles the bearings are fully seated. I was worried that one was an 1/8 off. The first time I painted these I did not even clean the old grease off first.
If the fitting of the bearing is the same as that of the 1960, then the bearing has to be pressed on to a measurement, and not a register as in normal axles.
I remember this from when I had to replace one in my '60 CDV when I first purchased it. I reread the instructions, as I had never seen it before, but there it was, written down. Plus, it took a bit of pressure to get it to the right spot.
Bruce. >:D
Where exactly do these go?
Quote from: StevenTuck on September 19, 2023, 05:56:03 AMCarl, there is an auxiliary dust shield set that fits under the sway bar near the frame. It was one of those forgotten pieces that I discovered during my restoration. I sent originals to Rubber The Right Way and they started reproducing them. Here's the link:
https://www.rubbertherightway.com/i-30497863-auxiliary-frame-dust-shield.html (https://www.rubbertherightway.com/i-30497863-auxiliary-frame-dust-shield.html)
Quote from: Clewisiii on September 24, 2023, 02:39:57 PMSometimes it is the little things that bug you.
This little cap was on one of the bolt threads on the passenger side inner fender. I don't know if it was to protect the AC line passing over there. Or if there were multiple and I only have this one.
But anyway the annoyance. I had sprayed this with epoxy primer. Now I cannot get it off.
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Many years ago I bought a set of these red plastic caps from Ebay. The description said these red caps were supposed to be on the studs you mention, but were almost allways missing (as in my case).
Still have them on the shelve Since I never ever saw a car having them I doubted the description was right. But now you found one on your car, it may be true after all.
Will see if I still have the printed Ebay add somewhere.
Edit: Here you go, the print of the Ebay add from 20(!!) years ago.
Still have the caps on the shelve, never installed them on the car. Since I never ever saw them on any other car I always had my doubts about the originality. Now you found one on your car it might be true after all.
On one of the smaller pictures you can see the original Dealers parts wrapper, but unfortunately the caps I bought just came in a plastic bag. The original wrapper might have shown the part number.
Happy to confirm the use after 20 years.
This Resto is simply breathtaking. Wow.
axels are not painted from the factory.
I picked up a set of these fender protectors today. They are old and brittle. I may just use the. As templates to make new ones. IMG_20230926_190135113.jpg
I finally got my front bumper all the way apart. I need to take all the brackets and have them powder coated.
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Even though I have new chrome bumpers I am not throwing away this set.
I may refinish them to have a spare. IMG_20230929_164947389.jpgIMG_20230929_203220780.jpg
I was debating what to do this weekend. And decided it is finally time to install the pipes to the manifolds.
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I need to loose weight. Out of shape I was getting dizzy laying on my back going side to side to install and torque down those pipes.
But I am amazed how well they lined up. Bent by hand, welded, off of a 60 year old pattern. It is amazing to me that the bends and angles could be that accurate. Waldrons is awesome. The torque spec is different from rh to lh. But I did them both at the upper spec.
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Next I can make the connections from my trans coolant lines to the radiator. But that is another round of on my back under the engine so I will give it a couple of hours.
Do I detect a massive paint run on the Transmission Bellhousing?
Looking at the powder-coated frame, make sure that everywhere that a grounding strap attachment, that you completely get rid of the coating so that the grounding will actually ground. Remember that grounds are everywhere, from the Battery Negative terminal, all the way back to the number plate lights.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on September 30, 2023, 07:33:05 PMDo I detect a massive paint run on the Transmission Bellhousing?
Looking at the powder-coated frame, make sure that everywhere that a grounding strap attachment, that you completely get rid of the coating so that the grounding will actually ground. Remember that grounds are everywhere, from the Battery Negative terminal, all the way back to the number plate lights.
Bruce. >:D
yes that was from the Eastwood paint coat years ago. The stuff dried real slow and on the clean aluminum it just slid.
I ran a tap in every ground straps hold and sanded the surface under the strap.
I cannot believe it. I just realized I installed this top splash shield upsidedown on one side. I will need to take it off and flip it.
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Commiserations on getting it wrong, but congratulations for showing that you are human.
At least the holes should be self-sealing when the staples are removed.
Bruce. >:D
Well I will be able to work on my car this weekend.
I got a call leaving work yesterday asking how long my Passport was still good for. They wanted me in England to talk with McLaren for some of their interior products manufacturing.
But by 10 this morning it was cancelled.
I am still waiting on my drive shaft. They have had it since September 1st. I call once a week to ask if they have a price estimate. Last Thursday they said they were working on it and would call me at the end of the day. That has not happened yet.
I will call again tomorrow. I cannot pick it up until the 12th at the earliest anyway.
After I pay for the drive shaft I have a big order to Amsoil waiting for me to pay as well.
The drive shaft shop finally gave me a price. And I should be able to pick it up at the end of next week.
So a new dash wire harness is $1000 from Lectric Limited. I want to just go with a new one so I can get rid of these crusty terminals. IMG_20231007_102627499.jpgIMG_20231007_102609243.jpgIMG_20231007_102634934.jpg
But they want the original to use the fuse block and bulk head connector. IMG_20231007_102618845.jpg
I called them and asked about the trunk release switch. They said the trunk release is not a part of the IP harness. Well they are right. If you had trunk release a jumper was plugged into the clock power terminal. So I went through and stripped everything that is not actually part of the harness.IMG_20231007_103455942.jpg
Looking for fuel for the first start. The ethanol free is 91 octane. I would have liked better, but I don't see a need for the racing fuels.
The price is on the pump with stickers. So I don't think it changes that often.
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Well 2 to 3 weeks to start my car. Which I will be very happy for. The drive shaft should be back next week. And I think I will have the rear end gone through in November.
But I cannot put the body on until I paint the firewall. And I cannot do that until more prep and sanding. It soon will be to cold to do that outside and I do not want to sand in my newly renovated ship.
So I cleaned up my basement work area today.
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I am going to start working through more of the dash panel. I will get the new wire harness, repaint the lower Dash. Then slowly send out parts for chrome plating. I should be able to get a fair bit done before next summer.
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I need to get back to the seat frames. I decided I am changing some of the springs I used. The new seat back springs are to stiff. I may even put the original foam back. It was latex foam and is still very plush. I just need to clean it. It has aired out nicely in storage over the last 7 years. IMG_20231007_215855410.jpg
This radio and speakers are in very rough shape. But they were actually working when I took the car apart. Well the front at least.
These are some other things I would like to get done before summer. IMG_20231008_093032579.jpgIMG_20231008_093039323.jpgIMG_20231008_093042704.jpg
The Lazy-Boy chair might just fit.
Quote from: jwwseville60 on October 08, 2023, 07:09:19 PMThe Lazy-Boy chair might just fit.
I am a fat man. I have to be comfortable no matter which shop I am in. The shorter one is for my dog. But he always takes mine when I get up. IMG_20231008_192630226.jpg
Sweet!
I have easy chairs and a couch in my garage.
If I had those in my garage, nothing would get done.
Bruce. >:D
I think I am ready to fill with coolant. But I want a new radiator cap.
I am going to put in a gallon of water just to check for leaks. IMG_20231010_194609019.jpg
Paper for water test. So far lower radiator hose is leaking. IMG_20231010_195531560.jpg
That lower tower clamp does not tighten that well.
We're getting close !!
I can almost smell the exhaust....
Mike
I need to pick up a temporary battery this weekend. And I mean temporary for a couple of years to get me through paint and body work. I will buy a classic look battery in the end.
Should I look for something specific for a temporary battery.
Diehard Gold batteries are still made in America, not China.
They are my go-to source.
Good to see some things are still made here. Speaking of batteries does Battery Warehouse still make repro batteries?
For temporary use I'd just get a NAPA Legend etc. Grp. 24 and shave off the hold down "wings" if needed to fit. Any decent battery these days should hold up for 2-3 years.
The machine shop for the drive shaft called. It is done. Balancing and new U joints. I supplied the carrier bearing. $340. I don't have a problem with the price. But it is annoying it took a month and a half.
So I put in a gallon of water last night at 8 pm. I adjusted the clamp several times due to leaking. At 6:30 this morning there was a quarter size wet spot under the lower hose. I put in another whole gallon of water. At 6:00 pm after work there was not one drip under the hose. It may have sealed up.
I have not put the heater hoses in the water pump yet. So I will not put in more fluid until I tie those hoses together. For this round I may use pure water until everything is confirmed leak free. Then I will switch out antifreeze. IMG_20231011_184435201.jpg
Picking up the drive shaft in the morning.
I dropped off more parts at the powder coater this morning.
I ordered the heater hoses and a 5/8-3/4 hose barb to go between them.
I will pick up a battery tomorrow and maybe stop by the shop I want to look over the rear end.
I may even ask David if he will be around this weekend to pick up the NOS voltage regulator from him.
I have to drive down state for something else anyway.
I contacted Grant in New Zealand on the exhaust hangers. Just trying to confirm dimensions with him for the new hanger he is making.
Quick question to the 61-62 guys on the rectangular rubber insulator that the exhaust pipe passes through the frame. the parts book shows 3-4 holes and bolt and nut for install. This bolts right to frame so there is no nuts. And looking at the image from my car before taking it apart, they only used the upper two holes and the lower portion of rubber was tucked into the frame. Can anyone speak about this?
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I have kept myself broke all this year spending on this car.
Well I picked up my drive shaft. When I dropped it off I asked for a balancing with the u joint replacement. He questioned why at the time, but when I picked it up he said it was out of balance.
I will clean this up and paint it this weekend.
I also picked up fuel line and a battery. I stopped by the shop for my rear end and got on the schedule for next week. I hope to meet up with David tomorrow to pick up the voltage regulator. IMG_20231013_110348068.jpg
I had a couple of boxes of the 1/4 and 3/8 hose clamps that my grandpa stole from the GM plant back in the 70s. But I don't have enough of the larger size for the heater hose and maybe brake booster hose. But I think I can still buy these in the color sizes from eBay.
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This bench spray booth really is great. For a while I was regretting putting it in due to how much room it was taking up. But I work in here all the time.
The drive shaft fits. I just need to finish cleaning it and taping it off.
It is raining this weekend so I cannot spray outside. The only problem with the booth will be flipping the part. IMG_20231013_120640319.jpg
I just went with the cheapest battery I could get. Everything is $200 now at the parts store. Makes $400 for an original looking battery not that bad.
I bought an AC Delco battery from Menards for $130. IMG_20231013_120705639.jpg
I think I got a bad batch of POR15. There is very little pigment in it. IMG_20231013_140349697.jpgIMG_20231013_140332910_HDR.jpg
I cannot wait to get this body back on the frame and get a bunch of room back in my shop.
I know I am spoiled with my garage. Some are working on theirs in driveways or parking lots. But it will still be meaningful to me to be able to condense this.
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Thank You David King for selling me the NOS Voltage regulator.
Seems strange something so simple was annoying to install. You cannot see the lower wire connections once it is screwed in place. So you must connect all wires, then screw the condenser into the radiator core support. Then screw the Voltage regulator to the core support.
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The drive shaft is sitting in place. I will need to start the bolts then fish the shim back in place.
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Installing and looping the heater lines. This would be easier with the oil breather pipe off. But it is already gasketed in place. I have not been able to set the clamp on the 3/4 side yet. I found enough clamps. But not all new. So I sandblasted. I will need to plate them.
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I painted the top of my radiator the wrong sheen. I need to pick up a roll of painters plastic to finish taping off and respray. IMG_20231014_174636458.jpg
Annoying thing those heater hoses will need to be cut to length and reinstalled later. It will be even harder to get to those clamps.
Did you figure out the situation with the square exhaust insulator? I'd love to be able to help you, but based on your pictures, mine might be missing (there is an intermittent rattle from that area). I thought it was inside that crossmember since I didn't see anything visible when I looked at mine. But it would help if I was able to look at it on a lift.
Quote from: David Greenburg on October 15, 2023, 12:09:34 AMDid you figure out the situation with the square exhaust insulator? I'd love to be able to help you, but based on your pictures, mine might be missing (there is an intermittent rattle from that area). I thought it was inside that crossmember since I didn't see anything visible when I looked at mine. But it would help if I was able to look at it on a lift.
I have just asked Grant to sell me what he makes for 59. I can make it work. I think the only difference may be bolt hole locations.
Look what bag I found. The exhaust rectangular insulator only used the top two holes. The RH edge is angle cut.
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I showed the president of my company a photo of my engine today and said I was starting it over my vacation.
He told me to make sure I borrow a tripod from our film studio and record it. "It is like having your child born"
Well I was already going to film it. But to have my boss compare to having a child born was hilarious.
I need to buy a small parts tumbler to clean the brass parts for my fuel filter. I have a large tumbler but this is to little media to use it. IMG_20231016_190605024.jpg
Carl,
A full restoration is like child birth except it is labor pain for each and every part, one at a time.
Finally getting to that paint. I want to button this back up tomorrow. IMG_20231018_184715983.jpg
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I'll let it cure overnight before I put the clamps back on. IMG_20231018_204240210.jpg
I have a fuel regulator question. When I bought my car it had a fuel regulator in place. I restored all the parts around it. But I am not putting this regulator back.
What were the reasons for putting on these regulators in the past. Screenshot_20231019-201757.png
If I remember correctly, years ago, the go-to thing was to install an aftermarket fuel pressure limiter in the line to be the wonder-all thing to save fuel.
A bit like the spinning thing under the carby that was promoted to increase the atomisation of the fuel to better the combustion process, again, to save fuel, and give more power.
Bruce. >:D
Well the fuel filter brass is being polished in the parts tumbler.
This was annoying to seal and not leak. It has a hexagonal plug with an O ring stretched around it. Problem in all the corners. IMG_20231020_142030830.jpg
Slowly filling the trans with fluid. Stopping after each bottle to check for leaks. IMG_20231020_145357835.jpg
The top of the radiator it back together. Originally I was missing one bolt for the lower radiator shroud. I found one. But I have to reach over and work around the fan to get to the inside bottom of the shroud. IMG_20231020_145413788.jpg
I have another batch of powder coated parts. Mostly all engine bay and front clip brackets.
I still need to have a air filter housing high gloss coated.
I still need to send out the bumper brackets and inner headlight buckets.
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That brass looks much better after an hour of tumbling. Should I use a tfpe tape on the joints or is the brass considered self sealing?
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I am so worried about a possible fuel leak from that filter. We will see how it goes. I may start this engine tomorrow.
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The fittings and fuel filter should be okay without tape provided they're not worn. Make sure that glass is snug against the gasket. I didnt do that one time on my old 55 and next thing I know I'm smelling gas.
I could only fit in 4 bottles of ATF before it was showing full. I will need to check again after it sloshes around. I could only fit one and a half bottles of power steering.
I decided to bring up my dash cross car beam and place my ignition in it. Mostly just got the fun of it.
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For my first start without all accessories hooked up, what vacuum ports need to be plugged verses what can just be disconnected.
Disconnect vacuum advance
Do I need to plug the line to carb?
What about the vacuum port on top of intake manifold. Just plug it?
I should go out tomorrow and pick up a mechanical oil pressure gauge.
Well I connected my battery and the generator to voltage regulator wire fried instantly.
I will need to replace that. Not letting me add photos again
Should I be able to start the car using the ignition wiring but not hooked up to fuse block. The red battery cable to the ignition looks like it is direct. But the pink wire labeled ignition goes to fuse block along with accessories.
Sorry I cannot upload pictures.
By the way. The fried wire was generator ground. I had it on the wrong terminal on voltage regulator. So I shorted it between generator and voltage regulator.
Finally pictures are uploading again.
Fried generator groundIMG_20231021_110626048.jpg
I am trying to determine what other conditions I need for the ignition wiring to work on the engine.
I put on the neutral safety switch. Only ignition side wires. I need to check my wires at the starter.
Almost had that happen to me in my 55. I switched out the voltage regulator and one of the contacts stuck closed. Caught it just was I noticed a tiny whisp of smoke. Didn't damage anything but could have been worse.
I dropped my rear end and axles off at a shop for them to look them over. I had replaced the seals and bearings years ago. But I have been worried that I had the bearings on backwards. The old bearings were only sealed on outside. The new bearings are sealed on both sides, but different seal types from side to side. It might not matter but I want them to look it over.
The gears all looked good to me at the time. But I don't know what conditions to look for so I wanted to be sure it was in good condition. IMG_20231014_194633373.jpgIMG_20231012_144059970.jpg
Now that is one odd Vernier. Never seen any measuring in fractions of an inch.
I have a feeling that these bearings cannot be put on backwards.
As it looks like there is no seal around the axle, then so long as the seal around the bearing itself is on the outside, if there is only one, then that would keep the outside crap out, and the lubricating oil in.
Bruce. >:D
Does metric decimal and fractional.
I was measuring because a friend with a 65 Buick was looking for rear bearings. His bearing diameter was a whole inch narrower then the Cadillac.
Those new wheel bearings gasve me some trouble. When installed incorrectly, they will leak in a short time.
Bearing No spring wheel side.JPGBearing Spring side towards diff.JPG
The side which has no spring is going towards the wheel and the side with visible spring is towards the differential.
Well I think I need to take in my starter to have it looked over. I rebuilt it about 6 years ago tested it and it has been sitting on a shelf ever since.
I pulled it to test and check all grounds. The bendix kicks forward but it is not rotating currently.
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Sounds like the Bendix is not going far enough for the main contacts in the cap of the Solenoid to come together, creating the power to the actual Starter Motor.
It is easy to check, but if you don't know what you are doing, then best leave it to a professional.
The Shop Manual will guide you through it. There is one nut that has to be undone to allow the bakelite cap to be removed without breaking a special wire. If I remember correctly, it is the one marked "R". This one only supplies 12 Volts to the Ignition Coil to bypass the Resistor.
Bruce. >:D
Ok can anyone give me more advice on what I can look at.
I removed and tested my starter. It is good.
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I cleaned all my grounds. I even hooked up a direct ground wire from the starter to the battery. IMG_20231112_162425037.jpgIMG_20231112_162434765.jpg
I took apart and looked at my neutral safety switch. It looks good and ix in the correct position.
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I am trying to use the key and ignition. Nothing is happening. Maybe it is a bad switch. I will need to find a way to test it.
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I spoke to soon. I made a jumper for the neutral safety switch and it turned over.
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Well it turned over. And it actually started quickly. Little backfire puff in carb and it died. But the starter had a problem again.
It is stuck on without the bendix kicking out and engaging the flywheel.
Hot electrical smell and I had to remove the negative battery cable to get it to stop. I tapped it with a rubber mallet to see if I could get it to disengage. Tapping the negative cable and it turns back on.
But this is still progress. I am happy.
I am so happy.
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So THAT's the way it's SUPPOSED to look! When I owned my 61 convertible back in '65, the business end of the car always looked sad and neglected. White with a red leather interior, the outside made an extraordinary presentation, but the neglected engine, while running strong for the 8 years of my ownership,never left me on the side of the road. Sounds like you've diagnosed the issue with the starter... might be an alignment issue with the solenoid and the starter casing--- Looking forward to your next steps Carl. Happy day, James
I know it is an odd question, but did anyone leave the return spring out of the Solenoid when putting it back together?
The Return Spring is all that there is to return the Bendix away from the Ring Gear.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on November 13, 2023, 07:00:25 PMI know it is an odd question, but did anyone leave the return spring out of the Solenoid when putting it back together?
The Return Spring is all that there is to return the Bendix away from the Ring Gear.
Bruce. >:D
The spring was there. I am thinking the wire was arcing to this cap bolt and creating the connection some how.
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You know what bugs me. The mechanical oil pressure gauge I bought. It has like a 6 ft long hose. You would just think filling that long of a rubber hose would affect the reading.
I ordered a new generator wire harness.
I will pick up a starter solenoid tomorrow. I should be able to install it on Friday.
I know the engine will start now. I will just need to verify oil pressure and set timing.
The oil pressure line should never be a rubber line, as ant expansion of the line will affect the gauge reading.
Are you sure it is Rubber, and not a Black Nylon-like hose?
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on November 15, 2023, 07:36:35 PMThe oil pressure line should never be a rubber line, as ant expansion of the line will affect the gauge reading.
Are you sure it is Rubber, and not a Black Nylon-like hose?
Bruce. >:D
it is a thick wall line like the power steering hose.
Sounds like an industrial unit for ultra high pressures. Or for use in a high chafing position.
The ones I have here only have an outside diameter of 1/8"
Here is the gauge in my dash that I placed when I purchased the car, so I could check on the Oil Pressure whilst I was initially driving it around.
I had no qualms fitting it in as the dash had already been butchered to fit the radio before I purchased the car. Since I rebuilt the engine when I got the car home, I haven't bothered to put the gauge back, and have since replaced the facia and fitted a better radio with less damage to the fascia.
Bruce. >:D
Well I got the new starter solenoid. I had to go to three auto parts stores. One did not have one, one was missing the spring and hardware. The last had one. I thought these were common enough. But I may want to buy a future spare. IMG_20231117_095502474.jpg
They are common.
All GM cars that use the same Starter, from 1955, at least in V8's, use that Solenoid, so they should not be that scarce.
Bruce. >:D
Anticipating a good start and run tomorrow. So to make it look the best for a possible video it is a cleaning day today.
I had spots of gear oil on the floor from working with the rear end a few weeks ago.
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I got my replacement generator to voltage regulator wire today.
The first one I read the schematic wrong last time and put that upper left ground wire on the battery terminal and fried the wire.
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Well I didn't smoke the wires this time. And the starter is cranking properly.
The engine was coughing with the fuel still in the carb from last week. I did not put the lines back in the gas can.
I have a friend coming over tomorrow morning to help me listen and question everything as the engine goes for real.
I will need to polarize the generator to.
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I am happy with the oil pressure. Even with 1-2 second coughs the oil psi gets to 20
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But I am a little disappointed with the Bill Hirsch paint. It does not seem to be gas and oil resistant. At least the quart cans I was spraying from just cleaning up a drop of trans fluid from valve cover pulled off blue paint.
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The Eastwood Cadillac blue even though it was a shade darker, was as hard as glass. I painted the trans before rebuild and even going through the hot tank for cleaning the paint did not come off.
I had a little fuel leak at the filter out port. Fixed that. One connection of the trans coolant lines was tightened. Verified my top dead center. Now it is running about 15 seconds. I still need some more adjustment.
It is leaking from the exhaust joints that are not clamped yet. I think just water but the first joint is a little dirty.
Any thoughts on directly uploading videos in forum. My phone records in MP4 I believe but the insert video says only MP3. I know not to many people upload videos other than YouTube links.
Does anyone know what hoops I will need to jump through.
