Any years Ethanol free fuel

[Cadman-iac]

  Question, does ethanol free fuel last any longer than fuel with ethanol?

 Can you leave it in a vehicle over a long period without adding something like Stabil?

 I just started using it in one of my trucks and it seems to run better and have more power, and I think it's getting better mileage, but I'll verify that once I fill up again.

 I'm just wondering if there's any advantage to using ethanol-free fuel other than what I've noticed here.

 Thanks for any advice. Rick

[Big Fins]

Yes and Yes. I wouldn't leave it to just sit for more than 6 months though. It also won't separate like E laced fuel will. The Ethanol sinks to the bottom over time being undisturbed.

Congrats on being able to find it where you are. Here in Florida, it's all over due to the large marine industry.

[James Landi]

DATA POINT: Took many years for the Maine marine gas distributors to sell non-ethanol exclusively. After a six month seasonal lay up,  Ethanol gas would sometimes draw in moisture,  evaporate, "separate," and leave  brown crud in carburetors causing serious issues if the engine in question couldn't pull the crud through idle passages. Running the engine without fuel supply before lay up really helped.  But small outboards using plastic fuel tanks that were partly filled with ethanol gas before lay up could accumulate several ounces of water at the bottom of the tank...

[dn010]

I left ethanol free in my Delorean from February-October and it ended up smelling like varnish when I was ready to drive, so I pumped it all out and pumped new in. It may have been fine but I didn't want to chance it. I should have used Stabil but a simple engine task ultimately turned into a full rebuild.

Fuel with ethanol seemed to only last a week or two, longer and it would turn into a gummy substance. It also destroyed most of the rubber in the fuel system including fuel pressure regulators - ethanol free does not cause havoc like that.

I keep ethanol free fuel in both my DeLorean and the Cadillac. Unless you have updated rubber parts and daily drive your car, I suggest anyone else to do the same if they can find it.

[TJ Hopland]

The performance should not be that different assuming they were both the proper octane rating for the application unless it was due to the ethanol fuel absorbing moisture.  Yes in theory the ethanol blend contains less energy than if it was pure gas but its a pretty small percentage and in most cases the engines we are running especially here are somewhat crude when it comes to fuel mixtures and have no way to compensate for different fuels like EFI typically do.

I don't currently own anything that requires the higher octane.  Small engines like lawn equipment get the premium non ethanol year round.  Usage of those tends to be erratic because it depends on things like weather so sometimes a tank of gas can last for several months.  Also seems to help with vapor lock on hot restarts on the hot days when you are working them hard.  With these the overall volume of fuel used is so small the higher cost isn't really a factor, the time it takes to clean one carb cost more in time than the extra cost. 

Larger engines that also get occasional use also get it, again because I don't always know if I'm gonna use it all.  Cars if I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be able to burn it all up within a few weeks I will use the cheaper ethanol stuff just to save a few bucks but if I know they are gonna or could end up sitting I will go for the non ethanol stuff and for sure when its the end of the season I will try and do the 2nd to last tank non ethanol as well as the full tank its going to sit with.

For example much of this summer in my area 'regular' was in the low $3 range.  Ethanol premium was 0.50-0.75 more which was also where diesel seemed to be.  The non ethanol was generally in the low $4's so at least $1 more.  Lawnmower that maybe uses 2 gallons a month that's nuthn but part of the summer I was doing maybe 10 gallons a week in the 73 so $40 per month more.  Is that a lot in the grand scheme of things especially these days?  No not really but that is a decent meal out of one so why spend it on gas if you can buy the gas that still gets to to the steak house and leaves you money to buy the steak? 

