1959 Cadillac Brakes Issue

[Coupe Deville]

I like the one you got from summit racing. Its pretty cheap too. It just freaks me out that the picture is diffrent from what you get. Thank you for the help too.

[Bill Caddyshack]

I like the one you got from summit racing. Its pretty cheap too. It just freaks me out that the picture is diffrent from what you get. Thank you for the help too.

Have a look at my pictures and you can see what it looks like

[Bob Pawluk]

Call Tim at Precision Rebuilders 800 325 2690 for expert service.

[Coupe Deville]

I finaly ordered 50-1117. It should be here in about a week. I will repost when I ge the parts in. Thanks everyone.

[Bill Caddyshack]

I finaly ordered 50-1117. It should be here in about a week. I will repost when I ge the parts in. Thanks everyone.

I just ordered another one that I plan, with Buster Miller's guidance to be able to shoehorn into my 1958 Eldorado like he did in his 58 Coupe. Nice job, Buster!

Summit Racing was the only place I could find another 50-1117.

[INTMD8]

Summit Racing was the only place I could find another 50-1117.

I've had one on order from them for a while and they keep pushing back the expected arrival date. Hopefully they can get it!

[Bill Caddyshack]

I've had one on order from them for a while and they keep pushing back the expected arrival date. Hopefully they can get it!

They did the same to me on the first one I ordered. Then they said they didn't have it. Then they sent it to me. Don't understand.

Got the second one I ordered came in today FedEX. I'll bet you will get yours very soon!

BTW the original How-To post said to shim out the brake pedal about 1/4". It was very hard to get the nuts on the bolts and now my pedal is too low. I am taking off the brake pedal assembly tomorrow and removing the washer-shims. I can't see why you would need to do this (shimming) anyway. The pushrod on my new booster seems the same length as the old booster. I measured with a micrometer.

Here is the post I followed, mostly.

http://www.photopaige.com/edscars/60caddy/CaddyWebSitev2_files/NewBrakes.htm

Maybe it is different, somehow, on a 1960? Mine is a 1959.

[Coupe Deville]

Brakes came today! Fresh out of the box. Will be installing it soon. Any tips on the final instillation would be apriciated. And is there anything I need to do to the brake booster/master before putting it in the car? Should I bleed the master cylinder off the booster on the bench or on the car. Thanks everyone.

[Coupe Deville]

Here's a picture.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Definitely bleed the M/C on the bench.

It will make bleeding the complete system so much easier.

I made up my own bleeding tubes out of old brake lines that bend up and over into the reservoir so that no fluid is lost.

Bruce.

[Bill Caddyshack]

Definitely bleed the M/C on the bench.

It will make bleeding the complete system so much easier.Bruce.

Yes, absolutely!! Hold it in a vise and be sure it is level.

I made up my own bleeding tubes out of old brake lines that bend up and over into the reservoir so that no fluid is lost.

Bruce.

What a great idea!!

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Bench Bleeding made easy.

I made up these for a local Ford M/C.   

The ones for a GM M/C use different thread sizes, so it is a matter of using the correct size flare nuts.

Years ago, when I got a replacement M/C from Texas, it came with two plastic nuts, and two lengths of rubber hose to do the same task.

Bruce.

[Bill Caddyshack]

Bench Bleeding made easy.

I made up these for a local Ford M/C.   

The ones for a GM M/C use different thread sizes, so it is a matter of using the correct size flare nuts.

Years ago, when I got a replacement M/C from Texas, it came with two plastic nuts, and two lengths of rubber hose to do the same task.

Bruce.

And if you got the lines below the fluid level in the MC, not suck air back in. What is the reason to bench bleed if you use a setup like this?

The MC/Booster I got was attached. Do you recommend unbolting the MC from the booster?

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

The idea of using the tubing setup is to simply use the M/C as a pump, to push the fluid through the seals, piston/s, and orifices to get all the air out.

Now, the reason to Bench Bleed is that , you will be surprised just how many times you have to push the piston in till you get as totally airless flow of fluid.    Easier when clamped in a vice, where it is under a stable control, both for pressing and observing, than leaning into an engine bay, and having someone pressing from within the car. 

Then, top up the M/C, put on the cover, and then transfer the M/C to the car, and with fingers over the ports, slip in the tubing, and very little fluid will be lost.   This is because the air in  thew top of the sealed M/C will act as a vacuum to slow the release of the fluid.