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Well it is running good now. I still have a fuel leak after the filter. I will need to look into that. But I am very happy. It starts easy and clean.
So this is the way I did it. My first YouTube upload.
Starts easy. I am not reving it here.
I still need to look at that fuel leak.
I still need to polarize the generator
I have been topping off the fluids between running the engine.
Is this engine a rebuilt one with new Camshaft and Lifters?
If it is, and hasn't had the Cam run in, then DO NOT PROCEED ANY FURTHER until you are prepared to "Run the Cam in".
Bruce. >:D
At the risk of saying something you already know, my apologies, but resist the temptation of starting the engine just to hear how nice it sounds until you can get the car out and give it a good run ---
"Idle time and low load on a freshly rebuilt engine can result in "glazing" of the cylinder walls and prevent the rings from ever sealing correctly."
"After an initial start, the engine should be run for 20 minutes at 2000 RPM to ensure initial break-in of the camshaft." If you have leaks or something that needs immediate attention, stop the run, fix the problem, restart and run right back up to 2000 RPM to finish the 20 minute run. This is important.
Looks wonderful.
Running the breakin is next after the leaks are fixed. I cannot run it with gas leaking on top.
Immeasurable damage will be caused to the Cam and Lifters even if the engine is left to idle for up to 5 minutes.
The reason for the 2,000 to 2,500 RPM for nothing less that 20 minutes is that the Cam Lobes and Lifter faces are only lubricated from oil splashed up from the rotating crankshaft. Idling is not fast enough for the oil to be thrown out and wiping the Cam Lobes and Lifters. I do nothing less than 2,500 Revs.
Plus, the reason for the length of time is so that oil will get into the microscopic pores of the cam and lifters. Once these areas have been sufficiently lubricated, and all of them, then the engine can be idled, BUT, not for long periods, especially when new.
Bruce. >:D
PS. Sometimes it is best to not have the owner anywhere within earshot of the running in as the sound of the "screaming" engine can be a bit off-putting to someone who wants to baby their pride and joy. I know from experience.
PPS. Plus, connect up a tachometer to observe the revolutions. You will be surprised what the free-running engine will sound like. So will the Neighbours.
Does anyone have a suggestion for a temporary tachometer set up for my next step. I don't want to just cycle by ear.
If you can find a dwell/ tach combination (I think they're still for sale), the dwell meter element of this combo will serve as a valuable tool for tune ups. The engine sounds terrific. Never heard of the break in rpm/time...Bruce knows his stuff! A consideration worthy of discussion... this might be a good time to set up a pcv for the engine. Certainly helps to remove damaging condensation from the ''internals'' on occasional used cars. Happy day, James
The Dwell Gauges with the Tach is ideal, and is simple to install. Just read the instructions that come with the units.
If one has a GM HEI Ignition, then there is already a Tach terminal in the distributor cap.
As for break-in times, procedures, etc. that is why mechanics get paid so much ;) They go to school and learn stuff.
Plus, if not a mechanic, then reading about this stuff is in most Shop Manuals, but if not, should be.
Don't forget that the breaking-in of the Cam and Lifters is different to the Bedding-in of the Piston Rings. The Bedding in can only be done when the car is on the road -- unless one has access to an engine Dynamometer, then life is easier.
At least with the Dyno, as against on the road, care must be taken to do the bedding-in when there are no other vehicles around to get in the way, as others won't be aware of what you are doing, or get in the way of your seemingly odd accelerating and slowing, multiple times.
Bruce. >:D
Prepping my winter work.
Some painting
Some Chrome
Radio Restoration
Speedometer Restoration
Some electrical
Painting is free
Chrome is maybe a thousand
Radio restoration maybe a thousand
Electrical is a thousand
I don't know how much the speedometer will be yet.
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Instrument panel and painted window trim. I have a few spares so I will pick whichever one turns out best.
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Some of these need little cleanup. Others will need more work.
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The A pillar covers have an exposed polished aluminum edge. I will need to polish these before paint.
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The painted seat and B pillar trim is a different color. Non metallic.
I took a part up to be color matched and get a pint of paint mixed. It was $100 and they made the wrong color. I never checked it while there because they took forever and I had to get out of there. So I will need new paint mixed.
I am missing one of the B pillar trim pieces. I remember I took it out to see how it would go in the bead blaster. But I must have set it on a shelf and left it somewhere.
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Found it IMG_20231123_161016241.jpg
Dash parts first.
My sandable primer dries fast. But it is not sandable fast. So I always wait overnight before sanding.
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Do you sand them as preparation for the clearcoat?
Quote from: Clewisiii on November 23, 2023, 04:46:49 PMDash parts first.
My sandable primer dries fast. But it is not sandable fast. So I always wait overnight before sanding.
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Quote from: 6262 on November 24, 2023, 01:22:33 AMDo you sand them as preparation for the clearcoat?
No this is just a single stage no clear coat. The zinc had pitted over time. So after blasting out the pits I needed to build back up for the paint coat. My original try at painting the interior left a lot of runs. It was in the winter in my non heated old shop. So it was not a good finish. On the lower part most of the runs were on the return lips. And sense in vehicle the return lips are the parts you see first I had to fix them all. I will fixture and hold these parts in a different way when I paint this time.
I love freshly painted parts and chrome bits laid out. Its like jewelry and sculpture at an art show.
Sanded the primer, a couple I needed to recoat and one spot of filler. I might be able to start paint tomorrow.
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Pulling out the trim that needs to be painted, I will need to polish the aluminum on the two pieces before I can repaint. IMG_20231124_113026641.jpg
But pulling out those pieces I pulled out the rest so that I can inventory the trim. I did notice a couple missing pieces that might have fallen into the racking. The last time I talked to someone about mirror polishing the trim. They told me $20 a foot. There is over a hundred ft.
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I had tried tightening the fitting just after the filter a couple of times. So I decided to just switch out the filter with my spare.
I will not test it until I get a tachometer to run the break in cycle. But I am feeling hopeful. IMG_20231125_103717699.jpg
Starting my first coat of paint. It is working out but I wish I had a finer tip for better atomization. IMG_20231125_103734129.jpg
It is drying much faster then last time. But I think that is the difference between drying in 63 degrees and 43 degrees.
One of my ash tray covers fell. I will need to sand and repaint again. IMG_20231125_113142444.jpg
I wish I had taken a before picture. Polishing out key scratches. IMG_20231125_113755103.jpg
Quote from: Clewisiii on November 25, 2023, 10:50:21 AMIt is drying much faster then last time. But I think that is the difference between drying in 63 degrees and 43 degrees.
I am pretty sure that temperatures really do make a difference. ;) Actually, a lot of difference, especially when humidity is involved.
Bruce. >:D
Much better results. But one little disappointment.
The coat with metallic is very consistent this time. No runs at all.
But since it was not as thick of an initial coat, I have more orange peel than last time. But I don't think enough to bother me.
I was able to sand and save that ashtray cover.
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I once heard a painter say the best paint job is one big run.
Thanks... now I got it.
Quote from: Clewisiii on November 24, 2023, 07:35:07 AMNo this is just a single stage no clear coat. The zinc had pitted over time. So after blasting out the pits I needed to build back up for the paint coat. My original try at painting the interior left a lot of runs. It was in the winter in my non heated old shop. So it was not a good finish. On the lower part most of the runs were on the return lips. And sense in vehicle the return lips are the parts you see first I had to fix them all. I will fixture and hold these parts in a different way when I paint this time.
This is really impressive if it isn't rechromed. How exactly did you do this?
Quote from: Clewisiii on November 25, 2023, 11:38:58 AMI wish I had taken a before picture. Polishing out key scratches. IMG_20231125_113755103.jpg
Well only the outer ring is chrome. The center plate is stainless. The stainless polished up from the buffing machine.
The outer ring had rust dots. But nothing to cancerous yet. They cleaned up with just the buffing machine as well.
Really impressive. What kind of buffing machine do you use? Do you add some sort of abrasive compound?
Quote from: Clewisiii on November 26, 2023, 06:15:47 AMWell only the outer ring is chrome. The center plate is stainless. The stainless polished up from the buffing machine.
The outer ring had rust dots. But nothing to cancerous yet. They cleaned up with just the buffing machine as well.
I finally bought one of these. Smaller then I pictured. I would still like one of the Fleetwood Trim books like Dan LeBlanc has.
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Dang I ordered and received my digital automotive multimeter to monitor RPM during break in. But then realized it did not come with the inductive clamp for the rpm.
So ordered that. I might not find the time to actually do all that until Christmas break.
I have a large selection of rubber bumpers. But it still seems to never be enough. I think I have only a couple of one version that will work for my ashtray bumpers. But I guess that will be enough.
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Steele rubber has them, spendy but they are available.
https://www.steelerubber.com/search?q=ash+tray
I think I am happy for now with what I got. I will check again when I install to the complete instrument panel
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I know people have just painted the inside of their Ashtrays black. But if I cannot find reproductions I will just have mine chromed.
I know the inside will still be pitted. And most likely will not have a good uniform plating. But I can live with that.
I tested the lighters a couple of years ago. They heated up nicely. IMG_20231203_120359418.jpg
I have spent years trying to decide what color to paint these.
I believe they should be the same color.
One is painted over chrome, one is painted over zinc.
I believe the colors have changed or faded differently across each.
On both of them the color is different under the areas that were protected or not visible.
The chrome part has more of a bronze tint.
The zinc part has more of a dark pewter color.
When I looked at the painted blue parts the paint over stainless steel was still correct. The paint over zinc had discolored.
So I think more of the metallic bronze tint over the chrome should be correct.
I have purchased many spray cans of paint over the years trying to determine the best to use.
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So I had said this winter was going to be an interior restoration time.
I am trying to determine what will need to be rechromed and what I will need to do first. The big bezel pieces of course will be first. That is why I need to confirm the paint color I want before I strip the old paint off. But I just wanted to show off these vent pieces.
Mice had eaten through my original vent deflectors. And I was missing one chrome handle. So I have collected more pieces over the years. I think I am in a good place for parts. But now I will need to figure out the costs for new chrome plating. In the past a shop told me they did not want to mess with a small part.
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My steering wheel chrome is great. But not perfect. I will get a quote for new chrome to determine how much I care about it.
The shifter and turn signal indicator are bad. So since those will need to be new chrome I will have new chrome under old if I leave this.
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For a while I thought the inner area of the seat side trim was brushed chrome. But now I see it looks more like it was a sandblast texture. I don't know if this was plated over texture, or if it was painted.
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Carl,
Your focus on chrome parts jogged my memory... I owned a lovely '61 convertible back in the mid 60's through the early 1970's. It was the 62 model, but under the white paint just in front of the windshield, the fresh air inlets and the cowl piece (I think cowl is the right word), that entire piece, which is nearly the width of the car was chrome under the paint. It remains a ''puzzlement'' to this day. Other, unrelated observations-- one upper shock bracket in the rear broke its wield... also, tie rods that mound under the radiator to a cross member -- that cross member broke its wield on both sides. The flex plate ''ears'' snapped in several places, so I had yet another job for an experience wielder. This obviusly became a high mileage car, and overtime, the engine blow-by was beyond tolerable, so I rigged a pcv to the intake to vacuum up the toxic smoke. Alas, typical of high mileage GM cars of this era, the odometer locked up so I have no idea how to track these issues to mileage. Rust through around the headlights I repaired frequently with Bondo and a rattle can. That 61 ran and ran... but way down the line, following 10 years of ownership, it refused to go into reverse. It was a lovely, durable car, and with the tires (underinflated) to factory specs, it was a joy to drive. James
I packaged all the stainless that will need to be polished. This will be thousands to get them professionally mirror polished. IMG_20231204_180505496.jpg
All the parts that will need to be painted are set aside. I will need to strip and sand them. Two parts are aluminum and will need to be polished and anodized first.
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I had two glove box bins reflocked. And in doing that I noticed a midyear change.
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The early build had an offset guide pin. They must have realized that was stupid.
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Because mid year they changed to an inline guide pin. They had to cut a new hole in the bin.
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My rear seat grab handle chrome is nice enough that I do not want to rechromed them. But I would like to paint them. But to do that I would need to remove the pins to separate the handle. And doing that would probably cause more damage.
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Wow, I just learned something I did not want to know.
An uncut key will turn my ignition cylinder.
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Goes to prove that one doesn't know what someone else has done in the past.
The previous owner probably had many cars, and decided that he only needed one key, so modified all his cars to allow any key to work.
Bruce. >:D
An hour left tonight to tinker. I am not really going to start anything. Just looking at and thinking about stuff.
I don't know if I will repair my own steering wheel or send it out. I think these chrome pieces need to be removed then the wheel built up and repaired around them. The did not all shrink in the same direction. I do not want to add material to the dark blue section. I would rather build up the light blue since it has no texture.
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The steering wheel is one part that I go all in for. That is the thing you get to grab when driving the car, why not have it nice. I sent my 55 Eldo wheel to Dennis Crooks and he recasts them with the transluent/color as the original, not paint. Rechroming the divider pieces is done as well. He had the molds for the knobs and cast those to match. His molds have the correct texture for the grips. It is expensive, but worth it to me.
I will send him my Eldo Brougham wheel when it goes through the fountain of youth.
https://qualityrestorations.com/cadillac-steering-wheels/
Dave, by knobs do you mean the stalks. Because these will at least need to be chrome but I cannot get them apart. IMG_20231208_105254258.jpg
Yes, those knobs. I would talk to Dennis and see if he has the molds for '61. If he does, you can remove them. Place the assemblies in boiling water to soften the plastic and they pull straight off. I checked McVey's and they have up to 1960 for new knobs and chromed ends, but not 61 and I don't know if they are different. I bought McVey's 55 knob set and used the new chrome parts and Dennis' molded knobs. If Dennis does not have 61 knobs, you can ask him to make some and provide yours as the pattern. He can advise, but I would not remove them if you run that play.
Dave, that was Warren Gear and Axle you had recommended correct. They told me this is all I will need to bring in so that is a lot less weight.
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Yes, Warren gear is the shop I recommended to you.
My original glove box lock housing was broken. And I know these are hard to source.
I got lucky that my parts car lock housing was good.
But when I look between them, and the spring tab inside, I do not see what is physically broken on the first one. IMG_20231208_233708952.jpgIMG_20231208_233726916.jpg
It looks like the top one, the press button comes out further than the lower one.
Bruce. >:D
Well I got about half way through my CAM breakin when I scared myself.
In the end everything looks good.
No more fuel leak so I started it.
Oil PSI 28
RPM 2800-3500
Block around 180F
Exhaust manifold 430F
Some smoke from exhaust and draft pipe at first, but it all cleared up.
I had a my dad near by as another set of ears to see if you can hear any issues. We both agree this engine sounds good. Even at 2500 rpm it did not seem like it was loud at all to me. I was questioning the Tachometer a bit. IMG_20231209_151023467.jpg
But then I saw a lot of liquid on the ground near my gas can and was worried I had a fuel leak at my can or fuel line. So I shut it off.
No it was just water. So I looked around at my hoses to see if I had a leak. I could not find anything then was temporarily worried I lost a freeze plug. Then I realized I was an idiot and remembered it has an overflow tube. I could not remember how much water was in it but I filled the radiator with another 1/2 gallon of water before I started. That was all it was.
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I will run this again with a bucket under it.
I got in my whole half hour of breakin time. Carrying from 2500-3500 RPM then drop to 2000 and 600 cool off cycle before shutdown. The battery powered meter out itself off every 10 minutes and each time I turned it back on I had to switch the settings from 2 stroke back to 4 stroke. But I am happy. It sounded beautiful the whole time it was running.
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No more water ejection this time. I almost made a mistake as the exhaust was heating up. I looked down and my oil pressure gauge hose was on the muffler. But I got it just as it started to smoke.
The manifolds were floating in the mid 500s heated up this pipe nicely. IMG_20231209_173600729.jpg
When I did my engine priming I had the valve cover off to check for oil flow. It leaked out this back corner. For the first 15 minutes of running there was a steady little stream of smoke from this back corner. I guess I worked all that off. IMG_20231209_173618317.jpg
The intake manifold paint started to cook in the center. But I expected that. This is the hot spot. IMG_20231209_173413237.jpg
I started to get an oil leak at my oil pressure gauge port. But not enough to bug me. I need to put the pressure sending unit back in anyway now that I know everything is good.
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I tried using my shopvac hose to direct exhaust out the door. That didn't last long. I just left the big door wide and turned on my spray booth exhaust fan. IMG_20231209_174109354.jpg
And yes I did burn my calf on the exhaust pipe once as I was leaning over to adjust the throttle. I was doing so good and I finally touched it at the very end when I throttled down for cool off. I watched the block heat up to a max 195 before regulating itself back down to mid 180. I am happy.
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Quick question for the group. I had my generator hooked up. And I had it tested after I rebuilt it 6 years ago. But I never verified it was charging the battery before my breakin.
Would the battery have kept the car running for the whole half hour if it was not charging.
G'day Carl,
Firstly, congratulations on getting the Cam Running-in done, and now you can understand why an owner should not be around when doing this. It is scary for the first-timer.
There was no reason to vary the revs over the 2,000 to 2,500 as it is not necessary to perform the task at hand.
Plus, when completing the task, don't let the engine idle, just turn it off.
As you have witnessed, the temperatures can get really unbelievable at times, which is why I always recommend anyone doing procedures like this, have a look at what a normal engine and once you see the temperatures, you will see that these are not unusual.
Without the charging system working, the engine will run just on a battery for many hours, as the Ignition on its' own doesn't draw that much, unlike headlights when driving at night. Years ago, I had to drive my road car some 30 miles when the Generator died, and using the headlights sparingly, I was able to get home with no problems.
Now, your next task with the engine is to "Bed the Rings in" when able to get the car on the road. BUT, don't leave it for too long, as you could end up having to replace the Head Gaskets as these need longer to obtain a complete sealing of the surfaces to the heads/block. I know, as I had the problem with a car I restored. Ran the Cam in, but events happened that the Bedding in didn't get done for another 5 years, and the head gaskets leaked coolant.
Bruce. >:D
These door handle trim pieces are my biggest fear for rechroming costs. IMG_20231210_132438633.jpg
Multipiece riveted together.
Areas of brush chrome next to bright chrome.
Pot metal construction.
And hard to find a replacement if there is anything wrong.
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I totally understand your fears and trepidation with this next phase.
By now you will have found out that all the pieces will have to be separated before plating, plus, all the little pit marks will have to be completely cleaned out of any impurities, and filled prior to plating.
The factories used "Pot Metal" to create these parts because it was cheap, and easily castable to create intricate pieces, but there was never any thought to restoration years down the track.
Bruce. >:D
Decided to clean up my Rag joints. I have two of these. This is the first the second is still in the tank.
I know it would not originally been plated. But this is better looking then a rust layer. IMG_20231210_180034593.jpg
Grant from New Zealand got back to me.
He is almost done with the 61 exhaust hanger set I have been working with Him on.
After I get a set I will let you know how they fit. He will have extras. IMG_1234.jpeg
I am going to need to look through my spare hardware.
I am missing one bolt and clipped washer from the glove box hinge.
I still have my parts car if I need it. IMG_20231211_112931610.jpgIMG_20231211_113007625.jpg
Does anyone know if this style of wire harness retainer is available.
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I will need at least four. I can make something work. But as long as they are not $10 a piece using the correct part is easier then figuring out a modification.
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I went through my automotive fastener bins and only found two styles of wire harness retainers. But those were for oblong not round holes for anti rotation. IMG_20231211_114226597.jpg
Good news. While I was looking for wire harness retainers I found another tray of rubber bumpers. This is a much better selection for the glove box and ashtrays.
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So now a debate. Do I assemble, or do I pack away.
I want to assemble so that I can work through all the parts to make sure they are correct. This will get installed in the car as one big piece except for the end caps anyway. And I built a nice frame to hold the assembly. The cross car beam has been on this frame in my basement for years. But if I assemble it will be in my shop and not my basement. I do not want to carry the complete dash up the stairs. And I would wrap the whole thing with packing blankets and let it sit for a couple of more years in the shop till the body is painted.
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The next step is
Radio
Instrument cluster
Chrome main bezel
Chrome HVAC bezel
Wire harness
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I will not chrome the speaker cover. It is good enough. But I will be able to put power to this and test most things while on the stand. Honestly I have the room in the shop. There is a corner with my hood trunk lid fenders and doors. Once I switch to the body I can pull those out and tuck this in there.
I did this once before, but now I have more options. I will let them dry then get your opinions. IMG_20231212_195712084.jpg
Those ashtrays take quite a bit of adjustment. It will be some back and forth.
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I am going to take my lock to a locksmith when I go to get my new keys cut. After that I will install it to the glovebox to be able to final adjust it.
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I will need the cluster bezel to balance off the gap from the column shroud to the center ashtray. IMG_20231212_214437986.jpg
Ok the painted bezels. I have ten different metallic paint samples.
Looking at my originals I swear there is a brown or bronze tint to the paint.
Now thru have discolored differently between the two. But I am looking at the darker edge on the chrome piece that was protected and hidden behind the outer bezel. I assume this is more true to the original color. IMG_20231212_195712084.jpgIMG_20231212_215644536.jpg
I tried taking pictures from different angles to show the metallic variation
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I think the two closest is Gun metal or Metallic bronze. If I decide it is a brown bronze tint I think I will select that one. If I decide that is just nicotine stain that cannot come out I will select gun metal. But they do have a big variation depending on the angle you view it from.
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Close up with metallic dark bronze. There is such a difference between radio bezel and speedometer bezel that it could really go any way.
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Quote from: Clewisiii on December 12, 2023, 09:46:04 PMI will need the cluster bezel to balance off the gap from the column shroud to the center ashtray. IMG_20231212_214437986.jpg
Nice jukebox!
Carl,
I took some photos from the '63 master parts list which shows 1961 paint colors for the paint codes. It also lists which parts get painted, very helpful. I found a data tag at the beginning of the thread and it looks like your trim is 63, Windsor Blue Metallic. At the top of the page, it lists the parts included in the color charts below. Seems some of the I/P parts were painted Gloucester Gray L38A-009 and I wonder if those are the ones perplexing you.
After posting, I continued to search and found with the radio bezel, looks like it was released by the accessories group, radio, one part number shown, so not proliferated by paint colors. Also the cluster housing shows one part number and no proliferation. These 2 parts are not identified in the other trim groupings, so you might be back on your own to finding the closest match.
Quote from: Clewisiii on December 12, 2023, 10:16:56 PMClose up with metallic dark bronze. There is such a difference between radio bezel and speedometer bezel that it could really go any way.
