Laurie's 1970 Fleetwood Brougham Restoration

[35-709]

I have installed Pertronix ignitions in several cars over the years, the latest was my (now sold) '73 Cadillac Caribou.  All of the installations have been trouble free.  I ran the Pertronix I in all of the cars I converted using the stock coil.  If I do another conversion someday I will probably go with the Pertronix II.  Your '70 will have a resistor wire from the firewall electrical connector (engine side) to the coil, as mentioned this wire must be bypassed as it reduces the voltage to the coil down to 7 +or- volts after the engine is started.  One good way is to tap into the pink 12 gauge ignition switch wire inside the car, leaving disconnected, or cutting off, the resistance wire that goes to the coil now.  That pink wire is the one that plugs into/becomes the resistance wire on engine side of the large plug-in wiring connector and is the ignition "run" wire from the ignition switch.     

[35-709]

"Would the correct 'thingy' size be in the shop manual? Which has arrived along with the body manual and sales brochure."

No, but it might be in the Fisher Body Manual --- at least what it looks like.  When you get the letters determine the size of the stud and look through that Restoration Specialties catalog I linked you to earlier.  Or, take it to the body shop that will be doing your work and ask them what clip they would use to retain the letters.  There are a zillion clips (plus or minus a few hundred) out there of all types and sizes, a good clip for yours shouldn't be hard to find.

Once the letters are assembled to the fender, have your shop shoot some black paint on the clips inside the fender (a rattle can will do fine), or you can do it, to keep them from rusting.

[e.mason]

Brochures are usually a good source for authenticity of model years.

[signart]

For best results, make sure you use their coil with the ignition set up.

[TJ Hopland]

If you do it be sure to take timing readings before you start.   Apparently the installation changes things slightly so it would be nice to know where you started in case you want to get back there.

Follow the instructions especially about the gap and power.   I have read lots of issues where people just figured the instructions were more of a suggestion. 

When the II and III came out they didn't seem as reliable as the original.  They have been out for quite a while now so I assume they got the bugs out. 

For a 70 unless you are concerned about the look you have the option of getting a factory HEI from a later model or an aftermarket unit.   HEI can sometimes have slight clearance issues with the inner AC belt and smog rail.  Aftermarket stuff is smaller diameter like the original so no clearance issues. 

Yet another option is something like a MDS6 box.  Regular price only $230 but on sale still and free shipping.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-6201/media/instructions

These can trigger off the original points so you could wire it up with connectors so you could bypass it if needed for a show or failure.   It still uses the points as the trigger but its only triggering the electronics so there is no arching which is the major wear factor with conventional points.  You also don't have to mess with the resistor in the original circuit,  just like the points the box is just looking at that wire for a signal not an actual electrical load.  The main electrical load comes direct from the battery.   These give you one heck of a hot spark, you will be reminded of that if you ever leave the key on and mess with it, they bite hard.   I have a couple of these on older motors and they really seem to help starting, idle, and 'off the line' acceleration not to mention make points much less of a hassle.

[cadillac ken]

Thanks guys, really appreciate it. The vokes either "1 shot" or "2 shot". 1 shots are for the cars going to the used car dealers, the paint and clear coat are combined. 2 shots are for the nicer cars, paint, then clear coat. At least that's how I understood it...?
Laurie

I'm sure your painter means Single stage paint when he says "1 shot": color and gloss all in one but as pointed out you really don't want to buff that and in the case of metallics and pearls, the they are exposed to the elements without a clear coat over top-- but fine for "quickies" as we call them. 

The "2 shot" is probably meant as the base coat (color) clear coat (top coat) systems by different manufacturers.  And generally regarded as a better quality paint system.

[Jay Friedman]

To 76Eldo,

I agree with your reasons for sticking with points and a condenser.  As you wrote, points will let you know they are ready for replacement without failing completely, in plenty of time to replace them.  Also, it's good to get into your distributor from time to time to lubricate it and check the wiring etc.

Like you I have found NOS Delco points on ebay, and recently bought for my '49 a sealed box of 10, a lifetime supply. 

As for condensers, John Washburn, who writes the Washburn's Wisdom articles in the Self Starter, wrote a while back that you can still get reliable brand new condensers from the Madison Tractor Company.  I bought one, installed it and so far it has been working well after several thousand miles, including a long road trip to the Grand National.

[TJ Hopland]

In the olden days condensers had a value stamped into them just like spark plugs.  There was an OE spec but just like plugs there were also charts showing if you were having issues which direction to adjust the value to 'dial it in' for the current conditions.   Condensers now seem to be a one size MAY fit all sort of thing.  You are lucky if it fits and the wire is correct and that its not bad out of the box. 

