1939 Cadillac Convertible Sedan #23 of 36 Built

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

Along the lines of Tom's suggestion about turning over rocks, you stated that the barn entrance was blocked by trees.  If you have pictures of that and you can  establish the size, type and growing pattern s for that region, you'll have an estimate of the  year it was stored.  James

I'm sitting here in stunned silence.....before we enlist an arborist, let me just say I can't wait for the motor & transmission to show up....haha....

I really appreciate the info you guys were able to dig up....you guys made it look easy!

Mike

[Tom Boehm]

Kinda like we are putting the cart before the horse.

[James Landi]

Tom--my reference is to determining the approximate ages of the trees, and not  about the possibility that the '39 was stored with carts and horses--- although now that you mention horses and carts..    Too much fun... maybe our friend will unearth some sizable sum of money in the trunk and we can check the date.  Happy day,  James

[Jeff Hansen]

Mike,

I was going through some photos I took at Hershey in 1994 and stumbled across this one.  Could this be your car?  The photos of the top you showed a page or so back look similar.

Jeff

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

I'll be darn Jeff!......It could be....

The shady looking Whitey Bulger type guys look like they are from New England...haha

This picture is 25 years old.....maybe it's the car!

Their running boards are better....the gas cap is different....I have those convertible Sedan posts, these guys don't look like they have them, they look kinda home made....The roll up divider window looks to be gone, so is mine, the wood at the top there has some gouges....I'll check mine tomorrow , also I'll check for those to scratches on the rear drivers door in some of the pictures I took....

Jeff thanks for posting this !!

Mike

[James Landi]

Hey Mike--- how about the license plate--- the state,etc. how about the report from the arborist?   Too much fun.  Happy day to you,   James

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

It's the same car!!

[James Landi]

If it is, was the engine running then? how did it wind up in the barn? do these pictured CLC folks know more history, or..."does the trail go cold" following that picture.   James

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

Hey Mike--- how about the license plate--- the state,etc. how about the report from the arborist?   Too much fun.  Happy day to you,   James

James that was one of the first things that crossed my mind.....If Jeff's picture is 25 yrs old and that is my car, the trees they cut down to get the car out of the barn couldn't have been that big!...haha

I think the shady guys in the picture are carrying those over the shoulder bags to carry parts....so I'm thinking they just walked by and were just looking at the pile of stuff....

I really don't think it's the same car...marks on the door and the gouges in the wood where the divider window should be are just different....but having said that, there were only 36 of these cars built, how could 2 of them end up looking almost exactly the same??

Mike

[James Landi]

Mike,

Have you any knowledge of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle?  If it's going to occur involving antique and very rare cars, I think that principle may have occurred in your case.  James

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

Good news....I found a rebuilt motor & transmission.....never started....these came with a parts car.....I'm always amazed at the lack of any kind of rust on a California car...

The lifting bracket I used today, I turned sideways...I didn't want to break or even touch that crossover exhaust pipe....

The guy told me it needs a pilot bearing....is that the same as a throw-out bearing?

There is no clutch in it yet but he gave me a stack of clutches and pressure plates....

I'm going to need some guidance for the clutch install...

Can I get the clutch alignment tool at Napa?

He told me it's a fairly easy job....just pull the tranny back and install clutch....He said the clutch was new and the pressure plate was rebuilt also.....looks ok to me..

Mike

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

The Pilot Bearing goes in the end of the Crankshaft, and holds the transmission Input Shaft in alignment as the clutch plate is spinning when the pressure plate is presses in.   It is the Throw-out Bearing that is on the end of the Clutch Fork, and presses on the Fingers of the afore-mentioned Pressure Plate.

Bruce.

[harry s]

Mike,  Looks like you are back in business. A couple of "while ur at its"  on the clutch. Regarding the pilot bearing there is a snap ring that fits in a slight groove that  holds it in place. Also check the fit of the bearing as to the input shaft. Sometimes these are too tight and won't allow the transmission to slip into place much less separate if necessary. It is a good idea to check the clutch disc mating surface of the flywheel (also on pressure plate) for smoothness and run out. A little roughness or a couple of .000 can cause  chatter  Harry

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

Thanks guys....Are the pilot & throw-out bearings Terrill Machine items?

The mating surface of the flywheel / pressure plate has a very light hint of rust on it....that shouldn't be a problem...right?

I'll just steel wool it off?