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I think they are 2 different colors now and your match is close enough that no one could challenge it as being incorrect. I have changed my mind after looking at various online photos and believe the radio bezel is dominate since it is the largest exposed surface and If it were me, I would match the speedo bezel using the same paint.
I asked Rick to have a look at his unrestored 61 Fleetwood and he said he would. Also he said he as access to another unrestored 61 and was going to get photos of both. He thought they were chrome, but we should have some reference points in few days to help this mystery.
Ok I bought from Jessers a "Vintage 60s Cadillac gold plated Keychain"
This is just a plated cut off key blanks.
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This weekend I will change out the Cam breakin oil with what will be in it until the rest of the breakin is done. I have been warned to mostly ignore what the initial oil looks like after the first 30 minute run.
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There are a few things that I still need to find. Specifically the Fleetwood fender emblems, or the door pull red lense.
But in general I am confident I now have, or know where I can get, everything else I need to finish my car.
That feels very good to be in that position.
Quote from: Clewisiii on December 13, 2023, 01:05:11 PMThis is just a plated cut off key blanks.
Doesn't look like a very good cutting of the key.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: Clewisiii on December 13, 2023, 03:15:54 PMThis weekend I will change out the Cam breakin oil with what will be in it until the rest of the breakin is done. I have been warned to mostly ignore what the initial oil looks like after the first 30 minute run.
I would be retaining the Break-in oil until the first oil change, at say 500 Miles.
All Break-in oil is is Straight 30 weight, with no Friction Modifier, and is ideal for bedding in the Piston Rings as well as the Cam Lobes and Lifters. One definitely does not want any Friction Modifiers, as the friction with regards the Rings to Cylinder Wall action is extremely important. Rings NEED the friction to bed in. Nothing worse than glazing up the bores, as this leads to oil consumption and loss of performance.
I believe that 100% Synthetic is not ideal for the basic bedding-in of engines, especially rebuilt ones as the Quality Control of the rebuilding process is not as good as original construction, where each and every part is constantly machined/built with the closest tolerances that mass-production can deliver.
Bruce. >:D
Looking at the dash wire harness parts that do not come as part of Lectric Limiteds dash harness. That is trunk release and lights that have connectors.
I will need to decide if I will just clean up these or buy parts and make new.
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Plus cleaning the dash light lense covers.
IMG_20231213_185601222.jpg.
There are 28 stamped metal locking tabs across these window switches.
Caddy Daddy does sell these for $10 a piece. So with shipping that would be $300 for a very hidden part. But if they are bent and loose I risk electrical problems.
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I will have the frames chromed. Maybe $50 a piece. All I can do is clean and polish the switches. Caddy daddy wants $100 for a button. Hopefully the contact base is good.
Yes Fusick has them cheaper
I have an original unrestored'61 Fleetwood that I can check on Thursday if you're still concerned about the dash sections.
I looked at my parts car and that one has no bronze tint at all. But it also had a texture to it that is highly suspect.
Just tinkering today, and thinking more about chrome. IMG_20231214_180220041.jpg
My original washer nozzles and escustions were horribly pitted. I was very worried about costs to restore these terrible parts IMG_20231214_180225776.jpg
I managed to find a nicer set on eBay a while ago. Plus a new set of nozzles. These will be much easier to rechromed without the pits. IMG_20231214_180229423_BURST000_COVER.jpg
I dropped off my rear end gear at Warren Gear and Axle today. Hard shop to get into. One narrow driveway between two other businesses with no sign at the road. I will hopefully hear next week if there is any issue. But I do not anticipate anything.
Next week I am going to order a stainless steel brake line kit for my car.
I am ordering from Inland tube. They are make to order so I might not get them till the New Year.
I am using a duel master from a 62 on my car. So I am ordering the line set from 62.
Before I had my frame powder coated I asked about a couple of broken clips. I did not know what they went to or what was broken off. Well Inline tube sells them and they were brake line clips that pressed in the frame around the shock towers and over the rear end.Screenshot 2023-12-15 202902.png
Years ago I had modified the tip of a hex socket to tighten this glovebox bezel. You think I can find it now.
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The longer you keep looking for it, you will find it, and when you find it, stop looking, as it will always be in the last place you look. ;)
Bruce. >:D
While the gear assembly is at the shop, time to clean up the housing. IMG_20231216_212940272.jpg
I cleaned them. I plated them. I bagged them. Now I cannot find them. The clipped head axle bolts.
I need to check my other garage to see if they walked into there. IMG_20230924_135847748_HDR.jpg
Alright. I became a destructive tornado and I found them.
They were where they should have been but I overlooked them 3 times.
I have another set on the parts car. But that would have been annoying to have to tear out.
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I had my car out today, and looking closely at the dash, it does look like the instrument cluster and radio surrounds do have slightly different tints. And my car is an unrestored original that was stored for 30 years.
Quote from: David Greenburg on December 17, 2023, 02:41:39 AMI had my car out today, and looking closely at the dash, it does look like the instrument cluster and radio surrounds do have slightly different tints. And my car is an unrestored original that was stored for 30 years.
Yes I think that is due to the two different materials. At first I thought the dash and window trim were two different colors. But the dash is painted on cast zinc and the window trim was steel. The cast parts all got darker over time.
IMG_0412.JPG
I managed to see that on the steering column shifter stalk the area that was covered with a stainless trim did not discolor like the rest. So using this logic The lighter bronzer tint on the speedometer surround would be closer to the correct color then the cast zinc radio bezel.
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I ordered a 1962 stainless steel brake line set for my car. I am using the booster and master cylinder from 62 to have duel zone.
I called inline tube and he said they did not make brake lines for the car. Only Eldorado and DeVille. I had to inform them they were the same wheel base and I will take the risk. Screenshot_20231219-115933.png
I may have found the closest rattle can color I am going to get.
This is with the assumption that the color on the chrome is the closest to original.
IMG_20231220_133039188.jpg
My pre-bent stainless brake lines arrived from Inline tube. Only two days since the order.
The guy on the phone told me they did not make brake lines for the series 60 only Eldorado with 129.5 wheel base. I told him all but limos were 129.5 wheel base.
So I ordered from their listing on eBay.
I will need to do some straightening from the shipping bends. Then fish around the front end lines.
I am using a master from 62 to have duel zone. So I ordered lines for 62 as well.
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I put some of the new paint on half of the radio cover. I think I am happy with this option to repaint both the covers.
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I don't know what I was expecting. But that caution follow jacking instructions label is small. Took me by surprise. IMG_20231227_154700530.jpg
A guy an hour drive away from me posted a spare tire cover for sale on Facebook. He pulled it out of a scrap metal pile and sold it to me for $25.
It sandblasted nice. Light pits and only one dent to hammer out. I will add this to my next batch of powdercoat parts. Good to have a spare.
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Finally taking these the rest of the way apart. I need to rechrome the turn knobs. But I will polish up the rods and run the plastic through the sonic cleaner.
When I go to the chrome shop I will ask them if it will be easier to plate and work with these pre pressed to the rods. Or if the cleaners and acid would make them fall off.
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Seeing what I can do with this license plate light.
I will plate the housing.
Might be able to reuse the wire. But if I need to I can make a new one.
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That lense though. They do not make a repop one for 61. The other years might fit. But I don't want to buy one just to test yet.
So I will try some resto bright to see if it will clean up. IMG_20231230_215228934.jpg
I pulled out some more bags of hardware that need to be restored.
I have a question about these body side molding fasteners that go in the trim on the outside edge of the doors.
I was going to try to acid clean sandblast these. But I think nothing will be left.
These just provide a hole for a screw on the outside flanges of the doors.
Has anyone found a substitute?
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License plate light looks much nicer cleaned up and replated.
I will need to figure out the wiring, cut a new gasket, and see about that lense.
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One remedy is bag it in hydrogen peroxide and place in the sun for 4 hours.
Well I have peroxide. But I don't believe I will have sun for 3-4 months. IMG_20231231_110652676.jpg
I like to celebrate every little success or step forward. Otherwise a person could get very discouraged.
The vent knob rods are cleaned up. I only need two. But always good to have spares. One is a little bent.
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I had worried that these fender spear light bases were to far gone to restore.
For a while I was looking for another set.
Well the bases are cleaning up nice. There are some electrical parts I will need but I know where to get them.
The chrome is only light pitting and I think will replate nicely.
I am very happy with them.
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Very happy. Thanks to who made the suggestion for YNZ they sell the parts I need to rebuild the bulb bases.
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Now can someone direct me to the most economical supplier of the Packard connectors.
I only need one side since the mating connector will be on the wire harness.
YNZ will only sell singles in male/female pairs at $10 a piece.
There are kits for $200 but they only have a few sets of the single wire connectors then a lot of others I will not use.
Any suggestions of suppliers would be appreciated.
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Curiosity question. The fender turn indicators are a single wire. What is the ground path.
Just trying to plan where I need to sand down some paint and primer. I assume the rear fender lower attachment below the rocker panel.
Doesnt YNZ Yesterday sell them? I'm pretty sure they do. They seem to have everything.
I get mine from eBay. The price says each, but it is for each packet.
ebay item No 371216892290
Bruce. >:D
YNZ only sells in male female pairs for $10. I only need one side since the other side already comes on the wire harness from Lectric Limited.
I have considered myself lazy for going so long without restoring these firewall brackets for the dash top pad.
Now I need to get a new jar of plastidip to freshen up the rubber coating. IMG_20231231_213707671.jpg
In the past people had talked about how hard it was to find 1/2 inch masking tape like was originally used to hold the body mounts in place.
Some would hand cut the standard 3/4 inch wide tape.
Well now we have Amazon. IMG_20231231_223541675.jpg
I cant wait to see this fully done at a Grand National.
Quote from: Clewisiii on December 31, 2023, 08:44:45 PMYNZ only sells in male female pairs for $10. I only need one side since the other side already comes on the wire harness from Lectric Limited.
If you only want a couple, I could post some to you, but you probably want them now?
I have to buy some more to build my stocks back up as I have nearly exhausted what I had doing a loom for a mate.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 31, 2023, 11:24:16 PMIf you only want a couple, I could post some to you, but you probably want them now?
I have to buy some more to build my stocks back up as I have nearly exhausted what I had doing a loom for a mate.
Bruce. >:D
I bought some on Amazon. I found a listing for the individuals I wanted. But only in a ten pack and only one available. I was hoping to buy at least 3 or four packs. But I will work with what I have got for now. I will work on turn indicator lights lower fog lamps, and dash lights for now.
Do you have the proper crimping tool? They make a huge difference.
I persevered for many years using the wrong tools, but when I found the correct ones, it really made a difference.
Bruce. >:D
I was looking around today at the crimpers. They all said they were for the new versions. I don't know if they are backwards comparable. But I will keep looking.
I added one more picture to the above, and mine do most versions that were available when I purchased them.
Bruce. >:D
Cleaning up my top of tail fin trim clips. Those screws are so small they fell into my sandblaster. I had to empty and filter the sand three times.
All the screws went into the plating bath. But one fell on the floor when coming out of the tank.
I went to my parts car to rob one off there but the later build must have changed the clip style. There were no screw holes to secure the clips. No big deal I will find a new screw.
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I don't know what their reasoning is. But the Amazon system will only allow you to buy one at a time saying only one is available. But after each purchase there is magically another one available. That is annoying. Next I need to get with YNZ for the bulb bases. I tried to order from them online. But online purchases do not actually process from them until they confirm. So I will just call.
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I cannot believe their pricing. But, people do have to make money.
Over many years, I have been removing all these plastic pieces from looms that I have stripped for the wire, and have never had to purchase any wire or plastic pieces for looms that I have made.
Especially handy when doing RHD Conversions as the colour coded wire is ideal for lengthening parts of looms.
Bruce. >:D
The ends showed up today. I get the housings at the weekend. Now I need to pick my crimping tool.
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Since I have electrical parts coming I thought I would try to restore a lower running light.
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I have 4 of these total so I have some I can make mistakes with.
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The wiring base is a single plastic plate that is staked in place on the copper.
I cracked this base trying to force it out. But I think it is repairable.
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IMG_20240104_203215405.jpg
YNZ sells a duel wire bulb repair base but it is a different style.
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Well I ordered the Fleetwood fender Crest and crowns from Summit racing.
I am certain I will soon get an email saying these are no longer available.
img_0928.jpg1960-62_Fleetwood_KotflügelEmblemA_b.jpg
Quote from: Clewisiii on January 05, 2024, 10:48:34 AMWell I ordered the Fleetwood fender Crest and crowns from Summit racing.
I am certain I will soon get an email saying these are no longer available.
img_0928.jpg1960-62_Fleetwood_KotflügelEmblemA_b.jpg
Have faith Carl....this time they're going to be there ! haha !
Mike
Polishing up the inside of this running light prior to plating. This one is my test. It also has a broken trim screw stuck in it. I may try to drill it out if this comes out clean.
The more polished they are. The brighter they will be during plating.
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With enough prep I think that these can be very reflective on the inside.
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But I will need to drill out this broken screw.
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This crimping tool sucks.
I could probably force it to work. But it does not do what it needs to.
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My interior bulb sockets and bulb bases terminal ends arrived from YNZ.
These terminal ends are needed for both the interior lights. And top of fender indicator and lower running lights.
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I do not know where I would have found these little crimp on bulb bases terminal ends if it had not been for the listing on YNZ.
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Wiring for one of my turn indicator fixtures is done. Now all I need it the chrome. IMG_20240105_155438694.jpg
That original wiring was very dry and brittle.
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If someone can educate me on the lower light functions. There are two wires. A blue and white. Do you believe it matters on which side is which when they only go to one bulb.
When I build my first one I will reference back to one I have not taken apart yet to make sure they match. I just want to be educated on the function.
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It does matter which way they go around, as one wire will power the one filament in the globe, and the other wire, the other filament in the globe.
The orientation of the globe in the socket will be guided by the different lengths of the side lugs on the globe.
If they are a different wattage filament, then the lugs will be offset, but if they are the same wattage, then the lugs will be parallel.
It is hard to see if there is an alignment register in the globe holder to locate the terminal block, but there should be one there to stop the insulator from turning when inserting the globe.
Now, back to the tool you purchased, I believe it is the wrong one, as it doesn't have the width to provide the different swaging of the terminal at the one time.
Notice the stepped mandrel? One side is for the wire crimp, and the adjacent one, albeit it a bit larger, for the insulation.
The problem I have found with the modern terminals, the plated ones, is that they are thicker than the original all-copper ones, and it takes more pressure to complete the crimp. When I purchased my initial lot years ago, they came in a string, meaning that each one had to be clipped off the "chain", whereas the latest ones are individual.
Bruce. >:D
Several sources on the internet recommend this tool as the best one available. In this video he is working with a Packard 56 Series terminal. I need to buy a suitable tool, too. But I wonder if this one is a bit of an overkill or if it actually makes sense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=-ykp4yHttPM
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 05, 2024, 07:58:59 PMIt does matter which way they go around, as one wire will power the one filament in the globe, and the other wire, the other filament in the globe.
The orientation of the globe in the socket will be guided by the different lengths of the side lugs on the globe.
If they are a different wattage filament, then the lugs will be offset, but if they are the same wattage, then the lugs will be parallel.
It is hard to see if there is an alignment register in the globe holder to locate the terminal block, but there should be one there to stop the insulator from turning when inserting the globe.
Now, back to the tool you purchased, I believe it is the wrong one, as it doesn't have the width to provide the different swaging of the terminal at the one time.
Notice the stepped mandrel? One side is for the wire crimp, and the adjacent one, albeit it a bit larger, for the insulation.
The problem I have found with the modern terminals, the plated ones, is that they are thicker than the original all-copper ones, and it takes more pressure to complete the crimp. When I purchased my initial lot years ago, they came in a string, meaning that each one had to be clipped off the "chain", whereas the latest ones are individual.
Bruce. >:D
Mine came in a kit. Chinese, but not that dear.
Bruce. >:D
This time able to do a side by side before and after.
It was multiple round of acid cleaning and sandblasting to clean up the rear bracket.
You know it is a lot of work to do this. And if I was charging someone for my services it would not be worth it for how much I may charge.
IMG_20240106_160531302.jpg
By the way the light base has a 2 and 3 embossed by the wire holes. The 2 is Blue easy to remember. But the plastic base is not keyed so it can be put in backwards. So I compared to one still assembled.
The original blue and white wires were formed together. I cannot do that so I will need to tape them. Now I just need to order the right tape.
The base of the socket to the wires had a rubber "boot". This was not a separate part but was formed in place on the wire and base. Not saveable and not reusable.
So I will tape it off and brush on black weatherstrip adhesive to build my own boot. Should seal and waterproof nicely.
IMG_20240106_174412397.jpg
Maybe glue them together carefully? If they were fused together might be nice to try and retain that since you're being so detail oriented.
I am going to have to add up and find all the different bulbs for this dash harness. I think there are at least 2-3 styles of bulbs.
I don't mind switching to LED if they are practical. Bright, long lasting, and cooler then incandescent are nice featured to me. IMG_20240106_192248748.jpg
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I decided I am going to rebuild this forward headlight harness myself.
It is fairly simple. And I only need a purple, light blue and light brown wire all solid colors. Those should be easy to get. Save myself $400 on this one.
I will still need to buy the Underhood headlight harness. I do not have a complete harness to rebuild that.
IMG_20240106_214355285.jpg
Well maybe I have to take that back. I cannot find the Packard 56 90 degree terminal ends I will need for the headlights. I would need ten in total.
I will call YNZ. They do not list them on their website.
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I have found some straight versions of the headlight connectors. But I will need to confirm there is clearance in the headlight buckets for that.
Just to compare
Incandescent high
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Incandescent low
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LED high
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LED low.
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I don't think I like these LEDs. In person there is a noticable difference between high and low LED. But does not show up on camera.
I have years to decide which I want. So now these will be wrapped up and packed away.
LEDs are a good option only as a last resort. The light appears artificial and overly bright. Theres a warm feeling you get when looking at incandescent glow.
Well I took a chance and ordered a 1960 license plate light lense from McVeys. We will see if it fits my early build 1961. I must have gotten the last one. It did not say backorder when I submitted my order.
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Looking at what all parts I will need to restore that headlight harness
I need two metal connector body clips.
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I have only found one $370 kit that says it has 6 Packard 56 clips. But these clips are straight. The originals are 90 degree.
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Looking through my kits o have found two clips close to the right size. They are both straight and will need some modification to work. But I am not spending $370 on a kit in hopes that the six clips it has will work.
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Just for fun I dug out a pair of headlights to use as tests as I rebuild the wire harness.
I powered them up. That parking light is brighter then these bulbs.
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I didn't get lucky. I was removing the wipers from my parts car and really damaging the chrome nuts. Found a set on eBay for Chevy and thought they could not possibly be different. They are different.
Just slightly smaller.
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Good news. McVeys 1960 license plate light lense fits the 1961 light.
Unfortunately one lense is embossed L5-60 and L5-61. And the 1961 has some ribbing and an anti rotation feature.
But it fits right up and holes and gasket surface align.
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It would have been nice if these lenses had come with a set of gaskets. But I cannot be greedy.
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Well the McVeys rear ashtrays fit but they are a little different. The cigarette put outer(whatever the real name is) is in a different position. And the original was a brighter chrome. The new looks more light stamped stainless steel.
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I suppose that thing is called the Extinguisher.
Bruce. >:D
Until this day I wondered why this thing is there now it even has a name ;)
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 10, 2024, 08:33:34 PMI suppose that thing is called the Extinguisher.
Bruce. >:D
I've heard it referred to as the snuffer, but that might just be an old mid-Atlantic colloquialism.
The 90 degree terminals for the headlights are called flag terminals.
YNZ did have them. Just not listed on their website. I ordered 10.
Screenshot_20240111-143651.png
Quote from: Clewisiii on January 11, 2024, 02:39:32 PMThe 90 degree terminals for the headlights are called flag terminals.
YNZ did have them. Just not listed on their website. I ordered 10.
Screenshot_20240111-143651.png
Quote from: Clewisiii on January 11, 2024, 02:39:32 PMThe 90 degree terminals for the headlights are called flag terminals.
YNZ did have them. Just not listed on their website. I ordered 10.
Screenshot_20240111-143651.png
Cancel that. They only had type 56. The lights are type 59.
Since the forward headlight harness is mostly straight. I decided the easiest way to lay out my wiring to recreate the harness is to tape it to a skinny board.
There are a couple of more colors I have ordered. And I need to make a couple of taped inline splices so I ordered some splice sleeves for those.
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Here is a link for new T3 headlamps if you wanted to get some correct, bright lamps.
https://www.lectriclimited.com/catalog/product/view/id/87556/s/sealed-beam-set/category/732/
While I wait for wiring supplies to arrive, more cleaning of little details.
I think I have another set of these lock knobs. One of this sets has pits I do not like. I don't want to bother trying to rechrome these.
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The lock knobs are available as NOS or repro in a few places.
Quote from: Cadillac Jack 82 on January 12, 2024, 08:46:29 PMThe lock knobs are available as NOS or repro in a few places.
I have bought some. Anc they were wrong.
Just a little curiosity I noticed.
The headlight on driver side wires splice directly into the main wire. IMG_20240113_164458282~2.jpg
But the wires on the passenger side jump off of the flag connectors in the connector housing.
IMG_20240113_164443462~2.jpg
Fitting two wires in the flag connector is a little tight. I wonder why they chose to do it differently from one sided to the other.
The modified clip works. I just hope rotating this 90degrees isn't a problem.
I am still waiting on the purple wire that goes into this socket. Even though it is for fog lights and I do not have fog lights.
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Are you referring to the Black Ground wire as the "main" wire?
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 13, 2024, 07:19:51 PMAre you referring to the Black Ground wire as the "main" wire?
Bruce. >:D
I ment main as in wire bundle. The main trunk of wires.
Ah ha. The Loom.
I would think that the passenger side would have no reason to go back into the loom after leaving the lights as it is just the end of the Ground Wire.
Another way of putting it is that the Passenger Side is closest to the Battery Ground, and the ground wire to the Drivers Side is put into the loom to simply tidy it up. As against putting individual grounding tails from each light to ground. More chance of getting bad grounds from additional screws.
Bruce. >:D
I got the multi wire splices done. The original had adhesive fabric tape over these splices then friction tape over that. I now have my friction tape. I ordered the fabric tape today. IMG_20240115_181523416.jpg
Dang. I received more wires from YNZ today but I forgot to order baby blue. The last color I need for the headlight harness. IMG_20240115_210624973.jpg
I just need that light blue wire. Then I can transfer this bulk connector.