If your stuff is reasonably maintained and you are using it the ethanol should not really be a problem.  Part of that maintenance is replacing things like hoses.  Any quality brand name hose (gates, dayco) made in the last 20 or so years is going to tolerate the ethanol blends.  If your hoses are over 20 years old you are on borrowed time no matter what fuels you run. Yes back in the 90's you would run into hoses that would turn to goo in one season and even today you still run into 'imported' equipment or parts that has plastic or rubber that turns to goo but I suspect that that stuff is just that low of quality it would have happened no matter what you ran in it.  Its super common in small engine stuff where you buy a service kit or replacement carb and the hoses they come with are junk but when you are buying a complete carb that comes with hoses and filters for $20 and the OE made in USA gasket kit cost $50 what were you really expecting?

Now if you are not burning it up in a few weeks(ish)... well that's different.   The ambient environment becomes a critical factor.  If you are in a climate controlled garage or at least something that is fairly stable temp wise you may not really have issues.  If you have that climate controlled garage and share it with your daily driver so the door and climate is at least briefly changing all the time you may have more issues.  If you are in a poorly insulated garage that gets larger daily temp swings that may be made worse by the door opening to get the daily in you may have a problem.  If you are outside with no shade is gonna be worse than if you have shade to slow down the swings.  Rainy or coastal area with higher humidity?  Thats gonna be worse.  All these factors are gonna effect regular gas too but not to the same degree it seems to effect the ethanol.

The ethanol likes to absorb moisture and besides water being a crappy fuel it starts separating and chemically changes things which then can react with different materials and additives like say aluminum that most carbs are made of.  And as those reactions start that can create yet new chemical reactions so you can get all sorts of science experiments going on in different areas of your fuel system.  If you are moving/burning the fuel it doesn't have time to absorb that much moisture and what it does absorb still burns reasonably well and doesn't have time to sit and react with other things.  The fuel flowing will tend to flush away any corrosion that tries to start.  Alcohols tend to be good solvents so they can and actually do do some cleaning. That was actually a problem in the early days,                  

My area has been messing with ethanol blends for over 30 years now so I have seen and been through it all. We were among the first states to get it mandated and I believe we were also among the first to get an exception giving sellers the option to offer a premium octane/grade without it. By the time a majority of other states started with their mandates there were already several that had the exception option so many of them started out with that option from the start.  Also note that there are several states that don't have any requirement to label the pumps as to what blend you may or may not be getting so just because where you buy gas doesn't say anything on the pump doesn't mean you are not getting it so if you are having issues maybe dig a little deeper and see if you are in a place that doesn't have to label it.  

[Cadillac Jack 82]

Sadly AZ only has ethanol fuels at the 91 min Octane rating.  I typically use GUNK lead additive and the Lucas street octane booster in both the 59 Cad and 66 Olds with great results.  They are so smooth and quiet its amazing.  If those chemicals are not used they get a little cranky. 

[TJ Hopland]

I think its pretty rare to have a 'regular' 87/88 octane grade of non ethanol available. If anyone lives in such a place let us know, I am curious.  I know in my state and I suspect others the premium grade was part of the compromise.  Since there really isn't any practical way to enforce the 'rule' of its only to be used in classic, recreational, and small equipment the way 'they' keep people from using it in their daily drivers is simply the cost being a premium option. 

I'm not sure if its a state law/rule but at least with the brand I usually get mine from and the alternate brand they both have a label on the pump that has that classic recreational message on it which I believe is also the sticker that states its non ethanol.  I'm not a huge marina guy, my boat is trailered everywhere so I don't need to buy from the docks but what I have seen there other than higher prices is the same as regular outlets, regular and premium with no ethanol.  I do recall that the marinas were the last holdouts besides a few rural co-ops that had 'leaded' gas.  I think they were on a sliding scale where every year the amount was reduced to the point there was no point so everyone involved gave up. 

I do wonder if it really cost the gas station that much more than the other options or if maybe its got a higher markup because they think and do get it.  I'm in a pretty good sized metro area and its very common to have at least 2 if not 3 or even 4 gas stations on the same block so they all have to compete on prices.   I don't know of any cases like that where more than one offers the non ethanol.  If you want regular they are all the same price but if you want non ethanol you either pay the asking price or possibly drive several to many miles to the next station that offers it. 

