Pre-war (up to 1942) 1939 LaSalle 5019 Interior Upholstery

[39LaSalleDriver]

It's been a long spring, but I finally got my front suspension and steering successfully rebuilt. While it was out of action, I had also decided to have my carburetor rebuilt by Carburetor USA. I must say that it took a bit longer to get my carb back than I had hoped, but it looks fantastic and the car runs better than ever now. They felt that it had never been touched since it left the assembly line and it definitely needed it (as well as a few replacement parts). If it doesn't rain I am registered to bring it up to the GN in a couple of weeks.

Looking down the road to the next big project, I have decided it is time to start researching and tooling up to redo the upholstery for next winter. I had always intended that I would get a LeBaron Bonney interior kit, but obviously that's off the table now, so I have to explore other avenues.

What I have going on now is what I am guessing is a reupholstery kit job that was done maybe 25-30 years ago. It is a gray microsuede which works fine now just to “get by�, but I want it to look as factory original as I can feasibly get it. The seat covers look barely passably done, but the door panels and windlace all look amateurish and cheap. Add in years of neglect, filth and water damage...well, it just needs to go.

At this point, my thought is to assemble the correct materials, see if I can find an upholstery shop which can make new seat covers etc. possibly using the ones I have as a pattern, and then recover the seats myself. Also I would replace the necessary springs, and redo all the burlap spring socks. Additionally, I think I can also do the door and trim panels without a lot of difficulty. While I expect this to be quite an undertaking, I definitely know my way around a sewing machine and have many other craft skills which I think will pave the way somewhat.

Right now, what I need to find out is what materials were used where. My body plate indicates that I have trim code 33 which is “Gray Ribbed Cloth 56T139� for the “cushion and backrest� according to the authenticity manual. This is easy enough to identify as I have a sales brochure showing that material as well as photos from two other cars which have that cloth. From what I can tell, it is decidedly NOT bedford cord.

Now, the authenticity manual states that “57T139� is to be used for the door panels, pillars, back of seat, etc. Can anyone positively identify the 57T139 cloth? I have seen a couple of examples that I suspect are that cloth, but hoping someone can verify. (see photos below-hard to see but appears to have a fine diamond or crosshatch type pattern)

Once I have identified the materials, then I can go about sourcing them which I suspect may be impossible. Even if it is, I hope to be able to come up with something that is a reasonably close substitute. To be honest, even the sample swatches sent to me by LeBaron Bonney about a year and a half ago didn't impress me as being that overly faithful in color or style to what I have seen. If anyone has any observations or suggestions, I would certainly welcome them.

[DaveZ]

Hi Jon,
    With how the fabric fades it is hard to tell. If 39 and 40 were the same I can go look at our cars and see which is which because both are different. One has the herringbone and the other doesn't. I can check the code and match it. See if it is the same as 39.
Dave

[DaveZ]

I looked in book first. 39 and 40 are not the same. Your 33 gray broadcloth is correct in the picture you have.  SMS has really good materials, but their turn around time can be iffy. Took us about a year to get it:-( BL is out of business so they are excluded. Bill Hirsch has material also.
Best of luck with it!

[39LaSalleDriver]

Thanks for looking Dave, but I suspected that was the case. For what it's worth, here is the swatch page that LeBaron Bonney sent me about a year and a half ago. As I mentioned before, I wasn't that excited by what they had available to begin with. For my car, I assume it would have been most logical that samples marked "8-LM Wool Broadcloth" would have been for my panels and back of seat, "9-C Bedford Cord" for the seats, and "F-3" for the carpet were the options I would have had as the closest matches.

But none of their samples really matched the weave or color I would expect was available on 39s. The weave is self explanatory, but I also think their colors were way too dark based on my research (see attached factory photo). I understand the dangers of looking at surviving cars for color matching because of fading and all; but such even fading and to that radical a shade extent I would find unlikely. Note in the factory photo also, that everything seems to tonally match. Using what LeBaron Bonney had, would have led to a serious two-tone effect that I just don't see in period sources.