They also don't always seem to age well so NOS is still a hit or miss option.  I presume it comes down to original quality and then storage / use conditions.  At one time I knew a guy that had a tester, I think it was a Sun brand that hung on the side of the distributor machine.   I borrowed it and tested everything I had at the time which was a dozen or so between on engines and spares.   I think I had maybe 3 that tested good on that machine vs only 3 that failed using a basic ohm meter test.   Wish I had stayed in contact with the guy, maybe I would have had a chance to buy some of that stuff when he passed. 

[Chuck Swanson]

My cars, at least for now, are still running points and condenser.  As far as the stock/purist part of the equation, if it's a mod the fits under the distributor cap and no one sees it, it's not an issue for me. 

The Petronix has an extra wire BTW, so doesn't look stock for the purists   They also try to sell you an unneeded extra coil.  Been using Breakerless LE https://www.lectriclimited.com/conversions-modifications/  below in all my cars below for 10+ yrs, for all that originally had points, using stock coil.  No extra wires.  Chuck

[John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.]

Folks,

As Jay so nicely said I wrote an article or two on condensers. But if you buy the ones from the tractor guys they are NEW not old stock. The old stock are always suspect.

The other issue is about value in MFD. Cadillac used the same damned condenser from 1937 up till they converted to electronic ignitions (in most cases).

The article covers a lot of issues so take a gander.

The Johnny

[cadillacmike68]

Eric, that was an ad.

The brochures for 1970 did a poor job of showing the rear, especially Fleetwoods. But yes they are both usually good sources.

[cadillacmike68]

Anyone stuffing this gizmo under their distributor? Any reason to/not to?
Laurie?

Yes, you want to be "authentic" and am willing to put this in the car??   

All kidding aside, a properly set P&C ignition will start your car in about 1/10 of a second. That's about how long it takes to start mine, unless its been sitting for several days.

[BJM]

Thank you for that explanation. It helps me understand the BC/CC

[Bobby B]

I'm sure your painter means Single stage paint when he says "1 shot": color and gloss all in one but as pointed out you really don't want to buff that and in the case of metallics and pearls, the they are exposed to the elements without a clear coat over top-- but fine for "quickies" as we call them. 

The "2 shot" is probably meant as the base coat (color) clear coat (top coat) systems by different manufacturers.  And generally regarded as a better quality paint system.

Have 2 cars that were painted in Centari over 25 years ago and still look great. Lots of variables like anything else. As we all know, the Prep is more important than the actual top coat. How about Imron Boys? You could throw a rock at it and it wouldn't chip .....
                                                                                                           Bobby

[Bobby B]

Pertonix installed '36 Pierce-Arrow, '58 Cad, 47 Cad, 15 years ago.  Cars never ran better, and continue to run beautifully.

Agreed.....
           Bobby

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

AHHH, The NEVER ending pertronix debate... round 8 or is it round 9
Don't feed the troll{s}
Bob

[chrisntam]

I opted to get a replacement distributor from MTS, it electronic.  I think it's an MSD knockoff, not real sure.  Had to use a different coil, but the coil fits in the stock location.  I like the look of the red cap.  I'm not a purist, so it's not a big issue for me.  Cost for the dizzy was about $350 and about $50 for the coil IIRC (in '14).

Now when it craps out, won't have a clue as to what part failed and what to replace...

[chrisntam]

That's a nice looking rear end.

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

I have a brochure, like Mike said if the pic was 'clear' I wouldn't have asked.
I have a nice rear end too or so I've been told. 2-1 the mods send me to the wood shed for
that comment too. 

Thanks guys! Laurie!

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Wow guys, thanks for all the wisdom. I have a dear friend who owns 33 old cars, all hotrods, he swears by that Petronix thing and said to look into it for The Ark. After reading all the posts and my eyes glazing over I'll stick with authentic PC.  But I loved the info. I'm about to drop over a grand at Summit tomorrow, that includes the tires, and I ordered the battery from BatteryMallCentral. The firing system is something I can actually do, used to do it myself when I was kid. All the parts will be AC Delco from Summit. They have a 'kit' now with the condensor and points together, good thing? Cap, rotor, wires, plugs all AC Delco. I'll be flushing (not back flushing, old school) out the radiator, it looks fine, but I have no mntx records on this car at all. Last owner said "well if it needed something, I did it", swell. I have a military type ' book' on my daily driver (dates/mileage/repair type/shop that did the work, etc), The Ark will have the same. When I flush it (by the book) my dad (RIP) always said to change the thermostat. Here I'm getting a Stant, he swore by them. Any reason not to use a stant? I'm changing the rad cap too, just because I can. Again I'd love to use a Stant but AC Delco so it looks more 'correct'. Is there any reason to use "Be Cool" at 3 times the price of regular green Prestone? Scott will do the oil change and tranny fluid change, just dropping the pans, new gaskets, filters, Lucas Hot Rod Oil and Dexron 6. I change out power steering fluid old school with a turkey baster and a lot of patience. Is there a better power steering fluid out there? My Acadia uses D6! Thanks for your patience with all the chick questions, much appreciated!
Laurie!