I guess thats' where the apps like gas buddy come in you can find out if its worth the drive for the lower cost product but I don't think those usually note if its non ethanol so you have to go to a site like pure gas or just know which ones offer it then decide.  

[Big Fins]

Base octane of regular gasoline is 84. Add the 10% Ethanol and that raises the rating to 87. Base premium is 90 octane. Add the 10% Ethanol and it becomes 93. There are some non-ethanol blends that are 89 in which a small percentage of regular is blended with the premium to get the 89 octane. The Ethanol is blended into the base stock at the tanker loading facility and a 10% rate.

If all you have is fuel that is laced and need pure gas for a small engine, just take any amount and add water to it and shake it. The water will pull the Ethanol out of the gasoline and both will sink to the bottom of the container. Then just pour off the pure gasoline. You will need premium gasoline to start with for this, otherwise you will end up with 84 octane regular and that may be too low for anything to properly run on it.

[Moody]

Use this link to find clean gas.

https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=TX

Plug in your state and it should show you the vendors in your area. I have several here in Texas.

[LaSalle5019]

I don't like leaving ethanol fuel in my vintage vehicles or equipment if not being used for several months so I fill up with "recreational" gasoline which is typically 91 octane (higher than what I need) but ethanol free and pretty common to find in Michigan. For any cars or equipment that I know may sit for long periods I use AvGas. At 100 octane, it is a bit high for most of my engines but the stuff doesn't get stale and doesn't varnish. I've never been impressed with StaBil - it might be okay for 6 months to a year. AvGas....5, 6, 7 years....not a problem.

[Jay Friedman]

Use this link to find clean gas.

https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=TX

Plug in your state and it should show you the vendors in your area. I have several here in Texas.

I only use ethanol free gas in my '49 Cadillac.  On long trips, such as to Grand Nationals, I use the
www.pure-gas.org map feature to identify gas stations along the route selling ethanol free gas.  It varies quite a bit between states.  Some states have many such gas stations, while others have very few. 

[Cadman-iac]

Yes and Yes. I wouldn't leave it to just sit for more than 6 months though. It also won't separate like E laced fuel will. The Ethanol sinks to the bottom over time being undisturbed.

Congrats on being able to find it where you are. Here in Florida, it's all over due to the large marine industry.

 Supposedly it's been available for a while here, but I've only recently been able to find a station that has it. Now there's several Circle K's that are selling it, and a new one is getting ready to open that's on my way into town, which will be very convenient.
 Thanks for your response. Rick

[Cadman-iac]

DATA POINT: Took many years for the Maine marine gas distributors to sell non-ethanol exclusively. After a six month seasonal lay up,  Ethanol gas would sometimes draw in moisture,  evaporate, "separate," and leave  brown crud in carburetors causing serious issues if the engine in question couldn't pull the crud through idle passages. Running the engine without fuel supply before lay up really helped.  But small outboards using plastic fuel tanks that were partly filled with ethanol gas before lay up could accumulate several ounces of water at the bottom of the tank...

 Yeah, I've had to rebuild a few carburetors thanks to the ethanol crap. Fortunately they were just small engine carbs, but one I had to replace because it was so bad.
 Thanks for your input James, much appreciated. Rick

[Cadman-iac]

I left ethanol free in my Delorean from February-October and it ended up smelling like varnish when I was ready to drive, so I pumped it all out and pumped new in. It may have been fine but I didn't want to chance it. I should have used Stabil but a simple engine task ultimately turned into a full rebuild.

Fuel with ethanol seemed to only last a week or two, longer and it would turn into a gummy substance. It also destroyed most of the rubber in the fuel system including fuel pressure regulators - ethanol free does not cause havoc like that.

I keep ethanol free fuel in both my DeLorean and the Cadillac. Unless you have updated rubber parts and daily drive your car, I suggest anyone else to do the same if they can find it.