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I have two headlight connectors I need to make up. I had to modify T59 straight connectors to use as flag connectors. Not the best. I have tried to solder all these after crimping. But I am short one connector. I ordered a bunch of European H4 flag connectors. I am told they will also fit T3 bulbs. We will see. I may need to cut off and redo the headlight connectors.
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What I've been doing is uncrimping the good ones from any old harness and re-crimping them onto the new wires, then soldering them to be sure. It's tedious, but it works.
I've tried to get new Packard 59 terminals, both the straight and the 90° ones, but like you I was only able to find the straight ones.
Rick
Quote from: Cadman-iac on January 15, 2024, 10:02:24 PMWhat I've been doing is uncrimping the good ones from any old harness and re-crimping them onto the new wires, then soldering them to be sure. It's tedious, but it works.
I've tried to get new Packard 59 terminals, both the straight and the 90° ones, but like you I was only able to find the straight ones.
Rick
I tried. I took a blow torch to the old terminals but was not able to unsolder them. It must have been some type of brazing.
Well the side that is hooked up works.
Regular
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High Beam
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Quote from: Clewisiii on January 15, 2024, 10:18:08 PMI tried. I took a blow torch to the old terminals but was not able to unsolder them. It must have been some type of brazing.
I've just been prying the crimped tabs off the wires, usually they were not soldered. But if they are, when you heat it to melt the solder, use an air nozzle to spray it off the terminal as you are heating it. The amount of solder they used is minute, so it's not going to just drip or run off on its own.
Then you can pry it loose from the wire.
It's tricky, as these weren't meant to be reused, but patience and perseverance will yield results.
Good luck.
Rick
I would be using shrink wrap over the joints vs. a bunch of tapes. Just my preference.
Well the friction tape I bought is actually the fabric tape that was used over the splice joints. It feels like fabric embedded with tar. So I am comfortable there.
I still need the non adhesive tape to wrap the harness in. And to install the headlight plugs on one side and main block.
I have to remove and sonic clean that block. The retainer bracket is just coated so I will just blast a d paint that.
$400 would have been to much for this harness. But I will pay $400 for the Underhood portion. It is twice the content so more worth it.
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I use that fabric tape to protect the spliced areas, then everything gets wrapped with the harness tape.
The factory used the fabric tape and it kept the splices safe from contact for all these years, so I figured it's worth using again.
Rick
I contacted Warren Gear. He said he was glade I called because he forgot to call me. The rear end is good to go. $100. Now I just need to go down and pick it up.
It looked to good to paint. Since it gets bolted to the radiator core support I decided to leave it yellow.
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Quick little rebuild on the trunk release and open indicator light harness.
I want to polish this release switch more. And I need to order this style of lamp base. They are available. Honestly I am sure the wires were fine. But the connectors were brittle, and lots of corrosion on the terminals.
Honestly inside of that light socket I could not even see the ground side of the socket since it was corroded and dirty.
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My rear end gear is done. I picked it up today. But it is cold and I am not doing anything with it today so it will sit in my car until I am home from work tomorrow.
My exhaust hangers from Grant in a New Zealand have landed in Los Angeles. So hopefully I will have them next week.
I will be able to fit the exhaust to final position.
Install the rear end, springs, and start working on rear brakes.
I really want to get the rear back on wheels.
I currently cannot push the frame around due to rear end, and the back of the inner fenders are supported by 4x4 blocks. I need to build a bracket to allow those to be supported by the frame until the body can be installed.
I did my oil change to switch out the Cam breakin oil with the next round of break in oil for the first 500 miles.
I have not switched out water for coolant yet. But no leaks.
And I need to buy new shocks. I have a set of Gabriel Classics gas charged shocks. But I think I want to switch those out for hydrologic shocks from Shocks 2 Springs.
I am going to continue with instrument panel work soon. Radio restoration and some new chrome.
I am so very grateful that there is relatively little left that I need to purchase. Now there is still plenty that i need to pay to restore. But actually buying components, there is little left that I need.
Well I am now far enough along that I can put the engine and frame away, and transition to bodywork.
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I rearranged the shop layout. I will align the body to my spray booth and build a plastic tent around the body.
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I have a few sports of welding to do on the body.
Weld up old seatbelt holes. They were in the wrong place.
One fender skirt bracket had a broken weld.
And a couple of body brackets below the firewall could use some work.
I am starting with the seatbelt holes. They just drove an awl or a screwdriver through the floor.
I don't know why I was hammering them flat. I just drilled them out and cut plugs.
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Test fitting my fuel lines.
Can anyone give me pointers on how the lines rout and hang at the ends.
The last clamp to body is just forward of the axle. The the lines would go over the axle to the fuel tank.
Well the axle moves and I am worried about how to rout the lines there.
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Then at the front the lines need to enter the engine bay from the inside of the frame. There are clamps on the front of the engine. But does anyone have images on how the lines route to the side or under the engine.
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This is the only image I can find. This is in the manual, there are no images in the parts book.
This manual image I believe is not accurate just representative.
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I contacted Inline Tube and brought my rear E Brake cables to them. They told me they could not recreate them.
So I asked if I restored the parts could they put in a new Cable. They said maybe.
So I disassembled everything and did the best I could to restore them. I even put in other cables that I had. I just need a barrel put on one end.
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I sure am happy to see the pictures restored to this amazing and detailed build. I had something similar happen years ago restoring a 1968 IH Scout and everything was lost to history...
I like being able to see both sides of my welds. Looking from this side I can see a couple of pin holes on one of the plugs I will need to hit again.
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Well the seatbelt holes are welded up.
Next is the loose fender skirt bracket.
There are several coats or primer and paint. So I may need to sandblast this area before I can weld it.
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I love my rotisserie. But I do not want to store it after I am done. Even apart it takes up a lot of room.
But in the 8 years my body has been on this rack it has been more then worth it.
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Better image of the bracket that needs to be welded. This is a big gap. I wonder if the bracket was welded in the wrong place originally. It does seem to be turned a little differently than the other.
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Can now confirm the fender skirt brackets were originally yellow plated.
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But now I have a concern. The front bracket bolts into the rocker. I assumed there was a weld nut in there. No there is a threaded backer plate that moves. If I finish unbolting this bracket the plate will fall into the rocker.
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There is a small access hole inside the body. But I cannot get my hand in there and you cannot actually see the backer plate from the angle. So now I must decide if I am going to risk it and take off this bracket.
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Ok I am working in my trim shop today.
A while ago I had bought some new marshall unit springs to replace some of the seat springs. The problem is these springs are to stiff. Hard to get the seat to really shape the way I want it.
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So like I did for my front seat. I will try to restore as many of the original springs that I can. I can then see the pockets looser to get the cushion to plump up a bit.
So last time I sandblasted, painted, and sewed them up. I would like to get this done soon so I can get rid of that smell. And mouse droppings that are still falling around.
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Does anyone still make the burlap material?
Quote from: Cadillac Jack 82 on February 15, 2024, 09:00:38 PMDoes anyone still make the burlap material?
Yes, but I won't use burlap. It collects oders and can rot to easily. I will see with a cotton or muslin material. That is what the cushion springs had.
Laying out and cutting the Ram board for a temporary spray booth floor. It will be 12.5x 24 ft. I haven't decided if I will center it in the room. Or off to one side.
If I go off to the side I can fit the frame along side it and keep a fair amount of room by my tool box and work bench.
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If I'm understanding well, you intend to make a spray "room". The width will be 12.5 ft. Too narrow in my opinion. You need at least a good 1 meter on each side to be able to spray the paint with some liberty movement. Could be that I'm wrong...
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on February 17, 2024, 06:36:37 AMIf I'm understanding well, you intend to make a spray "room". The width will be 12.5 ft. Too narrow in my opinion. You need at least a good 1 meter on each side to be able to spray the paint with some liberty movement. Could be that I'm wrong...
I am only sanding and spraying primer. The only body color will be on firewall. Which will have 6ft of room. I do not want to sand in my nice new clean shop.
Quote from: Clewisiii on February 17, 2024, 06:39:28 AMI am only sanding and spraying primer. The only body color will be on firewall. Which will have 6ft of room. I do not want to sand in my nice new clean shop.
Ah! I'm understanding better. for that job, your dimensions are OK. Thanks for the explanation!
By the way, I had the same approach with my '56 de Ville and '56 Biarritz: I let the color coat to the professionals.
Well the floor is down. And I moved the frame along side. Now I need to buy lumber to build the room. I was going to go 24 on center then realized all this is holding is plastic. I may do 36 on center.
The body is still on wheels do j can slide it side to side within the booth if I need to.
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Carl- Are you still looking for pics about fuel line mounts? If so I can send you some shots of my car, although I don't have a/c, so can't help w/return line.
Quote from: David Greenburg on February 18, 2024, 10:17:48 PMCarl- Are you still looking for pics about fuel line mounts? If so I can send you some shots of my car, although I don't have a/c, so can't help w/return line.
thanks. Just the over the rear end and under along the motor are what I need.
Okay. I'll try and get some shots this afternoon. Re-installing carpet today, so I'll already be down at floor level.
Well I have most the lumber I will need for my spray booth. I will build it through the weekend then get some plastic to cover it and one wall of cheap air filters. IMG_20240220_172523027.jpg
A building in a building. One more day to frame end walls and wrap it. This is mostly to prevent sanding dust while working through primer layers. I am only painting finish coat on the firewall.
After I finish the bottom I will lower this a foot on the rotisserie.
I am going to order 16 cheap 4ft LED lights to put inside next week.
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I ran out of plastic. Just need one more small roll. Lights next week after payday. I hope to have this body ready to go back on the frame by fall.
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Starting lights. I still want at least 4 overhead lights.
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There were three Michigan chrome shops that I have looked at over the years. But now that I am ready to get quotes and send out some interior chrome pieces I find that they are all closed.
So I need to branch out to more locations to find a shop I can work with over a few years. And one that I am comfortable with shipping out my 61 Fleetwood one year/model chrome to. If they go under while they have my parts I know they will be lost.
I have looked at Reds Parts attic in the past. I had some bumpers done in California. Which was a good price even with shipping due to the competition out there.
But if anyone's of others in Michigan, Ohio, or Indiana let me know.
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Well I wasted a little money and bought one of these. I wanted to save for chrome. But you have to buy these when you find these.
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Great find!
Here are the 5 areas of Body repair I would like to do before begining to sand and paint the firewall. These are all in hidden areas. But I still do not want them to look like a hack job.
Passenger Cowl.
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Passenger lower fender attachment area.
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Driver lower Fender attachment area
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Driver rear fender skirt opening
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Driver rear quarter behind bumper.
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The amount of care and love thats going into this car is amazing. Well done!
I need to get a small pneumatic metal saw. My rotary cut off saw can't fit into tight spots.
This is the driver lower that looked like the best spot initially. But enough rust in there that I am happy I cut it open.
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I need to pick up some more steel for the patch panels.
I have two radios. And I have identified a man to rebuild my radio. But he does not do cosmetic work.
So I am taking apart one of my radios to restore the casing and some components. I will provide him with my original plus all the parts from the second and restored case.
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This is the one that was on the right in the pictures above.
I got as much cosmetically cleaned up as I can. The rest will have to wait until fresh chrome for the buttons and face.
I am dropping this off at the Rebuilder in a couple of hours.
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Carl, the pictures from your posts 1084 to 1092 are gone. You'll have to reload them by clicking "more". Delete the existing "pictures" from the message and reload them, if you still have them.
I'm wondering what model year Cadillac division went from two radio components, viz: tuner in dash and amplifier hidden under dash on the passenger side, to an integrated solid state single in dash unit. My beloved 67 Eldorado had F.M. stereo that featured an annoying audible mono/stereo relay that would click when the signal was weak. And then the introduction of the BOSE system in the Allante with four amplifiers and a bunch of related failure prone complexities.
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on March 17, 2024, 04:22:02 AMCarl, the pictures from your posts 1084 to 1092 are gone. You'll have to reload them by clicking "more". Delete the existing "pictures" from the message and reload them, if you still have them.
I am not going to do that. I understand they are gone. And that is unfortunate.
I found a chrome shop in Michigan still open. All the rest I have been recommended to have closed. I talked with this guy on the phone today. He said there is one other shop he knows of. I told him if it is micro platers they do not do potmetal.
I am going to meet with this guy on Saturday. He is actually open on Saturday.
He said he currently has a 24 week lead time. A-W Custom Chrome
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I was polishing one of the dash pieces last night. And I don't think I will actually plate this part. It cleaned up good enough, and even though it is high visibility on the dash not a lot of it is actually seen.
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Going through all my interior chrome and headlight buckets.
Sorting my parts and selecting the best to rechrome from the ones that I have extra of.
Some parts I will not rechromed. So sorting those out.
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Finally getting to take apart the Fleetwood interior door pulls. The red lenses are soldered in place. I need to work those out. I am also trying to find another set because I am missing some red lenses.
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I will lay out what I have and ask him how far $5000 will get me. I will need to plan for the future for the rest. The other big set is all the door window frames. Those will all need to be redone.
I need to take the face and chrome ring off my clock. Can somebody talk me through that. IMG_20240319_204656951.jpg
The stuff that I do not think is worth rechroming.
I think I can buy repops for
Mirror knob
Window switch buttons
I think I have seen door locks
I have seen sun visor brackets but some of the listings say they are to long for 61. But I think these are impossible to rechrome.
I think I will live with the window switch housings.
I can buy new seat switch button assembly. But I will need to think about the seat switch housing.
The headlight knob and radio knobs are in good shape. I may just polish those.
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I believe I have been told that the steering wheel restorer who recasts the wheels can also restore the shifter stalks. I hope he can because I do not know how to get these part. IMG_20240319_211344366.jpg
Chrome polish can go a long way to making most of these parts acceptable. I don't use 0000 steel wool as it does scratch in my opinion. Those sun visor, & switch parts after a good clean/polish should be fine.
The Fleetwood door pulls did clean up very nice. But there is one that is very rough on the top. But if I rechrome this one I would need to do them all.
I will have to get a quote for them to be rechromed and use that to determine if I am willing to pay for it.
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I ordered retainer locks to replace on these window switches.
These are rusted bent and broken. I won't replate the switches. But I will disassemble to clean and polish them all.
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Quote from: Clewisiii on March 20, 2024, 08:58:29 PMI ordered retainer locks to replace on these window switches.
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Where did you find them?
Quote from: 6262 on March 21, 2024, 03:21:51 PMWhere did you find them?
There are two types. One with locks to the housing. One with locks to the wire connector. I bought from Fusick and Classic industries. I whipped one out of inventory
These are what I care the most about rechroming. But these are assemblies with 3-4 parts each and a blend of bright and brush chrome.
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The parts are riveted together. But I am going to talk to the platers before I drill out the rivets.
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I thought the pull handles were riveted. But then I realized it was just a stud in the casting. I may solder these pins when reassembly.
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So long as the pot metal isnt pitted badly they should be okay. Problem is heat with 60 yo pot metal when they get dipped. If you can polish them as is I'd keep em as is. Just my .02
Quote from: Clewisiii on March 19, 2024, 08:48:09 PMI need to take the face and chrome ring off my clock. Can somebody talk me through that. IMG_20240319_204656951.jpg
Theyre the same for 61 to 64. Theres a NOS lens or two on Ebay now. I can give you a 63 dated one when I get my 64 one rebuilt. Its clean just needs service.
I had to push off my visit to the chrome shop this Saturday. I had a last minute issue at University of Michigan to attend.
I am going to have to call the shop this week to see if they will be open this Saturday during Easter Weekend.
I have packaged up most of the parts that I want to review with them. Then I spent about 2 hours on Sunday organizing car and part photos that I have been dumping on my laptop. If I ever sell my car I will give the new owner all these photos to go along with it.
I tried cleaning up what looked like stained clock arms. But looks like this is just the way they were made. Cleaning and q tips did nothing.
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Its probably from years of smoking in the car. They should be bright white.
I keep going back and forth on the polishing. Looks good then the residue on my fingers makes it look dirty again. I need to bring in some fresh polishing towels.
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Looks like the most important thing is polishing the rocker rod. Stops the buttons from hanging up.
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I bought all the long retainers they had. I will need to order 7 more when they get a new supply.
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The closest paint colors for the dash I could find.
I noticed that there was a difference between my parts car and my Fleetwood.
My Fleetwood has a bronze tint and is closer to the right. But a little darker.
My parts car is closer to the left but a little lighter and more metallic
I think I like both. But I think the left would look better in car.
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Which do you like with the chrome around it. Like this I think I like the lighter better.
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The lighter one looks closer to whats in my friends 61. Its a silvery gray.
It is hard to tell, but the lighter one does look better to me. But, it is not my car.
I have tossed in the two pictures for comparison. I am referring to the woodgrain applique, light and dark. The one of the right side is standard 1972, and the one of the dash cluster is 1971
I had to use the 1971 darker one as the 1972 one that I had was butchered to be useless.
I like the lighter colour. To me it is classier.
Bruce. >:D
Well I have all the chrome that I have identified that I want to be restored in the trunk of my car. All but window frames that is.
I am meeting the guy at the chrome shop tomorrow at 6am. After we start talking of prices I may pull more parts and say don't worry about it.
He said he currently has a 22 week lead time. I don't know if that would be for all that I decide to leave with him. Or if we will do this in batches.
On the one hand I don't like leaving parts that long if they are just going to sit on his shelf for 18 weeks. But on the other if he can work them in here or there I don't want to drive back and forth bringing parts to him. I want my parts there and ready for any time he finds. But it is so hard to find a replacement for any parts if he loose them, goes under like the others, or god forbid passes away in the next half year.
I am overthinking. Thanks for being my therapists.
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Well I left 43 parts. $5200
I will do the rest in two more batches.
Headlight, tail light, door armrest switch surrounds. About another $5000
Then window frames. No price on those yet.
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I am trying to think through all the parts that I have not accounted for yet to chrome or not.
The covers over turn signal indicators will need to be pulled out. The turn knobs for the air vents. The two vertical dividers between the rear bumper aluminum.
Everything else I have made a determination to chrome or not and have an estimated price.
Even though all it is is spending money. Getting to and past this step feels relieving.
He told me $160 to rechrome the seat switch housing. We are both worried about the lettering.
I can buy new switch button assembly for $45. Mine is broken anyway. I need to order more retainers. But they are currently on back order. I will wait and order as a group so I get free shipping.
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My reinforced rubber arrived to remake the rubber loops that retain the ebrake cables.
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I made four to have spares.
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The only annoying thing the new rubber has two reinforced layers. The old had more.
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I still need to have the barrel ends installed to my ebrake cables.
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You know what is sad but also comforting.
Since I am a fool spending all this money to restore a four door Fleetwood. If I tried to sell the car when done, I would probably get the same amount of money, or more, parting the car out rather then selling it whole.
I would still loose tens of thousands either way. But I am not in a position that the car has to be completed to be valuable. Where others strip a car, maybe get engine running, then do bodywork to primer, get in trouble and try to sell the car for what they think the value they put into it is. They can only expect a little over scrap or parts value then.
But since I focused on all the parts and details first. The parts are holding my value even if the body never gets completed. The value in two 61 fenders and two 61 fenders skits still protect my "investment" along with all the other boxes up parts I have done and ready.
Rest assured, there is nothing wrong with any 4 door Sedan.
They are convenient, stylish, and very comfortable.
Bruce. >:D
PS. Coupes look nice, and sporty, but have you ever tried to get in and clean the inside of the rear window. Muscle Cramp comes to mind.
Again its always a pleasure seeing these posts. Your dedication to making it perfect are amazing.
Random little question. I can see evidence that the lettering in the seat switch was painted.
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But no evidence that the lock buttons were painted. Can you confirm.
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The 64 has white lettering on the door locks and flat black paint on the door switches.
"Since I am a fool spending all this money to restore a four door Fleetwood. If I tried to sell the car when done, I would probably get the same amount of money, or more, parting the car out rather then selling it whole."
Carl,
Given the fact that there are over 3100 Billionaires in the world, you'll be in the unique position to "name your price" simply for the scarcity value of your creation. When you decide to sell it, find yourself a buyers' agent who has establish entre to potential very deep pocket collectors. I suspect market value will prove to be entirely irrelevant if you find the right buyer. James
It has only been a week. But I do not feel confident that these backordered clips will be restocked soon. I don't assume many people restore them. Screenshot_20240404-203942.jpg
I took apart my wiper switch to clean and repaint it.
I took this apart and reassembled once before. But this time it sprung apart so it might take me time to figure out how to reassemble it.
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I believe this is the proper stack. IMG_20240404_211028021.jpg
Paint stripper to clean up the face.
Sonic cleaner for a while to remove residue
Acetone wipe to prep.
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Taped off and painted but for lettering. I have to decide how long I want to wait before I remove the paint. And how exactly I will remove paint from letter tips.
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I don't like the SEM trim black for this job. The paint pulls away from edges while drying. I have painted more coats then I am comfortable with.
I will let it dry then test my ability to remove the paint from the letters. If I am happy enough I will leave it. If not I will strip and repaint with Krylon Industrial Semi Flat.
Ya I don't really like the paint. But it does look good. IMG_20240406_141428893.jpg
It is above the Wash and below the push button that did not fill with paint. This was after 5 coats.
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wood tooth picks work good to remove paint in tight areas and also to touch up when you dip them in paint.
It is touched up reassembled and I am happy.
I really wanted to push it back into the repainted dash end piece. But I decided that was premature.
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My replacement seat switch internals arrived today. Along with the rest of my switch retainers.
I still need to have the outer housing rechromed. It is to visible to leave it with the pits.
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@Clewisiii Where did you find this item?
Quote from: Clewisiii on April 15, 2024, 05:51:14 PMMy replacement seat switch internals arrived today. Along with the rest of my switch retainers.
I still need to have the outer housing rechromed. It is to visible to leave it with the pits.
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Classic industries $45
Still mostly just setting aside cash for chrome.
But I did pick up a new pneumatic saw for bodywork. I need to get back to working on the body repair so I can paint that firewall.
A little more clean up and finesse. And this front corner patch can be welded back in place.
This is in a hidden area. But I did not want to o leave it the way it was.
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I am 95% positive that Schwinds does not have these.
I asked a year ago and in email they said they order after order. But their website says in stock.
They have been tormenting me with their listing showing up every time I try to search.
So I ordered a set so that they will realize their mistake and drop the listing like my order to summit racing, and opgi before them.
But hey if there is a 5% chance they find they have a leftover set I will be happy.
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Well at least Schwinds refunded me first thing Monday Morning.
It took Summit six weeks to realize they could not get it. And that was with me reaching out and questioning them twice in advance.