Of course, none of this really matters now since they are out of business. I have yet to contact SMS, Bill Hirsch, or Jenkins to see what they have, but I fear it may be a similar situation. My hope was that someone could give me a bit more definitive lead as to a source which would be a more exacting match to what was on original cars. I've seen some pretty crazy materials used on 39s which, while they sometimes look nice, aren't anything close to original. A favorite seems to be a type of gray wide wale corduroy material which folks invariably use for everything, seats, door panels, etc. That's fine if that's what other folks want to do, I'm just trying to stay as OEM as possible.

[39LaSalleDriver]

While I'm at it, I'll just go ahead and put these images up that I have culled from original sales brochures and the like. Someone besides myself may benefit from my leg work, or perhaps even be able to add to it. I realize that sometimes artists take liberties when doing illustrations like these, but for the most part, they seem to be pretty consistent with what we know.

[39LaSalleDriver]

Part II

[39LaSalleDriver]

Part III

[DaveZ]

Hi Jon,
  Definitely not what LB sent you and for sure not corduroy:-)  The picture you had of sample 2 is what it would have been.  SMS has a pretty good selection. From the LaSalle book you only had two choices grey or tan and since you know yours was grey and not patterned that leaves only one left; broadcloth which matches your number too:-)
I'm in the same boat. I was going to do mine and was going with LB, but no more. I know what to get for the seats, but will have to get samples for doors headliner etc.  You can request samples from them or Hirsch. Just tell them the year, code and gray broadcloth.

[39LaSalleDriver]

BTW....for all interested parties. Bob's Automobilia has the front rubber floor mats back in stock!!!

https://bobsautomobilia.com/interior-floors-and-doors/1939-40-brown-floor-mat-unpunched-.-ff-390bnu/

Don't know how long they've had them back in stock, how many they have, or how long they will have them, but I ordered mine last week and it arrived today! I had been looking for one of these for a year and a half and had almost given up hope that we would be able to ever get these again. I'd say if you need one, you'd better get one post haste before they're gone.

[coupe33]

Jon,
Thanks for the hood spring pictures and measurements. I am looking at my interior and it is also a little faded and the gray broad cloth other than a little dirty is in good shape. The headliner is torn and needs to be replaced. I will keep watching.
Thanks again
Ed Hawkins  coupe33

[LaSalle5019]

Original tan in my 1939 LaSalle (exc carpet).
Scott

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

Why do you keep thinking that someone is going to have the very same upholstery available for #1, 80 years old, #2, compared to Ford/Chevrolet very limited production, #3, limited amount of cars remaining to restore, #4 VERY limited # of people restoring older cars these days. It's just not going to happen. I certainly applaud your efforts to be "right," but...

What you need to do is find a smooth broadcloth or Bedford Cord that blends with the color you are painting the car. And then go for a quality job. Nicely done seams and corners will make the car look "original" once again. The problem with what was in the car originally was that the cloth looked too modern.

I really do wish you the best of luck. What you might do is go through the Directory and ask owners for pictures of their interiors, what they used if theirs is "done," and so on. Drawings of the interiors won't help too much as they are usually way off. Again, keep at it and smooth seas.

[39LaSalleDriver]

Why do you keep thinking that someone is going to have the very same upholstery available for #1, 80 years old, #2, compared to Ford/Chevrolet very limited production, #3, limited amount of cars remaining to restore, #4 VERY limited # of people restoring older cars these days. It's just not going to happen.

I don't. I think you may have misread some of my commentary.  

I stated from the get-go that it will be impossible (or close to it) to find material that matches what was originally in these cars. If it were available I'm sure it would have shown up long before I got involved.

My overriding point and methodology (though I may not have stated it as such) was/is trying to find a baseline from which to create my restoration. That baseline being what was in the cars originally, what materials were put on what panels, what direction the grain of the cloth runs on each of those pieces, what shade/color range and texture were those materials, etc., etc., etc. The fact that they may not be available for purchase is inconsequential at this point. Unfortunately, the Authenticity Manual doesn't address any of these things. In fact, all the Authenticity manual has is a line which reads "The upholstery charts are located at the end of this section" with four small pictures (two of which are drawings as I posted earlier of convertibles, one a picture of a CLC members restored convertible, and one of a 5019 which doesn't show much). The chart at the "end of this section" lists the original GM designation for each cloth and it's code, but nothing else. That's not much to work off of.

