1950s 1956 dealer installed AC system

[jwwseville60]

A few vintage Caddies have their original dealer installed
Mark IV AC systems which were a dealer add-on option.
Is it advisable from a collector standpoint to keep these original
systems intact since its part of the car's history?
This car still has the BOS for the AC system.
Thanks.

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

I can't say anything about value, but I'd keep it.
I am a purist in many many ways, but add on ac is something I can deal with. I'm in St. Louis and I'd put a system like that on my car in a heartbeat.
It's period correct, and dealer installed so it's a yes for me.

Jeff

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

This might have been a dealer installed unit but it is definitely an aftermarket one. Cadillac itself provided a complete system in a box for dealer installation that had all of the components of the factory installed system
Greg Surfas

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Not to detract from anything but with that York/techumseh compressor that ARA (mfg) system looks very much like the one I installed in my 1966 GMC truck.
Isn't that adv dated 1965?
Greg Surfas

[Big Fins]

Looks like May, 1965 to me. Plus, the car has had the charging system and the radio converted, so, total originality is out the window.

Crank it down to cold and enjoy the cruise.

[Lexi]

Never seen a dealer installed, after market AC in a '56 Cad, just the factory ones. Not saying it did not happen, just have not seen one that was proven to be of that same vintage. The GM Cadillac options list as I recall only showed factory air. So if a dealer did do it contemporaneously, it would almost certainly be after market. Would be interesting to know the history of these AC units, (not "swamp coolers"), and what if any were available at that time. Very interesting. Clay/Lexi

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Don't have it here now (in Kauai), but the parts book for those years show a part number for a dealer installed "factory " set up. Included all parts needed to convert the heating system to a fully factory AC system. I've seen a few of these at shows. The most obvious sign of this work is the tubing vibration eliminators. From the factory they are perfectly straight and those field installed usually have a very noticeable curve to them. A definite no-no for vibration eliminators.
The cost of Factory air was in the neighborhood of$500 and back then that was substantial. The after market systems sold for less than half that.
The cost of the field installed factory systems is in the parts book by
Greg Surfas

[Lexi]

Greg that is fascintating. I was not aware of that. My original 1956 MPL lists tons of AC stuff and the use of the word "kit" is there several times. Was this basically just buying the same factory parts to install by the dealer separately, or was the entire system different? I might have some photos from years ago that showed a similar unit, but not sure of its age. It had a different looking evaporator in the trunk and no outside air scoops. Hope I can find some photos. Clay/Lexi

[J. Gomez]

Clay,

The accessory price list shows the (suggested and dealer NET price) for both the basic and complete A/C kit with the additional prices for each of the model adapter kit (I believe you have this copy), I believe this price list does not include the cost of the kit installation by the dealer.   

This list would be for the factory version of the original A/C unit, no aftermarket units.

There was an aftermarket compressor mounting bracket (MAPCO) to install a York R. or a Tec H.G. compressor not sure what year(s) would this would fall as I only have the installation pages.

Attaching the specific files on my comments above, HTH.   

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

My recollection of the dealer installed factory AC is that the kit included radiator, fan, had generator, fan shroud, all the refrigeration components an a Frigidaire compressor as well as all the necessary pulleys, brackets, bolts and do dads necessary for a complete system.
Greg Surfas

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

My recollection is that not only was dealer installed a/c the same appearance as factory, but the cost was also the same as if factory installed. I found this rather incredible given how much extra work would have been involved. 

[J. Gomez]

@Greg, @Eric,

You bring a real good topic...!

One item in particular is from the 1956 price list I've posted that either kits should/would included all the gadgetry needed for the installation e.i. compressor brackets, pulleys, etc. but

Although there is a footnote indicating one item that would need to be order separately, the carburetor "Fast Idle speed-up control" since this item is different for the Carter or Rochester.

The same generator 30A was used for either A/C or non-A/C, there is/was no shroud and the radiator fan 4-blade was also the same for either A/C or non-A/C. Note: there was an optional 5 blade fan that was offer for those customers with factory A/C cars that raised hell with over-heating.

A second point is from a dealer price break-down a 1956 Sedan DeVille 6239D shows the factory extras A/C, Radio, Heater, Easy-Eye windshield, white wall tires and window lifts = $905.

So adding an A/C to the same model would be $538 per the price list, so not sure if the cost would be the same between the factory and dealer install without doing a complete brake-down cost for each of the factory extras.   

[Lexi]

Thanks Jose. I have seen those papers before. Yes, you are correct in that the idle speed up control units are very different for the Rochester vs the Carters in '56. But wasn't the extra bladed fan 6 vaned (if memory serves)? Would have to pull mine out to be sure as it never made it to the '56 MPL, but was there in the 1957 parts list but with some changes made to it, (and a new part #). You are correct that unless an AC owner complained, every car got the 4 bladed radiator fan. I am inclined also to agree about the fan shroud. I have never seen a '56 Cadillac with what I thought was a contemporaneous one. The few I have seen were all much later and adapted to fit. There may have been a rubber strip that better sealed the hood when closed to the top of the radiator support, but not sure if there in 1956. Do you know if it was there that year Jose? It was sort of a one dimensional poor mans radiator shroud in a way. Just one strip of rubber. Discussions like this used to pop up in the old Mid Century Cadillac site (and CLC Chapter). Lou Commisso the Administrator noted that "factory only" items if MPL listed, could be ordered and installed later by, well anyone including the dealer. So in other words the term "factory only" may not always be true. I agree that this is a fascinating topic and would like to learn more about it. I just don't know much about the AC stuff. Hopefully Gregs chimes in. Clay/Lexi

[J. Gomez]

@Clay,

But wasn't the extra bladed fan 6 vaned (if memory serves)? Would have to pull mine out to be sure as it never made it to the '56 MPL, but was there in the 1957 parts list but with some changes made to it, (and a new part #).