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I drove to a swap meet in Fowlerville today. Waste of a trip. Nothing I wanted.
So to make up for it I ordered a new set of outside door handles for my car.
And a bonus in the mail today came a battery tray stamped to the original pattern. I traded a guy in Estonia for some window trim parts from my parts car.
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Through back remembering how sketchy I was lifting this body off the frame. I used every piece of scrap board I had around the shop to get it high enough to push the frame out from under.
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An interesting way of holding the body up and clear.
I trust the other lifting points were a little bit more stable. ;) ;)
Bruce. >:D
Not really a stable arrangement! I did something similar to push the frame under the body. Imagine I had to go under the body to add pieces of wood on the jack as the assembly was near a wall...To have a lower frame, I removed the rear wheels.
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When it is time to put the body back on the frame. I am going to go to my Fraternity House (which is only a 5 minute drive from my house) and offer them $400-500 to have about ten guys stop by my house to carry and set the body on the frame.
I could use help like that every now and then. Problem is no school close enough. Good idea though.
Rick
I have been trying to remember how long it has been since I dropped off my last batch of chrome. It is a 24-28 week lead time and checking today it has only been 6 weeks. After next week I will have all the cash set aside to pay for this first batch. So at 12 weeks I may drop off my second batch just so that I can get it on the wait list and not start over after the first 28 weeks.
Second batch will be window frames and maybe cowl. The cowl needs to be painted with the body, and the window frames are the first bit of chrome that needs to be installed.
Last batch will be headlight/tail lights and door switch plates. They all install last so waiting on them will not hold anything up.
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Since I could find nothing I wanted at the last Swap Meet. I bought myself a set of reproduction door handles. I will need to trim the rods on two of them for the back doors.
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Now another decision I need to make. Caddy Daddy has top of fender turn indicator covers as reproductions for $125 a piece. The chrome shop told me their minimum price for a part is about $75. So I may be borderline cheaper to buy new then have mine rechromed.
I ordered this dashpot. It was the cheapest I could find at $100.
I don't know if these are rebuild able. I would not mind a spare but all the rest are listed at over $300. Screenshot_20240512-200114.jpg
I need to start buying all the rubber seals for my car.
I think the whole package will be $2500-3000.
The rear quarter window seals are the biggest punch for such small parts.
It would be nice if one of the sellers had done all the work for me putting together a complete package per body type. But when it comes to all the little bumpers, lock pillar seals, various other component seals. They are never included in a package of just window and door seals.
Clayton at Rubber the Right Way has put together kits for earlier years, like 1955. He may have one for 61.
866 789-7879. Tell him I referred you, there is a chance he will remember me.
Service part looks a little different then the original. But it should fit fine.
I would like to find another as a spare someday. But I am not spending $300.
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Well that is everything I can find in the rubber the right way catalog except for,
Belt line fuzzy
Window felt
Window sash
Door and hood bumpers
Door drain flaps
So $2800 so far. Probably another $3-500 for the rest. I wonder if I can call a negotiate a package deal.
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Rubber the Right Way has 10 to 15 percent off sales a few times a year and I would bet the 4th of July would be a time for the next one. I get emails when they happen and will forward to you the next time it shows up.
Are R.T.R.W and Steele Rubber products selling the same products?
From same manufacturer?
/ Johan
Mostly, yes. R.T.R.W is cheaper than Steele for the same products...
Blurry picture from 9 years ago.
My Eastwood material order. The body was looking pretty good at the time until the racoon urine destroyed a bunch of my work. After years of remodeling my shop to prevent that issue in the future the body work from that time has not aged well. So I will be resanding everything. But the time is coming soon.
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I bought a lot of parts off of eBay from The Mother Brain. Haven't heard from him since the old 61-62 group.
I really wanted the oil breather and the door strikers. That made the price worth it to me. I can use the mirror adjuster. But I already bought a new mirror adjuster. I don't need the rearview mirror. It is not correct anyway. I already have a full set of interior handles, and mine are brush chrome, so these bright chrome are unneeded.
I was hopeful for the sun visor brackets. But they are incorrect. Everyone sells them as 61 with a note saying they are a half inch longer. Well that makes them not work.
But I am still happy.
I thought I had an oil breather sticker. Two actually. But I cannot find them.
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I wonder if I would be brave enough to do a vintage car Cannonball run after my car is complete.
Cadillac sellers want $11 for one of these oil breather decals.
Bobs Autobilia Buick seller wants $3. But even buying four does not meet minimum order price.
I will need to look through the site to see if there is other things I can use.
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Water transfer decals are superior to the sticker type.
So playing around on RTRW and now i have a $2700 shopping cart there. And today playing on Caddy Daddy I end up with a $2000 shopping cart.
Buying 7 of these from the Buick seller was the same price as two from the Cadillac sellers. I needed two. So at the same price I have spares.
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Not perfect. But I found someone with a 62 Fleetwood parts car. I was able to buy these from him before he sold the car for scrap metal.
I now have a pair and spare for restoration.
In Google searches I found a couple of places that said they restore emblems. But they were specific with the types they would restore.
If you know of anyone who can restore these please let me know.
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I'd opt to try and restore as is. They look clean enough and some chrome paint behind the lettering will make it pop again. May not be museum perfect but it'll look nice.
Have you talked to King of Trim in So. Cal? I know they restore some stuff like that.
I will reach out to them. I think they are who did the front grill restoration for Calvin Jonses 61.
Could also try foil behind it with a heat gun and do a pseudo vacuum chrome.
I have used a fellow in England who does the cloisonné work. This is a very special skill. The base has to be done first and chromed, then the colored glass is fired.
David Greenberg
Here are pictures to show my new fuel lines again. My car is AC so it is two lines.
Flipping my lines back and forth. I could not figure out which was front and back. It looks like the metal lines end over the axle and rubber lines continue back to the fuel sending unit.
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The lines then come out the front It looks like they end at back of motor. I need to figure out where to go from there.
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For some reason I have been thinking about when I will be charging the AC system.
I have 12 12 ounce cans of R12.
I need 6 to charge the car, so I will have 6 extra. But I keep wanting to buy more.
Recently a recovery machine has come up for sale local to me. Thinking about buying it, then upgrading to purchasing a large can of R12.
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I am going to do a few more removed background pictures.
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Finally feeling energetic to get some of my patches done.
5 in total before I can repaint the underbody and firewall. My goal is to have all that done and painted to put the body permanently back on the frame at the end of October.
Trying to make and curve these pieces using just a hammer and anvil.
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It is a hidden area behind the bumper. So just a little finesse and some spot welds on the flange and it is done.
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Someday I would like to get a tig welder. The mig works well. But I would like to get nicer welds on the sheet metal.
But that is three patch areas done today. Two to go, then remove and reinstall a fender skirt bracket.
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From the outside, this corner looked like it was in better condition.
On the inside it is worse then the first. I will need to determine how many of these layers I will dig into.
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My inner patch will be easy to make. A little harder to cut out the original.
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Not long now I am looking forward to primer and sanding.
My original dealer data book arrived today. I already had one of the reprints. But now I have 1961 dealer data book. 1961 color and upholstery data book. And 1961 aftermarket upholstery data book.
Dan LeBlanc told me there is a Fleetwood specific upholstery book. I have never seem it. But I would like to find one. I also need to hunt down an original parts book and maybe service manual.
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I think I am going to remove this forward panel to get better access to that box section below.
I also have a section of outer rocker patch panel. So I may cut some of that out to get more access in rear. 20240615_104049~2.jpg
My tubing straightener arrived today. I had one Nasty spot in my stainless steel brake line. Even with this tool the stainless is hard to reshape. But it is straight enough to lay flat on the frame now.
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The way to get it straight is to create a mandrel consisting of two pieces of steel, with a pair of grooves on either side that are the same diameter as the tubing, and then with strong clamps, squeeze the mandrels together. This will straighten the line, without deforming the tubing.
Bruce. >:D
So many of us have had problems with discontinued air filters recently.
The filter for 61 has been discontinued. I have been stopping by random small and independent parts stores trying to see if anyone has old stock.
Well surprisingly one popped up as available on Rock Auto. I bought it quick so now I have a future spare that I will not need for over a decade.
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I need to get some type of narrow extension for my new spot weld cutter to get into these upper locations.
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Well of course I have a nice long extension.
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But the spot weld cutter is not the normal 1/4 inch shank. So it does not work.
But I was able to pop the lower section loose. I am feeling more confident in what I need to do for the rest.
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And necessity is the mother of invention.
It fits a 7mm socket, that then allows me to use a 1/4 inch extension.
I will try it a little later. Had to switch to doing laundry.
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Success.
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Now I need to remove a section of the rocker panel.
I have a small piece of rocker patch panel to repair.
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Then I need to cut out at least the lower half of the box section. Then the back flat panel.
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I do need to find another small piece of steel to use to make at least two of these inner patches.
Cut open a little more. The inner rocker is solid behind this front corner.
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So I need to cut off the front section of inner, then a flat section behind it.
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I will work on this through next week.
Thanks for posting these pictures Carl, as they detail the serious RISK of purchasing an old car that appears to be structurally solid yet is highly compromised by hidden pockets of rust. James
A Chevy parts seller listed 61-62 hood crests on ebay for Chevy prices. For the price I bought one to see if I am happy with the quality. A few Cadillac sellers on Facebook tried to discredit tge purchase since they sell these for 2-3 times the price.
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In the end I am fine with it.
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I think I have purchased some stuff from the same guy. If he has what you want, the prices are pretty reasonable.
I found one NOS P1090 shock. First I have seen in 7 years. So I guess I am half way there. I beleive p1038s for the rear are easier to find.
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I talked to Karla Maxwell from Maxwell Enamels on having two of my Fleetwood fender crests restored. She said $300-500 each depending on needs.
I really wish the reproductions were still available. But I will do what I must to get some restored. If I can find better cores I will still purchase those for restoration.
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I finally got a longer chisel for my air hammer. I will be back to bodywork this weekend.
Another screenshot picture since the forum would not let me add a photo from my phone. I hate having to do a screenshot then crop out the phone screen border.
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I hit this area with my spot blaster. I will go another round with that. I am still trying to decide how to cut in around this rocker area.
I have two sheets of 18 gauge patch panel steel on order for next week. Hopefully I can do whatever I am going to do with this corner in the next three weeks.
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The only way is piece by piece, after you have removed all the rotten areas.
One of the troubles with opening up areas like this, one fonds that one has to go deeper and further to get that last piece replaced.
But, the biggest decision is how far do you go? And how far back down the sill does it extend.
Bruce. >:D
While at a car show today I ran into my glass guy. He is back from vacation and was there with his car. I want him to help me disassemble my windows and build an inventory of the liners and rollers I will need. He will eventually cut new glass.
The window frames will be part of the next batch of chrome. I have 2 months left in the schedule for my first batch. So next weekend I hope to meet with him to take these apart. I have the screws soaking in pb blaster for now.
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Interesting observation on the window bug etching.
The quarter window lettering reads right to left etched on the outside of the glass. The main windows read right to left through the glass. So etched in reverse.
I know about the LH glass etching is on the same side as the RH. This is the quarter window and side glass on the same side.
Apparently the Former owner of markngard will create the pattern and they will make etching stencils.
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These screws suck. I don't think half of them will survive.
The chrome parts will go off in my next batch. The non chrome will be sandblasted then zinc plated.
I still need to remove the riveted rollers. And my glass guy has jigs to remove the glass from the chrome without damaging the chrome. So that is planned for this weekend.
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Most of the time, those screws are difficult to remove. I had probably luck when I restored my 3 cars; even the screws from the Biarritz (a rust bucket) could be removed.
Well so far I got three screws to come out. I had to drill three, and there are two left that I am letting sit in penetrant longer. I am not going to reuse these screws, but it is a lot easier to not drill, to not risk messing up the screw holes.
One secret of removing these screws is to use brand new screw drivers, as worn ones are out of shape.
The second tip is to put coarse Valve Grinding Paste on the tip of the screw driver. The abrasiveness of the paste granules will dig into both the screw and the driver sides, creating a "gripping" surface.
But, be careful to wipe everything clean when finished, as you don't want the residue getting where it is not wanted.
Bruce. >:D
I stopped into the store front and office for Cars1nc. They are neer my work in metro Detroit. They mostly sell reproduction Chevy parts from the 50s to the late 60s. But there are a number of bits and pieces that cross over. I think they are the only people I can get rear parcel shelf formed drain hoses from.
But they also sell seat covers and door panel upholstery. I asked if they could remake my sun visors if I provide the material. I cannot sew the inside curve on my visor with my walking foot. He confirmed it is a special foot to do that curve with the binding. He said $120 a pair. At that price I might do two sets.
Sorry no pictures. But it was nice seeing presewn factory style seat covers and door panels on display. Makes me a little jealous that we don't have ready made materials like that for cadillac.
All the side glass is down to just glass in frames. I will try to meet with the glass guy on Saturday to remove the glass without damaging the frames. There is a little stainless here. But most of this will be going to the chrome shop.
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I still have to disassemble three quarter window frames. But I want to buy some glass run felt channels and test fit to what I have already taken apart before I remove more.
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Here are some screws I saved. I will need to find some replacements for these. These seem to be very soft metal. Of course I would prefer to replace with stainless.
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Some window rollers. Funny. The cleaner one on the left was seized. The ugly one on the right spun.
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It anyone knows how this stainless cover that spans the joint between the side windows comes off let my know.
I am trying to dig out the dry roared rubber seal to see if there are fasteners under it. 20240730_194401.jpg20240730_194410.jpg
I made myself a liar. I took apart the quarter windows. But I have not stripped all the stainless from tge window channels yet.
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So about that window lettering. The large side glass printed on the outside, and the quarter glass printed in reverse from the inside. Looking at the lettering differences in them, I think I determined they came from two different plants. For my restoration I think I only want to pay for one bug stencil to be made. So I will have to pick one.
A little worried or annoyed here.
The rubber the right way seal is just rubber. The original is a rubber in a metal track that I think is then riveted in the frames. There was a screw at the top of the track.
The track is rusty soft metal. I don't think I can save them. So I assume I will need to glue the rubber directly to the window frame.
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G'day Carl,
That is one of my pet peeves. But, in your case, I believe that the steel is attached to the frame, then the rubber is slid into the retaining grooves.
What I cannot stand is the suppliers that reproduce the rubbers, and make no attempt at including the steel backing or inserts that come with the original pieces. Most Factory rubbers have some sort of inlaid metal, al-be-it a length of "wobbly" steel running the length of the weatherstrip, as in the windscreen to door window weatherstrip in the '70's Eldorados. Or the top of the doors, front and rear for the same cars.
Bruce. >:D
So confirmed. There are three rivets in each track.
I can try to repair this one I damaged. Or I can take one off of my parts car it I want to reuse these secondary tracks.
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The frames are off the glass. These frames will be part of the next batch of chrome in September.
There is some stainless that will need to be polished. I think I have found two local guys who can mirror polish it for me.
My glass guy will cut the new glass. I have to contact Markngard to get some ezeye window bug stencles made.
The glass and roller tracks need to be zinc plated. I have someone local to do that.
Then it is an order to rubber the right way for seals.
These will then be packed away until after paint. But order of operations dictate that the side glass chrome will be the first chrome to be installed since they are buried in the door.
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OK. One of my lower window frames is rusted through.
I will figure out which door this is for and contact Jason Edge to see if he has one that will fit from the cars he has stripped.
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Looking at your parts, I marvel at the complicated pieces that had to be designed, and made so that simple operations of windows going up and down, and swivelling can be made to work so seamlessly.
As for the new rubber pieces, is there a way of removing the release agents that the makers use when moulding the pieces?
I always find that with the front to rear window divider pieces tend to slip out of the vertical grooves in the front of the rear glass frame, and need constant pushing back up.
The originals aren't glued in, but just hold their position.
Bruce. >:D
This is a great thread!
Imagine GM designing new models for every year with major differences in component design. Imagine the little details. It boggles the mind. The engineers must have worked 24-7.
And they made several models each year to boot---coupe, convertible, sedans, limo, ambulances and FW 60S. 1961 was a pivotal year.
My 61 CDV drives so different from my 60 Seville coupe (3 deuces) its astounding. Yes, the drivetrain was carried over but the 61 is lighter, more lithe in handling, faster and nimbler. Space age wonderment. A polished, refined muscle car in a nice suit.
The only way to 100% appreciate these design changes is to restore a car yourself. I wish I had the skills to do just that.
Finally disassembling my rear bumper. I needed to get it out of the way.
I already have new chrome. But I need to restore all the brackets, fasteners, and fuel door assembly.
I will also redo the light housings. The light wiring is funny. There is one plug across two lights per side. So in tge assembly plant they had to install one wire into a plug end after making the assembly.
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I spent $700 on a new phone just to get better pictures. I am happy with the detail able to be seen now. My old phone was washing them out.
Well these bolts came off much easier then the front bumper bolts. But I still think I will be breaking the smaller bolts.
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Look at that rot. Michigan is great isn't it.
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"My 61 CDV drives so different from my 60 Seville coupe (3 deuces) its astounding. Yes, the drivetrain was carried over but the 61 is lighter, more lithe in handling, faster and nimbler. Space age wonderment. A polished, refined muscle car in a nice suit."
John makes some compelling points. Had Carl selected a 60 model to resurrect, his entire ownership experience would be far different. My family had a 60 coupe and a 61 convertible... as John notes, they simply were ENTIRELY different.. John, it might be a fun topic to consider--- what model years were dramatically different from their predecessor. James
Quote from: James Landi on August 19, 2024, 07:15:39 AM"My 61 CDV drives so different from my 60 Seville coupe (3 deuces) its astounding. Yes, the drivetrain was carried over but the 61 is lighter, more lithe in handling, faster and nimbler. Space age wonderment. A polished, refined muscle car in a nice suit."
John makes some compelling points. Had Carl selected a 60 model to resurrect, his entire ownership experience would be far different. My family had a 60 coupe and a 61 convertible... as John notes, they simply were ENTIRELY different.. John, it might be a fun topic to consider--- what model years were dramatically different from their predecessor. James
At a somewhat local classic car consignment location, they had a dark blue 1960 Fleetwood for sale. They wanted more then what was reasonable because the car was used in a movie about Barry Gordy. Looking at that car it had some bad panel gaps. It must have been damaged and repaired poorly because the door rubbed on the edge of the fender chipping all the paint off. I looked at the rear roof line and being so low it was very uncomfortable for me to get in the door.
Question on ground path for headlights and taillights.
From the diagram I see the light housings are self grounding.
So I assume that goes Housing, chrome, brackets, frame. So I will need to sand some powder coating away at the frame and brackets.
The gas tank has a ground wire to the frame.
The top of fender turn indicators must cut through paint inside the fender. I assume the two bottom of fender screws to body must cut through paint. I think they have serated hexagonal washers under those bolts.
Any other thoughts. Am I accurate in my thinking?
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Well I came to the first one I must cut off. A carriage bolt that is spinning in its square hole.
I also need to get a can of MAP gas. The propane is just not getting hot enough.
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A while ago someone asked about a rubber bumper on the bumper. I thought they were talking about the threaded bu.per on the headlight support brackets. But maybe they meant this bumper on the rear bumper bracket.
I have never seen a bumper like this available before. I assume a flat stock rubber pad will work. Will just need to glue it in place.
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Three bolts left. Two I should be able to get off with more soaking and heat. The last will need to be cut.
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Well I ended up having to cut two bolts. Really this chrome is scrap. I don't see anyone wanting to attempt to restore it so I think this will be going to recycling.
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What I was really going for was all of these brackets and fasteners. The brackets will be going as is to the powder coater who will sandblast and coat.
The fasteners will soon get a dip in hydrochloric acid before sandblasting to see what can be saved.
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The aluminum. I have a set of aluminum trim that someone had chromed. Not exactly right. But they do look good. I will look into having these re anodized when I have my grill done.
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So if I had to restore another rear bumper, it would be the parts cars bumper. Much better condition.
I may take the two dividers off around the fuel door. They are in better shape then the ones I have now to restore. Screenshot_20240820_193333_Photos~2.jpg
When looking for parts on a "scrapped cars," it's sometimes sad to find one that's in better condition than the one I've selected to resurrect. The one pictured above clearly has a long story to tell, if it could communicate... likely someone's prize possession for decades, and then tossed when that someone could no longer care for it. James
It amazes me how some of these parts cars have nearly perfect chrome while the body looks like swiss cheese. The lenses on that 61 are also very clean too.
Through the fall, while I am saving my cash for chrome, I will need to work though restoring this bumper hardware. There are a lot of fine thread nuts and bolts and unique brackets that I just do not have spares for.
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I have restored a lot of hardware myself. And have relied on Jason Edge for all my unrestoreable and spares. Looking through my bagged parts to see what may be extra, I may have half the carriage bolts, but none of the rest.
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If there is room to place a nut cutter, it is good solution for getting stuck nuts off.
https://www.amazon.com/CRAFTSMAN-Universal-Nut-Splitter-CMMT14117/dp/B07R96Z6LY/ref=asc_df_B07R96Z6LY/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=692875362841&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6758444959300378191&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1019227&hvtargid=pla-2281435178098&psc=1&mcid=16b8ed42f1673edd96fa67d4cdca5383&hvocijid=6758444959300378191-B07R96Z6LY-&hvexpln=73&gad_source=1
So I am collecting brackets and parts for my next round of powdercoat and plating. Two things that annoy me. The body side fender skirt brackets have a hidden securing plate inside the rocker. I cannot get to this plate and it wiggles around enough that I lose the bolt holes. So I fished a copper wire through the holes to hold it in place. I will need blast over this and then spray it with a rust convertor.
The brackets will be plated.
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I tried to run a batch of bolts and hardware through a tumbler to save time I'm the sandblasted. 7 hours in the tumbler will still save me time at the blasting cabinet. 20240825_194415.jpg
Now I just need those Fleetwood crests. 20240827_191124~2.jpg
I spoke to the chrome shop today. My first batch should be ready mid October. I will try to drop off my second batch sooner so that I do not have to wait the full 28 weeks after mid October.
Success. Buy them when you find them.
I found someone on Facebook who was selling some Cadillac emblems. I saw the large Fleetwood logo and thought it might be the same size as the 61 trunk logo. Well it was not. He did not know what logos or years he had them for. But it was a little over an hour drive to him. So I bought some random things just to justify my drive. I spent $100 on these. Not a deal, but whatever.