Since my interior was torn out and replaced with a cheap, not remotely factory type interior, I have to establish a point of reference as I have had limited hands on experience with any other 39 LaSalle's. There again though, you have to be careful because I would argue that some, if not many restorations were done with no concern for authenticity and instead based on cloth availability, owners whims/tastes/budget/experience. Not being critical of that approach, but my focus is first and foremost to TRY and replicate what was in the car as close as is feasible, even if is contrary to what my tastes would be.

Once I can establish those "what was", then I can start shopping around for realistically "what can be had". Having hand tailored clothing for myself and others in the past, I have extensive experience with textiles so cloth is a big thing for me. In years past I have prowled garment warehouses and shops in New York and Philadelphia so I'm not afraid of digging around somewhat in unconventional places to find what I'm looking for.

Ultimately, it may come down to using broadcloth and Bedford Cord as you suggest, but I have to try Thanks for your input and I hope to make your acquaintance at the GN in a couple of weeks and pick your brain a bit

Original tan in my 1939 LaSalle (exc carpet).
Scott

Wow! That interior looks fantastic Scott. Thanks a bunch, your photos are exactly the kind of data I am looking for. I am hoping at the GN that someone will be there so I can get a hands on look and perhaps some measurements of things like the stitch patterns on the door panels.

[LaSalle5019]

They always look better in pictures. Let me know if you want any specific close ups or measurements.
Scott

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

Jon, you sound like my kind of guy. In another life, I was one of the 700 Fussy Tailors from Richman Brothers, so I know quite a bit about tailoring myself. I'll look forward to meeting you at the GN. If you want to check on an original, try Glenn Brown. The 1940 LaSalle that he always rode in to the GN with his long time friend I'm pretty sure had an original interior. I'm sorry if I read your post wrong. Take care.

[39LaSalleDriver]

They always look better in pictures. Let me know if you want any specific close ups or measurements.
Scott

Guess you'd know better, but from what I can see that interior looks fantastic for an 80 year old car

Since you've offered...a couple of things.

1) I assume the kick panels are the same material as the door panels, correct? Also, do your kick panels have any pocket(s) for registration papers etc.?

2) Similarly, is the back panel/section of the front seat and robe rail also the same broadcloth as the door panels?

3) Is the shelf at the back window pretty much the same material as the headliner and sun visors, a kind of fuzzy cotton flannel material?

4) At your convenience (I am in no real hurry here) could you measure the dimensions "A" through "I" on the attached photo?

Thanks for your offer of help, this information and your photos pretty much answers any questions I have for right now on how the upholstery is to look. Those measurements are particularly important as I think I can fairly effectively duplicate that look on my door panels.

Jon, you sound like my kind of guy. In another life, I was one of the 700 Fussy Tailors from Richman Brothers, so I know quite a bit about tailoring myself. I'll look forward to meeting you at the GN. If you want to check on an original, try Glenn Brown. The 1940 LaSalle that he always rode in to the GN with his long time friend I'm pretty sure had an original interior. I'm sorry if I read your post wrong. Take care.

Oh wow...that must have been quite an experience. By no means are my tailoring skills in that league. I may even have a garment or two around that you could have worked on (I collect vintage clothing too)

Strictly amateur here, but passable enough for the type of work I was doing, and apparently passable enough that other folks would pay me to make a garment for them here and there Harder to do these days as the old peepers have a difficult time seeing fine work up close without magnifying glasses; but I can still lay down some pretty good hand worked buttonholes when I have a mind to. Will look forward to visiting with you at the GN. I plan to drive up Tuesday if it isn't raining, and sadly will have to head back Wednesday night or Thursday morning because of work.

