Gas Problem

[GRH]

Everybody is stumped. 1932 Lasalle: Drove the car from paint shop and ran great. We noticed rust in gas bowel so had gas tank cleaned and sealed then the car did not run any distance and stopped. Had the carb and fuel pump rebuilt still did the same thing. Thought was vapor lock so insulated the lines. Next noticed the fuel tank liner was peeling so had the tank redone. Ran for about 2 miles and then stopped again.Pulled Carb and made sure float was set correct. Car went about 3 miles and stopped again.
Every time it stopped the car would start after it set for 30 to 45 minuets. Just like vapor lock.

Last time the car started if choke was pulled all the way out but would not run unless idling =push choke in and car would stall.

We are stumped anybody have an solutions??? Would love to drive this car and keep off tow truck.

[D.Yaros]

Sounds like:

a) A sock filter is getting clogged
b) A fuel line is collapsing
c) A non-vented gas cap on a vented system

[Steve Passmore]

Sounds like the tank liner coming off again. Rig up a temporary can of fuel in the engine bay feeding the carb and see if it still does it.

[MY 59]

I agree with both of the above and would first do as Steve says and rig and rig an alternate fuel source

if the only thing that has changed is relining the tank, all fingers point to it, or a change caused by it
interested to see the outcome

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

Would be a little hesitant to think vapor lock or a vent problem after only a couple of miles. If you have the tank off again, or have access, I would suggest blowing out the lines.
Good luck.
Jeff

[dochawk]

Check out Carl's posts on the difference between new and old gas; what's sold today just isn't what yours wants.

He's actually removed a part or two on his '27 to deal with this, and has proposed an insulation gasket to help more.   He's thinking hi-tech high insulation, but any insulator will stop most of the heat transfer.

He posted on this a few days ago somewhere on this site.

hawk

[Carl Fielding]

Rick , I don't think this fits the symptoms we experienced. The cycle times are too short. Even by '32 I believe too much intake heat was still being used. Certainly it is beneficial to take measures to lower this if true. But I don't think that is the culprit here. Let's stay tuned.  - CC

[DaveZ]

Go with what they said about chink the gas lines from tank to pump and pump to carb. It sounds like it is starving for fuel. It is not hot enough after a couple miles for it to vapor lock. We had a weird problem. The care would start and run then after about 5 to 8 miles it would start to die and sometime backfire; then be hard to start, Turned out to be a fault dist cap. We figure as soon as it got warm it expanded and allowed the spark to arc. We never did see a crack:-)
Let us know what you find.
Dave Z

[GRH]

Everybody had some great solutions. After rebuilding the fuel pump carb. and insulated the fuel lines and wood clothespin we tried running the car bypassing the fuel pump with an electric one the car ran good and then no gas to the carb.
Checked the temperature why running and the temp reading was 250 degrees at the carb.   Is this a problem?

Well I had the tank taken off again and guess what the winner was peeling off again. Third time!!. I told the company to boil the tank and leave it without a liner. I hope this solves the problem. Hope someone can give me an idea about the 250 degree temp.

Thanks to everyone who responded.

[DaveZ]

If it is running lean, timing advanced, valves not seating right it will run hotter. How are you getting the temp? I can do same on ours and let you know what it reads. We milled down the intake manifold and placed insulation gasket between the intake and exhaust manifolds. With that and using non alcohol gas it runs pretty good. Electric fuel pump helps too. We have driven it 100's miles with no problems.

[dochawk]

Everybody had some great solutions. After rebuilding the fuel pump carb. and insulated the fuel lines and wood clothespin

As came up in another thread, the clothespins are kept soaking in a jar of water, not left attached.

When attached, they provide a source of water to evaporate and absorb heat; the pins themselves do nothing.

hawk

[GRH]

David they checked the temp with one of the machines that can direct a light to give the temp. I am a loss to remember the name of it.

[fishnjim]

When you say you measured the temperature at the carb to be 250 what exactly and how were you measuring?   If it's an optical(IR) pyrometer gun, it might be seeing the manifold temperature.  Or held a thermometer on a certain part? Some of the early motors have exhaust ports running through the manifold to prevent "carb icing".   So 250 may or may not be your issue.   Depending on where you live the gas is blended differently.   http://inside.mines.edu/~jjechura/Refining/02_Feedstocks_&_Products.pdf   p 31.
Any time the fuel doesn't easily get to the pump, you'll have delivery issues.   It should "almost" syphon up the line on it's own from the vapor pressure.   
I'd suspect (common) if the tank was rusted, the line is in poor shape.   I'd replace both.   Some guys blow fuel line back into the tank, instead of taking off and this works for a few miles then stops up again.   It happened on the road traveling with my motorhome once.   Made it 50 miles further away...
Try some non-ethanol high test gasoline and see how it performs after you clean/replace the tank and line.   These motors weren't designed for ethanol RFG.   If it vapor locks, then you'll need to add an insulator under the carb.   

[GRH]

Thanks fishnjum appreciate the info. Will try after tank is back in.

[bcroe]

A non contact infrared thermometer can directly read the temp, if it
has a wide enough temp range.  I use one on solar panels. 
Bruce Roe

[Glen]

One thing to keep in mind with the infrared thermometers is the area measured is dependent on the distance from the surface.  The closer the smaller the area. 
Had a friend that stood ten feet from a running engine and put the laser pointer of the thermometer on the exhaust manifold to measure the temp.  He did not realize the area he was measuring was a circle about 10 inches in diameter.  The thermometer averages the reading of the whole area.   He thought the laser pointer was what measured the temperature.       

[GRH]

Well everyone I think we are getting close to being able to drive the car and keep off tow trucks(although the gas mileage is great on the tow truck)
The fuel is getting to the fuel pump with no problem but not to the carb. Installed an electric pump and hope this does not create a problem. Does anyone know how to check and make sure the fuel pump shaft is the correct length or could the lobe the shaft connects to could be bad. If so what is a fix?

[Carl Fielding]

The exhaust heat to the intake manifold was not to prevent carb ice. Yes , that could be a benefit just at warmup. And under some extreme conditions it is remotely possible you could develop carb ice. Gasoline from the mid , or late '20s until 1930 or so had a high percentage of very high boiling point components. Much like kerosene. It had to be heated to high temp in order for proper carburation and combustion. For proper running on modern gasoline , it is a good idea to make plates to block off the exhaust from the intake manifold. If you are able to take steps to interrupt the thermal bridging from any high temp regions to the intake manifold or carb , so much the better. The improvment is quite noticeable.  - CC

[cadillacmike68]

If it is running lean, timing advanced, valves not seating right it will run hotter. How are you getting the temp? I can do same on ours and let you know what it reads. We milled down the intake manifold and placed insulation gasket between the intake and exhaust manifolds. With that and using non alcohol gas it runs pretty good. Electric fuel pump helps too. We have driven it 100's miles with no problems.

Timing retarded, not advanced will cause it to run hotter. Advancing the timing helps cool the engine but brings its own set of issues.

[GRH]

looking for info on the Fuel Pump Shaft that connects to the cam in the distributer. Doesn't seem to be pumping not sure if shaft is too short or the cam lobe is bad.