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But I noticed he had two wiper escutcheon nuts. Mine were damaged removing them. And all of them I have bought since which say they fit are actually a hair to small. So I took a chance and bought these from him. They fit. They are actually the right size. I am so happy. Those new back four in this picture are wrong. But the front new pair from him are correct. Made the whole 2.5 hour round trip worth it. Now I need to find the proper tool to install them. I bought one. But of course it fits the smaller size.
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I took a big step today. I finally had the painter at my shop. The plan is for him to paint the firewall in my shop at the end of October. After that I will get the body back on the frame and drive able. Then mid to end of next year I can have it in his shop for the rest of the paint and bodywork.
Quote from: Clewisiii on August 30, 2024, 01:04:15 PMNow I need to find the proper tool to install them. I bought one. But of course it fits the smaller size.
Congratulations on your purchase.
I make my own tools for fitting escutcheon nuts. Just a simple tool from a piece of piping.
Bruce. >:D
Now that I am on the clock for Firewall paint in October, I am finally digging into that structure. I have cut out as much as I will. I need to sandblast more and spray in a rust encapsulator. 20240830_203516.jpg
These are the pieces I need to rebuild. I hope to get all but the rocker outer done this weekend. 20240830_203508.jpg
I need to sand a bunch of the body down again. This was last primed 7 years ago before my delay to rebuild my shop. 20240830_181545.jpg
Preparing the first patch panel now. This one was an easy bend. The next will be harder.
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Inner patch is in and I am happy enough with it. There are still two layers of patches to go. I middle layer tomorrow. It will be the hardest shape for me to make.
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That midpanel is going quicker then I thought. I need to reshape the nose a bit so the front outer support can be reinstalled. I still will not finish till tomorrow. 20240831_185318.jpg20240831_185156.jpg
There are two pieces here that I just need to weld backbin. I then need to cut a patch out of my rocker patch panel. Then one more patch that I actually need to make.
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I didn't expect these patches to go this quick. A little adjustment to this one and I can tack it into place. That will just leave a piece of the rocker outer. I can easily get that done between today and tomorrow, unless I actually want one relaxing day on the labor day weekend. Thankfully everything but the rocker outer is hidden. So I am giving myself some slack in my quality. But i still think I am doing pretty good for what it is.
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Carl, That's more than pretty good.
So because it was so cheap. I ordered a 4 Door RH rocker panel. 8 years ago when I fixed this rocker the first time they only had 2 Door versions. It did not properly line up so I used more filler then I wanted. I will use the patch I have now to fix it. But I will give the new rocker to the body shop and let them decide if they want to use it. It may be easier for the. To do a whole rocker with body on frame and fenders to align.
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Just for inspiration a throw back photo of where I started.
Looks good from 50 ft away and wet. But honestly barely better then a parts car.
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On the right is a bumper filler panel that I cleaned up a bit. On the left is a spray out panel I made to test a paint supplier 5 years ago. I did not give them a panel to match. I just told them 1961 Cadillac code 26 and they made this from formula.
I need to work with the painter to get paint mixed for the firewall in October. He suggested I buy all the paint up front to avoid the risk of color match issues next year.
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Gathering supplies to sand and clean up hard to reach areas like door jambs window openings and etc.
This is mostly to clean out 7 years of dust dirt and debry. Not prep sanding for paint yet.
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The goal is still to have the firewall painted at the end of October.
Finish the rear brakes.
Put oil in the differential.
Install shocks.
Put body on frame over New Years.
Buy gas tank.
Rebuild neutral safety switch.
Install steering column.
Install linkage from steering to Trans.
Have 1962 master booster rebuilt to install.
Install brake and throttle linkage.
Switch out radiator water for coolant.
Hopefully I can have that all done by summer so that I can have the car moving under its own power for paint in fall to winter.
Quote from: Clewisiii on September 02, 2024, 09:56:02 AMI need to work with the painter to get paint mixed for the firewall in October. He suggested I buy all the paint up front to avoid the risk of color match issues next year.
A very good idea, but don't wait too long between the Firewall painting and completing the rest of the painting. Just in case the makers, or the authorities, decide that the present paint should be outlawed. ;) ;)
Bruce. >:D
First time really hitting this rocker with sand paper since I applied filler to it 7 years ago.
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A couple of tack welds, then some hammering to finesse into shape. And my attempt of this rocker patch will be done.
This is just my weak attempt to weld to a panel that has already been distorted. If it works great. If not I have a complete new rocker coming that the body shop guy can install if he chooses to.
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Quote from: Clewisiii on August 30, 2024, 01:04:15 PMSuccess. Buy them when you find them.
I found someone on Facebook who was selling some Cadillac emblems. I saw the large Fleetwood logo and thought it might be the same size as the 61 trunk logo. Well it was not. He did not know what logos or years he had them for. But it was a little over an hour drive to him. So I bought some random things just to justify my drive. I spent $100 on these. Not a deal, but whatever.
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But I noticed he had two wiper escutcheon nuts. Mine were damaged removing them. And all of them I have bought since which say they fit are actually a hair to small. So I took a chance and bought these from him. They fit. They are actually the right size. I am so happy. Those new back four in this picture are wrong. But the front new pair from him are correct. Made the whole 2.5 hour round trip worth it. Now I need to find the proper tool to install them. I bought one. But of course it fits the smaller size.
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Carl,
I've been making my own tools for this type of nut. I'll use a good socket that's the right diameter on the outside so it matches the nut, then I grind off the top of the socket leaving a pair of tabs opposite each other that will engage the slots in the nuts.
I've got a collection of these now for various sizes. Wiper escutcheons, wiper switch retaining nuts, ignition switches, antenna bezels.
I can post a picture if you want tomorrow, I've already retired for the night.
Rick
Edit:
Here's a picture of the various tools I've made or bought. The 4 on the left are bought, the rest I made. I've had toggle switches that had that type of retainer nut, and finding a tool to work on it was impossible, so making it was the solution. Using bent-nose needlenose pliers just doesn't work most of the time and you end up scratching the paint or the switch bezel/nut, or worse, damaging it.
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Hope this helps.
Rick
The first time.
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Well the 4 door rocker panel is not of very good quality. I can work without it so it does not bother me. And it was cheap. But I am disappointed.
The center break line is not crisp at all.
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The old 2 door rocker I bought from the same supplier 9 years ago was much crisper and better fitting.
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I received the gear oil and coolant today.
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Before I switch out the water for coolant I want to get some new clamps and redo the lower radiator hose. The clamps I purchased are reproduction and they are a little weak. It took a while to get the lower hose sealed up.
So after getting the most recent price from the painter, I think I am just going to have to paint myself. I cannot justify that price. And it would take me 3 years to save for it anyway. After that time it will be even more.
The paint I liked the last time I did a test was Metalux. I am not sure if that is what I will use. It is not available locally anymore.
That dark metallic blue is beautiful.
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I totally understand your predicament.
But, the work that you are showing now, I think all of us will agree that when you take up the task, it will be perfect. Plus, you will have the satisfaction of saying that you did it all yourself.
Don't forget that painters were like all of us. Born with no talent, but learnt along the way.
Bruce. >:D
In sitting here thinking about my paint steps I was thinking about the underside of the hood. I do believe they were all semi gloss black no matter the body color. But decided to go ahead and pay for a printed copy of the authenticity manual to have handy in my shop.
Do you know the final color your car will be? If I'm right, dark blue metallic. If you intend to paint the car yourself, try first the underside of the trunk, the firewall, door jambs and so on. You will know then first hand if you can master the spray process.
I did that on two '56 cars I restored but I had never the intend to paint the exterior: no real place to perform the task (too much dusty environment) and no real experience for such a job. Solid paint are way more easy to apply; each pannel can be painted separately over a long period of time, wich is disastrous with metallic color.
My own experience is you get the best rockers from the local sheet metal guys providing them a profile template. You do that paint job just fine. Always posible to redo some areas if somethings not good enough.
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on September 07, 2024, 03:32:54 AMDo you know the final color your car will be? If I'm right, dark blue metallic. If you intend to paint the car yourself, try first the underside of the trunk, the firewall, door jambs and so on. You will know then first hand if you can master the spray process.
I did that on two '56 cars I restored but I had never the intend to paint the exterior: no real place to perform the task (too much dusty environment) and no real experience for such a job. Solid paint are way more easy to apply; each pannel can be painted separately over a long period of time, wich is disastrous with metallic color.
Yes the spray out sample I did is under that paint can in the picture.
Went out today to get a quote on the paint and clear coat materials cost. $3000.
I might not make my late October date for the firewall with this. But I will take it as it comes. 20240907_101233.jpg
Going through my little bits and half cans left over from work over the years.
I think these hardeners may need to go. They may not be compatible with new paint I will purchase and they are all partial cans. These fillers are old so I think they should be replaced.
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These primers and fillers have never been opened and should be good.
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I asked the store about this slick sand. I think this can is 7 years old. They said it is probably bad. But look at the hardener. If it turned amber it is bad. He had some that looked like weak coffee. Well my hardeners are still crystal clear. So may be fine. Always stored inside at 63 degrees.
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I welded in most of that front rocker patch. A little rough but not so bad.
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Using a magnetic straight edge the upper portion is flat.
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The lower portion is close. I have not welded the lower section yet. I need to pull it out a little in this lower corner. I really will not know how close it is until I can install a rocker.
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A through hole, pry tool, and clamp puts it pretty much where it needed to be. Will still need shaping and filler. But that will need to wait for fenders. Now I can install that last structure patch and move to the firewall.
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That last little piece is ready to weld in.
After I sand down the firewall. That and this area will be covered in epoxy primer.
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Done. There might be a spot or two. But this is the last welding on the body. Most all of this is hidden. But I think it is still good.
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Reminder of where it started.
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What was cut out.
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You have done good.
The secret is to do just what you are doing. Slow and steady, but get rid of all the rusted areas that you can.
Then before closing everything up, after welding, coat all the hidden areas with a rust preventative that is compatible with the paint that you are going to use.
I will send you some pictures of my Ranchero that was rust repaired, painted with a metalic paint, and cleared, all in the confines of my own garage. Can't post them here as it is not a Cadillac.
Bruce. >:D
After being on the rotisserie so long I just checked the bolts holding the body to rotisserie. They were all loose. Concerning loose. All tightend up and feeling better now. But I still hope that it will not be on the rotisserie much longer.
With how much I have done, I am still very much an uneducated novice with old cars.
I need to educate myself on carburetors and distributor points.
I think that will be important to know if I am ever on Long drives someday.
So when I was working with Grant in New Zealand to recreate a 61 Cadillac Exhaust hanger set we made one mistake. We assumed the rear most hanger was the same as the ones he made for 1959-60. Well since they are dual exhausts they have smaller pipes. So the clamp hole spacing is narrower.
Grant asked if I wanted him to make a new one. I told him no. I just reamed out the holes to make the clamp fit.
Well nearly a year later I received a package from New Zealand. He did make new ones and sent me one.
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Grant is a wizard and I'm very thankful for his work to the club. I've used him before on both my 57 and 59 Cadillacs.
Spot cleaning and checking up on last minute areas before painting the underbody and firewall.
I finally sandblasted the body side fender skirt brackets. I had never unbolted the actual brackets, so after I did that I needed to clean up rust on the body side brackets.
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I remembered I realized that one of these brackets was improperly welded from the factory. One side is nice and square. But the other side is crooked and separated from fender opening. I need to get out the spot weld cutter and remove and reposition this bracket.
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If you don't mind my asking, what kind of sandblaster do you use for in your shop, and what pressure do you run for it?
I've got an old unit that my dad used to use that looks like a big boiler tank and it'll take 150 psi and probably 2 bags of sand, which is waaaay too much for use inside.
I like the results from sandblasting, it saves a lot of work and elbow grease.
Rick
Quote from: Cadman-iac on September 09, 2024, 05:30:49 PMIf you don't mind my asking, what kind of sandblaster do you use for in your shop, and what pressure do you run for it?
I've got an old unit that my dad used to use that looks like a big boiler tank and it'll take 150 psi and probably 2 bags of sand, which is waaaay too much for use inside.
I like the results from sandblasting, it saves a lot of work and elbow grease.
Rick
Right now I am in an enclosed hut and just using a hand held spot blaster. Using the black diamond media. I have a 60 gallon air tank working at about 80 PSI.
In the past I was using a 60 pound pressure pot inside of my old garage. That was a mess and I do not recommend it.
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When I first did the whole car I laid down an area of plywood and curtained off a section of my yard. I would shovel up and filter the sand to reuse it. I went through 300 pounds of sand and had to rent a towable air compressor to do it. I did the whole car in a day like this.
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That's the best way to do it, all at once, but there's always something that gets forgotten and you have to go back and do more.
Thanks for the information, I appreciate it. Gotta get myself a small blaster for the stuff that doesn't fit in the blast cabinet but is too small to break out that huge blaster for. Once it's loaded with sand, even though I put wheels on it, it's a real pain to have to move. And the hose and nozzle are unwieldy. And like you I don't have dedicated place to do it either. I had set up a makeshift wall to try to keep some of the sand from just blowing away, then shoveled it up and strained the dirt and grass out, and ran it through again. When I ran out of the silica sand I went down to the river and loaded up some of the sand there. I don't recommend using regular sand.
I was using silica sand because it was left over from when my dad was doing it, but it's just too hazardous, and expensive, what exactly is that black diamond media? Is that just the name I'm guessing?
Rick
I get it at Tractor Supply. Not that expensive, and seems to cut good.
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Cheap hand held hopper gun seems to do good for these spots. But it does go through material quick. And still gets everywhere. I guess if you could make a sheet hood directly over yourself and what you are working on it would be cleaner.
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So it's coal slag as the bag says? I didn't think coal was that hard.
I've been using copper slag for my blast cabinet, and it works great, but also expensive. You definitely would want to confine it to recover as much as you could.
Does the hopper sit on top of the gun like an HVLP spray gun, or does it use a pick-up hose to the container? And where did you find it?
Rick
Quote from: Cadman-iac on September 09, 2024, 09:09:08 PMSo it's coal slag as the bag says? I didn't think coal was that hard.
I've been using copper slag for my blast cabinet, and it works great, but also expensive. You definitely would want to confine it to recover as much as you could.
Does the hopper sit on top of the gun like an HVLP spray gun, or does it use a pick-up hose to the container? And where did you find it?
Rick
On top of the gun with an adjustable flow nozzle. Does not blast at an up angle very well.
Thanks for the info, I'll look into one for myself. I appreciate your time.
Rick
Well I need epoxy primer, but I am broke. So I will take a side step and start restoring the fender skirt brackets and bumper brackets.
A lot of work on my air compressor, so I keep needing to let it cool off. But this will keep me busy in the evenings for the week.
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Well the actual brackets came out nice, I will work on the bolts and mounting plates tomorrow. I may just replace the washers.
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I did the antenna mounting hardware. I need to redo the big bracket. I missed blasting some primer.
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I am missing one semi circle bracket from tge front bumper. My car had been in an accident so they may have lost one. I can get one off my parts car but they are a pain to get to.
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When one sees all the little parts that make up a complete car, one wonders just how much these cars would cost these days, what with purchasing everything, and putting the car together, painting, and labour. Without adding chrome plate to the bumpers, etc, the cars would be out of most peoples' price range.
Bruce. >:D
Those bolts took a lot of work to clean. Seemed more difficult then in the past. I may need to change my bead blaster media.
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And look I found that missing bracket.
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Tedious.
These are done.
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These are up next.
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These should be good enough to restore.
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But these are questionable. Specifically the nuts, washers, and fine thread bolts will be easier to just replace.
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FYI
While working on my rocker the other day, another acorn fell out of the vehicle.
Thousands of acorns have been cleaned and blown out of the body and frame over the years. Each time I find one that becomes the newest "Last Acorn"
In the end the final Last Acorn will be cast in epoxy as a memento.
What method or system are you using to coat or treat your hardware?
I've always had to resort to the wire wheel, carb cleaner or bead blast cabinet and a can of paint. Not the best way but beats nothing at all.
I like how your stuff turns out, it looks like it just came from the factory.
Rick
Quote from: Cadman-iac on September 13, 2024, 11:33:07 AMWhat method or system are you using to coat or treat your hardware?
I've always had to resort to the wire wheel, carb cleaner or bead blast cabinet and a can of paint. Not the best way but beats nothing at all.
I like how your stuff turns out, it looks like it just came from the factory.
Rick
I bead blast, I wire wheel, I sand, and I acid clean.
This is an acid cleaning with soda water rinse to neutralize.
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Then I built a system based on the Caswell plating chemicals.
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Heated tanks of degreaser, zinc plating electrolyte, and yellow dichromate passivate.
I bought a large zinc ingot that I cut up for my anodes. I wrap them in gauze to prevent them from contaminating the electrolyte ad they dissolve.
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This is one more thing that I felt I was wasting money on. I have about $1000 into the system. But there are some parts you just cannot replace and no better way to restore.
I went out and bought some replacement nuts, washers, and bolts today for the items I will not be able to restore. They do not carry fine thread carriage bolts, and I know I cut some. So I will restore what I have and continue looking.
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This is one more thing that I felt I was wasting money on. I have about $1000 into the system. But there are some parts you just cannot replace and no better way to restore.
[/quote]
From what I can see you haven't wasted anything. Your hardware looks like it was factory done.
When you said soda washed, are you meaning baking soda and water to neutralize the acids?
A few years ago I was using a vinegar and salt solution for removing rust and the baking soda to neutralize it. The problem with the vinegar/ salt solution is it will eat more than rust if you leave stuff in it for too long. I forgot about a batch of bolts I'd put in it for a few days and had a useless pile of metal when I found it.
So I've been hesitant to try another method or system.
But yours looks like it works great. Thanks for the information.
How big of a tank/bucket do you use for most of your stuff?
Do you do larger items like hood hinges and engine brackets?
Rick
I could not do hood hinges, or the Trans linkage. So I had a company near me do that. I am also going to take apart my jack and have them do the mast.
I got my authenticity manual today.
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I did not realize there was a diagram in there for the splash shields. That would have been handy.
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Done for the day. My plating tanks were getting hotter then I like them to.
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But I have very little fasteners left. A little more for the bumpers. Then just stuff for the doors. I am happy that I am seeing real progress. When that paint is done it will mostly just be putting things back on.
There is still a list of things I need to pay for.
$4000 Paint supplies
$2000 Stainless Polishing
$2000 Rubber seals
$1500? AC rebuild
$2000 Tires
$1500 Aluminun Anodizing
$600 Fuel tank
$600 Booster Master Cylinder Rebuild
$300 rear Brake components
$400 rear tail light lenses
$500 Engine Bay Wire Harness
$12000 finish chrome restoration
I would like to plate one of these fuel door brackets. But it is to big for my tank. I may just paint this.
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So what is the biggest thing that you can/have plate(d) with your system?
Quote from: Cadman-iac on September 15, 2024, 01:06:24 AMSo what is the biggest thing that you can/have plate(d) with your system?
I did the parking lamps. Bracket in yellow lamp in clear.
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There is a way to do longer pieces with the same amount of electrolyte. Use a 4 or 6 inch drain pipe with a cap on one end. You can transfer your electrolyte into it to do longer skinny pieces.
Laundry and lawn mowing day today, so I did not clean up much. But I get a little done.
The big thing is those fuel door reinforcement rods. Very rusty crusty and took a while to clean before plating.
I am taking a 4 day weekend next weekend. So I will try to start cleaning up that firewall.
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When you say electrolyte, what exactly do you use for this? Is it water that you add a chemical to, or is it an acid like what you clean up the parts in?
Nice job on those lights too. You are probably saving a ton of money doing this yourself too.
Rick
Quote from: Cadman-iac on September 16, 2024, 08:42:38 PMWhen you say electrolyte, what exactly do you use for this? Is it water that you add a chemical to, or is it an acid like what you clean up the parts in?
Nice job on those lights too. You are probably saving a ton of money doing this yourself too.
Rick
I used starter chemicals from Caswell plating. But it is acids and salts. Some people start making their own with vinegar. I maintain mine with Hydrochloric acid. I have noticed my chemical has gotten better over time. I don't know if that is due to more zinc being suspended in solution. Years ago I did have a batch somehow become contaminated. Everything I tried to plate came out black.
DA$% &T
This morning before leaving for work I went into my basement to photograph a part for someone in Germany.
I noticed that the lid of one of my storage boxes was holding soapy water. I can only assume that my dishwasher or sink above was leaking. I moved stuff out of the way and decided to investigate after work.
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Well turns out on the shelf to the left I had my restored rear parcel shelf cover. It is long so I had two bags on it with the split in the middle. The leak was over this bag. So it protected all the stuff below it. But half the water ended up in the bag, and the other half traveled to the right and landed on the storage box lid.
So now I need to remake this parcel shelf. Dang. And it had turned out so nicely.
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Quote from: Clewisiii on September 17, 2024, 04:21:49 PMDA$% &T
This morning before leaving for work I went into my basement to photograph a part for someone in Germany.
I noticed that the lid of one of my storage boxes was holding soapy water. I can only assume that my dishwasher or sink above was leaking. I moved stuff out of the way and decided to investigate after work.
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Well turns out on the shelf to the left I had my restored rear parcel shelf cover. It is long so I had two bags on it with the split in the middle. The leak was over this bag. So it protected all the stuff below it. But half the water ended up in the bag, and the other half traveled to the right and landed on the storage box lid.
So now I need to remake this parcel shelf. Dang. And it had turned out so nicely.
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Looks like it could be saved OR sell it to another 61 owner who needs one too.
The fasteners are almost done. Maybe through the weekend.
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The next big thing will be restoring and plating the tail lights like I did the parking lamps.
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So I am using prebent brake lines for 1962 on my 61. So far I have only needed to modify one area on the line going back to the rear.
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I have just finished restoring a divider block for the front lines. When it comes time I will need to drill the frame to secure. But I will only do that after I connect to the master Cylinder
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I will need to get the master and booster cleaned and rebuilt. I bought one from 62 supposedly rebuilt. But looking at the cosmetic condition of it I do not trust their work. I have tried opening the booster. But I think they painted it closed.
So little hardware left to restore. I should be starting on the tail lights over the weekend.
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First one done. I need to verify how much and what color wires I have left.
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I had a 3 gallon bucket of acetone I used to clean these bigger parts. Well it all evaporated while in a "sealed" bucket inside my chemical cabinet.
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The plastic bulb base for one of these was broken.
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Luckily I had saved an extra one from the front parking lights. I have more on my parts car. But it would be a lot of disassembly to dig one out.
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I am almost out of the bulb base terminal ends. This completes everything exterior. But I may need more for interior ends.
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I cannot believe it but I misplaced one of them. I don't know if I was carrying it around as I looked for the plug base. I may have randomly set it down.