Ooops as always you are correct the fan blade is/was indeed a 6-blade unit part # 146 4740 addressed under the Serviceman Supplemental #3 in August 1956.

Yes, the MPL also shows the 6-blade fan for 1957-1958 A/C cars part # 146 8887 and later supersede with the 7-blade release for the 1959, however none was listed under the MPL for the 1956. 

I am inclined also to agree about the fan shroud. I have never seen a '56 Cadillac with what I thought was a contemporaneous one. The few I have seen were all much later and adapted to fit. There may have been a rubber strip that better sealed the hood when closed to the top of the radiator support, but not sure if there in 1956. Do you know if it was there that year Jose? It was sort of a one dimensional poor mans radiator shroud in a way. Just one strip of rubber.

Same here I've not seen one with a shroud but from memory I believe same as you that someone had adapted/modify one from a later model to fit the 1956.   

Correct the only thing was the strip of rubber staple on the hood to restrict the air flow around the top of the radiator.

Discussions like this used to pop up in the old Mid Century Cadillac site (and CLC Chapter). Lou Commisso the Administrator noted that "factory only" items if MPL listed, could be ordered and installed later by, well anyone including the dealer. So in other words the term "factory only" may not always be true.

Yes I've also recall the same topic we discussed in the old Mid-Century site and it was very-very lengthy with several good views/finds from members.

[Lexi]

Jose, (he is one of the Cadillac Gods), much thanks. So '56s did have that rubber strip. I thought so. I think mine has remnants of the heavy duty staples still there but the rubber is long gone.    Clay/Lexi

[jwwseville60]

This car is a 1956 Hess & Eisenhardt station wagon. So the factory trunk mounted AC was not an option. I doubt that this system would have provided enough cooling for all those extra square feet of space on a really hot day. Lots of glass too. Better than no AC I guess.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

The '60s era aftermarket A/C in a 1960 Coupe deVille I once owned provided far better cooling than an original system. I attributed this to two reasons: The evaporator in the aftermarket system is located forward in the cabin rather than tucked away in the dash. Secondly, the blower in the aftermarket unit delivered greater air volume than a factory HVAC system through the dash outlets.

However, I would also add that blower operation was not nearly as silent as in the factory A/C setup since the blower/motor assembly (like the evaporator) is located well within the cabin without the sound deadening material when located within the dash panel. On a 90+ degree day, the aftermarket system was so powerful, the fan would have to be lowered to keep from freezing you out of the car as ice formed on the outlets.

 

[Cadman-iac]

This car is a 1956 Hess & Eisenhardt station wagon. So the factory trunk mounted AC was not an option. I doubt that this system would have provided enough cooling for all those extra square feet of space on a really hot day. Lots of glass too. Better than no AC I guess.

  I'd love to own this car. Where did they put the evaporator on this, behind the back seat as usual?
 The wood treatment is unusual for a 56 too. I wouldn't think that was done to hide any bodywork as the modifications were all above the belt line, except for whatever tailgate was fabricated.
 Beautiful station wagon. I'm partial to wagons anyway. Had a 56 Chevrolet wagon for years. It was great to travel in as I could put the back seat down and sleep in it.
 I doubt you could do that in this Cadillac wagon unless it didn't have an A/C unit back there.
 I wouldn't not buy it because of that however. Too nice!!!

 Rick

[Cadman-iac]

The '60s era aftermarket A/C in a 1960 Coupe deVille I once owned provided far better cooling than an original system. I attributed this for two reasons: The evaporator in the aftermarket system is located forward in the cabin rather than tucked away in the dash. Secondly, the blower in the aftermarket unit delivered greater air volume than a factory HVAC system through the dash outlets.

However, I would also add that blower operation was not nearly as silent as in the factory A/C setup since the blower/motor assembly (like the evaporator) is located well within the cabin without the sound deadening material when located within the dash panel. On a 90+ degree day, the aftermarket system was so powerful, the fan would have to be lowered to keep from freezing you out of the car as ice formed on the outlets.

 

 I've noticed that too in my old 66 GM truck. I had an underdash unit in it and on a humid day after work I'd fire it up and let it cool down while I cleaned up my tools and myself, and when I came back to it there was condensation on the bottom of the door glass. It had an A6 compressor with some old add-on air unit.
 Incidentally GM used a very similar unit for the rear A/C in the square-body Suburbans. Both of mine have rear air and I usually have to keep them on low while cruising. With both front and rear on it gets COLD!!

 But you're right, the fan design on these is noisy. Twin squirrel cages with no insulation or filters. But very efficient.

 Rick

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

This thread has brought up my favorite gripe. Many people seem to equate 32 degree air blown in your face by a typhoon with good air conditioning. Cadillac has always aimed at "comfort conditioning" where just like commercial AC aims at providing air to the occupied space without undue drafts at a temperature and relative humidity to meet the cooling(or heating) loads. No muss no fuss.

Greg Surfas