Dan, are you up north in the cold?
I've been able to keep the regular ethanol fuel with Stabil for about a year, maybe a year and a half if I used enough Stabil, but I'm down here on the Mexican border where we seldom see snow. But I've screwed up and forgot to write down when I put fuel in some of these vehicles, and I almost ruined a new  engine in my 64 truck. After starting it I noticed it had a knock, and after some detective work with a borescope I found a couple of cylinders with fuel staining, probably from the varnish, as it's carbureted, and the heat was causing fuel to be pushed from the tank and it percolated out of the carb and into the
engine, and I hadnt noticed it for months. After running it for several hours and getting it hot, the staining was worn or burned off and the knock was gone.
Strangest thing I've ever run across.
But I need to flush the whole system and then use the ethanol-free stuff from now on.
I just wanted to know if it's worth the effort and expense, or if I should invest in Stabil stock.
Thanks for chiming in, I appreciate your input. Rick

[Cadman-iac]

TJ,
 I'm only basing my statement on my butt-dyno, as I don't have a real one to test with. I think it's getting better mileage, but I'll know more once I fuel up again.
 This particular vehicle is a 90 Suburban with throttle body injection, so there's no need to adjust anything on my part.
 On my 88 Suburban, I'm in the middle of converting it to a carburetor and I'm not sure I want to run ethanol through it. I spent a few weeks tearing down over 50 Quadrajets and boxing everything into those compartmentalized containers, and another week building one for this truck. I don't want ethanol messing it up. Both of them use a barrel for a fuel tank, 40 gallons each, and since I don't drive as much as I used to, the fuel sits in them for a while.
  Thanks for your input. Rick

[Cadman-iac]

Sadly AZ only has ethanol fuels at the 91 min Octane rating.  I typically use GUNK lead additive and the Lucas street octane booster in both the 59 Cad and 66 Olds with great results.  They are so smooth and quiet its amazing.  If those chemicals are not used they get a little cranky. 

 Hi Tim,
  I don't remember what the octane rating was when I got it, it's been a few weeks now, but I did notice that it was higher than the regular, and cost more than the premium.
 Once I get the 56 going, I'll use ethanol-free in it. The 472 will have a 9.3:1 compression ratio if I remember correctly. I had that machine work done over 30 years ago, so not sure now, but I know it's not the original 10.5:1 it started with.
 I appreciate your advice, thanks. Rick

[Cadman-iac]

If all you have is fuel that is laced and need pure gas for a small engine, just take any amount and add water to it and shake it. The water will pull the Ethanol out of the gasoline and both will sink to the bottom of the container. Then just pour off the pure gasoline. You will need premium gasoline to start with for this, otherwise you will end up with 84 octane regular and that may be too low for anything to properly run on it.

 That's really interesting, I'll have to try that out on a quart one time and see if I can get a mower to run on it. Thanks.
  Rick

[Cadman-iac]

I only use ethanol free gas in my '49 Cadillac.  On long trips, such as to Grand Nationals, I use the
www.pure-gas.org map feature to identify gas stations along the route selling ethanol free gas.  It varies quite a bit between states.  Some states have many such gas stations, while others have very few.

 I put the link into my notes for future reference. It does list the two Circle K's in my area that I know have it now.
  Thanks, Rick

[Big Fins]

Then you can check Gas Buddy.com  to see which station has the cheaper price.

Note: First thing in the morning and at lunch time, it's impossible to get near those ethanol-free pumps. The landscapers have them locked down tight filling up their equipment. Then they have to get ice, drinks, breakfast burritos and whatever. They don't hurry either.

Early Sunday morning is the best time.

[Cadillac Jack 82]

Hi Tim,
  I don't remember what the octane rating was when I got it, it's been a few weeks now, but I did notice that it was higher than the regular, and cost more than the premium.
 Once I get the 56 going, I'll use ethanol-free in it. The 472 will have a 9.3:1 compression ratio if I remember correctly. I had that machine work done over 30 years ago, so not sure now, but I know it's not the original 10.5:1 it started with.
 I appreciate your advice, thanks. Rick

Are you in Maricopa?  I know theres a few places that sell race fuel, but everything around here is ethanol based.