Found it. I carried it into the basement with me to get wire.
Testing the lights. One more to do tomorrow.
One bulb has two filaments. The other is just one.
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I like the different illumination with the cleaned housing over the dirty one.
Maybe Members should be looking at their own lights when complaining about dull lights.
Bruce. >:D
Dual wire version will be fog lamp and single wire will be non-fog lamp.
I picked up my bumper brackets from the powder coater today. So with brackets done, chrome done, and hardware refinished, I want to reassemble the bumpers. But that will be stupid. I am not putting them back on the car till after paint.
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I had a spare air cleaner powder coated. I have a decal for it, but I will need a lid gasket. There are pits showing through on the lid. But I wanted to see one powder coated. It is heavier then the painted one.
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Here is the one I painted. I did some filler on this. So even with pits it is not as noticeable.
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And there is the stickers on the air cleaners. By the book they should be more to the left. Even though my original was actually on the right of the snorkel.
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The sticker is a little annoying. Screen print would be better.
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One oil breather is my original that was rusty and dented up. I did my best hammering it back.
The other is a reproduction that I bought from The Mother Brain.
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And now I have spares to pack away.
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Looking through Hagerty for a restoration insurance policy. I think it is time for that coverage at least.
That did not pop up but I did get a computer quote for a $40,000 guaranteed value coverage. $623 a year. I don't know if that would cover me while restoring the car, I need to look in to it. But that coverage would allow me to get a plate.
Restoration insurance is $254 a year.
Those little details that hang around and bug you.
I need to get a container of black plastidip so that I can coat my battery hold down like original.
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Sounds like you might need a bigger garage. ;) ;)
Bruce. >:D
Little steps must be celebrated just as much as the big steps, if you want to keep up momentum and enthusiasm.
My headliner bow retainers are cleaned up. My bows are still in the original headliner. I need to pull them out one at time to clean them then install into the pockets in my new headliner. I don't want to mix them up. 20241002_193348.jpg
For fasteners I am down to cleaning up scraps or random bags with question marks on them.
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These are the clips that hold the stainless trim around the base of the rear of the roof. Does anyone know if this unique flat square style is available new?
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I did not work on my car today. I spent the day redoing some plumbing at my Mom's house.
But at 8:30 I at least wanted to look at my car once today. I ended up picking up a scotch Brite and started rubbing down the car. Mostly removing 6 years of built up dust and debry.
By the end of the month I want the whole car sanded down, new paint on underbody, and primer sealer on the firewall.
That will allow me to paint the firewall and maybe door jambs in November, then back on the frame by Christmas.
By then all of my labor will be bodywork and maybe a step back into the interior. But all my money will be going into chrome.
I need to take these hinges off and sand under them. Then new pins and bushing and clean up.
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I am going to have to check this out. Looks like some type of leak.
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All I did today was clean up more hardware. And ended by looking at the front and rear window trim clips.
The front clips were held in with screws. The rear were not. But they look like very similar clips.
I think I will try to buy these new rather then restore.
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Coming down to restoring my last few odd parts or bags with question marks or no labels.
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I am going to call to check on my chrome tomorrow, and i found a seller in Wisconsin with a replacement passenger lower window sash.
Well A-W Custom Chrome has this batch of parts stripped and are working through them. Still not expected till the end of the month at the earliest.
This batch was 43 pieces mostly interior. The next batch will be window frames and Cowl if possible.
The last batch I may ship farther away to get a faster turn around. Everything unique to fleetwood that I only had one of I wanted to keep close. The stuff that I have spares of I do not mind shipping.
Sonic cleaner water after running my quarter window base seals for about 10 minutes.
I have them soaking in a rubber restorer now. But I most likely will just buy new.
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A bag of 12 sheet metal screws not labeled. Covered in some sort of black mastic.
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I can only assume they are for these interior panels. I think there was seam sealer over the joints.
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Maybe door access panel covers for the screws.
I renewed my subscription to Hemmings so that I could find some vendors for final things to restore or replace. The last time I had a subscription I found a stainless restorer in Capac MI. But I think they are gone now.
Yesterday I read through it and found an electrical restorer in Lansing MI who might be able to do my quarter window motors. But today I decided to mark the pages. After 3 passes I have not been able to find that listing again.
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Garage clean up day today. Mostly just putting stuff away and cleaning up the bulk of the dust and debry.
If I am going to paint that firewall soon I need to finish sanding and dusting down this body before that.
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This homemade spray booth looks cool. But once the firewall is painted I am cutting it in half. I will need the room to put the body back on the frame. I will leave half the booth up to work the doors, fenders, hood, and trunk. After those are fitting well to the body I will put it back together to work the body as a whole.
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I removed my Hinges. I need to clean up and replace the pins.
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They need to be out of the way anyway since in painting the firewall it makes sense to take it all the way through the door jamb.
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For all the intricate areas I am using these ball scotch brights to get in there.
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They actually do not last long. But I should have enough.
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I finally got my big can of plastidip.
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First I tested a window stop bracket. There are a few other hooks or brackets that will need to take a dip. I will let this bracket dry over night to see how well it will set up.
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The big part is the battery hold down that was rubber coated. I have a reproduction I need to coat.
I had my original that was broken. But I cannot find it. I would like to weld it up, powder coat, then rubber coat the original as a spare. 20241016_171647.jpg
Found it. Looks like it was ran over.
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A little welding and paint and it will be back to original.
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Score.
I have been looking for a replacement passenger front lower window sash since mine is rusted through. I need to drop this off at the chrome shop in the next few weeks with the rest of my window frames.
I found a parts seller in Wisconsin who was stripping a 62 Fleetwood. I managed to get the window frame plus other hard to come by parts I will tuck away as spares.
Complete window. I only need lower sash.
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Fleetwood Eldorado only 3 way mirror. The glass is in great condition. I already had mine restored by the mirror lady. But she could not replace the correct glass. This is in good enough condition to polish and use.
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Trans linkage shield. I already have one. But this is often missing . I will clean it up and have it available for a friend some day.
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Correct fuel pump for a rebuild. Only $35. So a steal for a spare. Knowing the issues people have had i decided to always keep a rebuilt fuel pump in the car when I am finally driving it.
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So this one is questionable. A complete set of rubber floor mats in good condition other then very dirty. These are the correct color for my car. The only listings I have found for reproductions are much darker blue. So I will need to see how well these can be cleaned and if I want to use them. I already had aftermarket carpet floor Mats cut to match my car. So now I have options.
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I have scrubbed this area with a degreaser six times now. Each time I spray more on more yellow comes out.
I wonder if some type of acidic cleaner would be better.
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A little over an hour of soaking in penetrant, a d the window sash screws are out. These look like different screws from the others. But my previous may have just been broken. 20241019_152901.jpg20241019_173225.jpg
Well I am now on two weeks vacation. My window frames will go to the platers when they are done with the first batch.
But the glass channels all need zinc. These are to big for my tanks. Thankfully I have a local place who can do these. I will drop these off and the jack shaft sometime this or next week.
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I decided my spare battery hold down I will cut and bend new metal for tge end brackets. That will be the easiest.
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Those floor mats are soaking. Pulling a lot of crude out. I will scrub and rinse tomorrow.
How much do you think is dirt and how much is nicotine.
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Does your Fleetwood have five ashtrays? Between the noxious fumes coming out of the crankcase draft tubes and folks smoking like chimneys, we were toxifying ourselves!
Well they came out cleanerer. But not as clean as I would hope.
I won't actually be using them for a couple of years. So I will keep experimenting.
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A before and after next to my original. Yes these are the same color. I only had the fronts with my car, now a full set. And my original shows a lot more wear.
These are not perfect. But I cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good. And at $80 for the set that is not bad.
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I went to my glass guy this morning and he removed the glass from this replacement frame. There is still a lot of rust in it. But it is better then the two others I have.
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I will stop by the zinc plater sometime this week to drop off the window glass tracks.
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My rebuilt Battery hold down is a little rough. But for an unobtainable part it is pretty good.
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Now that I have that lower window frame, here is my next batch of Chrome. 18 pieces. I assume $5000 for restoration. But if it is less I will carry a few extras with me to fill in the gap. I will drop these off when I get the call to pick up my first batch of 43 parts.
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I was thinking about spraying a coat of underbody paint on my car tomorrow, and I remembered that I needed to remove and reinstall an out of position fender bracket first.
This thing caused or exposed some damage in its removal. So I will patch and reinstall this tomorrow.
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Well that bracket is welded back in place. Weld through primer is annoying. You dont always get good weld penetration. But i like having some type of coating preventing the rust as before.
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One of my fender skirts did not fit well to the body. I cannot remember which side but it may have been the springyness of this bracket causing it.
I got the primer sealer on my firewall and on the areas of metal repair. I can paint the underbody tomorrow. When I can buy paint, I will be ready for bodycolor on the firewall.
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After I paint the underbody I will remove the rotisserie. I want to put body color on the firewall without having to work around it.
I wanted to paint the firewall over my vacation. But I cannot swing the $2-3000 for paint right now. So after I paint the underbody, and remove the rotisserie, I will be slowing down on my car. Which is fine. I have about 4 other projects I am working on along side.
Carl,
I had a similar situation with a set of original green '66 mats before reproductions were available. I scrubbed them with 0000 steel wool using mineral spirts then soap and water wash and applied a light coat of vinyl protectant.......came out quite nice. Try the back side of a mat first.
HTH
I have to help my Mom with some end of year work at her house tomorrow.
But I hope tomorrow evening I can get a coat of underbody paint on the car. Once I am happy with that I will remove the body from the rotisserie to paint the firewall. When that is done the body is going back on the frame.
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I know that I am fortunate and spoiled. To have enough space to do all of this is a luxury most do not have. And being single, no one is telling me I need to cut back on my hobby spending, or to not store car parts in my spare bedrooms or dining room.
I am blessed and thankful for the luxuries and freedoms I have.
I sent a message to Coker again asking if they will make their bias Firestone in a 2.25 inch white wall.
Cleaning up the adjustable lower fender brackets. These were very rusty. I left them in acid overnight before bead blasting.
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So much corrosion was eaten away that I will need to cut off the weld nuts and install some new ones.
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Prepping new bolts for the battery hold down. 20241030_141238~2.jpg
I got my square nuts. I will need to cut the old ones off, Strip the plating from the new nuts, then weld in place.
I will also need to use these to make a new pair of retainers.
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I picked up my side window tracks and guides from the sandblaster today. I will drop them off at the zinc plater sometime next week.
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Included in that is the shaft for my jack. I had the gear head powdercoated and ready to put back on.
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And I got my repaired battery hold down back from the powder coater. Someone asked me if I could try to make a complete reproduction. I may do that some time when I have down time. 20241101_153318.jpg
The castings are different but both have the same part number 4622 stamped on the side.
Someday when I have extra cash these will got to Arthur Gould for rebuild.
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Hey Carl
This plating process that you have, have you tried plating any carburetor parts, mainly the fuel bowls and air-horns?
I'm in the middle of a Quadrajet and just pulled it out of the cleaner and the cleaner has stripped the coating off of the castings.
I was wondering if I could use the same system that you have for re-plating these pieces, or if I need to send them to someone like a rebuilder.
Rick
Quote from: Cadman-iac on November 04, 2024, 02:24:15 PMHey Carl
This plating process that you have, have you tried plating any carburetor parts, mainly the fuel bowls and air-horns?
I'm in the middle of a Quadrajet and just pulled it out of the cleaner and the cleaner has stripped the coating off of the castings.
I was wondering if I could use the same system that you have for re-plating these pieces, or if I need to send them to someone like a rebuilder.
Rick
I spent over a $1000 building my system. And that was 7 years ago. The chemicals are more expensive now. For $400 or maybe less you can have a carb rebuilder go through your carb replating and rebuilding and maybe testing and tuning.
I used a company called Custom Rebuilt Carbs
Quote from: Cadman-iac on November 04, 2024, 02:24:15 PMHey Carl
This plating process that you have, have you tried plating any carburetor parts, mainly the fuel bowls and air-horns?
I'm in the middle of a Quadrajet and just pulled it out of the cleaner and the cleaner has stripped the coating off of the castings.
I was wondering if I could use the same system that you have for re-plating these pieces, or if I need to send them to someone like a rebuilder.
Rick
Now if you are completly disassembling and rebuilding your carb yourself, if you mail me the parts you want plated i will do it for free.
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Yes, I'm completely disassembling it. Now I'm not sure if the cleaner removed the coating, or just discolored it, it's hard to tell. After cleaning off the film that was on it, it now looks like it was polished.
If it is gone, then I would like to take you up on your offer, that's very generous of you, thank you.
I'll let you know if I need it re-plated then. I do kinda like the polished look though.
Rick
Checking through these parts for any areas the blaster missed. One had dried grease in the track that did not get cleaned out. And checking through all of my door containers I found one more part I had missed.
I plan to drop these off at the plater tomorrow after I vote.
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Drop off at the platers done. The last time I dropped off parts here it was only a one day turn around.
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Finally got these fixed up. Not perfect but great for what they are.
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David Greenburg. I wanted to share with you some information on one of my exhaust hangers. This is the masticated rubber through the frame.
Parts book. Universal picture.
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My drawing from my original one.
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Cut sample from Grant.
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Installed to frame. Note the square corner tucks in the frame rail and the angle cut fits to the outside of the frame.
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To David again. 1961 Forward Headlight Harness I made myself. From Lectric limited this is the same price as the underhood headlight harness. But the underhood harness has more wire.
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Me laying out and making the wires off of the original. The hardest part was the terminals for the headlights they were a type 59 flag connector which are no longer available. I found a european flag connector I think an H4 that I modified to work.
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Here is all that is left of my underhood harness. Half the wires were eaten away by rodents. I hope this is enough of a core for Lectric limited to make me a new harness. I do not have enough remaining for me to make my own.
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Carl- thanks for this info and the pictures. FYI, the '61 with its single exhaust has larger diameter pipes than the '59-'60 and earlier with duals.
When Phyllis first spoke to me.
Years ago as I was working through taking my car apart, I put power to random rodent eaten wires on the fire wall. Well apparently the radio was on, because it started playing a gospel radio station. This was my cars Christine moment.
Well i had hoped to just buy restored door hinge bolts from Jason Edge rather then work through mine. But now that jason has them restored and listed i see those bolts from 63/64 are different from 61. Not only are they different combinations they are also 18tpi when 61 is 24tpi.
So now i have to work through mine.
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Some were cross threaded so i had to chase all the threads. But here you can really tell which three were my passenger front door lower bolts. Mice made a nest filling the door. So the bottom three were rough. 20241109_195050.jpg
Well it is going quickly. But I have to run all of these through a tap before plating. Some were cross threaded and that added to some head damage. If any are to bad I will steal them from my parts car.
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The best thing about any restoration or repair is having a parts car for those hard-to-get bits.
Another reason why when I strip any car, I save everything that is good. This is why my garage is full of good stuff.
Bruce. >:D
I picked up my parts from the platers. They lost one piece. A small rear door track. It says it is the same for all sedans to 64. So either I rip the door panel off my parts car. Or I ask Jason Edge for one.
Now i need to collect window felt and run channels. And rollers.
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I will never actually use this. But it is restored and looking beautiful. I just need to determine where to stick the Follow Jacking Instructions sticker.
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As you intimated, this design puts unusual strain on front and, to a lesser extent, rear bumpers and can distort the alignment and in instances where the underside of the bumper is compromised by rust, literally crush the point of contact. Additionally, they must jack high enough to get a flat tire off of the round, so the jack gets tippy and therefore dangerous.
Working through stripping paint from cowl chrome. These will be part of the next batch of chrome.
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Heres a nice Fleetwood from todays car show.
Carl, my '61 model 62 convertible had its chrome plated cowl painted over chrome! Over many years of ownership, chipping paint revealed the chrome beneath the paint. Any idea why the chrome was hidden? James
Quote from: James Landi on November 17, 2024, 07:56:23 AMCarl, my '61 model 62 convertible had its chrome plated cowl painted over chrome! Over many years of ownership, chipping paint revealed the chrome beneath the paint. Any idea why the chrome was hidden? James
They only wanted the grill reveal to be bright chrome. But since it is all one part they painted the rest.
Thank you Carl for the clarification. For 6 DECADES, I surmised that the cowling in exposed chrome was meant for certain up market models, and less expensive ones had the chrome hidden and were painted over. Your explanation makes total sense. James
'60 was the same way; the parts are all chrome, but then painted body color, leaving only the "slits" chromed. When I had mine painted, I spent a ridiculous amount of time with x-acto knives and green painters tape taping off those slits.
So I had never finished painting the underbody of my car. I decided i hatwd the POR15 red oxide topcoat. It was like spraying yogurt.
So I cut out a section of the original red oxide from a scrap door and had it color matched. I had half a gallon made to spray my underbody and inner fenders. I will try to spray it this weekend.
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I just got the call. My first batch of chrome is ready. But they close in an hour and they are two hours away. Closed next weekend for the holiday. So I will pick up in two weeks.
Man. I should have just had that paint mixed long ago.
So much easier to spray. Tomorrow i might be able to start removing the rotisserie.
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It will be so nice sanding down this body. At least sanding and priming is free. I have been slow mostly due to costs. But those costs are slowly collecting behind me.
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I cannot wait to get that firewall painted.
This frame is just waiting for the body to be installed on it.
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I think I am going to take a vacation day on friday to celebrate getting that first batch of chrome back. It is a 2 hour drive there and 2 hour home. So that is half the day there.
The first batch was 43 pieces. But some quite small like the radio buttons.
The next batch is currently 20 pieces. But on average larger but simpler shapes. I want to stay at the same price as the first batch. So I will bring some extras to drop off if the 20 piece quote comes in cheaper.
I am preparing to go to the chrome shop on friday. I am trying to decide what extra to bring depending on what my quote is for the window frame.
The last time they said their minimum on a small part was $50.
I am not sure if these fleetwood hashes would be minimums but if they are that would be $600. I have nearly 2 sets. But there are 3 sizes I will need to verify a complete set
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Not sure what these washer escutcheons would be. I have new nozzels. I should be able to plate with the brass tubes on.
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I picked up my first batch of chrome. Latter tonight I will unpack and inspect it all on a protected table.
But I also dropped off my second batch. All window frames, cowl, and a few small pieces. This came to $5900. I had to hold back on the Fleetwood hashes. They will be $720 for the twelve.
They are currently running 7 months out. So I will not expect these back until mid summer.
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Well there is $6000 in chrome. Mostly due to intricate shapes and pits that needed to be repaired.
I still have a lot of painting to do on these. Faceplates, inside ashtrys, inside vents.
They restored the brush chrome parts except for the sides of the seats. Since it was inset we decided I would paint them to dull the finish.
I am happy. This was a Michigan car and it sat for 30 years with the windows cracked open. So there were to many pits for me to be happy before.
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I need to sand the finish flat on the veneer and apply a final top coat. But these are looking good.
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I was hoping to get lucky and have the door pull lenses drop in to the new chrome. But I will need a little adjustment.
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Well I have all those door pull lenses in. They hold nice but I want to put a touch of epoxy on the insides to lock them in.
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I need to figure out what to clean this chrome with to prepair some of the parts for paint.
Back to this debate. Now that the chrome is done, it is time to paint the speedometer surround and the radio face plate.
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I have bought many different paints. And I guess in the end it wont matter since they will match. But my two originals side by side did not match, and they do not match my parts car. I kind of like these end two.
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My originals had a brown tint that I am not sure if that was just age or nicotine. But it was brown even under the protected areas. My parts car is mostly just a grey. Here are the original two. If you have thoughts let me know.
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Close up questionable before picture.
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Speedometer surround. Looking very brown.
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So I started rebuilding my instrument panel a while ago.
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But I noticed I cannot really adjust the lower pieces until I install the upper chrome to hold the top pieces together. 20241207_145232.jpg20241207_145237.jpg
I painted these years ago. Then had to redo some. I used the wrong tip and had horrible orange peal. I decided to take them to an actual paint shop and have them do it. But they had an issue having some color and metal flake match from part to part. So I think I will paint them again myself. 20241207_145227.jpg
Here are some pics that might help with your dash resto paint. Used an LED light to minimize color distortion so color is very close to actual. You might notice a very slight tinge of green thrown by the window tint. I don't see much in the way of a brown tint. It's very much silver/gray. Hope this helps.
Quote from: MidModCad on December 07, 2024, 07:29:07 PMHere are some pics that might help with your dash resto paint. Used an LED light to minimize color distortion so color is very close to actual. You might notice a very slight tinge of green thrown by the window tint. I don't see much in the way of a brown tint. It's very much silver/gray. Hope this helps.
Thank You
The screw covers on the door pulls are very difficult to manage. They are hard to remove without damage. I need 8 restored. I have 16 to choose from. So I will work with the best. I will needs these perfect to go up against that new chrome.
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One unfortunate thing is the steering wheel chrome base, and the medalion insert do not fit.
The material build up around the ring was to thick.
I called the chrome shop to ask what the best way to sand it down to get them to fit together was. He said just bring them back and he will correct it. I am thankful for that. 20241208_111233.jpg
Nice to have a company that will stand by their work and fix stuff.
Bruce. >:D
I had to find the retaining springs to remind and convince myself that it is not a friction fit. 20241209_200323.jpg
I got the steering wheel center back from the chrome shop and reinstalled the center. I am happy with it.
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I had one of the speaker emblem surrounds rechromed. I have two Fleetwood scripts. One better then the other. But I can only find one right now. And do not remember if it was the good one. I will need to look around more or clean and consolidate all of my remaining parts.
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Sunday cleaning day. And I found the missing Fleetwood script. And tge missing one was the better condition one. So I am happy for that.
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I am cleaning and getting my basement ready for some new uphostery work. I have a new commercial leather skiving machine coming so that i can properly thin down some leather for piping and some frech seam parts. And I have been trying to switch out my French stitch machine from 8mm stitch to a 6mm stitch. But I need to just contact my sewing machine repair guy to help me. I may wait until the skiving machine gets here so that he can test it before I get started.
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Well it has not been this low for a while. It can come off the rotisserie soon.
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Quote from: Clewisiii on August 31, 2023, 01:36:35 PMWaldrons really is a small shop in the middle of nowhere Amish country. It was a 45 minute drive at 55 miles an hour back roads off of the freeway. I do not think they get many non local customer visits. The door was locked and they only have three parking spaces. But the people who work there were great. Very friendly and helpful.
I made and online order based on feedbacks. The result and quality was great
(https://a.d-cd.net/nXW_v5qCTe_vrOtHvmYJJ_6bJ-U-1920.jpg)
The attention to detail with this 61 is absolutely amazing. I always enjoy updates! I wish my cars were this clean!