I would recommend removing the M/C from the Booster.   Install the Booster in the car, as there is a bit of time taken to get it fitted, and bolted up.   Bleed the M/C, then fit that to the Booster and the lines.

Now, if you have someone inside the vehicle to accept the internal guidance and fitting of the MC, that will leave you to simply fit the lines.

Bruce.

[Thor]

There is another way to bleed the M/C without all the little hoses....

Mount the M/C in a vise (with copper jaws) and place a catch container under and next to it.
Wearing gloves, put two of your fingers over the outlet holes.
Use a screwdriver to push the M/C Piston in, all whilst allowing air/fluid to exit the holes....
When releasing the screwdriver, press on the holes to prevent backflow of air.
When finished, replace the dust plugs in the holes and proceed to install in car.

It takes a while to get all bled out, and wastes a little fluid, but it's a way to get 'er done.

Just sayin'.

Randy Bergum
#26162

[Coupe Deville]

Thanks for the tips everyone. One quick question. Witch resivor in the m/c is for the front and rear brakes? I think the resivor a are both the same size.

[Coupe Deville]

Another question. I am now making the fire wall holes the correct size for the new booster. My question is for who ever has done this conversion what tools did you use to make the firewall holes the right size? I tried these grind stones but they wore down too quick. Any suggestions for altering hole sizes in a steel fire wall? What tool?

[Gabe Davis]

Hi Gavin,

Joined the forum just to post on your brake booster issue!

Actually, I have been lurking for years, but I have done this exact conversion and figured I could chime in. I too discovered this mod from the Photo Paige website and wanted to convert to a dual MC setup.

I used a rat tail file to enlarge the bolt holes in the firewall for the booster. It was not a particularly fun job, but it worked just fine and did not eat away several expensive Dremel bits.

I got my '68 booster and master cylinder from Rock Auto. This was a couple of years ago and, even then, their stock was short. The booster that I used ended up needing the 1/4 inch of space between the inside of the firewall and the bracket that holds the petal. I used several stacks of washers to gain the clearance.

As far as which ports on the MC are for front and rear, I remember reading somewhere, and again this was a couple of years ago so I don't remember where, but the firewall side is for the front and the radiator side is for the rear. I'm not sure if it matters what goes where with the MC being made for drums all the way around.

The MC I had used different sized threads on the ports and the rearward one was larger so I sent that to the front. It took a while to find the right flare adapters to go from the larger ports to the 1/4 in. flare tubing that was on the car originally. I don't remember the exact sizes, but both ports on the MC were larger than 1/4 in.

It's nice having the piece of mind of a dual system. I had a rusty line blow out completely in the rear at one point. Pedal went to the floor but fortunately there was no traffic and I was able to bring things to a stop with the E brake. Not an experience that I wanted to repeat.

Anyway, a lengthy first post, but hopefully I could help a little!

[tzurick]

Another person did the upgrade but upgrade to discs in the front and used a 68 master cyclinder I believe.  The front side goes to the rear.

"Also, I wasn’t sure which way to plumb the new dual master cylinder.  The ABS guy set me straight with the front reservoir to the rear brakes (with the inline proportioning valve) and the rear reservoir plumbed to the front brakes.  The kit came with 3/16” brake hoses, although the car has ¼” lines, and I was able to confirm that I don’t need to switch to 3/16" hard lines, I can just put a reducer between the hard line and rubber hose at the wheel."

http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/forum/index.php/topic,6570.30.html

[Bill Caddyshack]

I can't see how it matters, but apparently it does. I was told by Midwest Power and Booster Dewey that the front brake line goes to the front of the master  cylinder goes to the front and the rear to the rear. Mine was labeled with a different color plug in the front and rear.

Also the openings for the brake line fittings will have to be adapted to fit the Cadillac 1/4" lines. AND the fittings where they screw into the body of the MC are different. I took my MC to Autozone and had them screw in different fittings until we found two that worked.

In the directions that come with the MC, you will note it says to remove the MC from the booster, clamp it LEVEL in a vise by one ear. Do NOT clamp it by the body.

And using a dowel, pump the MC until it is bled, NOT PUMPING MORE THAN 1". I don't know why this caveat is there, but the manual (Page enclosed with the MC) writers seem to feel it is important. RTFM Read The Freaking Manual.

Lastly, enlarging the holes in the firewall is quite a job. I used a rat tail file, but it was so slow that I used a saber saw with a short metal cutting blade and very carefully ate away at the firewall metal, finishing it with grindstones.