Mike

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

You could use Wet'n'dry paper or Steel Wool, or even a wire wheel to remove the rust from the surface.   Won't be removing any metal to unbalance the plate.

Bruce.

[James Landi]

SO Mike, for those of us who daily anticipate each strategic move you make as we figuratively hang in from each installment to the next, what's the plan?  Will you "bench test" the engine before you install it?  And what's the history on the motor?   We're cyber channeling good outcomes your way Mike, and very much hoping for your success as you persevere and press on. .   James 

[kevinanderson]

Get the flywheel resurfaced.  Might  look good.......  And I would get the clutch assembly checked out and balanced.

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

SO Mike, for those of us who daily anticipate each strategic move you make as we figuratively hang in from each installment to the next, what's the plan?  Will you "bench test" the engine before you install it?  And what's the history on the motor?   We're cyber channeling good outcomes your way Mike, and very much hoping for your success as you persevere and press on. .   James

I'm glad for everybody that chimes in with ideas, especially when it looks like I'm going off track....or to watch out for this or that....lots of you guys have almost forgotten about stuff I'm trying to still learn...and I love the help!

Yes the plan is to test the motor before I put all the fenders and the nose back on......Boy it's alot easier to work on the motor standing right next to it then bending and hanging over those fenders....

I can install the radiator and use the whole front end of the chassis as my engine test stand.....

As far as the history of the motor, all I can go off of is what I was told.....I called the guy who owned the car before the guy I bought it from.....he said the motor and transmission were rebuilt in and around the San Francisco area, but I don't know when the work happened....It's the old story of somebody starts the restoration, he passes away and then the next guy picks up the pieces and finally has to sell for another reason....on and on like that....

Maybe somebody can chime in as to the quality of these vendors in the San Francisco area....I was told the motor was rebuilt by Joe's Machine Shop in Concord, Ca.... & the trans was rebuilt by Pete's Gear Shop in Hayward Ca....All using Terrill Machine parts.....

Specialize Automotive rebuilt the starter & generator

Moose Motors machined all brake drums, relined shoes and sleeved all wheel cylinders & master cylinder.....Moose also rebuilt the clutch...

Now I got to figure out how to get the clutch back in the bell-housing....

Mike

[DaveZ]

Since you are doing the while u r at it and have the clutch out etc if the pressure plate did not come with that flywheel I would have the balanced. Take the transmission off. You can get to the pilot bearing then. If you decide to take the flywheel off do not take the bell housing off. Flywheel drops out bottom. If you need a TO bearing I have one you can have.
On the top of the engine to the left of the dist there is the vin stamped. That number will give you the year. It definitely 39+ as 38 - did not have the breather pipes.

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

Since you are doing the while u r at it and have the clutch out etc if the pressure plate did not come with that flywheel I would have the balanced. Take the transmission off. You can get to the pilot bearing then. If you decide to take the flywheel off do not take the bell housing off. Flywheel drops out bottom. If you need a TO bearing I have one you can have.
On the top of the engine to the left of the dist there is the vin stamped. That number will give you the year. It definitely 39+ as 38 - did not have the breather pipes.

Thanks Dave for the offer of the TO...but I ordered both the TO & the pilot bearing from Terrill Machine....I talked to Feltz, I think, and he told me if I can't get the pilot bearing out, load it up with grease and put a wood dowel in there and hit it, the grease will push the bearing out....thought I would throw that out there so somebody else might need that trick...

Clutch and pressure plate are brand new...do they still have to be balanced?....Do I have to balance those with the flywheel?....does any tranny shop do that?

I put both motors with transmissions side by side and lifted each one and looked inside to see what I may be missing in the rebuilt motor & tranny and what I have in the old one....

Side note here....a forklift is a must have tool, 2 are better....it's uses are only limited by your imagination....

Rebuilt motor & trans has an empty bell-housing with just the Throw-out bearing fork & flywheel....

The old motor has everything I need still there and it's a nice diagram of how everything goes back together....I asked Feltz about the fork that sits in a yoke that pushes the TO bearing....I asked him if his TO came with that yoke, he said his doesn't and I'll have to press my old one out and press it into the new TO bearing.....Surface rust cleaned up ok on flywheel & pressure plate.....

I pull the tranny out of the new assembly, it wasn't that heavy, maybe 50-60 lbs....

I went to NAPA and pickup a universal clutch alignment tool.....30 bucks...looks like it's going to work...

I took lots of pictures.....

Mike