Ok. I need to take the body off the rotisserie. And I need to be able to roll and position it over the frame.
I bought these pinch weld clamp rollers. But they only have a max height of 12 inches. I need a minimum of 24. I bought these pipes to make extensions. I will need to cut them down some. As is this would be 34 inches. I might bring them down to 28.
I will cut the pipes, drill new pin holes, and may do a set screw or two to stabilize them.
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8 pass thru holes for lower pins cut. 24 more pass thru holes to be cut. Cut 6 inches off of each pipe. Then drill and tap 8-12 holes for set screws.
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My Devilbiss Dkup supplies for my finish coats it ready. 20241223_140951.jpg
The fronts clamped up nicely. I need to figure out the rear. There is no standing seam at the rear.
I could put the other set at the pinchweld at the back of thd cab. And just leave the rear on the back section of the rotisserie. I think that would actually work well.
Ha.
Maybe I could have just bought one set.
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I think this should work out well. I should be able to roll it over the frame with the rear wheels off.
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I do need to clean and spot paint the areas that were attached to the rotisserie.
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Arrived today. My new leather skiving machine. My small basement trim shop is growing.
Now I just need to learn how to use it.
I have a sewing machine service guy coming next week to set up my 6mm double needle gauge set. I will see if he can give me a tutorial on how to use this thing.
The cool thing is these tools do not lose value. You can basically sell them for the same price as you bought them minus shipping.
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I have some issues. My presser foot arm is not lifting. But this removes the edge bulk from leather very nicely. For french seams I want about a 1/2 inch edge. But this thing can apparently due up to 2 inch. Which should help with piping.
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Looks like you are going to need a bigger house.
Bruce. >:D
Tuning up well. Still needs some tension and a little timing adjustment.
It is better now but I had some real issues with the left hand bobbin hook holding to much material. And the right hand hook skipping stitches.
I had to remove the post cover plates as they were hanging up the feed dog and plate.
I have mostly figured out the leather skiver. But it is hard to clean and is jambing up with all the different test samples I have worked with so far.
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More trinkets to drop in the glovebox some day.
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I got a 4 ounce test sample of paint today. They shipped it in a big box in a bigger box. Maybe that was for insulation to the cold.
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I tested a little from a brush. But I will leave the heat on in my shop over night and spray a test sample tomorrow.
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Ok. I like the color. It is a little more bright then the original. But I like that.
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The paint and clear coat laid down nice and smooth on the testers.
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I sprayed what was left on the firewall. If i had ordered 3 of these I could have done two coats and be good for the firewall.
The firewall shows more orange peel and texture. But it is very textured and has many coats of primer that I am not going to block sand. With how much all of this gets covered up I do not care. It is the body I will work to sand smooth.
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I picked this up off of Ebay calling itself a hatpin.
Whatever it was made for, I think I am going to make a leather driving logbook and mount this to the cover.
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Is it satin (matte) paint and clearcoat? Or is it just gloss paint - all in one?
Quote from: kudims on January 04, 2025, 03:39:07 PMIs it satin (matte) paint and clearcoat? Or is it just gloss paint - all in one?
I am doing basecoat clearcoat. Not single stage. It will be easier for me to work with doing it myself.
My paint supplies are ordered.
My paint, clear coat, primer/sealer, and various hardeners and reducers arrived today. I most likly will not get to it until fall at the earliest. But I am happy to have the supplies.
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I started painting in some of my chrome.
The ash trays did not plate on the insides so I painted them with a chrome paint.
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The air vent black background was painted.
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But I am having trouble with the dash lettering background. The paint is not filling in corners or edges. So I will strip this paint back off and sand the chrome for better adhesion. A wood popsicle stick does work well for cleaning off the tops of the letters.
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Just for fun. Front and rear bumper chrome photo with cut out background.
The smiley face was completly unintentional.
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Looks like my oil leak is at the back of the oil pan or the rear seal.
Some oil on the pan and some coming out of the inspection cover.
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Quote from: Clewisiii on January 30, 2025, 08:02:18 PMLooks like my oil leak is at the back of the oil pan or the rear seal.
Some oil on the pan and some coming out of the inspection cover.
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More likely it comes through the rear crankshaft cap, where there is a hole for high pressure oil line from the pump. See on the photo what I did with red thread sealant, and it completely resolved the problem
(https://a.d-cd.net/pKODCQm4MJCkzi7nKPf-RMjDPLQ-1920.jpg)
I decided that I only need to replace the front door hinge pins.
So I ordered a set. I will rebuild these before I start the main bodywork this summer. 20250131_201534.jpg
So what is my next order of operations. The goal in spring is to put my body back on ghe frame.
Before that I would like to.
Finsh installing all brakes
Install new hydraulic shocks
Buy fuel tank.
Figure out how fuel lines transition from metal to rubber under the hood. And the proper routing.
Finish painting firewall.
That really is not much. About $1300 in supplies still needed for that.
I just need to set aside the time.
Carl,
Please provide us with your expertise regarding your choice of shocks... gas verses hydraulics as well as your choice of manufacturers. While there's a good deal of discussion on the forum with regard to tires, there's not much about shocks. Thanks, James
Quote from: James Landi on February 03, 2025, 07:12:46 AMCarl,
Please provide us with your expertise regarding your choice of shocks... gas verses hydraulics as well as your choice of manufacturers. While there's a good deal of discussion on the forum with regard to tires, there's not much about shocks. Thanks, James
I already had purchased a set of Gabriel Classics. But they are gas charged. I started hunting down to buy NOS delco shocks. But I dont think I want to use 60 year old shocks. The only place I know of that sells hydraulic shocks for my car is Shocks2Springs.
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Not cheap...
Thanks Carl... I've stayed away from gas filled shocks, and much prefer the hydraulics... leave me wondering why the gas are flooding the market.
Good choice to stay away from Gas-filled shocks on a standard car. These tend to raise the vehicle's ride height.
As for why Gas are flooding the market, I would say that they are cheaper to actually make, even though they have Gas inside them. Not many people would want standard shocks so the market would be less. More sales equals more profit.
Bruce. >:D
So I started cleaning a door. I have not touched the doors fenders or hood in 7 years.
They are going to need some clean up and bodywork. But I have a question about the holes for the weather stripping.
Some of my holes still have the plastic inserts in them. Do I need to save these, or will the new weatherstripping come with them.
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The weatherstrips will come with the pins, without the plastic inserts. I don't know if they are available separately.
The plastic inserts can be bought individually on ebay or through vendors from what I can tell. You might have to modify the gaskets slightly but that shouldn't take too much work.
I finally sanded and primed the areas that were covered up by my rotisserie.
Now I am ready to paint the firewall and work to get the body back on the frame. I might paint this tonight.
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In anticipation, I opened one of my gallons of paint to see what I am working with. This is the thickest automotive paint I have worked with. It does get reduced 1 to 1. So I am initially very hopeful for my coverage.
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Love that color.
The color coat is on. Clear coat soon.
I was a little worried with how high these rollers stand. But this rolls nice.
With getting the clearcoat on today, I will be able to take down half my spray booth and start positioning my body and frame on Sunday. After I finish brakes and shocks I can drop it down.
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The paint went down great with a 1.3 tip. I think for the clearcoat on body I will use a 1.5.
It was a little to dry spraying it. But good enough for hidden parts.
I will need to spend some time cleaning my shop to get ready to marry the body to frame.
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Ok half the booth is down. The other walls are in whole sections and the plastick is just pulled back.
After I clean and line the body and frame up to reinstall, I will put the door and filter wall back on.
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Things to do before putting body on frame.
Check all bolts torque.
Grease U joints.
Fill rear end with gear oil.
Install shocks.
Flexible brake lines.
Bonus credit for
Reassemble rear brakes
Fuel tank
Those tall rollers I made up are great. Very stable. Easy to move alone.20250208_212904.jpg
You gave the impression you work alone. But it appears you have a couple of assistants. Or are they just for security?
Wanted to do the same remark with both helpers!
They are getting better about leaving me alone. In the past I would remove a lug nut and set it on the floor while taking off a tire, to turn around and find the lug nut gone.
I ripped the bandaid and ordered those hydraulic shocks. They will be weeks to arrive. But I want to get that body back on the frame so that I can drop my movie screen down again in March.
I need to order flexible brake lines and wheel cylinders after next pay day. But those should be quicker to arrive.
Well my order said 3 weeks to make those Hydraulic shocks. But I just got a shipping notification saying they will be here Thursday. They must have already had a set ready. That is great.
Just putsing around after work today.
I finally got the pin out of this hinge. The original bushings were plastic and had welded the pin in place. This was the worst one. So some success.
The new bushings are a tight fit. I like that. I will not actually install these until I completly clean the hinge.
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Congratulations on getting it apart without too much destruction.
Never seen one as bad as this one.
Bruce. >:D
I cannot remember if I restored the captured nut retainers for these supports, or if they were damaged. But either way I have not found them in my boxes.
I have time to search a little more. But I may have to make a set.
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Well they exist. I just need to find them.Screenshot 2025-02-12 210328.jpg
Found them. Now I just need to verify which side is the retainer and which sidd is the bolts.
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I would have thought that the nuts with the attaching metal strip would have been on the other side, so that the angled parts of the strip would actually straddle the crease line of the chassis to Bumper bracket.
If it was meant to go where you have it, then there would be no need for the folds.
Bruce. >:D
I think that to. I was just thinking about theirk assembly line. If they were standing to the side of the car as it rolled by, the bolts would be on outside. But if standing at center of car they would be from inside.
I be happy to look at my car, but if I understand what I'm looking at, it's not visible once assembled.
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on February 13, 2025, 06:35:19 PMI would have thought that the nuts with the attaching metal strip would have been on the other side, so that the angled parts of the strip would actually straddle the crease line of the chassis to Bumper bracket.
If it was meant to go where you have it, then there would be no need for the folds.
Have the same opinion than Bruce.
I took a picture of those brackets on my car before I took them off to paint them. this is the passenger side.
Quote from: dbzsjones on February 16, 2025, 01:15:15 PMI took a picture of those brackets on my car before I took them off to paint them. this is the passenger side.
So my assumption was correct. Even if it is not obvious.
Being that I work alone, I am not looking forward to adjusting this hood. I do not think I can do that alone.
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So I cut a square tube to fit inside of the spring.
I clamped the tube inside of my vise and used a prybar to stretch the spring.
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Then a round in the bead blaster.
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A coat of paint.
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I used a 2x4 to flex the hinge to install the spring.
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Looks good. I will take these hinges back off. I just did not want to mark the hinge by putting it in a clamp.
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I just wanted to see the firewall with stuff on it.
I need to verify which tank goes where. And I may want to powdercoat these. I painted these long ago. And i think some rust pits are starting to come back up.
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I still need to finish brakes and shocks before I can put the body on the frame.
Wow- it will be better than new! You do great work sir.
Love the dark blue paint. It really shows when the sun hit it in your earlier photos.
Impressive work!
Two and a half pouches of gear oil in the rear end. According to the service manual that is the correct amount.
But with having no did stick I am so tempted to pour in the last half pouch.
I actual no longer own a grease gun. So I ordered one to start going through the ball joins and U joints. I will also need to double check all my torques on control arms.
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Those are some mighty shiny hinges!
I'm embarrassed to post a pic of my firewall compared to yours, but here my my tanks in their original locations and as far as I know both original. Which makes me wonder why our horizontal tanks are different, other than mine is a series 62, but I swear it has every vacuum option available that year.
I think the coffee can ones were used on 59. Not sure how far they may have been carry over.
The Coffee Can was also used on the '66 Models.
Bruce. >:D
Apparently this coffee can slipped into a 61, must of been digging deep into the parts bin on the assembly line that day.
Well I am busy all weekend. But will be free Friday night. I may just take a duster to my frame during the evening.
Unfortunately I will be busy most weekends now through the beginning of April.
It is Fraternity Initiation season and I will be either attending, taking part in, or grading/certifying nearly half of my fraternities in my state.
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Del, did you get one of the Authenticity manuals. Along with the service manual it is a great help in reassembly.
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Quote from: Clewisiii on February 20, 2025, 08:53:16 PMDel, did you get one of the Authenticity manuals. Along with the service manual it is a great help in reassembly.
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Nope, just the service manual. I didn'trealize the benefits of the authenticity manual.
Good news. My U joints were pre greased.
So no need to remove the drive shaft.
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Buttoning up a few random things while waiting to put my body on the frame.
This trans linkage shield has just been sitting in place for a year. Finally installed.
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Still just messing around with shiny stuff.
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The trouble with all this shiny stuff going into/onto the car, when will you be tempted to take the completed car for drive where it will get dirty?
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on February 22, 2025, 06:14:04 PMThe trouble with all this shiny stuff going into/onto the car, when will you be tempted to take the completed car for drive where it will get dirty?
Bruce. >:D
I want to restore my master cylinder and brake boster so that system can be complete shortly after putting the body on the frame. I would like to test drive the car before paint.
I officially have zinc plate envy! >:D
Quote from: dbzsjones on February 21, 2025, 01:54:35 AMNope, just the service manual. I didn'trealize the benefits of the authenticity manual.
Does anyone sell an electronic version of the authenticity manual? I like being able to zoom and search.
Quote from: dbzsjones on February 23, 2025, 08:56:58 PMDoes anyone sell an electronic version of the authenticity manual? I like being able to zoom and search.
I dont beleive so. The authenticity manual is produced and sold by the Cadillac Lasalle club.
I wanted to wait to put my body back on the frame until after I installed the shocks. But that might still be some time until I get them. And my weekends are booked till mid April.
So I decided there is no benefit to the front shocks not having the body. And the rear is easy. So this weekend is the weekend.
My biggest fear was positioning the body over the frame. Now that is done now I just have to bring it down a foot.
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I dont know who else has purchased body mounts recently, but these are a fortune now.
Over $600, and the complete set that Caddy Daddy sells was wrong. The round mounts had a different diameter to the square mounts so they would not fit together. I had to make a complete size list and send to them to make me a set.
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Floating a 1/2 inch over the frame. But I am not feeling like crawling around under it to put in all the bolts. That can wait for a while.
I am very happy this worked out so smoothly. It was a $500 investment in those roller stands to be able to do this. But I thinkbit was worth it to be able to work so smoothly and safely.
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I need to take my service manual out and find the body mount torque specs.
The figures will be in Section 3, under Frame.
For the '59 and '60 Closed cars, the figures are 20 to 35 Ft. Lbs.
Bruce. >:D
Nice having the inner fenders bolted to the body. They had been sitting on brackets to the frame I had made. Maybe up to 3 inches higher in the rear then they should have been.
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And it is going to be a pain cutting and setting the heater hoses. Not on this end. But you can see how much excess that will need to be cut out at the back of the water pump. And that is a limited access area. Especially behind the fuel pump.
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With the weight of everything now, I think I will need to upgrade the tire dollies. These are the cheap $50 harbor freight ones, and they were not fun using on just the frame with the engine.
We have a nice set at work and I was rolling around a Rivian Electric SUV on them easy enough. Maybe I should sell my Rotisserie now and get a set of those.
It would be nice to intall all the AC components before the fenders go on for the last time.
But I would need to figure out the timing and the finances for that.
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Dang, I am two body mount washers short. I forgot the front 4 mounts use 2 washers each. I will need to go to the hardware store.
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So much more shop space freed up. And the spray booth is cut in half for body work on the doors, fenders, and hood. I will have all of these sandblasted again before I begin.
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I took the time to bolt the new brake spliter block to the frame. I hated drilling a new hole. But the two zone fuel lines from 62 I used have a little different layout from the single zone in 61.
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I would really like to finish the fuel lines, fuel tank, and brake master cylinder. I would like to get this technically driveable before I continue with paint.
Seeing the ground strap in your final photo of the upper control arm brought me way back to the 60's when I was the proud owner of a 61 convertible (62 model). What is the purpose of that seemingly already grounded assembly?
Quote from: James Landi on March 03, 2025, 07:11:02 AMSeeing the ground strap in your final photo of the upper control arm brought me way back to the 60's when I was the proud owner of a 61 convertible (62 model). What is the purpose of that seemingly already grounded assembly?
The A arm to wheel would be insulated by the rubber mounts. And I think this is to ground the radio static collectors in the wheel hub.
I read somewhere that it wasn't long after 1960 that GM found it wasn't necessary to continue fitting these ground straps to the Suspension arms.
Now i just have to remember when it was.
Bruce. >:D
Well that is the closest I could get at the first hardware store I went to. Center hole to big. I will keep looking.
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Quote from: Clewisiii on March 03, 2025, 07:19:17 PMWell that is the closest I could get at the first hardware store I went to. Center hole to big. I will keep looking.
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In most cases Amazon prime is much closer and has much wider choice than any hardware store
Well I ordered a box of 25 but nearly 2 weeks for delivery.
I have all the body mounts in, just not torqued yet.
I dont know why But I have enjoyed collecting some original literature for my car.
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But this is something no one needs, but I had never seen it before and wanted it. A dealer service rate book.
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I need to find a binder for it. If anyone knows what one may have looked like let me know.
Fun that carb adjustment is estimated at just under 1.5 hours.
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Other then the last two washers I am waiting for, all the body mounts are torqued down.
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Carl, looking at the photos of your engine bay "brings me back." Engineering and related technologies were so simple when compared with today's automotive technological grand complexities. Doing a 15,000 mile tune up back in the day was an entirely repetitive process, and for many decades, involved little challenge. Even I could manage a tune up with a spark plug wrench, a feeler gauge, a vacuum gauge, a dwell-tact and a couple of screw drivers.
My new hydraulic shocks from Shocks2Springs arrive today.
I should have time to put them in tonight.
Fastenal has a good selection of fender washers.
Quote from: David King (kz78hy) on March 06, 2025, 10:49:38 AMFastenal has a good selection of fender washers.
There is a fastenal 500ft from where am currently sitting, but they are an account only facility with a sign on the door no walk in service.
Well here are my new shocks.
The left is an original replacement Pleasurizer.
Then my new hydraulic shocks.
And the set of Gabrial classics gas charged I bought 8years ago.
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The brand name markings from the gabrial classics are exactly the same except for the part numver stamping. I suspect they buy new shocks and switch out the fluid to mae hydraulic.
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Well the fronts are in. I will torque them later.
I will do the rear tomorrow.
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Well I got those washers in half the time they said. I plated a few.
I got one of the rear shocks installed. But giving myself a headache laying on my back under the car. It would be nice to have a lift. I just do not have the room for one.
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I have a torque spec for the front lower shocks to the control arms. But how tight should I make the nuts at the rubber mount end.
I know they can spin if to tight. How do I handle those.
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I think I have identified the bolts for the fuel lines. They look like they were corroded enough to come from under the car.
I will look for new replacements for these. I had tried several that were close but nothing fit the holes like these.
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Quote from: Clewisiii on March 08, 2025, 11:37:33 AMI have a torque spec for the front lower shocks to the control arms. But how tight should I make the nuts at the rubber mount end.
I know they can spin if to tight. How do I handle those.
Sometimes you have to have some feeling. Not tight enough you may have noise and too tight you are making the rubber kaputt. So, something in between is perfect!
I picked up a few new bolts today.
I have 5 clamps. I think it might need 6. Not sure.
I still do not know how the fuel line transitions to rubber and routes under the hood.
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If anyone has a good understanding of the fuel line routing, please let me know.
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Looking at my parts car it looks like they run along the oil pan and come up inside of the moto mounts. But my parts car has hacked up plumbingvso I do not know if tgat is original.
From this photo it looks like it comes in along the oil pan. But I just do not know how it flows under the engine. IMG_0329.jpg
I decided this is how the lines route on the front of the engine.
The supply line across the front of the AC generator bracket, and the return line between the two.
They go below the engine and route near the trans cooler lines. But I have not determined how the metal lines route under the engine and where they meet the rubber lines.
I had a 3/8 line for fuel and a 1/4 inch line for return. But I could turn the rubber line on the fuel pump by hand while it was clamped on. I switched it out for a 5/16 line that feels much more secure. But I dont know if that is correct and am keeping it yet.
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I would have thought that 3/8" lines would have been too large for the non-performance cars back in the day.
Bruce. >:D
It is a little annoying because I have a small supply of the original color coded clamps that my grandpa stole from the GM plant decades ago. But I do not have one to fit a 5/16 line.
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Quote from: Clewisiii on March 09, 2025, 07:53:04 PMIt is a little annoying because I have a small supply of the original color coded clamps that my grandpa stole from the GM plant decades ago. But I do not have one to fit a 5/16 line.
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Guess Gpa was taking a queue from Johnny Cash? GM wouldn't miss just one little piece! Ha!
It's interesting seeing the minor differences between your 61 and mine. Mine is a CA original car and I never gave much thought to the idea that they were different than any other Cadillac back then, but I have the spacer and PCV valve under my carb, and the port on the valley pan to connect it to, and I don't have a return line port on the top of my fuel filter. I'm expecting this might be the end of the differences, but not sure.
Quote from: dbzsjones on Yesterday at 01:05:25 PMIt's interesting seeing the minor differences between your 61 and mine. Mine is a CA original car and I never gave much thought to the idea that they were different than any other Cadillac back then, but I have the spacer and PCV valve under my carb, and the port on the valley pan to connect it to, and I don't have a return line port on the top of my fuel filter. I'm expecting this might be the end of the differences, but not sure.
The duel fuel lines were onball AC equiped cars. But yes that pcv set up was unique.
I'm swapping AC onto my car. I wonder if I need to upgrade my fuel system
Quote from: dbzsjones on Today at 01:52:21 PMI'm swapping AC onto my car. I wonder if I need to upgrade my fuel system
I beleive that vent return is to prevent vapor lock caused by extra heat under the hood due to the compressor
I purchased pre-bent stainless fuel lines from Inline tube. I have been working to figure out the proper routing, and I think I have established the lines are to short.
The back looks good up over the axle.
The two bends on the front look correct where they move away from the body and transfer to the frame.
But they stop short. They should continue up the frame and bend again towards the inside of the spring pocket. Looks like they should be 16 inches longer.
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Looking at your routing there looks to be too much chance of road obstructions contacting the tubing. Hopefully, another Member can provide pictures of theirs.
The factory bends shouldn't be simple sweeping bends, but precise angles.
Bruce. >:D
These are images I have collected from others.
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Here is the bend going away from the body over to the frame.
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Here is the tubes going under a frame body brace.
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This is the end of the tubes to the inside of the spring pocket.
I tried stretching as much out of the existing pipes to get them as far forward as possible. But I only got 4 inches.