[59-in-pieces]

Speaking as a guy who has his feet firmly in the 20 years later 59 Cadillacs, the "tailoring" required to pull off the interiors of the 39-40 era - all-be-it a LaSalle (maybe Cadillacs were different, I don't know - no disrespect intended) - was extraordinary in comparison to my 59 era, and a universe away from the slap-it-together interiors of modern Cads.

Restoration of the luxurious interiors of your cars certainly takes a special breed and especially an eye for detail (way more than body and paint) - because without it, it would look sloppy and detract from the car which stood for an example of the Standard of the World.

Have fun,
Steve B.

[39LaSalleDriver]

Speaking as a guy who has his feet firmly in the 20 years later 59 Cadillacs, the "tailoring" required to pull off the interiors of the 39-40 era - all-be-it a LaSalle (maybe Cadillacs were different, I don't know - no disrespect intended) - was extraordinary in comparison to my 59 era, and a universe away from the slap-it-together interiors of modern Cads.

Restoration of the luxurious interiors of your cars certainly takes a special breed and especially an eye for detail (way more than body and paint) - because without it, it would look sloppy and detract from the car which stood for an example of the Standard of the World.

Have fun,
Steve B.

Thanks for your observations Steve, I enjoy all input. However I am prone to both agree and disagree with your statement. No doubt the workmanship should be exceptional and detail oriented. But the interior door, kick, and pillar panels I would argue are of a somewhat more basic design than later cars. Think simple and elegant (typical art deco styling) more than chock full of fussy and elaborate details. As I mentioned before, I am also no stranger to cloth (particularly wool and how to work with it) or putting needle to thread whether by hand or machine. The stitching patterns on the door panels are very straightforward. Not to be a smart alec, but one project I was commissioned to do was to make a museum quality duplicate of a garment held in the archives of the Smithsonian Institution. It was entirely hand sewn (approx. 15,000 hand stitches) and had extensive embroidery work. I don't really think a simple door panel is going to pose too much difficulty for me.

Now as for the seat covers, yes I will be seeking out pros to do those. Having never sewn seat covers before, I would rather someone more experienced than I take the lead on that. I anticipate disassembling the seats, cleaning up and replacing the necessary springs, replacing the burlap pouches for the springs, and so forth. At that point, I will make the determination as to whether I will recover the seats with the covers I have made, or to have the upholsterer do it.

[carlhungness]

       Very interesting thread here and I'm paying attention as I want to re-do my '37 LaSalle coupe. I spoke with Marquarts in Ft. Wayne, IN (260-747-3494) and they have installed several LeBaron Bonney kits in the past. Thus I think it might be worth a call to them to see if they can recommend a shop near you to do the job. Often times a
craftsman in an industry knows others around the country.
      Do we know who bought the LeBaron Bonney assets, or if they have been sold?

[LaSalle5019]

Guess you'd know better, but from what I can see that interior looks fantastic for an 80 year old car

Since you've offered...a couple of things.

1) I assume the kick panels are the same material as the door panels, correct? Also, do your kick panels have any pocket(s) for registration papers etc.?

2) Similarly, is the back panel/section of the front seat and robe rail also the same broadcloth as the door panels?

3) Is the shelf at the back window pretty much the same material as the headliner and sun visors, a kind of fuzzy cotton flannel material?

4) At your convenience (I am in no real hurry here) could you measure the dimensions "A" through "I" on the attached photo?

Thanks for your offer of help, this information and your photos pretty much answers any questions I have for right now on how the upholstery is to look. Those measurements are particularly important as I think I can fairly effectively duplicate that look on my door panels.

Kick panels are not the same material at all.  Kind of a cheap crappy faced cardboard - maybe painted?  Not Cadillac quality.

Headliner and sun visors are similar material and as you described. See photos of the rear of the front seat and back shelf.  These are both different materials from the rest.

A: 19-7/8", B: 20-3/4", C: 6-1/4", D: 14-3/4", E: 3/4", F: 7/16", G: 13/16", H: 3-1/4", I: 4-1/2"

As you can see, the front door panels are not quite as nice but after thinking about it I decided to leave them as they are and not restore them. Margins and stitch patterns are the same as the rears.  Included a few more shots.  Good luck with the project.
Scott